View Full Version : Jane fonda at it again
scooter_the_shooter
07-31-2005, 18:11
Some one told me Jane fonda is going to iraq with the insurgents or something. I dont know if this is true or not. Can any one find more info.
She should have been shot for treason the last time because she helped torture pows. If she is really going hopefully she sits on an IED this time instead of an AA gun.
Ser Clegane
07-31-2005, 18:22
Wouldn't it be appropriate to do some research yourself in order to confirm this rumor before starting a thread about it?
scooter_the_shooter
07-31-2005, 18:26
.. Hm?
She is an american celebrity who went to North Vietnam to show support for them. While there she helped torture american POWS.
and i will go look for it cleange
Al Khalifah
07-31-2005, 18:26
Here's an article on the subject from the LA Times:
Bush's Jane Fonda-esque mistake (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-brooks30jul30,0,7946348.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions)
She is an american celebrity who went to North Vietnam to show support for them. While there she helped torture american POWS.
and i will go look for it cleange
I bet she tortured as many POW's as you have been to the moon.
Al Khalifah
07-31-2005, 18:33
From Wikipedia:
"Hanoi Jane"
In Vietnam, Fonda was photographed seated on an anti-aircraft battery used to fire at American pilots, and participated in several radio broadcasts of the Communist regime, asking US pilots to turn around without dropping their bombs. In her 2005 autobiography she said that she had been manipulated into sitting on the battery, having previously rejected any visits to military installations, which the Vietnamese ignored. She said that at the time of the photo she had been manipulated into sitting on the battery whilst laughing about an unrelated joke, not realising immediately what she was sitting on - and was immediately horrified at the implications of the photo that was swiftly taken.
She also visited American prisoners of war, who she claims assured her they had been neither tortured nor brainwashed. Fonda advanced these claims and relayed them to the American public. When cases of torture began to emerge among POWs returning to the United States, Fonda called them liars. She also added, concerning the POWs she met, "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." Concerning torture in general, Fonda told the New York Times in 1973, "I'm quite sure that there were incidents of torture...but the pilots who were saying it was the policy of the Vietnamese and that it was systematic, I believe that's a lie." Her stance has some backing, as former vice presidential candidate and POW James Stockdale wrote that no more than 10% of US pilots in captivity received more than 90% of the torture, usually for acts of resistance. Additionally, John Hubbel's research into the conflict indicates that the majority (but certainly not all) of the torture occurred before 1969.
Fonda's visit to Hanoi was not until July of 1972, and the Paris Peace Accords were signed less than six months later. Fonda delivered home letters from many American POWs in Vietnam. She also is often credited with publicly exposing the strategy of bombing the dikes in Vietnam, for which she was at the time called a "liar" by then-UN ambassador George H. W. Bush.
Although the war was largely protested at home by this time, and many Americans were against the war, her actions in July, 1972, were widely perceived as over the top. The anti-war movement of the time was not characterized by a single motivation: some, such as Quakers and other traditionally pacifist groups were opposed to war in any circumstances; some felt that the war was not an American responsibility or concern, arguing especially that it was a civil war in which the US was choosing sides; some, such as young men of draft age, their parents and friends, didn't want their lives risked in an unpopular war; but some expressed a partisanship for the opposing side in the war, including Jane Fonda—and this made her a polarizing figure.
Rumors that Fonda handed over information from U.S. prisoners of war to National Liberation Front (NLF) insurgents (better known in the U.S. as the "Viet Cong") were never confirmed, as were reports that a pilot spat at Fonda and was beaten for it and that one POW was beaten to death for refusing to meet with her. The latter story, though, may be an exaggeration of the true account of Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the NLF in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. He wrote "When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs were receiving, which was far different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as 'humane and lenient.' Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a piece of steel re-bar placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped." [1] [2]
Her detractors labeled her Hanoi Jane, comparing her to war propagandists Tokyo Rose and Hanoi Hannah. She has often been associated with contributing to a perceived anti-soldier sentiment among Vietnam War protesters, such as spitting on soldiers. Because of her actions, actor John Wayne cut off contact with her, even though he was a close friend of her father, and the Fonda children considered him an uncle.
Strike For The South
07-31-2005, 20:34
Some people just need to be systamaticly eradicated
Some people just need to be systamaticly eradicated
wha?
Ser Clegane
07-31-2005, 21:49
Some people just need to be systamaticly eradicated
Thanks for this very eloquent and distinctive contribution to the discussion in the Backroom. :shifty:
Tribesman
07-31-2005, 23:19
Some one told me Jane fonda is going to iraq with the insurgents or something.
Or something ~D ~D ~D
She is doing a tour in the company of American veterans of the Iraq war in a vegetable oil fueled bus to protest against a useless expensive war that was started over a heap of bullshit :dizzy2:
Some one told me
tell your friends to learn to read or listen , it has been in all the media :book:
edit to add
She should have been shot for treason the last time because she helped torture pows.
What can you say to a statement like that ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D :help:
Now where was that topic about Vietnam and Iraq ~;)
Blodrast
07-31-2005, 23:23
Someone told me we should create a new topic ... or something. :balloon2:
Taffy_is_a_Taff
07-31-2005, 23:33
I think she's doing some anti-war tour of the U.S. later this year/next year.
I think Fonda is clearly showing herself as an idiot to be doing this. After so many years she finally rehabilitates her career enough to actually land a major role and they she marches back out on anti-war protests. You'd think she'd be a little more cautious considering how many people she upset last time.
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 01:29
I know a few vietnam vets and they hate her. She betrayed her country and should hang for it.
She is just another one of them !@#$ rich people looking for a cause. While I was looking for an article about her, one thing said she supported the black panthers. ~:eek:
She was just a dumb kid.
Calling for her execution is a tad over the top...
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 01:46
Do you support what she did in nam?
Yes thats true. She was dumb then and may still be dumb now. Hardly worth calling for her execution, one visit and a ill-judged photo-op does not a Lord Hawhaw make. Her other supposed crimes have never been confirmed. I've never understood this hatred some on this board have for her. As for encouraging anti-soldier feelings I do not know, but I deplore such sentiments as deeply unfair.At least she has stuck by her pacifist beliefs and is willing to put her career, such as it is, in jeopardy again.
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 01:55
Do you know who the black pathers are??? they are NOT pacifist.
We're talking about Jane Fonda, though, not the Black Panthers.
Ceasar, I know what the Black Panthers are, yes. What I do not know is the whereabouts of that article you mention or the words "I support the Black Panthers in all they do" coming from Fonda's own mouth.
Without that information that post is as speculative and vague as your opening one.
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 02:23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda
She likewise supported Huey Newton and the Black Panthers in the early 1970s. She said "revolution is an act of love; we are the children of revolution, born to be rebels. It runs in our blood." She called the Black Panthers "our revolutionary vanguard. We must support them with love, money, propaganda and risk."
she is a phsyco
Perhaps you should follow the link to the Black Panther page?
Divinus Arma
08-01-2005, 03:26
Here is old Hanoi Jane behind the gunsights in Nam '72.
https://img277.imageshack.us/img277/6720/fondagun4bu.th.gif (https://img277.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fondagun4bu.gif)
Azi Tohak
08-01-2005, 04:23
Yes thats true. She was dumb then and may still be dumb now. Hardly worth calling for her execution, one visit and a ill-judged photo-op does not a Lord Hawhaw make. Her other supposed crimes have never been confirmed. I've never understood this hatred some on this board have for her. As for encouraging anti-soldier feelings I do not know, but I deplore such sentiments as deeply unfair.At least she has stuck by her pacifist beliefs and is willing to put her career, such as it is, in jeopardy again.
Yup. Remember, she is entitled to her own opinion. Just like the Dixie Chicks (for those who don't know who they are, they are a country music group that shot their mouth off at the wrong time and got smacked for it by fans and radio stations).
Should she have done what she did? I don't think so, but her actions did draw attention to what was wrong with some troops in Vietnam and also helped the military clean up its act.
Saying she should be executed for treason is silly. She is not a traitor.
Azi
bmolsson
08-01-2005, 05:52
While there she helped torture american POWS.
I thought it has been established here that panties on head, even Jane Fonda's, are not torture...... ~;)
Kaiser of Arabia
08-01-2005, 06:09
She was just a dumb kid.
Calling for her execution is a tad over the top...
No it's not. She is a traitor, and the penalty for treason is death.
Okaaayyyy....
Do you want to elaborate on how she deserves death? She was definitely insensitive to the troops, government policy and common sense, but I think death's a bit excessive...
Those of you who are saying she helped torture POWs are the victims of an urban legend:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm
Divinus Arma
08-01-2005, 06:36
No it's not. She is a traitor, and the penalty for treason is death.
Holy hell! I was just about to post on how I thought most of you guys were joking around with the execution stuff, but damn!
Even I joke around with fatalistic comments such as "turning the middle east into a sheet of glass" and so forth. But wow. You guys are evil bastards. I LOVE IT! ~:cheers: ~D
discovery1
08-01-2005, 06:38
I don't think she whould be shot. 20 years, sure. Life, maybe. After all Tokyo Rose wasn't shot was she?
Divinus Arma
08-01-2005, 06:40
And BTW, since we are executing traitors, we should take out all those leftist "human shields", Sean Penn, and the Rehhhhhhhverend Jesse Jackson.
Oh what the heck, lets just declare ourselves Democratic Imperators already! We rule the world in all but name. We might as well let every one know who is there daddy! :helmet:
treason
n 1: a crime that undermines the offender's government [syn: high
treason, lese majesty]
2: disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior [syn: subversiveness,
traitorousness]
3: an act of deliberate betrayal [syn: treachery, betrayal,
perfidy]
i wonder....does, let´s say lying to your nation(let´s just say ~D ) about facts and information in order to create a war count as "subversive behavior"?
could dubya be on the way to the chop block? :bow: ~D
The law defines it as giving "Aid and Comfort to the enemy."
So, alas, Dubya wins this time.
loool....i wasn´t being serious....
i´m pretty sure that Bin Laden is on Dubya´s fan-list, not sure if that counts has aid and confort ~D
just making a point tough, i get the feeling that in the US the term "treason" and "traitor" get thrown around kinda loosely....
R'as al Ghul
08-01-2005, 10:17
I may be completely naive and ignorant but please explain
how it is a problem when Jane Fonda voices her opinion?
Is it because she's a celebrity or is it just
that you can't stand it when a fellow American criticizes her country?
R'as al Ghul
08-01-2005, 10:28
She did more than express her opinion. She travelled to North Vietnam and fraternized with the enemy soldiers.
So? Is this enough to make the largest military force in the world nervous?
Opposition is the most natural thing in a democracy.
She's entitled to her own opinion.
If the US reacted to all opposition with the death penalty
I would'nt call it a democracy.
According to all sources, POWs were harmed as a result from her visit.
I haven't seen any proof of a connection.
R'as al Ghul
08-01-2005, 12:41
Nobody is denying it. Why do you need proof?
Nobody?
From Wikipedia:
"Hanoi Jane"
Rumors that Fonda handed over information from U.S. prisoners of war to National Liberation Front (NLF) insurgents (better known in the U.S. as the "Viet Cong") were never confirmed, as were reports that a pilot spat at Fonda and was beaten for it and that one POW was beaten to death for refusing to meet with her.
Okaaayyyy....
Those of you who are saying she helped torture POWs are the victims of an urban legend:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm
R'as al Ghul
08-01-2005, 12:52
The final anecdote in the "Hanoi Jane" email recounts the experience of a POW who agreed to meet with Fonda but announced to his captors that he planned on telling her how horrid conditions in North Vietnamese prison camps really were.
"Because of this," the narrative continues, "I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a piece of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped."
So, how is this Ms. Fonda's fault?
And how does this justify the death penalty?
The prisoner in question wanted to complain about his condition,
was stupid enough to tell his captors and was punished for his intent.
BTW, if this Roark's link, I've trouble to access the page from work.
Sorry.
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 14:14
STUPID he is NOT :furious3: They should give that man a medal for standing up to them commies and that traitor Fonda.
STUPID he is NOT :furious3: They should give that man a medal for standing up to them commies and that traitor Fonda.
stupid he is yes...he could have played along...until he was in from of Fonda and then delivered the message as he intended....he would still have been punished by the guards but at least the message would have come across....the way he did it nothing was achieved.
one can be a patriot, like this man certainly is, and still be dumb i´m afraid.
Franconicus
08-01-2005, 14:26
Hey folks, you are really crazy! She is an actor, not more not less. With her trip to Nam she showed that she is stupid, that is all.
She travelled to North Vietnam and fraternized with the enemy soldiers.
She is a traitor, and the penalty for treason is death:no:
I really wonder if you think before you say someone should be killed ~:confused:
Tribesman
08-01-2005, 14:29
The law defines it as giving "Aid and Comfort to the enemy."
In that case Dubya is guilty , since al-qaida is the enemy in this case , his actions have aided them by boosting their recruitment , giving them piles of propoganda victories and providing a nice live fire training facility known as Iraq .
R'as al Ghul
08-01-2005, 14:30
STUPID he is NOT :furious3:
I wouldn't call his action exceptionally clever either.
My understanding of the Fonda issue, and I'm not in any way
a Fan of her or defending her actions, is that any American
who speaks against his country (like this chessplayer, forgot the name atm)
is treated like the enemy by his compatriots.
This seems especially true when actions of the armed forces are criticized!?
I'm merely trying to understand Americans.
So, there's no need to feel offended by someone who just asks questions.
Right?
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 14:31
She is a traitor and should be treated as such. I wont be surprised if any one eggs the bus, throws rocks at it etc
Its Like me or you going to chill with osama holding an ak47 smiling, and telling hostages they are liars and evil.
If any one did that I would want the death penalty against them.
Franconicus
08-01-2005, 14:34
She is a traitor and should be treated as such. I wont be surprised if any one eggs the bus, throws rocks at it etc
Is it true that you are allowed to wear guns?
scooter_the_shooter
08-01-2005, 14:41
If you buy the license yes you can. A few people in my family do.
Franconicus
08-01-2005, 15:24
You guys are really dangerous! Now I see why Gawain is afraid that the White-Christians will die out. They will propably shoot themselfes :dizzy2:
Kaiser of Arabia
08-01-2005, 16:29
Who said shoot her? I perfer a good old drawing-and-quartering myself.
PanzerJaeger
08-02-2005, 02:29
Jane Fonda is a traitor to this nation and I hope she slips on some vegitable oil leaking out of that contraption she'll be traveling around on and impales herself on the 1/3 scale replica of the AA gun she drags around with her. :yes:
Byzantine Prince
08-02-2005, 02:44
How can you guys hate someone that beautiful?!?!
https://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9931/janefondabarbarellac101022765a.jpg
Nevermind, nevermind!
*BP drags his ass to the Babe Thread where he belongs* :bow:
PanzerJaeger
08-02-2005, 03:04
Thats great, but whats she done for us lately?
http://www.3rdmarines.net/fonda.jpg
ugh.. :thinking:
Del Arroyo
08-02-2005, 03:43
Caesar, Kaiser et al:
Geez, what's the deal with the conserva-tots? Isn't it past your guyz bedtime??
As far as Jane Fonda-- she was a young idiot just like all of you, so have some forgiveness and you might actually get some. Hopefully by the time you're her age you'll have learned more than she obviously has... ~:rolleyes:
DA
Samurai Waki
08-02-2005, 04:17
I don't think putting her to the rack is necessary... although it would be entertaining. Anyway, lets just exile her, and then she can go wherever she wants and fraternize with whomever she wants, and we won't have to feel angry about it.
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