What to specialize on if you have three iron provinces?

[bretwalda]

Lets say you have 3 iron provinces with the Hungarians (Carpathia, Hungary, Bohemia) or with the Spanish/Aragon (pick three :wink: )

What would you specialize on in these provinces?

I guess it is a no-no for archers and spearmen troops. So you have to choose heavy cavalry, royal cavalry, horse archers, light cavalry, sword infantry and axe (militia) infantry. Categorization is according to build requirements here - it makes more sense...

So what do you think?

[Advo-san]

A fine question, somebody give an answer please.

[Advo-san]

But why not build spearmen with a weapon upgrade?

[bretwalda]

But why not build spearmen with a weapon upgrade?

I think weapon upgrade is more useful with attack troops but I might be wrong... You have to choose anyway -- cant have all the troops with a weapon upgrade or else you have too much time and money to spare so that you could have won the game :wink:

[mfberg]

The English especially should build weapon bonus in a spear province, because in High billmen become available through the spear line. I usually build for weapon bonus for my Light and Medium Cavalry first (cheaper to upkeep, and it makes the able to fight heavies sometimes) and then my footmen (either sword or halbreds), then spears third and heavy cav (easily built in the medium cav province, but may need spearmakers depending on the troop) and archers last.

mfberg

mfberg

[Advo-san]

I see... Do archers get an attack bonus in their ranged attacks? I think I read somewhere that attack bonus doesn't affect their ranged attack only the melee!

[mfberg]

Attack bonus with iron weapons only affects melee attacks, not ranged, so it is not as useful with archers, unless you get into situations where you are throwing them into your line.

mfberg

[antisocialmunky]

Either us two for cavalry(Light and Knight) and one for infantry or two for infantry(Sword and Spear) and one for infantry.

All units will use both attack and defense when in a fight so super powered spearment are not a waste.

[yesdachi]

All troops who engage in melee combat will benefit from the weapon upgrade but the question would have to be, who would benefit the most? I think the troops specialized in attacking would, so I try to upgrade the swords first. Flankers second, like the Mounted Sergeants and other light cav. After that it would depend on what faction I was playing as and what their special units are. When I play as the English I use a lot of Billmen and they definitely benefit from the upgrade.

Knights with weapon upgrades would be sweet but they have such a demanding tech tree that by the time I finely get to the good knights I have almost won and what does it matter if they have the Metalsmiths bonus if I cant really use it.

I almost never build archers, siege, or ships in iron provinces.

Put a sharper blade in the hands of your CMAA, light cav., and special units then get ready to party like its 1230! :medievalcheers:

[BAD]

If I had 3 iron provinces I'd use one for Militia Line and Spearmen, one for swordsmen and one for the royal cavalry line. You can probably add in a few multi's because some units require multi tech lines, such as Mounted Seargeants and Kwarzmian Cavalry need spear and horse buildings.

Then again if I ever got some iron provinces for Turks they's get one for The Jannisary Heavies (spearline), one for the Hybrid archers/Futtuwa's/Jannisary Infantry/Hashishin (Bow and swordline) and one for the Ghulam cavalry and Kwarazmanians.

All depends really. :dizzy2:

[bretwalda]

If I had 3 iron provinces I'd use one for Militia Line and Spearmen, one for swordsmen and one for the royal cavalry line. You can probably add in a few multi's because some units require multi tech lines, such as Mounted Seargeants and Kwarzmian Cavalry need spear and horse buildings.

Then again if I ever got some iron provinces for Turks they's get one for The Jannisary Heavies (spearline), one for the Hybrid archers/Futtuwa's/Jannisary Infantry/Hashishin (Bow and swordline) and one for the Ghulam cavalry and Kwarazmanians.

All depends really. :dizzy2:

I can agree with you except for the JHI and JI: Turks dont start out with iron provinces, so capturing one and developing it to full armor, full weapon, Grand Mosque and Military Academy is waaaaaaaay to long IMHO... You are better of capturing 'Stambul :wink: and roll out JHI like half century earlier...

[Mujalumbo]

I think teching up for knights in an iron-resource province is a bit of a waste; I generally don't use knights to wade in and hack it out. They're more for charges into the flank or rear, or defeating enemy cavalry. As the Catholic factions, I prefer to use iron-producing provinces for the men-at-arms tree.

As the Byzantines, I use 'em for pumped up Byzantine Infantry and Varangian Gaurds.

I agree with bretwalda; teching an iron-producing province up for the Janissary line takes wayyyyyyy too long.

Off topic, I played an Early campaign, Conquest mode, and just abandoned my starting provinces. Sold all the the buildings off, jacked the taxes up and went bye-bye. Took my horde up through Georgia, across the steppe, through the northern Baltic provinces (and through the Polish and Germans forces there), held onto Saxony, and booted the Danes out of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. I jacked up the prices and put down rebellion after rebellion after rebellion and used the cash to establish a small trading fleet and trading posts in all my provinces. It was enough. Eventually, I teched Sweden up to gold-armoured, gold-weapon JHI..

Ahem, back on topic. If I have multiple iron-producing provinces, then I'll use one to produce men-at-arms units with armour and weapon upgrades, and one to produce men-at-arms units with weapon upgrades only. That way, I can better customize my armies for nothern or desert duty.

Producing weapon-upgraded spears isn't a priority; I generally use them to pin enemy forces, and in the rare instances where I have only spears, I'll just flank with, surprise-surprise, more spears!

[dgfred]

I like your ~:idea: of non-armored swords/etc for desert battles. I haven't
specialized enough to even think of that :embarassed: .

[antisocialmunky]

JHI really don't need any iron deposits. The valour they'll get from their 'evaporation' effect is more than enough.

Unless you want 9 Valour, 24 karot shield and sword JHI of course. Then by all means, grab Iberia, it's the only place you can get that type of JHI in a reasonable amount of time.

Almohads and Eggys suck compared to Turkey.

[BAD]

That's if your playing conquest I guess. I prefer to play GA and just do excursions to get what I need and then try to hold out a colony like the 3 Spanish Iron provinces. Horses for courses. . . ~:handball:

[dgfred]

That's if your playing conquest I guess. I prefer to play GA and just do excursions to get what I need and then try to hold out a colony like the 3 Spanish Iron provinces. Horses for courses. . . ~:handball:

I always play GA and use your method too ~;) . I mostly play as HRE and
take Sweden and Flanders asap for economics, Denmark for ships and
Prussia for Teutonics later on ~D .

[EatYerGreens]

All units will use both attack and defense when in a fight so super powered spearment are not a waste.

Or, at a pinch they could help keep your breath fresh!

You did mean 'spearmint', didn't you? ~;)

And I know it's not a typo because that's about the fifth time I've seen you spell it that way. At last the gag sinks in. I'm slow sometimes...

Hmm, [advert voice-over]"mentholated tips :- all of the wounding potential but with none of the nasty burning sensation". [/advert voice-over]

[bretwalda]

I like your ~:idea: of non-armored swords/etc for desert battles. I haven't
specialized enough to even think of that :embarassed: .

It is a good idea not only because of desert battles but also you can get uber troops sooner: you focus on shield in one (non-iron) province and on weapon in your iron province... And of course you retrain (but for free as it has been established!)

[ToranagaSama]

Lets say you have 3 iron provinces with the Hungarians (Carpathia, Hungary, Bohemia) or with the Spanish/Aragon (pick three :wink: )

What would you specialize on in these provinces?

I guess it is a no-no for archers and spearmen troops. So you have to choose heavy cavalry, royal cavalry, horse archers, light cavalry, sword infantry and axe (militia) infantry. Categorization is according to build requirements here - it makes more sense...

So what do you think?

Presuming one prefers a balanced army, and does not overuse Cav, then:

Archers are the last to need an Armour bonus, and IMO, Spears are the First. Spears are there to protect your Archers. The AI will prioritize upon Archers if it views weakness.

Look at it this way, Spears are your *Anvil*, they need to be rather hard, and must withstand any charge, particularly a charge by Knights right up the middle. Something the AI is prone to do; depending upon what version and what patches you have installed it can be VERY prone to Knight charges right up the middle.

Generally, in the Early to Mid -game, what you want is One or Two stacks making up your *Attack/Waring* armies. So, I'd want to supply each stack with 3-5 (depending on your battle style) units of *armoured* spears.

[JFYI, a spear unit on Wedge and Hold Formation can stave off a unit of Knights long enough for the knights to be flanked by another unit of whatever. A lot of people think Knights are the invincible uber troops, but they can be *simply* countered.]

Armouring your Knights (and General) is not a first priority either, as those units are already rather strong; and, s/b used rather *tactically* in battle.

Armouring your Swords s/b the second priority, as in my usage (a balanced army), these are your primary flanking units.

Spears to pin (the Anvil) and Swords to flank (the hammer).

Yes, amoured Swords with an *Attack* bonus used in a hammering/flanking fashion can be VERY effective.

Something to experiment with is amoured Town Watch and/or Peasants. In the hands of an experienced player this can be extremely effective used exclusively for flanking. Specifically, in situations where SPEED is of the essence! They are MUCH faster than Sword units, and when Calvalry are scarce or too costly, can be used in a similar function---human calvalry!

The priority for me, would be to armour up a full compliement of Spears and Swords to supply 2 -3 stacks, before looking toward other unit types.

Armouring up Cav isn't really a priority until well into the mid- to late- game. IMO, overbuilding on Cav and slamming them into the AI's spears and swords is an unnecessary waste and drain of Florins. Cav are expensive to build and upkeep.

[JFYI, the most effecient use of of Cav is to run down fleeing units, once the AI army has broken. Again, the *slamming* type use of Cav is inefficient---though perhaps fun. Use your Spears to *hold*/pin the enemey and your Swords and/or other fast foot units to flank. Then, when the enemy breaks charge your Cav and mow down the disorganized fleeing units, running them down from behind.

A single Cav unit used in this fashion can achieve WELL over 100 kills (virtually every battle), even more than 200!! Much better ratio and cost effective than slamming. NOTE: Knights are not the best use for this duty, as they tire too quickly.]

~ToranagaSama