Damn, the drinking laws in the USA are strict

[Duke Malcolm]

I recently returned from a lengthy holiday in the US, which was very nice, if not too hot, but one of the downfalls must have been the fact that I was not legally allowed to drink, being under the age of 21.
We are allowed to drink from the age of 5 year, as long as it is in private (not a public house, off-licence, or on the streets) and there is an adult present.
What do you US folks think about not being able to drink (legally) at 21?

Oh, and gambling. You aren't allowed to gamble in public either, apparently, in the US. I do it often in public here, even in school. My chemistry teacher let us use his classroom for a poker game, and we played pontoon/blackjack on a school trip.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Oh, and gambling. You aren't allowed to gamble in public either, apparently, in the US. I do it often in public here, even in school. My chemistry teacher let us use his classroom for a poker game, and we played pontoon/blackjack on a school trip.

I used to gamble all the time in High School, me and my mates had a poker circle going.

I imagine that the drinking age differs from state to state, does it not? Personally, I think our drinking age is too high-we should drop it to sixteen, to bring it in line with smoking and being able to leave home.

[bmolsson]

I think they should raise the age for Americans. Their large ego is just TOO large with to much alcohol under the hat..... ~;)

[Al Khalifah]

Lower the drinking age to 18 and make it 100% strict. Always ask for ID if in doubt.

[scooter_the_shooter]

The law is a joke I have seen 16 year olds drinking. If they want it they will find a way.

[KukriKhan]

It is a matter for individual States to decide.

BUT (you knew there'd be a 'but', right?) the Fed Gov't uses the stick of federal highway money since 1984 to 'encourage' States to comply with 21 year old drinking law.

During Viet Nam (and the draft) drinking and voting age was dropped to 18 from 21 (old enough to fight and die? Old enough to vote & drink). Late 70's & early 80's saw a drmatic increase in drink-drive fatalities in 18-22 year olds. So they raised it again.

Gambling? Yeah...outlawed in most States because of its connection to the Mob (Mafia). Small-time local, informal betting usually gets overlooked.

[Strike For The South]

Ya those laws are spineless same with the gambling laws if you and your buddies want to no one will stop you

[Moros]

haha strange Americans 21 hihi...
glad I live in the country of beer and Chocolate...and close to the Netherlands counrty of prostitution and drugs ~;)

[Sjakihata]

In Denmark you can legally purchase alcohol from the stores at age 16, and drink in bars/clubs at age 18. A lot of young ones in Denmark dring. It is common to have been drunk at 12-14 years. This it too early in my opinion. Danish youths are the ones consuming most alchohol in europe.

If this is connected to the laws, they should be stricter, because I dont find it advantageous that children at 12 drink.

That said, I think 21 is just too strict.

[Don Corleone]

The major difference between the US and most of Europe, beyond the drinking age, is the driving age. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to drive at age 16 in most European countries. What's more, even when you have a license, there's nowhere near the traffic on the roads. Automobile travel is an integral part of our way of life. Banning 16 year olds from driving just isn't practical. Alcohol doesn't play as large a part in our way of life as it does in yours, and therefore is easier to control/ ban for youngsters.

[xemitg]

In many states the drinking age used to be 18 but the federal government threatened to cut off their funding to those states unless they changed the drinking age to 21. My state government could change the age to 18 tomorrow if they wanted but would lose federal funding. Nobody really pays attention to the drinking laws.....

[rasoforos]

No such limit can potentially work.

First of all its so easy to violate it.

Secondly it makes a thrill out of binge drinking and alcohol consumption.



So are these laws more or less 'legal fossils' at the moment?

[Don Corleone]

I don't know that I buy the logic that making alcohol inaccessible to minors is the cause of binge drinking. It's very accessible to minors in the UK, as they can begin going to pubs at (is it 15 or 16?) and there's lots of binge drinking there.

[rasoforos]

I don't know that I buy the logic that making alcohol inaccessible to minors is the cause of binge drinking. It's very accessible to minors in the UK, as they can begin going to pubs at (is it 15 or 16?) and there's lots of binge drinking there.


Yes because it becomes a thrill to young people here too. They think it something really great and forbidden and they try to obtain alcohol any way the can. The fact that going to a pub for a night out means that you only have a window of opportunity of 1 to 1.5 hours to drink doesnt help either ( pubs close at 11.00)...

Still its the same, the thrill of the limit and the hour restriction have imbedded binge drinking into the psyche of a lot of young people.

[Ronin]

The major difference between the US and most of Europe, beyond the drinking age, is the driving age. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to drive at age 16 in most European countries. What's more, even when you have a license, there's nowhere near the traffic on the roads. Automobile travel is an integral part of our way of life. Banning 16 year olds from driving just isn't practical. Alcohol doesn't play as large a part in our way of life as it does in yours, and therefore is easier to control/ ban for youngsters.

over here it´s 18 year for both driving and drinking....altough the drinking limit isn´t enforced in the least...unless you go to a really high-end bar...and there they will turn kids away.


as for the traffic argument ha!!....i live in the car-traffic hell of the western world...highest fatality rates in europe by far....some people say that they have been to war so they think they are tough!..HA!..i laugh in your general direction...i have driven without stop from the north of my country all the way to the algarve in the south...that´s the equivalent to a campaign in iraq at least ~D

now seriously....the average portuguese is a complete nutjob once it get´s in a car...i´ve picked up foreign friend from the airport and driven them across town to my house....when we arrived there they were allmost literally kissing the ground in jubilation for being alive ....i don´t notice it anymore tough ~;)

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

in the U.S. it's harder to buy alcohol if under 21/uncertainty over your age than it is in the U.K.

What's frustrating is when you're in your mid 20s (like myself), you don't have your ID and they decide that they are not going to sell you alcohol because you don't look like you are 70. Seriously, it seems like half the places you can buy alcohol have a policy of "if you weren't in WW2 then we won't sell you beer without an ID". Then you get paranoid that you look really ancient when you don't get ID-ed at somewhere that has a more lax policy (e.g. the sort of establishment that just wants a correct answer: *to pre-pubescent kid* "How old are you?"
*Squeaky cracking up voice* "21, sir"
"just have to be careful about the kids mr customer sir, enjoy your beer").
I now just get the girlfriend to buy because she looks about 18 and so ALWAYS gets ID-ed at law obsessed places and doesn't get the paranoia that I do if we go to one of the non-ID places.

[Steppe Merc]

The drinking laws are stupid. If you can vote and join the army, you should be able to drink.
Heck, when I go to bars to see bands with my dad, they often even card him, and he's no youngster.
And it's not like people my age can't get booze. It's just more difficult, and causes more people to get busted (though pot contributes to that too).

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

SteppeMerc

I was at a bar with my girlfriend's dad: he got ID-ed with his white hair and moustache and his weatherworn carpenter's face. He's in his early fifities and they still ID-ed him.

[Moros]

hihi and that while I drunk my first beer when I was 5 or 4 years old!

driving at your 16th? I don't know, it takes lots of responsibilities. While being drunk isn't well as long as you're not driving anyway.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't know that I buy the logic that making alcohol inaccessible to minors is the cause of binge drinking. It's very accessible to minors in the UK, as they can begin going to pubs at (is it 15 or 16?) and there's lots of binge drinking there.

I think binge drinking has to do with the attitude of many kids that when they drink, they are going to get drunk, not just have a beer or two.

Crazed Rabbit

[Steppe Merc]

I never understood that myself. Why do people want to get drunk often? I understand social drinking, or getting drunk if your girlfriend dumped you or something, but not drinking for the sole reason of getting drunk.
But Rabbit is right, that does seem to be the goal of drinking for most folks my age.

[Ianofsmeg16]

I used to gamble all the time in High School, me and my mates had a poker circle going.
Thats nothing BKS before school ended me and my mates had an underground table tennis league going on, nobody found out either!
Yeah the drinking laws suck in America. But, like over here, Everybody gets around it by finding an older guy to buy booze for you. Or what i do and use thios dude who shoplifts everything ~:cool:
EDIT: @ Crazed Rabbit, my friends always get drunk for the sole reason of getting drunk, but i'm the guy who's dad gave him whiskey at five so eleven years later i can handle my drink, but i'm also the guy who stays sober and looks after all the drunk chicks ~D

[lars573]

To be fair you can get a license at 16 but it has to have your parents signature. Without that you can't get a license on your own till your 18. But here in the liberal socialist north you can drink at 19 in every province/territiry except Quebec and Manitoba, where it's 18. So most senior high school tribs are to Montreal or Quebec city. As half of the class will be 18 and there fore can get boozed up while there.

[Redleg]

in the U.S. it's harder to buy alcohol if under 21/uncertainty over your age than it is in the U.K.

What's frustrating is when you're in your mid 20s (like myself), you don't have your ID and they decide that they are not going to sell you alcohol because you don't look like you are 70. Seriously, it seems like half the places you can buy alcohol have a policy of "if you weren't in WW2 then we won't sell you beer without an ID". Then you get paranoid that you look really ancient when you don't get ID-ed at somewhere that has a more lax policy (e.g. the sort of establishment that just wants a correct answer: *to pre-pubescent kid* "How old are you?"
*Squeaky cracking up voice* "21, sir"
"just have to be careful about the kids mr customer sir, enjoy your beer").
I now just get the girlfriend to buy because she looks about 18 and so ALWAYS gets ID-ed at law obsessed places and doesn't get the paranoia that I do if we go to one of the non-ID places.

Do you know why many places that sell Achocal in the United States take such measures?

When I was a young man and needed a little extra money - the vice squad for the town I used to live in - paid individuals under the age of 21 to go and attempt to buy from places that sold achocal. If they sold you achocal - you take it to the police officer who was just outside - and they go in an ticket that establishment. If the establishment gets enough tickets - the city government removes their liquor license. No license - no business for many of them.

Hell I felt like such the hypocrit even then - but hell I needed to get myself some extra beer drinking money. ~D

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Ian, I used to use fake IDs.
None of this fancy crap either: we'd make them up on the computer, laminate them and use them. they were awful, absolutely terrible and unbelievable but they worked so well.
Give it a shot, make an ID as a managing director of some big company or other. If you get caught it's hilarious as you can always make a sharp exit.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

redleg: that's officially how things are meant to work in the U.K. as well.


Oh, you narc you.

Did you ever use fake IDs? I've worked in a fair few bars and some people are just so frustrating with their IDs: they look real, they look like proper proof of age cards but the customers just don't look old enough.
I sold them booze as I figured the cards were a valid excuse if we got caught selling to underagers.

[Proletariat]

What's frustrating is when you're in your mid 20s (like myself), you don't have your ID and they decide that they are not going to sell you alcohol because you don't look like you are 70.

They can be real jackasses over here about this. The other day I went to buy some grocerys and also some beer. I had my friend's brother drive me since I was a little tipsy. The cashier asked him for his ID too, and since he was only 20, they said they couldn't sell it to either of me. After a few icy death stares cashier-wards, I dropped the rest of the groceries off in the car and asked my driver friend to just wait in the car.

I went back into the store, brought the beer to another register, and had almost checked out when some manager I had never seen before said they couldn't sell me the alcohol for 24 hours. I tried using my org-honed debate tactics with him ("What? Are you f*cking kidding me? This is a joke, right?") to no avail.

:furious3:

I'd like to not shop there again after this, but they're the only store around here that sells Duvel. *sigh*

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Prole: back home you can always pay junkies to steal it for you.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Ian, I used to use fake IDs.
None of this fancy crap either: we'd make them up on the computer, laminate them and use them. they were awful, absolutely terrible and unbelievable but they worked so well.
Give it a shot, make an ID as a managing director of some big company or other. If you get caught it's hilarious as you can always make a sharp exit.
Well i did always find the Welsh as a bunch of Troublemakers, i mean i only have to take a look at my brother!!! ~D (joke)
Fake ID's are cool but it works better having a brother who has an awesome girlfriend that happens to be 18 ~:cheers: she hot aswell, i'm gonna have to get her drunk one night ~:grouphug: Also ID's are too much trouble for somebody as lazy and un-photogenic as myself ~:cheers:

[Red Harvest]

The U.S. alcohol laws are absurd in many ways. The ultimate folly was Prohibition of course... The "21" restriction essentially criminalizes an activity that the majority partake in. I can't find any good logic for encouraging folks to disregard a law by making it impractical. As has been noted, it has standardized to 21 by use of Federal Highway money as an incentive. The states can set their own limits, but they lose access to certain Federal funds if they do. I'm for tough drinking and driving laws, but not for the artificially high drinking age.

What are really funny are state, county, city, and even specific city precinct restrictions on alcohol sales. There is 3.2 beer, sales only by restaurants, sales only by "club memberships", no sales on Sunday, dry counties that really are not, state run liquor stores, and liquor stores being force to close very early (9 PM for example) while you can still go buy booze at the grocery store or filling station.

And even more interesting is working in producing and selling denatured alcohol to industry...lots or rules for that. Some states still have their own separate industrial alcohol regulating authority, such as Virginia (motto: "let's add an extra level of extraneous regulation to show the Feds they have nothing on us.") So you get to duplicate the headache of shipping permits and such for both a state and the feds.

Fortunately, the restrictions/prohibitions on home brewing were eased some decades ago. So now it is possible to brew superior beer at home.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Drinking is stupid, drinking laws are stupid.

[Byzantine Prince]

It's 18 in Alberta, and this is the most consevative province in Canada. ~:eek:

Also driving used to be 14 and now it's 16. Damn binge drinking maniac 14 years olds ruined it for all of us. :furious3:

21 is insane, you have to be the biggest nerd ever born not to have gotten drunk at least once till you're 21. You practically a senior citizen by then! ~D

[Red Harvest]

They can be real jackasses over here about this. The other day I went to buy some grocerys and also some beer. I had my friend's brother drive me since I was a little tipsy. The cashier asked him for his ID too, and since he was only 20, they said they couldn't sell it to either of me. After a few icy death stares cashier-wards, I dropped the rest of the groceries off in the car and asked my driver friend to just wait in the car.

I went back into the store, brought the beer to another register, and had almost checked out when some manager I had never seen before said they couldn't sell me the alcohol for 24 hours. I tried using my org-honed debate tactics with him ("What? Are you f*cking kidding me? This is a joke, right?") to no avail.

:furious3:

I'd like to not shop there again after this, but they're the only store around here that sells Duvel. *sigh*

That is just stupid of them. I guess they wanted you to drive drunk over to them instead. :dizzy2: ~:eek: This is good example of a system defeating itself.

My favorite ID story was back in college after I turned 21. I bought my groceries and beer at the same place every week. I had quite a few groceries as I cooked for myself and my fiance. Most checkers knew me after awhile and quit ID'ing. Then one day I got a brain dead morality enforcer...she ID'ed me, which is fine...then said she couldn't sell to me. ~:confused:
So I ask, "Why not?"
She says, "You aren't old enough." ~:eek:
I reply, "I'm 21, how old do you want me to be?"
Puzzled look on the middle-aged checker's face. We looked over my ID in detail together, made sure she got the year right...she still says I'm not old enough. ~:confused:
Now we are starting to draw some attention and holding up the line. I've got a bunch of groceries and I'm not goin' anywhere until the matter is resolved. Finally she yells over to the manager, "How old do they have to be to buy beer?"
The manager straightened her out and she said, "Oh" still looking at me as if had done something wrong.
As I picked up my stuff I was muttering "... f***** imbeciles that don't know the basics of their job..." :furious3:

[Ianofsmeg16]

HAHAHA that is a f*****g hilarious story, did the woman hear you?

[Red Harvest]

Did you ever use fake IDs? I've worked in a fair few bars and some people are just so frustrating with their IDs: they look real, they look like proper proof of age cards but the customers just don't look old enough.

When I first went to college I didn't need a fake ID. A year later the climate of the country was different, so a fake ID became a necessity. I converted the year on an old license using some really good contact paper and careful blending. I looked like I was about 14 in the old D.L. photo, but it worked for 21. Later they made the licenses harder to fake by putting "Minor" all over them, but by then I didn't need it anymore.

[Proletariat]

That is just stupid of them. I guess they wanted you to drive drunk over to them instead. :dizzy2: ~:eek: This is good example of a system defeating itself.


I brought this very point up, at first diplomatically. I just got the "it's policy" response. As I walked out I told them in 24 hours I'd drive myself there rip roaring drunk (of course, I didn't).



As I picked up my stuff I was muttering "... f***** imbeciles that don't know the basics of their job..." :furious3:

Jeez. That lady must've been about three genes from being a monkey. Whatever gives her her sanctimonious, emotional high for the day, I guess.

[Red Harvest]

HAHAHA that is a f*****g hilarious story, did the woman hear you?

Oh definitely...it was for her benefit after all. Those behind me in line probably also heard it.

[Samurai Waki]

Well... Cashiers are afraid to sell alcohol to minors because it might be one of those 1 in 1000 chances the government is setting up a sting operation. The Cashier gets a 500$ Fine, gets fired, and the Store gets a 1000-1500$ Fine.
Drinking Laws are petty and rediculous in America, thats why I just get my dad or brothers to buy it for me. Won't matter in 3 months anyway because I'll be 21, and it also doesn't matter to me, because I live in the UK so I've been 100% Legal for the last 2 (almost 3) years. Also there is no reinforcement of the laws in the Caymans, very few cars, lots of High Security Homes...extremely low crime, why have a drinking age at all?

[Don Corleone]

I brought this very point up, at first diplomatically. I just got the "it's policy" response. As I walked out I told them in 24 hours I'd drive myself there rip roaring drunk (of course, I didn't).



Jeez. That lady must've been about three genes from being a monkey. Whatever gives her her sanctimonious, emotional high for the day, I guess.

You should do what I did in a similar situation. My wife is 21, actually, she was 28 at the time, but didn't have her ID on her. I did. We were buying a couple of bottles of wine, along with our 2-week grocery list (so we were pushing about $300). The cashier who was some cranky old git says he won't sell the wine, because my wife cannot produce her ID. So I said "What if she runs out to the car to get it". He says no, we were on his personal 'do not sell list' for the time being. Well, too bad for this moron, because I'm a ruthless bastard, and a fairly creative one to boot when I want to be....

I reached into one of the bags and pulled out our mouthwash. I said "there's alcohol in this, you better take it back". He said "that's okay, you can buy that". I said "you didn't hear me, take it off our bill". I then proceeded to pull out a loaf of bread, some vinegar, and a bunch of other things, one at a time, and made him take them off our bill. After about 9 items, I looked over at the manager, who was watching the whole exchange and said "aah, forget it. Keep the whole lot. I'll just go to Harris Teeter across the street". That's the other grocery store in that neighborhood. Manager turned purple, but to his credit, he didn't say a word. The old cashier started cussing at us until the manager told us (edit: erh, him) to stop. My wife was mortified, but God do I love being a prick for the right reasons... ~D

[Redleg]

redleg: that's officially how things are meant to work in the U.K. as well.


Oh, you narc you.

Did you ever use fake IDs? I've worked in a fair few bars and some people are just so frustrating with their IDs: they look real, they look like proper proof of age cards but the customers just don't look old enough.
I sold them booze as I figured the cards were a valid excuse if we got caught selling to underagers.


When I was a young man - and not the honest citizen I am now - I used a very good fake id.

Fake Id - selling to minors would still get you a ticket in the states.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The thing that irritates me most about drinking laws is that since people are going to drink, they drive them from safe drinking environments into unsafe ones. It's obviously far better for everyone to have teens drink in pubs or clubs-if they get utterly totalled, the bartender won't serve them any more, and there's medical attention available if they do something silly like fall over and hurt themselves. However, drinking laws prevent this, and force teens to go to deserted parks and such, where they can drink rampantly, but in a far less safe environment. This benefits nobody.

[Ronin]

21 is insane, you have to be the biggest nerd ever born not to have gotten drunk at least once till you're 21. You practically a senior citizen by then! ~D


eerrrr.......*adjusts glasses and pocket protector*

i´m 23.....so i best be going to get my walking cane. ~D

[Ianofsmeg16]

You should do what I did in a similar situation. My wife is 21, actually, she was 28 at the time, but didn't have her ID on her. I did. We were buying a couple of bottles of wine, along with our 2-week grocery list (so we were pushing about $300). The cashier who was some cranky old git says he won't sell the wine, because my wife cannot produce her ID. So I said "What if she runs out to the car to get it". He says no, we were on his personal 'do not sell list' for the time being. Well, too bad for this moron, because I'm a ruthless bastard, and a fairly creative one to boot when I want to be....

I reached into one of the bags and pulled out our mouthwash. I said "there's alcohol in this, you better take it back". He said "that's okay, you can buy that". I said "you didn't hear me, take it off our bill". I then proceeded to pull out a loaf of bread, some vinegar, and a bunch of other things, one at a time, and made him take them off our bill. After about 9 items, I looked over at the manager, who was watching the whole exchange and said "aah, forget it. Keep the whole lot. I'll just go to Harris Teeter across the street". That's the other grocery store in that neighborhood. Manager turned purple, but to his credit, he didn't say a word. The old cashier started cussing at us until the manager told us to stop. My wife was mortified, but God do I love being a prick for the right reasons... ~D
Don you rebel ~:eek:
Some guys can be total pricks about selling laws, about two weeks ago i tried to buy a 12 rated DVD (i'm fifteen, nearly 16) and the guy on the counter said.
"hmmm do you know what this is?"
"Roast Chicken" i replied, i wasnt in a good mood
"this is rated twelve, where is you proof of age?" (bear in mind i am an inch of six foot)
"For gods sake cant you see i'm over twelve? I'm fifteen, or are you completely blind?"
In the end he wouldnt sell it to me and the manager came out and had a go at me for misleading his staff, in the end i got pissed off, rang up my mother told her to say my D.O.B down the fone, the manager said alright you can buy it. I said " Nah i dont want it anymore" and put it back on the shelf.

p.s i then proceeded to buy it in the shop down the stree and walked back into the WHSmiths parading my new DVD to my friends saying "Wow i got it cheaply at HMV, no hassle either" the manager strode over too me and told me to piss off, i called him a prick and he said "I'll prick you in a minute!" which i thougt was funny

[Samurai Waki]

The first time I got drunk was quite accidental. Being about 5 years old. My Dad left a glass of Fine Scotch (don't remember the brand) on the table, and I didn't know what it was... but I saw my dad drinking it so I thought it would be good. I drank about 1/2 of it, and I must say it wasn't that bad, even for a 5 year old. But then my mom and dad took me to the hospital (because they thought I was so little I might get alcohol poison) and I had to get my stomach pumped. So not only was I completely tanked and scared out of my mind, but I also had a forced hangover all in the same day.

[Blodrast]

RedHarvest and Don: hilarious ! It's absolutely stupid, if you stop to think about it - and it's hard to believe things like that are for real... and nothing is done about it...

I was extremely pissed when I was in Virginia at some point, was about 24 (almost 25), and went to buy some booze for a birthday party. They asked me for 3 (three!!) pieces of ID - I just blinked at them for 5-10 seconds, couldn't believe what I was hearing...
Luckily, I had them - but boy was I annoyed... but Don - I'll keep your example in mind from now on :P (sadly, these guys were liquor store only, weren't carrying anything else, and there was nothing else around...)

[KukriKhan]

Closed for excessive, repeated, and quoted profanity (no f word, in any form is allowed) and for self-incriminating posts on law-breaking.