View Full Version : New unit at the com: Roman Comitatenes !!
Check out the new unit by advancing past the monk.
:charge:
It won't let advance past the monk.
EDIT; I monkeyed around a bit and got to them. Late legionaries wooo!
Coldfish
07-22-2005, 17:05
i don`t see any new unit yet....just same that old catholic priest
Coldfish - Press the arrow button at the bottom with advance written on it and it will then show the new unit.
:charge:
Coldfish
07-22-2005, 17:19
yes,yes...i`ved tryied that....still no new unit
yes,yes...i`ved tryied that....still no new unit
Try refreshing.
He is carrying the javelins with a 30 degree angle separating them when in actuality there would only be a 20 degree angle!
A-historical! Death to CA! I will not buy this.
EDIT: On a less asinine note... the unit looks purty :)
The_Doctor
07-22-2005, 17:37
I cannot see it, I cannot find the arrows.
Mikeus Caesar
07-22-2005, 17:40
Gr, the Forward/Backward arrows for it are buggered. All i can view is that silly priest man. Can someone post a direct link to it, or post the screenshot and description here please?
The Stranger
07-22-2005, 17:40
can sumone post the link
Just click refresh.
That did it for me. :book:
Hehe..all this trouble. There are no direct link as it is Macromedia Flashplayer.
Do you got the latest version of it?
It took some time load it for me, try use some good ol` patience.
Edit:
can sumone post the link
http://www.totalwar.com/community/rtwbi.htm (http://)
The Stranger
07-22-2005, 17:47
wich monk....do you mean rometotalwar.com
Coldfish
07-22-2005, 18:04
www.rometotalwar.com then click 3d unit button.....i used....www.totalwar.com -> BI -> 3d unit profile and doesn`t worked...so from now....www.rometotalwar.com is the right one :bow:
It seems that comitatenes have rtw princeps alike armour ~:) and i dislike the shield
The_Doctor
07-22-2005, 18:11
I can see the unit, but I cannot read the info.
Coldfish
07-22-2005, 18:14
i cant wait until they get to the visigoths.....i really want to see their units...first faction that i will play will be the Visigoths!! :bow:
Mongoose
07-22-2005, 19:44
He is carrying the javelins with a 30 degree angle separating them when in actuality there would only be a 20 degree angle!
I have no priblem with this unit as it is semi-historical. :bow:
Stop trying to dug up old internet drama. :dizzy2:
No one said your name sir. In fact I referred to myself as asinine, consider it a bit of fun. No insult intended.
antisocialmunky
07-22-2005, 21:35
Do they HAVE to make the 3D Unit window 768 tall?
King of Atlantis
07-22-2005, 22:22
Though they look historical, they look like garbage. Eb's units just look so much nicer.
Mongoose
07-23-2005, 03:15
No one said your name sir. In fact I referred to myself as asinine, consider it a bit of fun. No insult intended.
~:cheers:
In that case, i think they should give a moral bonus to nearby units and regenerate after every battle ~D
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 03:19
Did anybody else find the description unusual. Im not complaing, but it didnt seem to fit at all with their usual style. They even went into how the name turned into the french word count.
Mongoose
07-23-2005, 03:33
It's a good thing IMO. Normaly they have something along the lines of:
These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.
~D
screwtype
07-23-2005, 04:21
The sword is still much too short! It's not much bigger than a carving knife. CA said they were going to fix this in the XPack, what happened?
Mongoose
07-23-2005, 04:27
Maybe there have a kitchen knife, to reflect the bonus they get against the new flaming pig unit.... :wink:
Though they look historical, they look like garbage. Eb's units just look so much nicer.
Ah geeeez, now I have a better understanding why headhurlers are in the game. Heck actually it makes complete sense to me now.
Anyways, that guys wearing trousers........ how barbaric. ~D
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 07:29
Ah geeeez, now I have a better understanding why headhurlers are in the game. Heck actually it makes complete sense to me now.
what you dont think Eb's units look 100 times better.
Silver Rusher
07-23-2005, 07:38
Jesus Christ, King of Atlanta. Why can't you ever have an open mind? CA makes a decent, accurate unit and you just sit in the corner saying that nothing CA can make will ever be accurate. And why do you people have to bring EB into every topic about BI?
Is it just me, or this unit looks like heavy peltast reskin.
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 07:52
Jesus Christ, King of Atlanta. Why can't you ever have an open mind? CA makes a decent, accurate unit and you just sit in the corner saying that nothing CA can make will ever be accurate. And why do you people have to bring EB into every topic about BI?
My mind is very open,
I was very pleased that this unit looks accurate, and found the description unusaually informative. All of that i said and got alot more hopeful that BI might be accurate.
The looks on the other habd are terrible. And not only compared to EB. Almost any mod makes skins/models that look much nicer than that of CA. Are you dening this? If so you seem pretty closed minded.
Why bring up EB? Cause it is comparable. They did the same time period, but there units look so much nicer. Blue lotus makes the CA units look even worse, but i didnt think it would be fair to judge to differnt eras.
Just to make things clear, I said this unit looks accurate, though i couldnt be sure as i didnt research it. It certainly looks real and I have full belief that it is. So, i really dont see what your mad at me about. Cause i said EB's units are better. That is my opinion and im sure its most peoples.
oh, and no im not the king of atlanta.
The Blind King of Bohemia
07-23-2005, 08:53
I can't really see whats wrong with the unit to be honest
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 08:57
it just doesnt look that good in my opinion. I guess im just to used to the mods using more detail....
Why bring up EB? Cause it is comparable. They did the same time period, but there units look so much nicer.
Erm, they are NOT comparable. You can compare EB with RTW but not with BI as the time has moved several hundred years forward. Moreover you haven`t seen EB`s roman units yet so you`re completely off-track. And IMHO the roman units generally looks boring. That said mod units look better, but not all of them.
If you want cool units, wait for the Sassanids or Franks.
The Stranger
07-23-2005, 12:12
yeugh, that skins stinks. if they were elite, why do they wear low quality equipment.
Gone are the days when Rome was great...
P.S.
Really, a heavy peltast reskin.
antisocialmunky
07-23-2005, 16:45
The worse the skin, the more joy it will be to see Huscarles hack through them. :bow:
it would still be a heavy peltast...
hehe...
Steppe Merc
07-23-2005, 18:00
I wish they would get rid of faction colors...
Orda Khan
07-23-2005, 20:08
yeugh, that skins stinks. if they were elite, why do they wear low quality equipment.
What is so awful about it? As for equipment, this is the equipment that the Roman army was using at this particular time. In fact quite Germanic, but there again so were many of Rome's generals
........Orda
BobTheTerrible
07-23-2005, 21:15
it just doesnt look that good in my opinion. I guess im just to used to the mods using more detail....
Is everything CA does now evil? CA still has the minimum system requirements to conform to, so they cannot model/texture to absolute perfection, as that could cause graphic slowdowns and force them to raise minimum requirements. Honestly I don't see what's so bad about it. Don't accuse me of being a fanboy for liking the unit please, I'm all for historical accuracy and such, but the level that some members here have taken it seems a little extreme, if I may say so.
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 21:30
What the hell guys. :furious3:
No Ca isnt evil. I obviously like their games as i am a member here.
Im not complaining about accuarcy it looks very accurate.
The unit just didnt look that good to me and why cant i have an opinion. I didnt look at the unit hoping it would look bad. I was hoping it would be nice. I was pleased by the historicalness, but the looks just didnt suit me. The mods add a lot of detail but it usually makes the game go quicker on my computer.
Man, I have been attacked like five times now for thiniking the unit doesnt look good. That is my opinion. I wouldnt be suprised if members here liked it. That would be their opinion.
The people that are claiming that im being hard on CA are at the same time being hard on me for having an opinion.
Sorry, i didnt know im not supposed to have an opinion, is this better.
OMG, this new unit is AWESOME. PRAISE CA!!! Im not going to get any sleep now. Looking at this one new unit is so much cooler than looking at the 50 mods have made. THANK YOU CA!
I personally think my opinon adds more to the discusion, but i get it now. People in the Colleseum dont want to hear opinions only praise. ~;)
Orda Khan
07-23-2005, 22:07
Calm down, calm down.
Ok you don't like the unit, yet at the same time you agree it looks quite historically accurate.......
Can you understand why some people are confused?
......Orda
Mongoose
07-23-2005, 22:21
We really shouldn't be ranting. It might not be great, but it's alot better then the first unit ~:cheers: I see this as a HUGE improvement.
What the hell guys. :furious3:
No Ca isnt evil. I obviously like their games as i am a member here.
Im not complaining about accuarcy it looks very accurate.
The unit just didnt look that good to me and why cant i have an opinion. I didnt look at the unit hoping it would look bad. I was hoping it would be nice. I was pleased by the historicalness, but the looks just didnt suit me. The mods add a lot of detail but it usually makes the game go quicker on my computer.
Man, I have been attacked like five times now for thiniking the unit doesnt look good. That is my opinion. I wouldnt be suprised if members here liked it. That would be their opinion.
The people that are claiming that im being hard on CA are at the same time being hard on me for having an opinion.
Sorry, i didnt know im not supposed to have an opinion, is this better.
OMG, this new unit is AWESOME. PRAISE CA!!! Im not going to get any sleep now. Looking at this one new unit is so much cooler than looking at the 50 mods have made. THANK YOU CA!
I personally think my opinon adds more to the discusion, but i get it now. People in the Colleseum dont want to hear opinions only praise. ~;)
The problem people have is your constant comparison of BI to EB. I know I'm tired of it. Now leaving aside that EB is everything I don't want in a mod, and I was never impressed with EB skins. Your constant comparisons would be enough to try the patience of anyone. To sum up your a broken record on the BI vs EB. People are tired of hearing and they let you have it in this thread.
^pretty much it, although I kept quiet...
personally EB looks interesting to me but I'm sure I'm going to love BI also... EB couldn't exist if CA hadn't made R:TW... and I think with the release of BI many more possibilities will open up for interested modders. The vanilla game in itself will be enjoyable to me, but the ability of the modders just adds to that - and I see a number of persons, maybe not yourself, but a number who seem to never have anything good to say about CA...
and no matter what part of life, a person who constantly complains is a nuisance to be around... with the first unit there was a huge outcry about fantasy units... with the second now ppl are complaining that it doesn't look pretty enough? It's just like... give me a break - if I was CA I would be wondering at the value of giving previews... as many here know - this board does not represent a majority of the CA audience, just it's most discerning portions...
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 23:33
The problem people have is your constant comparison of BI to EB.
? I compared it to EB here only after i was already attacked for not liking the unit.
I know I'm tired of it. Now leaving aside that EB is everything I don't want in a mod, and I was never impressed with EB skins. Your constant comparisons would be enough to try the patience of anyone. To sum up your a broken record on the BI vs EB. People are tired of hearing and they let you have it in this thread.
I'm not the only one who thinks most mods look better than BI.
and no matter what part of life, a person who constantly complains is a nuisance to be around...
I actually rarely complain. Not once will you ever see me complain in the MTW forum.
Things i have complained about-
historical accuaracy- nobody can argue that CA lakes in this department
this unit doesnt look good.-Im not the only one who thinks this.
with the first unit there was a huge outcry about fantasy units... with the second now ppl are complaining that it doesn't look pretty enough?
ofcourse there was an outcry on the first one, if you disagree with people not liking how that unit was put in then post your reasons there.
I have lost a lot of respect for what i once thought was a perfect community. You guys are sounding much more than a broken record than me.
"GO CA. YOU GUYS ROCK. RTW IS PERFECT.
I like the total war franchise and i played everyone of there games. As a fan it is my right and responsiblity to complain.
King of Atlantis
07-23-2005, 23:36
BTW, why did this turn into a hate thread. I gave my honest opinion of the unit and i would like to hear other peoples. That is the purpose of the thread i thought.
oh well guys, just flame away, you should be proud.
But in both threads on the BI units, yours was the loudest and most constant voice of seeming disapproval on the look of the units.
I'm not the only one who thinks most mods look better than BI.
Actually most mod skins look sub professional. You put up with the poor looks because you like what the mod is doing.
Mongoose
07-23-2005, 23:51
poor looks in EB? ignorance is bliss i guess....
Emit_Flesti
07-23-2005, 23:53
BTW, why did this turn into a hate thread. I gave my honest opinion of the unit and i would like to hear other peoples. That is the purpose of the thread i thought.
oh well guys, just flame away, you should be proud.
I have to agree with King of Atlantis when he says that he does not like it. It LOOKS like a run-over light auxilia, or something. However, I would expect that by the time of the the barbarian invasions the west roman army would have lower quality non-golden imperial age standard equipment.
Remember that one of the reasons why the legions kept marching on Rome and deposing emperors favoring their commander was that they did not get enough money and support. By the time of the late empire, Rome would not be economically able to support all those shiny lorica segmentata clad legionnaires (they kept emmiting more money, which only made things worse because of inflation). So, all you get for an elite unit is this half-caste lame excuse for a leggionaire.
Hope that brought a little sobriety to this quickly escalating thread ;)
Orda Khan
07-24-2005, 00:01
What is so awful about it? As for equipment, this is the equipment that the Roman army was using at this particular time. In fact quite Germanic, but there again so were many of Rome's generals
........Orda
^ My opinion.
I can't wait to see what people think of the Eastern Empire units.
.......Orda
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 00:14
Orda, I was happy to see your opinion. You showd your opinion with out attacking my opinion. That is how things are supposed to work and im glad everyone hasnt resorted to flamming.
But in both threads on [IMG]the BI units, yours was the loudest and most constant voice of seeming disapproval on the look of the units.
In the priest i was not really complaing about its looks, but its how it was implemented in the game. Though i do still wonder why they dont have solid black cloaks. And im not really angry about that i just wanted to know if there was a reason for it.
In this thread i have actually been attacked many times for not liking the look, which is possibly just that they didnt look good in real life, so obviously im going to write back.
Actually most mod skins look sub professional. You put up with the poor looks because you like what the mod is doing.
are you serious look at this pic from R E S G E S T A E .
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8247/13gg.jpg
antisocialmunky
07-24-2005, 00:49
Wow, now if you put those guys in Germania and turned up the blue on your monitor. You could reinact the begining of Gladiator.
It's even in widescreen! ~D
From my experience, the only mods that have routine unprofessional graphics are either ones dealing with VOXELs(Command and Conquer) or 2d animation.
Yeah the calvary look alright.
Alexander the Pretty Good
07-24-2005, 02:33
Yeah the calvary look alright.
Understatement, at least of the month.
And player1, one of my favorite units is the heavy peltasts! Seriously. :book:
King of Atlantis I hope you did not perceive me to be flaming you.
and I see a number of persons, maybe not yourself, but a number who seem to never have anything good to say about CA...
The part of my post which you neglected to acknowledge shows that I was not personally attacking you, which is what flaming is. Furthermore, I am harldy running around proclaiming that CA are gods made flesh. I just recognized what the general vibe of a large portion of this board seems to be to me, and why this attitude seems misguided to me.
Nonetheless, back to the Comitatenes, I thought their being depicted somewhat dully was a nice touch. Whether this was purposeful or not I suppose is open to argument, but given the looks of the units from R:TW and the graphic quality of the previous preview I think it was. It seems to me they're just representing the general run-down quality of the legions by this time.
And that calvary shot there is beautiful. *goes to look at R E S G E S T A E*
Steppe Merc
07-24-2005, 02:56
People have every right to complain about bad units. When a company insults it's main fan base, it has to expect negative response.
are you serious look at this pic from R E S G E S T A E .
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8247/13gg.jpg
:thumbsdown: :sleeping:
That sums up my feelings about that skin.
antisocialmunky
07-24-2005, 03:25
The ironic thing aobut lar's post is that thumbs down actually meant drop your weapon and let the other guy live in the Colloseum. Thumb point at chest ment kill the other guy.
In simple: When you a gladiator thumbs down = good, thumbs up/sideways = bad.
*Kerspam!*
Afro Thunder
07-24-2005, 03:26
I would just really like it if they got rid of the whole "each faction has to follow a certain color pattern" thing. I mean, the only differences between Armenian and Parthian Eastern Infantry in Vanilla RTW is that armenians have blue/green, and parthians have pink and bright purple! Come on! They can do better than that!
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 03:58
:thumbsdown: :sleeping:
That sums up my feelings about that skin.
your kidding right. You can not possibly like Ca's units better than this. This is prometheus's equites(sp?). I find it very hard to believe you like CA's better than this.
People have every right to complain about bad units. When a company insults it's main fan base, it has to expect negative response.
Were not its main base, just it's hard-core fans. Unfortunatley by going mainstream they make much more money.
I guess the reason that the unit doesnt look good is they probably didnt look that good in real life, though im sure prometheus could work some of his magic on them.
Prom, looks like I did you some good advertising! ~D
except of course the people who like CA's stuff better.
The ironic thing aobut lar's post is that thumbs down actually meant drop your weapon and let the other guy live in the Colloseum. Thumb point at chest ment kill the other guy.
In simple: When you a gladiator thumbs down = good, thumbs up/sideways = bad.
*Kerspam!*
No what's ironic in that trying to prove me wrong you made yourself look the fool. I've learned from latin/Roman experts that it's,
When your a gladiator thumb down= bad (loser gets the *point* )
thumb covered by fingers = good (loser lives)
The tumbs down for killing the losers (accompanied by a downward thrust of the forearm) came about as it mimics the killing blow with a gladius or dagger. Thumbs covered for sparing his life came about as to represent sheathing your weapon.
your kidding right. You can not possibly like Ca's units better than this. This is prometheus's equites(sp?). I find it very hard to believe you like CA's better than this.
That skin is just shinier than a CA one. I can't believe you think it's better.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 04:29
Just shinier! You realize it is representing the true effect of sunlight reflecting off the armor.
*also the armor is much more complex than any Ca unit.
*If you look this unit actually has a saddle where Ca just provides a faction colored cloth.
*Clothing very detailed.
*he went into every detail possible
*Knowing prom it has been researched thoruoghly
Again it is your opinion, but you really must not like details.
Just shinier! You realize it is representing the true effect of sunlight reflecting off the armor.
And it makes no difference it's not better than the CA skin
*also the armor is much more complex than any Ca unit.
[QUOTE=King of Atlantis]*If you look this unit actually has a saddle where Ca just provides a faction colored cloth.
Superfluous.
*Clothing very detailed.
*yawn*
*he went into every detail possible
And he didn't need to.
*Knowing prom it has been researched thoruoghly
And it's his interpretation, making it no better than CA's.
Again it is your opinion, but you really must not like details.
Details are relative.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 04:53
So basically look doesnt matter to you.
Though im to lazy to post a Ca equite, im sure anybody who has played the game can tell the numerous improvement this unit makes.
Here's another one from resgestae by prometheus.
http://img294.echo.cx/img294/1879/13zf.jpg
Compare that to the Barb without a shirt. Looks better, much more accurate.
And it's his interpretation, making no better than CA's.
actually using historic data to make a unit as accurate as possible is much better than what Ca does.
Emit_Flesti
07-24-2005, 06:36
KoA, where can I find that skin and how may I use it? Those look great! :charge:
CMcMahon
07-24-2005, 06:48
Jesus Christ, King of Atlanta. Why can't you ever have an open mind? CA makes a decent, accurate unit and you just sit in the corner saying that nothing CA can make will ever be accurate. And why do you people have to bring EB into every topic about BI?
I find it highly ironic that KOA, the insanely anal realism guy when it comes to CA, is working on a mod (more like a "please let us join your mod" group) about Atlantis rising again to take on the powers at be i the RTW time setting.
edit: I fully expect a "omg don't talk smack because you don't make your own mod so you don't know how hard it is" type reply, but whatever. I work seven days a week, eight hours a day, and have more important things in my life than worrying, fretting, and moaning about than how realistic or unrealistic a specific unit is (much less looks) in a computer game that, honestly, isn't all that bad, even though it does have plenty of flaws.
Although I haven't agreed with KOA on much, I don't see how anyone can claim those screenshots aren't pretty. Whether they're better than CA's work is irrevelant - that's some nice artwork.
CMcMahon
07-24-2005, 07:32
Yes, that's true. But, seeing as how everyone else has failed to note this, what game with mods doesn't have custom skins that look better than that in the vanilla variety? SimCity 4, Counter-Strike (*sigh*), Tribes 2, Far Cry, etc, etc all have custom skins and models that easily outdo anything made by the developers. So, logically, it makes perfect sense for the same to apply to RTW.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 07:48
I find it highly ironic that KOA, the insanely anal realism guy when it comes to CA, is working on a mod (more like a "please let us join your mod" group) about Atlantis rising again to take on the powers at be i the RTW time setting.
Actually our mod is an invasion mod for vanilla though it would be nice if we could be an invasion mod for a mod like troy. I am a lover of Fantasy. Lord of the rings is might favorite book. But, i am also a fan of realism. I dont however like it when something is played as historical, but is infact fantasy.
insanely anal realism guy
The only time i have complained about realism is the priest on the battlefield. I wasnt really moaning, but more trying to explain to people how unrealistic they are and just about anyone who really cares about historic accuracy was on my side.
So lets review your post, you took cheap shots at me and a mod that I am a subleader of. Your reasons are i complained that warrior priest are unrealistic and that i didnt like the looks of this unit.
and the omg isnt you dont work hard so dont talk smack its why the hell are you talking smack. Cause i didnt like the look of the unit this thread is about and stated my opinion. Im sorry but you seem very anal.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 07:50
Yes, that's true. But, seeing as how everyone else has failed to note this, what game with mods doesn't have custom skins that look better than that in the vanilla variety? SimCity 4, Counter-Strike (*sigh*), Tribes 2, Far Cry, etc, etc all have custom skins and models that easily outdo anything made by the developers. So, logically, it makes perfect sense for the same to apply to RTW.
okay so you agree with me. The mod skins look better than the original. That claim is what has gotten me attacked in this thread by you and many others.
CMcMahon
07-24-2005, 07:55
But my point is that it's that way for most every game out there. It's not like CA is the only company that's releasing a game where modders, skinners, and whatnot have outdone the original skins and models.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 08:04
And i agree on that point. That doesnt change what i said. The new units dont look as good as the mods. Appearantly something like that gets me two pages of flaming.
Duke John
07-24-2005, 09:36
Not all of us are interested in what EB or other mods are doing, so it does become repetitive and boring to see constant referals to these mods. Those mods have subforums for a reason, let's keep most of the discussions where they belong.
And I don't think posting pics of other mods to prove a point is not very usefull as it always come down to a matter of taste and one's taste is not superior to that of another.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 09:47
I only broought up Eb cause i was attacked for not liking a unit's looks, so i said what looks good to me. I didnt say by the way EB units are so much better, haha CA. I oly refered to Ca after an attack cause of an opinion.
Your right Duke John everyone has their own opnion and i have said that many times. Thats what a message board is for, to voice your opinions.
I dont know how many times im going to have to explain this in this thread. :embarassed:
I think the morale of the story is this, if you have an opinion and want to post it make sure you dont do it in the Colosseum. :embarassed:
I(and others) dont like how the new units looks
other people do.
Both opinions are good and both sides are allowed to have them..
I have kept this story since the begging and had to repost it in deffernt ways many times. I just posted prom's units cause it was said mods dont look profesional. Wether you like the looks or not you have to admit they look profesional.
:embarassed: :embarassed: ~:handball:
Duke John
07-24-2005, 10:04
Wether you like the looks or not you have to admit they look profesional.
No, I don't need to. CA's skins while not to my taste do look professional; they are clean and do not have (many) irregularities caused by not properly adjusting the UV coordinates or non-sensical surfaces showed by many mod (as in the screenshots of Resgestae).
When you say: "You have to admit..." you are enforcing your opinion and that attitude is what probably caused your posts to be attacked.
*If you look this unit actually has a saddle where Ca just provides a faction colored cloth.
And to my knowledge saddles didn't exist at this time so this is a fantasy unit.
Marcellus
07-24-2005, 12:45
And to my knowledge saddles didn't exist at this time so this is a fantasy unit.
~:confused:
They had saddles at this time. They didn't have stirrups, perhaps that's what you're thinking of.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 13:59
~:confused:
They had saddles at this time. They didn't have stirrups, perhaps that's what you're thinking of.
exactly.
~:confused:
They had saddles at this time. They didn't have stirrups, perhaps that's what you're thinking of.
No, according to what I know the first saddle didn't exist until 365(+-5 years) AD in Sarmatia.
Marcellus
07-24-2005, 16:13
No, according to what I know the first saddle didn't exist until 365(+-5 years) AD in Sarmatia.
Interesting. having searched around the internet for a while, I found several sites saying that the Sarmatians invented the saddle in AD365. However, I also found sites that showed that the Romans had saddles for their cavalry. It seems that the Sarmatians invented the saddle we know today, but that the Romans did have saddles before this. They just weren't as advanced as the saddles we have now. They had four 'horns' on them to stop the rider falling off:
http://www.hightowercrafts.com/roman%20saddle.jpg
Source please ??
Gotta remember that one of the reason that historians bash "the gladiator" is because they are using saddles.
Marcellus
07-24-2005, 16:36
Source please ??
Gotta remember that one of the reason that historians bash "the gladiator" is because they are using saddles.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Stage/3591/army.html
Roman cavalry of the early and middle Empire was organized in alae, units of 500 to 1,000 men divided into squadrons, or turmae, of 30 or 40 horsemen under the command of decurions. We know that the Romans used a kind of saddle, with four saddle horns for anchoring baggage, but they had no knowledge of stirrups, although they did use spurs
http://www.caerleon.net/history/army/page7.html#saddle
scroll down to the 'cavalry' bit
http://www.scran.ac.uk/packs/exhibitions/learning_materials/webs/56/Auxil.htm
Archaeological discoveries, however, have revealed that the Roman saddle was designed with projecting horns to keep the rider firmly in place, rather like the cowboy saddle of more recent times.
http://www.legiiavg.org.uk/articles/cavalry_wholedoc.html
The all-important saddle had no stirrups. These were replaced by the use of 4 horns on the saddle itself, which offered a great sense of security, as the horseman could not fall out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry
The decline of the Roman infrastructure made it successively more difficult to field large infantry forces, and during the second and third centuries cavalry began to take a more dominant role on the battlefield, also in part made possible by the appearance of new, larger breeds of horses. The replacement of the insubstantial Roman saddle by variants on the Scythian model, with pommel and cantle, was significant too.
p.s. it's 'Gladiator', not 'the Gladiator'. Maybe they were using the wrong kind of saddle?
I stand corrected then :bow:
However the cavalry in the pic is still fantasy tho since it is the wrong saddle ~;)
Mongoose
07-24-2005, 16:51
Um, no. That unit is NOT fantasy in anyway.
Um, no. That unit is NOT fantasy in anyway.
According to your and many others mentality it is.
They didn't use that saddle during this period of RTW so it is obviously a fantasy unit.
Mongoose
07-24-2005, 17:04
Yes, they did...
Prove that they didn't use the saddle :smartass:
See the previous post. ~;)
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 17:32
That saddle may not be 100% accurate, but im sure prometheus has researched this much more than us.
I don't get want your point is. We complain that a ahistorical unit is ahistorical and you try to get back by saying that the saddle may or may not be hisrotical. In truth it is probably hard to say what the romans had. Sometimes skinners have to just do guess work as this was a very long time ago. I would not complain to Ca for doing their best to make a histoical based impression.
There new units seems to have been done this way, which actually may be the reason why it doesnt look good to me.
cunctator
07-24-2005, 18:25
This saddle is 100% accurate for a 1st century ad unit like Prometheus equites singulares. The RES GESTAE mod ends 69ad.
The four horned saddle apaered in sculptural and aercheological evidence around the very late 1st century BC/ early 1st century ad. This kind of saddle is not realy inferior to modern ones, it was just designed for another purpose.
I can post pictures of roman monuments showing this kind of saddle tomorrow if you are not convinced.
BobTheTerrible
07-24-2005, 18:26
That saddle may not be 100% accurate, but im sure prometheus has researched this much more than us.
I don't get want your point is. We complain that a ahistorical unit is ahistorical and you try to get back by saying that the saddle may or may not be hisrotical. In truth it is probably hard to say what the romans had. Sometimes skinners have to just do guess work as this was a very long time ago.
I believe his point is that it's rather ironic that you, as a staunch supporter of historical accuracy, point everyone towards a skin that is (possibly) not in fact 100% historically accurate.
As a side note, I don't think it's really worthwhile to be arguing over the looks of a unit. Units etc can be modded in or out. The real thing that will make or break BI for people here is the AI. I don't care if CA gives us Armored Bicycle Knights; as long they've greatly improved the AI then it will be bought if only to mod. (And I'm sure the armored bicycle knights will be the first to be removed)
Marcellus
07-24-2005, 18:32
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/8247/13gg.jpg
As far as I can see, the saddles in this screenshot match the saddles that the Romans used:
http://www.hightowercrafts.com/roman%20saddle.jpg
There are no stirrups and the saddle has two large 'horns' pointing sideways from the front of the saddle to hold the rider in place.
The unit appears to be historically accurate, although Bob has a point when he says that the AI will probably be more important to most people than whether a unit is 100% historically accurate (although I do support historical accuracy wherever possible).
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 18:34
I believe his point is that it's rather ironic that you, as a staunch supporter of historical accuracy, point everyone towards a skin that is (possibly) not in fact 100% historically accurate.
actually the "looks" of units is always debatable. Thus i never judge Ca for being inaccurate by its skins. It't the units themselves that i care about.
And if you look at the post above you will see that this unit is probably accurate. Again, i dont really know enough about roman saddles to know, but as I said the skins are always the artist impression and they cant possibly be 100% accurate, though these are possibly very accurate, as their maker Prometheus knows what he is doing.
I believ it is rather ironic that people know more about me than i do. Did i every complain about a units skin saying its not accurate? I think not.
Bob,
the ai is more important and really ahistorical units dont bother me that much. People trying to argue the priest fighting is realistic does bother me. But then again thats not even what this thread is about though most people seem to be trying to get revenge for that thread here.
I still have seen very few people post their opnions about this unit, as it seems most people find it funner to flame me or assume things that i never said.
Marcellus
07-24-2005, 19:01
I still have seen very few people post their opnions about this unit, as it seems most people find it funner to flame me or assume things that i never said.
You're right, this thread does seem to have gone a bit off-topic (and I suppose I am partly responsible for that, so sorry). If you got the impression that I was one of those trying to flame you then I apologise, it certainly wasn't my intention.
So back to the Roman Comitatenes (which is what this thread is about, after all).
I quite like the skin. It's not as nice as say, the Roman legionaries but it's still pretty good.
King of Atlantis
07-24-2005, 19:07
Marcellus you certainly werent flamming me as most of your post seemed to be agreeing with me and dont worry about you taking this thread off topic. Ever since the first page people have been more intent on attacking my opinion than giving their own. I would be pleased if this stopped and am happy to go on with the thread.
~:grouphug:
Im guessing this unit is supposed to look "barbarian" as that is what was happening to the roman army.
antisocialmunky
07-24-2005, 21:54
No what's ironic in that trying to prove me wrong you made yourself look the fool. I've learned from latin/Roman experts that it's,
When your a gladiator thumb down= bad (loser gets the *point* )
thumb covered by fingers = good (loser lives)
The tumbs down for killing the losers (accompanied by a downward thrust of the forearm) came about as it mimics the killing blow with a gladius or dagger. Thumbs covered for sparing his life came about as to represent sheathing your weapon.
Hmm, that's interesting. It's thumbs down good according to Discovery Channel. I'm curious, what's your source if oyu can give a online source?
I don't think we should put so much stock on whether a unit looks historically accurate. It's not like we have time machines.
Hmm, that's interesting. It's thumbs down good according to Discovery Channel. I'm curious, what's your source if oyu can give a online source?
I don't think we should put so much stock on whether a unit looks historically accurate. It's not like we have time machines.
I can't as my source is in a similar vien as yours, TV. Specifically some documentary about the movie Gladiator. They guy who gave the little speach I recited was a British Roman/Latin expert who works in Rome. He also gave the latin terms that accompanied the hand gestures (don't ask as I don't remember them).
antisocialmunky
07-25-2005, 02:47
That's not much better than several historians trying to debunk that famous Rennaissance painting of the gladiator fight where everyone's doing the thumbs down.
Moot.
I've been trying to remember more of what was said about Gladiators and the thumb signs. They did say that there was documenatry (IE written records) evidence to support that tumbs down was the sign to kill the loser. But that tumbs up to spare the loser came along later due to a mistranslation of a script or something like that. And that thumbs covered was the sign to spare someone.
antisocialmunky
07-25-2005, 12:41
Well, atleast we can agree that it wasn't thumbs up. It was either a thumb to the side or thumb covered as you said.
Coldfish
07-25-2005, 21:35
What`s with the shield......roman comitatanes shiled is totaly unrealistic.....and where`s that clasic red roman shield ?? ~:confused:
that makes it first mistake of BI so far
The shield seems to be accurate as you can see here.
Maybe not the motive on the shield but the rest seems to be accurate.
http://par.toutatis.free.fr/comitatus/img1.jpg
Orda Khan
07-25-2005, 22:17
What`s with the shield......roman comitatanes shiled is totaly unrealistic.....and where`s that clasic red roman shield ?? ~:confused:
that makes it first mistake of BI so far
The classic Roman shield has, like the shiney legionary, faded away. Armour, weaponry and even commanders had become very Germanic. Round shields and chain mail became the norm
......Orda
Coldfish
07-25-2005, 22:46
ummm...i didn`t knew that....i thought in that period romans still used that rectangular shield..thanks for the info....anyway i think those rectangular red shields legionaires had....are better for protection
swirly_the_toilet_fish
07-26-2005, 04:23
I think everyone just needs to calm down, have a cookie or biscuit (mm), and just think of the mod possibilities with the new units. :smug:
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