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View Full Version : Sleeper train losing £2.5m a year


ShadesWolf
07-25-2005, 20:02
Heard this on the radio on the way home, and I couldnt believe it, so I thought I would share it with my friends at the ORG.


The under-threat sleeper train from Cornwall to London loses an estimated £2.5m a year, according to the latest Government figures.
It costs about £5m a year to run the service from Paddington to Penzance.

However income from ticket sales is "certainly less than 50% of costs", the Department for Transport said.

Cornish MPs are leading a campaign to save the sleeper amid fears it could be withdrawn next April by whoever wins the new Greater Western franchise.

A spokesman for the Department for Transport said: "We don't accurately know the cost of running the sleeper service.

We have asked the bidders for the Greater Western franchise to give us separate costings for the sleeper. We suspect it could be done for better value for money, but no decisions have been made."

Bids for the Greater Western franchise, which combines the services currently offered by First Great Western, First Great Western Link and Wessex Trains, must be submitted by September.

The Department for Transport will choose the successful bidder and the new franchise will start on 1 April.

Andrew George, the Lib-Dem MP for St Ives, said: "This is a watershed decision for the Secretary of State.

"We accept that across a whole service, some elements will be more economically viable than others.

"But if the Secretary of State believes that he can strip out the less viable component parts without looking at the service as a whole then the very mainline service through Cornwall is under threat along with the branch lines."

The sleeper train is popular with business travellers from Cornwall because it means they can arrive in London in time for early meetings.
el_slapper
07-26-2005, 10:24
A spokesman for the Department for Transport said: "We don't accurately know the cost of running the sleeper service.

Urgh. This is really worrying. The guy knows the total loss, the tickets sold, but not the cost(basically the difference)????? Erm, there are things to correct in the management. Maybe they should privatize? ~;)

Railroad is no more directly economically efficient without subsidies - but subsidising it is really efficient in macro-economics terms. Plus it helps developping remote areas.
Al Khalifah
07-26-2005, 10:27
Railways in Britain (especially around London) are surely likely to suffer in the wake of the recent terrorist attacks.
Ja'chyra
07-26-2005, 10:30
Don't know about Cornwall to London, but when I travel from the Southampton area back to Scotland it's cheaper to fly, and quicker.

Does Cornwall have an airport? Have they even got crinkle cut chips yet? ~D
ShadesWolf
07-26-2005, 15:15
Does Cornwall have an airport? Have they even got crinkle cut chips yet?

Listening to the radio yesterday the spokesmen basically said, with a Train u get on it at 10pm in cornwall, have a sleep and it gets you into London at 5am ish, you have breakfast and then go about doing you business.

In comparison the Plane does not get you in on time and the person usually misses the meeting etc.....

Im not sure about price London to Cornwall ? But they were talking about it being a small amount to take the sleeper (I think they said £34), I assume that is on top of the cost of the train journey.
Ja'chyra
07-26-2005, 15:36
I've only used a sleeper once when going to an interview in London when I still stayed in Scotland. Needless to say it full of drunken football fans and I never got any sleep, still got the job though, I'm so good...
xemitg
07-26-2005, 18:06
How popular is the train system in England? In America the railroad companies only survive on massive government subsidies. Actually I can only think of CSX as the sole surviving railroad conglomerate .
ShadesWolf
07-26-2005, 21:36
How popular is the train system in England?

Thats a hard one to answer ? I personnely almost never use it. Its impossible for me to get to work on, unless I drive the same distance as work to catch one, then they are not on time etc.,

If you live in London its prob ok, and gets used. If I need to go into the city then I would probably use it, but only because it would be a problem to parking, traffic etc....

Has anybody else got any comments

As for finance and profitability, well Labour nationalised all the private train operators years ago, I would image they were profitable else they'd have gone out of business.

Hence, same old story, not enough money put in, to many paper pushers, 10 people doing the same job = not profitable, tax burdon for a second rate service.
bmolsson
07-26-2005, 22:00
It's a pity that train isn't used more than they are. Flying is superior on long travels, but you have at least 2 hours extra on start and landing, plus often the fact that airports are located in the middle of nowhere......
Taffy_is_a_Taff
07-26-2005, 22:12
I've done the London-Aberdeen sleeper a few times. It was excellent: if you have a bed it's very restful. If you have a seat then find a random drinking buddy because it's impossible to sleep in the bloody chairs.
xemitg
07-27-2005, 04:12
Hence, same old story, not enough money put in, to many paper pushers, 10 people doing the same job = not profitable, tax burdon for a second rate service.

Alas... Such is the plight of the middle class.
Idaho
07-27-2005, 10:31
How popular is the train system in England? In America the railroad companies only survive on massive government subsidies. Actually I can only think of CSX as the sole surviving railroad conglomerate .

Who pays for the roads in America?

Are do airlines get a tax rebate on fuel?
BDC
07-27-2005, 15:31
The City wouldn't work without the trains. Everyone is shipped in from the suburbs every morning. Round here the trains are completely packed. I've practically been lodged against the door a few times. Just have to hope the first stop is yours as you fall out.
xemitg
07-28-2005, 02:51
Who pays for the roads in America?

Are do airlines get a tax rebate on fuel?

In America the roads are maintained largely by the states. The federal government built many of the highways but it’s the state and local governments who keeps them decent. The small roads like the ones outside of my house are city roads which I pay taxes for primarily through gas tax. The way I understand it, the Federal Government pays the states to help keep the roads in good order.

About the tax rebate on jet fuel, the answer is no. I heard on the radio that a typical jet consumes a staggering 700 gallons of premium fuel per hour of flight. On a related note, I heard on the news today that Delta is inching ever closer to bankruptcy.
Idaho
07-28-2005, 08:45
My point being that all transport is subsidised.