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Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 04:18
Posted on Tue, Jul. 19, 2005

Senators introduce `work and return' immigration measure

BY DENA BUNIS

The Orange County Register

WASHINGTON - (KRT) - Two powerful Republican senators Tuesday offered their solution to the nation's immigration system, a measure that would require the estimated 10 million undocumented residents of the United States to go back to their home countries and apply for permission to come back to work here.

"This is a work and return program," said Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., who co-authored the bill with Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, chairman of the immigration subcommittee. Both those who participate in a new temporary guest worker program and those who are already here illegally "will have to return, every one of them, to their country of origin."

Their take on this issue sets the stage for a contentious debate in the Senate over the next 12 months.

Of the two legislative chambers, the Senate has the best chance of coming to agreement on an immigration bill. Most Democrats prefer a more relaxed approach to immigration reform. But even within the Republican majority, lawmakers will have to walk a fine line between those who oppose any benefits for illegal immigrants and those who are more willing to allow some undocumented workers already here to attain legal status.

Anything that would allow the millions who came illegally or overstayed their visas would amount to an amnesty, Cornyn said. "And that is not political saleable in the United States Congress and the president says he opposes it."

Cornyn said his bill closely mirrors the desire of President Bush to match willing workers and willing employers but to have temporary workers return home when their work is done.

The proposal will be set against a bipartisan measure authored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.

Both deal with the need for better enforcement to make sure that employers hire only legal workers. Both have temporary guest worker programs in an effort to deal with the country's labor needs. And both have a solution to the millions of illegal immigrants living and working here.

But the details are vastly different and the coming weeks will show whether the Judiciary Committee can get behind one measure or the Senate will be asked to vote on competing solutions.

"It's long, long, long, long stretch" to reconcile these two proposals, Kennedy said Tuesday. He said the rival bill contemplates "the mass deportation of illegal immigrant persons." That, he said, "is not a realistic solution and won't solve the security and economic problems we face."

McCain sees real differences between the two bills and he wasn't sure the Judiciary Committee would be able to settle on one measure.

For Jose and Carmen Montoya of Orange, Calif., who have lived here illegally since 1979, Cornyn's plan sounds like a risk they are not willing to take.

"Sounds more like a type of voluntary repatriation," said Jose Montoya, 55. "I would do it if before leaving they'd give me a document saying that I will return in a certain period of time. I know living here with my status is bad, but it would be worse if I go to Mexico with the uncertainty of maybe never having the chance to come back again."

To James Gilchrist of Aliso Viejo, Calif., founder of the Minuteman project, the plans sounds good on paper, but he's skeptical that the government will follow through on the enforcement provisions.

"I give them an A for effort but still an F for credibility," said Gilchrist, who said he will keep up his efforts to organize civilian patrols of the borders because he doesn't see the government honoring a promise made years ago to add 10,000 border patrol agents.

The new bill - the text of which was not available on Tuesday - raises more questions than it answers for business, said John Gay, head of the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition. Gay's group has issued qualified support for the McCain-Kennedy bill.

Gay said his group has always wanted to give employers the option to keep needed workers. "A lot of these jobs are high turnover jobs but that doesn't mean you like to see mandated turnover," Gay said. Undocumented workers are most prevalent in agriculture and the service industry, such as hotels and restaurants.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said she cannot support the Cornyn-Kyl measure. She plans to offer her own proposal she said, "to legalize up to 600,000 immigrants and their families who have been in the country for at least three years working in agriculture and agree to work in agriculture for another five years."

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, who is part of a group of House lawmakers who would likely oppose any guest worker program, said he doesn't believe business needs to import foreign workers.

"Why don't we have Americans hired at those jobs at higher wages?" asked Rohrabacher, R-Calif. "I totally reject the idea that there aren't Americans to do those jobs."

---

BILL AT A GLANCE

_Asks illegal immigrants to come forward, return to home country and apply for guest worker or permanent legal status from there.

_Adds 10,000 federal agents over five years to police workplace to curb illegal hiring and 1,000 to combat document fraud.

_Increases penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

_Spends $2.5 billion over five years for border technology, including unmanned aerial vehicles.

_Creates new guest worker program in which foreign nationals work two years and return to their home country for a year. No guaranteed path to legalization.

_Employers required to use computerized system to verify legal status of workers.

_Adds 10,000 detention beds to eliminate release of illegal immigrants into the United States.

_Would issue all Americans new machine-readable, tamper-resistant Social Security cards

If they actually enforce this it could be very good.

Papewaio
07-21-2005, 04:22
So spend 2.5 billion of taxpayers money on drones and the taxpayer can buy vegetables at double the price now!

Marshal Murat
07-21-2005, 04:33
Its alot better than having to learn more languages than needed.
It reduces the need for,
firemen
policemen
emergency response
and other public workers to be bilingual

it would also allow myself to have a snazzy new SSC. ~:cheers:

I doubt it will affect the vegetable price.

Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 04:34
So spend 2.5 billion of taxpayers money on drones and the taxpayer can buy vegetables at double the price now!
No as a guest worker program is part of the package.

ICantSpellDawg
07-21-2005, 05:58
at first glance it seems like a novel approach

bmolsson
07-21-2005, 06:13
Why not give back Texas to Mexico ? All the illegal immigrants would then be at home immediately...... ~;)

Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 06:15
Why not just grant Mexico statehood?

bmolsson
07-21-2005, 06:23
Why not just grant Mexico statehood?

Very good comeback... :bow: Actually it also makes sense.... ~:cheers:

Lemur
07-21-2005, 06:32
Why not just grant Mexico statehood?
We had that option in the 1800s. If I recall correctly, we had the Marines in the middle of Mexico City, and there was more than a little discussion about annexing the whole peninsula.

Why on earth didn't we?

Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 06:35
Why on earth didn't we?

Do you want to take all those poor people as citizens? Can you imagine how much it would cost us in welfare and the like ?

What I want to know is why they didnt make Long Island a state with Brooklyn as its capital. ~;)

Lemur
07-21-2005, 06:40
Well, if we took them in in the mid-1800s, they'd all be fat happy Americans by now. Imagine five or six extra states that all resemble Floida -- oooh, the possibilities.

If Long Island were made a state, I dunno, you'd have Billy Joel made a Senator or something. Frightening. People take their Billy really seriously out here. I learned that the hard way.

Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 06:42
If Long Island were made a state, I dunno, you'd have Billy Joel made a Senator or something. Frightening. People take their Billy really seriously out here. I learned that the hard way.

You do know that this was once proposed and we would have been one of the larger states as far as population goes.

bmolsson
07-21-2005, 12:02
Do you want to take all those poor people as citizens? Can you imagine how much it would cost us in welfare and the like ?


Imagine the labor that could be used for the miltary. Invading Iraq, Iran and Syria at the SAME time...... ~;)

BDC
07-21-2005, 12:16
Sending people back, then bringing them here again sounds like a logistical nightmare, expensive, and like no one is actually going to go along with it.

"Hey, do you want to pay to go home, then come back here again, and still get none of the benefits of being a citizen, or carry on as you are at the moment?"

Gawain of Orkeny
07-21-2005, 13:36
Sending people back, then bringing them here again sounds like a logistical nightmare, expensive, and like no one is actually going to go along with it.

"Hey, do you want to pay to go home, then come back here again, and still get none of the benefits of being a citizen, or carry on as you are at the moment?"

Its all covered in the bill. We arent paying for them to return to Mexico and if they dont go back and we catch them they will be deported and not allowed to return. The bill also contains measures that would harshly punish people who employ these workers.

scooter_the_shooter
07-21-2005, 16:50
edit wrong link

Ronin
07-21-2005, 17:21
Its all covered in the bill. We arent paying for them to return to Mexico and if they dont go back and we catch them they will be deported and not allowed to return. The bill also contains measures that would harshly punish people who employ these workers.

you would not allow then to return? ~D

did you allow most of them to enter the first time?...i don´t think they´re going to ask permission to come back in. ~;)




Asks illegal immigrants to come forward, return to home country and apply for guest worker or permanent legal status from there.

the bill goes to hell right here...they´re expecting these people to come forward voluntarily?.....when that happens send me a popsicle from hell....i´d like to know what flavours they have down there.

Gawain of Orkeny
07-22-2005, 01:10
you would not allow then to return?

did you allow most of them to enter the first time?...i don´t think they´re going to ask permission to come back in.


Again there talking about actually enforcing the immigration laws and tightening the border. If you were told go back and ask permission to return and we will grant it or stay and if we catch you you will never be allowed back what would you choose?


the bill goes to hell right here...they´re expecting these people to come forward voluntarily?.....when that happens send me a popsicle from hell....i´d like to know what flavours they have down there.

Again I suggest you read th ewhole bill when it becomes available . It addresses all these issues. I sad the samething as you until I saw the two senators speaking about it. Their talking tuff at least.

el_slapper
07-22-2005, 13:43
Sounds like a good idea. But beware. It's been tried in France - and they finally stayed. They stayed as nothing was ready for them to stay. And much of France's today problems take their root in that failure.

Those who come just want to have some money & come back. But once they've experimented the comfort of living in rich countries where corruption is scarce, they tend to be VERY creative in finding ways to stay. Legal or illegal.

Ah, and remember : 1620 settlers of the mayflower were illegal immigrants stealing parts of the amerindian soil.....

Kaiser of Arabia
07-22-2005, 13:56
Do you want to take all those poor people as citizens? Can you imagine how much it would cost us in welfare and the like ?


That was the funniest thing I've seen all day. kudos!


the bill goes to hell right here...they´re expecting these people to come forward voluntarily?.....when that happens send me a popsicle from hell....i´d like to know what flavours they have down there.
Blueberry, Strawberry, Lemon, Lime, and Manflesh.

rasoforos
07-22-2005, 14:20
How about getting some developed countries and some multinationals to 1) invest in less developed countries ( easy ) 2) And demand proper work conditions and labour law as well as proper wages ( the very tough one since it requires moral governments and multinationals ). This way those people will not have to cross the borders.

Lets have some sympathy guys. All they want is a better life and many times not even for them...many do the jobs we wouldnt even consider doing just to be able to give their kids a good life in the future. We or our ancestors have always been doing that thing, ever since the first humans left Africa...

Having said all that this thread kinda scares me since I am a foreigner living and working ( from September ) somewhere outside of my native country. Being a legal immigrant sure feels nice ~:)