View Full Version : Original STW mod for WE/MI. Any interest?
Is there any interest for modded stats for WE/MI that would duplicate original STW gameplay? The new Sengoku units, kensai, BN and NC, could be given poor stats so that they are not viable choices. The one thing that would be different is the 550 koku cost of warrior monks which were 500 koku in original STW. That may actually work out very well since monks were a bit too strong anyway. I can match the guns to what they were in STW. I don't think archers were changed, but I can check to be sure.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Orda Khan
06-16-2002, 07:09
Yes please.........Orda
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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
I'd love to see that!
also could you please note what changes they made to the units between the two version.
We have found the key to image addressing by the executable,
meaning we'll also be able to supply you with TRUE naginata for your mod...!
(providing my editing skills are up to the task...)
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 06-16-2002).]
Well I have released a patch to put the original Naginata back in,
hows the STW mod coming Puzz?
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
The new units in WE/MI are mostly for single player game anyway. BN and Kensai are not that cost effective to begin with.
I have a set of stats solely designed for single player. It uses the 1.0.3 stats for guns, and reduced the HC unit number to 12 while boosting up their combat ability.
My reasoning is as follows:
Cavalry is always confusingly represented in STW. HC was weak before 1.0.2, a bit too strong in 1.0.2 and 1.0.3. NC "felt" like what real calvary should be in Sengoku Jidai, but made too strong in 1.0.1.
While YC and CA do have their own speical charastics (YA being the fastest and has Yari bonus, CA being the mounted archer), HC and NC do NOT.
That's why I want to keep NC the way it is in 1.0.2, and remove HC out of the picture in "regular" fights. Each of the three remaining cavalry units: NC, YC and CA can play its distinct role, and none of them is too strong.
HC, with boosted stats (increased the attack to about 7-8), is now truly consisted of heavily armed and armored elite mounted soldiers, fitting as bodyguards of Daimyos and prestige generals (try to "assign" HC heirs or "train" HC generals only, adding a bit role playing here). But their small number (only 12 men for other generals and 11 for the Daimyos) ensures that HC will never be a super unit. (I tested them against AI units on normal setting, and new HC has difficulty against most of the units except for guns, archers). This would also make AI Daimyos harder to kill, making the game more interesting.
How does it sound, folks?
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/100war_knight4.gif
[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 07-08-2002).]
Kraellin
07-09-2002, 00:55
gothmog,
yes, one of the things i suggested during the 1.02 mods was to make HC the daimyo's unit by making it only 12 men. it's his personal escort guard. very tough, highly trained, high morale, but few men....the elite guard. it would also tend to have the fastest horses, thus enabling the daimyo to get where he needs to get to in a hurry. and you then do what you're suggesting with making nag cav like heavy horse.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Gothmog,
can you make your stat variant avaiable for download?
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
Quote Originally posted by barocca:
Gothmog,
can you make your stat variant avaiable for download?
[/QUOTE]
Sure.
I can also make available a file that might disable the AI's ability to construct Geisha house. Not sure what would happen if the human player constructed Geisha house or produced Geisha unit though.
Then again, I need a bit more time for the testing before publishing the stats though.
I also have some questions, wondering if you guys can help me:
1) Meanwhile I am thinking of LOWERING the new HC's morale, so that the AI's Daimyo can retreat more often. But not too much for the obvious reason.
Note that even when the commander of single player leave the battle field, the remaining troop can still enjoy the COMMANDING BONUS.
2) As often observed in single player, the AI's troops are too easy to "chicken out", sometimes an entire army might retreat without a fight.
The easy fix, of course, is to increase the morale of the combat units. But to what extend? Over doing it might virtually turn the morale system off, which completely defeat the purpose of using tactics such as flanking.
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So you see, both questions are related somehow. It's about morale balance. I know some of your guys have done extensive research on the morale system, wondering if anyone can educate me on this topic.
[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 07-09-2002).]
That sounds like a very nice idea to break out the HC as a 12 man elite unit as Kraellin/Gothmog suggest and let the NC fill the role that the HC had. You would have to boot the combat specs because the small size has a great effect on combat results. I don't know if this would fit into an STW mod, but it might because the HC in STW was way too weak anyway. The NC would be a nice anti-monk unit which was lacking in STW, and it would still loose to YS. I do remember the NC rush was a problem in WE/MI v1.00 so it might need some adjustment. I'd like to set it up like that unless STW fundamentalists don't want it.
barocca,
I still have to do the gun tests to determine the STW parameters for them. I'll try to get to it this week. A computer virus interrupted my work on this, and I still have to checkout the other machine to see if it's infected. I have all the other unit parameters set except the reductions to BN and kensai. A nice -24 morale will cause them to rout immediately.
Gothmog,
I think the trouble with the campaign ai is that it doesn't go for enough upgrades and tends to turn out lots of low honor units. After a while your units are so much better that the ai just runs away. Doc has a nice campaign mod were he gave the ai clans a better tech level at the start. It's pretty nice, but the invasion thresholds might be too low which causes the ai clans to beat themselves up with constant attacks on one another. I don't remember if Doc raised these theshholds, but it's easy to set them back to the original levels.
That's a good idea about lowering the ai daimyo morale to make him less aggressive, but I think some of that aggression is built into the ai for the daimyo himself. I would try morale of 0 to start and work down from there in steps of 4 points. The range of the system is -24 (routing) to +18 (impetuous). I don't know where the actual saturation point is on the top end, but we know that WE/MI v1.00 had +12 morale added to all units for online play and that basically removed morale from the game.
Can you actually adjust the morale of daimyos in the campaign or are you talking about custom and historical battles only where you can choose the 12 man HC as the taisho and set the morale on that unit in the troopstats file?
MizuYuuki ~~~
Puzz3D and other Mod geeks:
Great news! I set the HC morale to NEGATIVE 24 and started a late Sengoku campaign at normal setting.
All my HC generals started wavering right away, and the Daimyo was uncertain.
I haven't tried the AI daimyo yet. But they should work the same way. Apparently Daimyo is treated as a normal HC soldier with high individual honor.
Meanwhile I have loads of work to do, but maybe we can work together to find out the best HC morale level for Daimyo and Taisho.
I'll post my preliminary setting in a couple of days.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/rose-knight1.gif
[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 07-10-2002).]
Wavesword
07-11-2002, 00:38
Bulding.txt should also be modified so the AI has more focus. Perhaps if the upper rungs on the tech ladders have a relatively high weighting the AI will be less prone to duplication of buildings- which leads to high concentrations of particular unit types without many upgrades. Does the unit choice file or anti units have any effect on building choices?
Kraellin
07-11-2002, 01:27
wavesword,
see my re-post of target's explanations of these things. he covered a lot of stuff in that post and i think that info is in there. it shld still be in this forum.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
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