Bill Clinton is EVIL EVIL EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!! put him in jail NOW

[scooter_the_shooter]

What do you democrats think of this http://www.ak47world.com/clinton.html this is downright treasonous... read all of it he should be in jail.(there is more than one story on that page)


(I would quote but there are pictures just click on the link)

[Goofball]

Please quote it. I can't access the site from work as it appears to be a "weapons" site.

[scooter_the_shooter]

yeah it is a gun site i was looking for info about a rifle



Pictured above in the Whitehouse, in a photo that was obtained from the Chinese news agency Xinhua (that never appeared in the Clinton-loving U.S. media) shown is the 'lying piece of scum', otherwise known as Bill Clinton, sitting in the Whitehouse with Red Chinese Army General Zhang Wannian, who was also the primary Chinese Army Official (nicknamed, "The Butcher of Bejing") who ordered the slaughter of Chinese dissident students at Tiannenmen square, that most of the Clinton-loving news media also 'forgot' to tell you about!

In addition, the Clinton-Loving news media has also failed to tell of Clinton's treachery, that would seem to far OVERSHADOW Watergate, or anything Richard Nixon ever did, and how Bill Clinton took a CASH BRIBE on February 6, 1996 (in the Whitehouse) for an import permit for the May 1996 smuggling of $8 million dollars worth of FULLY-AUTOMATIC Chinese AK-47s via the China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO) ship the 'EMPRESS PHOENIX", that was uncovered by an ATF undercover agent named Gary Hipple, and later code-named "OPERATION DRAGONFIRE", and how close the FBI, ATF, and U.S. Customs investigators came to PUTTING BILL CLINTON IN JAIL!!!

SPECIAL REPORT

Part Three: Gunrunners and Spies

The Slow Boat From China

By David Phinney

ABCNEWS.com

When federal agents busted smugglers bringing 2,000 Chinese AK-47 assault rifles in May of 1996 through Oakland, Calif., critics of free trade with China seized the moment.

China can't be trusted to abide by U.S. laws, they cried.

Smuggling machine guns into this country is, to put it mildly, a major roadblock in our relationship, said Rep. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., who said the event forced him to reconsider U.S.-China trade relations.

Indicted suspects included leading U.S. representatives from two of Chinas key weapons firms-the gargantuan Chinese defense firm Norinco, and the People's Liberation Army-owned Polytechnologies.

What's more, the ship carrying the arms was the Chinese owned and operated COSCO, the China Ocean Shipping Co. Congressional investigators believe that the shipper has also delivered nuclear-weapon components to Pakistan and chemical and biological weapons to North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Syria.

this impacts the safety of every American citizen,” said Rep. Randy Cunningham, R-Calif., while speaking on the House floor.

He told Congress that he had been briefed with an FBI report finding that COSCO deploys industrial and national security spies around the world.

All three Chinese companies deny any involvement with any smuggling operations, but the allegations from politicians and the media persist.

Distrust Continues

Critics again attacked COSCO in March after the shipper applied for a permit to build a cargo terminal at the decommissioned Long Beach Naval Station in California. Local officials, eager to expand commercial port activity, jumped at the opportunity and prepared to invest $200 million in developing a 145-acre site.

The COSCO situation became so politically uncomfortable that the husband of Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., investment banker Richard Blum, confessed to having a minor financial interest in COSCO, but quickly pledged to donate all profits to charity. (Yeah, sure you did 'Slick Willie'...) It is difficult to be married to a public figure today and carry out business, he told The Wall Street Journal

COSCO's bidding for the project ignited an outcry from local talk radio and cable stations, while members of Congress-including both California senators-demanded a report on possible breaches of national security from the Chinese shipper. Other members of Congress crafted legislation to prevent the move, fearful that COSCO would use the terminal as a base for intelligence operations and smuggling.

If COSCO receives the permit, its new neighbor would be the Sea Launch Company, an international consortium now developing an advanced deep-ocean rocket launch and assembly system for the Pentagon.

We can't really separate an enterprise like COSCO from the Chinese intelligence apparatus. We can do that with Western shippers but not with a Chinese organization, says Asian policy analyst Richard Fisher with the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. 10 years down the road we discover that the facility has been used for espionage, it will be too late.

Paranoid Bunk
Yvonne Avila, Port of Long Beach spokeswoman, reacts to such fears as paranoid bunk. COSCO operates in seven other U.S. seaports and has been doing business in Long Beach for 16 years.
It's the same company and the same ships and the same cargo ever since 1979 she says. No one has ever flinched and suddenly it has become a national issues not like we were hiding something.
COSCO has never been indicted for running weapons. (Only because Clinton forbid Reno from doing it...)
Trail to the White House
Nevertheless, opponents weave a web of conspiracy of espionage and intrigue leading all the way to the White House and its association with Johnny Chung, a Chinese American businessman from California.

Chung, who was reported to have introduced a COSCO representative to President Clinton last year, gave $366,000 to the Democratic National Committee during the 1996 campaign. The DNC later returned the money out of fear that it might have been obtained illegally from foreign sources. Chung and his donations are now part of broader fund-raising investigations by the Justice Department and Congress.

The Defense Department subsequently claimed there were no national security concerns, and Long Beach officials deny that the White House played any role in making a deal with COSCO despite several meetings with the president. In late April, the COSCO proposal was turned down for environmental reasons and pleas to preserve the heritage of the former military base.

And if that didn't stop them, I'm sure Congress would have, boasted one Republican aide. All this happened even though COSCO has been docking at Long Beach since 1981. Its business represents 25 percent of all U.S. trade with China.

Check out this much ignored (by Dan Rather, Ted Koppel, and the rest of the Clinton-Loving News Media in 1996) 'GLIMPSE' of Bill Clinton's Chinese AK-47 smuggling 'FRIENDS'

ANATOMY OF A STING http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,135999,00.html

By MICHAEL S. SERRILL

Jun. 3, 1996

Maybe it was his Runyonesque swagger, or the 6-ft. 6-in., 350-lb. former football linebacker who served as his bodyguard, or his expert craft, which included hiding a key in a potted plant. Whatever the case, Gary Hipple, a U.S. Customs agent based in San Francisco, convinced a group of Chinese arms dealers that he was a Mafia big shot who was in the market to buy guns for drug rings and street gangs. By the time the undercover deal was over, Hipple and his partner, a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent who also posed as a mobster, had persuaded the brokers to smuggle 2,000 fully automatic Chinese-government-made AK-47s into the U.S.

Last week (May 1996), the charade ended with an explosion of headlines (what 'explosion' of headlines?), as Customs and ATF agents arrested seven people for illegal gunrunning. U.S. Attorney Michael Yamaguchi described the sting operation as the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in U.S. history! (Why did 60 minutes and Nightline ignore this story???)

The diplomatically sensitive source of the guns: two state-owned arms manufacturers in China, Poly Technologies and Norinco. The president of Poly Technologies, a defense corporation controlled by the People's Liberation Army, is He Ping, the son-in-law of Deng Xiaoping.

The operation began in 1994, when an informant told Hipple that a Taiwanese businessman named Hammond Ku was looking for ways to circumvent Customs. Hipple arranged a meeting and to impress Ku took along fellow agent and former Green Bay Packer Byron Braggs. Ku allegedly set up a test: he had a suitcase of weapons parts flown from China to the San Francisco airport. Hipple duly carried the case past Customs and stashed it in a locker, telling Ku he would find the key in a nearby potted plant.

With that, the sting was on. According to a 34-page criminal complaint filed in San Francisco's U.S. District Court in May of 1996, Hipple helped Ku smuggle in 20,000 machine-gun stands (bipods, you journalistic 'geek'...). Ku then told the agent to fax his weapons wish list to Ku's secretary, using code words: "apples" for automatic weapons; "Alpha Kings" for AK-47s; "poppers" for grenades. Later, a Florida ATF agent was introduced to Ku as an arms dealer interested in machine guns. Eventually the undercover team negotiated an order for 2,000 AK-47s. They paid Ku and his associates $700,000 in cash and wire transfers to Beijing and Hong Kong bank accounts.

Ku made clear that he was acting as a middleman for Chinese arms dealers, including Robert Ma, head of U.S. sales for Poly Technologies, and Richard Chen, U.S. representative for Norinco. It was Ma, according to last week's complaint, who arranged for shipment of the rifles. They arrived in San Francisco aboard a Chinese freighter on March 18, 1996.

Once the transaction was completed, according to court papers, Ku reported that his contacts at Norinco were eager to continue. Customs agents say Ku offered a variety of larger arms, including surface-to-air missiles that he boasted "could take out a 747." Customs didn't have any more money to spend but delayed making arrests. "We were trying to lure the large business figures [in China] to the States," says Rollin Klink, head of Customs in San Francisco.

Officials finally sprung the trap after learning that the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times were on to the sting. (Gee, it's not like Bill Clinton ordered a 'LEAK' in order to COMPROMISE THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION, RIGHT...)

Still, one important figure, Ma, is at large and may have escaped to China. (Of course Clinton made sure Ma escaped, as Ma would tie Clinton to this $8 million dollar AK-47 deal...) Ku and Chen are under arrest, along with several Chinese and American collaborators.

That is, until Clinton deliberately 'compromised' the investigation, and how America's 'First Black President', as Bill Clinton likes to refer to himself, but who seems more like "AMERICA's 1st RED PRESIDENT", as in a FULL-BLOODED COMMUNIST 'OPERATIVE', who forced Janet Reno to COVER-UP how he received LARGE SUMS of CHINESE 'donated' U.S. CASH ($100 bills stuffed into duffel bags), again that MOST of the Clinton-loving news media neglected to tell the public about!

For those who doubt just how much Bill Clinton was 'compromised' by Communist Party Officials, why won't Bill Clinton tell what he was doing at the Kremlin's 'KGB HOTSPOT', the Intourist Hotel in Moscow in 1969, a hotel that was commonly known for supplying foreign tourists with first-class Russian prostitutes?

Could the Russians and the KGB have made some interesting videotapes of a perverse Bill Clinton with one, or more of these prostitutes, who might have been supplied by the KGB to someone whom the Soviets sought to recruit to enter the American political arena, as possibly a Governor, or eventually as a Presidential candidate?

Check out this interesting site with info on the former Soviet Intourist Hotel http://funreports.com/2002/04/25/28009.html

Why do Bill and Hillary Clinton refuse to talk of how James Riaddy and his Lippo Group (which means 'Happy' in Chinese, as the Chinese were very happy with Bill Clinton's treachery...), whose real name is James Lee, and is a known member of the Chinese Central Committee/Politburo, who also just happened to extend 'OPEN' LINES OF CREDIT through his former Arkansas registered Bank (The Worthen Bank) to Bill Clinton during Bill Clinton's 1992 and 1996 Presidential campaigns?

Also, for those interested in what a 'Commie-Lover' John Kerry is, just do a google search for "Johnny Chung & Kerry" (in that order), to see for yourselves what 'relations' John Kerry maintains with Red Chinese Officials, and his 'Private' Trade Misions to China, or his 'friend' Mr. Marcus of the Chinese 'front company' known as the "Boston Technology Group"!
Hypocrite Democrat with a concealed weapon for herself, but not others, Dianne Feinswine shows more contempt for the ONLY WEAPONS that the 2nd Amendment supports (so-called 'Assault Weapons'), as she instead urges solidarity for Nazi-like Gun Controls for law-abiding Americans, because miniscule numbers of so-called "Assault-Weapons" are used by criminals who supply Democratic Party voters with illegal drugs, that are also banned???


The reporters, dignitaries and innocent bystanders packed into the room were too ignorant to be terrified as Feinstein swept the crowd with the muzzle of the Hungarian AK-47, bolt closed, finger on the trigger, with a high-capacity 75 round drum magazine locked in place!

San Francisco resident William A. Levinson wrote a certified letter to Mayor Willie Brown, Jr., demanding legal action against the blatant gun safety violations of the illustrious “Ms. Gun Control,” who holds a rare California concealed weapons permit.

Do as I say, not as I do...

When Sen. Feinstein was asked earlier why she carried that .38 Smith & Wesson concealed in her purse while promoting gun control for the rest of us, Feinstein answered, “I know the urge to arm yourself because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. I’d walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me.”

Yet, she's too much of an elitist Democrat hypocrite to admit that VERY FEW Californians are given 'permission' to protect themselves as Feinstein has the elite priveledge of having!

Be sure to view a mini-video of what the Democrats & Dianne Feinstein are working on to replace the 1994 Crime Bill Assault Weapon Ban (18 USC 44 922v) in September 2004 & the Gun-Grabbers vision of 'Gun Control' for Amerika:

http://www.cphv.com/fl_legacy.htm

Make sure you keep clicking on the "NEXT" boxes after the text appears & it's best if your computer has a sound card for the "FULL EFFECT"!
AL QAEDA's MAIN WEAPONS SUPPLIER & BILL CLINTON

Bill Clinton's Chinese 'friends' that continue to arm Al Qaeda...

Even though the Associated Press seems to hide reports like the one below, by Elena Jeleniak of the AP's Washington bureau,Red China REMAINS Al Qaeda's #1 supplier:

"30 Chinese shoulder-fired missiles found recently in Afghanistan by GI's"

Friday, June 21, 2002 9:51 a.m. EDT

China Continues to Arm Al-Qaeda, as China says U.S. "got what it deserved"!!!

Communist Chinese military officials have continued to arm Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda commandos with sophisticated surface-to-air missiles even after the 9-11 attacks on New York and Washington, D.C., according to U.S. intelligence reports."

Recently. U.S. Army Green Berets found 30 HN-5s, Chinese-made SA-7s surface-to-air missiles, in Afghanistan," reports the Washington Times.
"Intelligence reports indicate the Chinese shipped the missiles to the Taliban after September 11.
In June an al-Qaeda operative fired a Chinese made SA-7 missile at a U.S. military plane in Saudi Arabia, according to Pentagon sources.
Before Sept. 11, China's Army provided training for the Taliban militia and its al-Qaeda supporters, the Times added.

Chinese dictator Jiang Zemin was so impressed with Bin Laden's 9-11 attack that he sanctioned a propaganda effort suggesting the U.S. "got what it deserved", as workers at Beijing Television produced a documentary they called 'Attack America,'" reported the London Telegraph in November.
In the video, Chinese film editors mixed real news footage of the two commercial jetliners slamming into the World Trade Center with scenes from a 1998 remake of "Godzilla" where the monster wreaks havoc on New York.
"Communist Party officials say President Jiang Zemin has obsessively watched and re-watched pictures of the aircraft crashing into the World Trade Center," the Telegraph said.

_____________________________________________________________________
Clinton's secret deals with China's Arms Brokers!

Dan Rather & his leftist "buddies" at the Washington Post will never tell you how tight" Bill Clinton is & was with Al Qaeda's "Main WEAPONS SUPPLIER"!

These Clinton-loving "bastions of bias" will always protect Bill Clinton's illegal weapons deals with Red China's PLA (People's Liberation Army), as they will never tell the American public how Bill Clinton & Janet Reno purposely botched the FEDERAL INVESTIGATION that was known to Federal investigators, but not the American public, as "OPERATION DRAGONFIRE" But, before ATF, FBI & U.S. Customs Officials could link Bill Clinton to an $8 Million dollar illegal AK-47 deal with China's chief Arms Broker (Wang Jun) & Al Qaeda's munitions source, "Operation Dragonfire", an attempted Federal sting operation, that was meant to ensnare Bill Clinton's PLA 'friends', but was compromised by leaks from the Clinton Whitehouse! "Wang Jun", who had lunch with Clinton on Feb. 6th 1996, handed Bill Clinton four duffel bags of cash for a "very special import permit"!

Clinton, who loved the idea of "cold-untraceable" cash for his 1996 Presidential campaign, showed complete and utter disregard for cops on the streets, that his 1994 Crime Bill pretended to make safer, as he signed an import permit for the China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO) Empress Phoenix freighter to bring in $8 million dollars of illegal fully-automatic AK-47's to be distributed to Chinese Triad gangs in California, even if it meant cops being killed by fully-automatic AK-47's! A "WIN-WIN" deal for Clinton, as he could blame the weapons on the NRA & the so-called, "Gun Show Loophole"! Special Agent, Matthew King of the San Francisco U.S. Customs Office, and Special Agent Gary Stolz of the ATF's Reno, Nevada Office can tell you how Bill CLINTON DELIBERATELY COMPROMISED OPERATION DRAGONFIRE, because IT WOULD'VE MADE WATERGATE LOOK SMALL IN COMPARISON! China, who currently happens to be Al Qaeda & the Taliban's largest munitions suppliers, were also the largest 'donors' of campaign funds to Bill Clinton's 1992 & 1996 campaigns, as contributions to the 1996 campaign of that other 'Commie-Lover, John Kerry! In addition, China's 'sleeper agent', Charlie "Yah Lin" Trie pretended to be a Little Rock restauranteur in the 1980's, in order to begin a 'financial relationship' with Governor Bill Clinton, as Trie convinced Bill & Hillary Clinton to invest Arkansas State Teacher pension funds into Chinese state-run weapons producers Norinco & Poly-Tech in the 1980's!

More disturbing, was how the Janet Reno-led U.S. Justice Department continuously engaged in a series of actions that thwarted FBI Director Louis Freeh from properly investigating why China's chief arms broker brought four duffel bags of $100 bills into the Clinton Whitehouse on Feb. 6, 1996! ABC should explain why they eliniated the newslinks below: China's Army Marches to Profits U.S. Firms: Dealing with the PLA Mr. Wang Goes to Washington

Wang’s visit to Washington came at a time when U.S. government officials and law enforcement agencies were reviewing allegations that the firm had sold cruise missiles to Iran, traded weapons for heroin in Burma and brokered a number of other deals with “rogue” nations. SPECIAL REPORT Mr. Wang Goes to Washington Mixing Business with Weapons By David Phinney ABCNEWS.com Wang Jun simply paid a social visit when he dropped by the White House to sip coffee with President Clinton and a circle of major contributors to the Democratic National Committee—or so he said. But when the press discovered the incident, Wang’s visit made headlines. Wang serves as chairman of China’s major international weapons broker, the PLA-owned Polytechnologies. Prior to going to the White House, he had a business meeting with someone who had just contributed $50,000 to the DNC. Wang’s visit to Washington came at a time when U.S. government officials and law enforcement agencies were reviewing allegations that the firm had sold cruise missiles to Iran, traded weapons for heroin in Burma and brokered a number of other deals with “rogue” nations. Polytechnologies also has been repeatedly accused of smuggling small weapons into the United States.

White House Guest Employs Gunrunners Just months after Wang’s Washington visit, the FBI targeted Polytechnologies in a June 1996 sting operation that caught suspects attempting to smuggle 2,000 Chinese AK-47 assault rifles into the San Francisco Bay Area.

Five of the 14 suspects were principal U.S. representatives of two major PLA arms suppliers—Norinco as well as Polytechnologies. Many of the suspects disappeared after the bust. Both Chinese firms deny involvement in the illegal arms shipment, which has a reported street value of $2 million to $4 million, but law enforcement agencies have repeatedly targeted the firms for similar activity in Los Angeles, Miami and other cities. President Clinton has since said Wang’s White House visit in February 1996 was “clearly inappropriate.” Wall Street Cozies Up to Wang The son of former Chinese Vice President Wang Zhen, Wang also serves as chairman the $23 billion financial powerhouse, China International Trust and Investment Corp. The organization has raised hundreds of millions of dollars in the U.S. bond market, which some observers claim has been partially funneled to military-run businesses. The managing executive with CITIC’s New York office denies that investment money goes to the PLA. “That is nonsense,” he responded. Other’s aren’t so sure. Roger Robinson, a former economic adviser to the National Security Council under President Bush claims that New York firms have handled more than $800 million in CITIC bonds. He believes that some of that money could very well be going to PLA firms and helping to establish credit operations for China’s international weapons sales. “We’re talking about an organization that is intimately connected to the Chinese military commission,” Robinson says. Wang made his White House visit during a trip to drum up new business on Wall Street. Democrats Power Breakfast with the PLA Just hours before visiting with President Clinton, Wang first met with Ernest Green, an active fund raiser for the Democratic National Committee and a friend of the president. Green, a managing director with the Lehman Brothers investment bank in Washington, was looking to develop business with CITIC, a spokesperson for Lehman later told the press. Green’s appointments that day also included delivering a $50,000 check in his wife’s name to the DNC prior to meeting with Wang. These series of events later prompted ongoing investigations by the Justice Department and Congress, who are now attempting to determine whether there may be a link between the Chinese government and fund-raising efforts by the Democratic Party. Wang, in turn, denies any impropriety. “It is sheer nonsense that some U.S. reports described this meeting as having something to do with the political donations case,” he told the New China News Agency. “These stories deliberately distorted the facts.” Wang said he visited the United States to meet with Lehman Brothers and acquaint himself with the U.S. bond market. He also was reported to have met with then-Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. (Before Clinton had Ron Brown murdered with a .45 caliber slug in the back of his head with a staged plane crash on a phony trade mission to war-torn Croatia!)

[scooter_the_shooter]

the first few parargraphs are propogandaish but after that it quotes real new sources

[Goofball]

What do you democrats think of this http://www.ak47world.com/clinton.html this is downright treasonous... read all of it he should be in jail.(there is more than one story on that page)

Erm...

Okay...

I've read it all.

What exactly is Clinton supposed to be guilty of?

~:confused:

[Louis VI the Fat]

It begins with

shown is the 'lying piece of scum', otherwise known as Bill Clintonand ends with
Clinton had Ron Brown murdered with a .45 caliber slug in the back of his head with a staged plane crash on a phony trade mission to war-torn Croatia!Wow, man. That sounds a like a fine piece of objective quality journalism. I'll give it a full read first thing tomorrow morning!

[scooter_the_shooter]

I know alot of it is just...weird but it does have some real sources in the middle like abc

[scooter_the_shooter]

In 1986 they made it so you couldn't bring full auto to america any more clinton was involved in bringing thousands of full auto ak47s to america, made by the people who supply alqueada.

[Tribesman]

What exactly is Clinton supposed to be guilty of?
What does it matter , he is CLINTON , he is EVIL , that is enough isn't it ~D ~D ~D
I am surprised no one has posted the other Clinton one that is doing the rounds at the moment . It was really Hilary Clinton that ordered the massacre of the good decent Christians with a simple patriotic fondness for guns at Waco , and they have proof ~;)

edit to add made the people who supply alqueada.
Would those be the same arms manufacturers whose weapons were purchased by the US governmnet to send to the Islamic militants in Afghanistan ?

[Goofball]

I know alot of it is just...weird but it does have some real sources in the middle like abc

Stop the presses.

Let me get this straight:

According to right-wing types, the mainstream news media (like ABC) are all a bunch of left-wing, biased, Democrat-controlled commies, except when they print something bad about Clinton, then they are "real sources."

Okay. I think I understand.

~:rolleyes:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Oh so antigun goof doesn't care when a liberal has anything to do with a gun, you only want to disarm me and other right wingers :help:


Clinton was one of the main people for the 94 ban... but then he lets thousands of full auto in which were already illegal because of the 86 import ban, and they were covered by the 94 ban. And sense they weren't registered they were also banned by the the 34 ban.

[Goofball]

Oh so anitgun goof doesn't care when a liberal has anything to do with a gun, you only want to disarm me and other right wingers :help:

Wow. It seems your logical leap mechanisms are right in tune with the author if this article.

You too should apply for a job as a contributor to "ak47world.com," you'd fit right in.

[scooter_the_shooter]

He broke 2 big laws the 34 ban and 86 ban(the 94 ban is expired but wasn't back then I dont remember the penalty for it) he should be in jail for 20 years and be a felon, and thats not even counting the penalty for breaking the 94 ban.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Wow. It seems your logical leap mechanisms are right in tune with the author if this article.

You too should apply for a job as a contributor to "ak47world.com," you'd fit right in.


The part you saw is about the only political thing (except for the part about atf laws on another part of the site to help you make sure you dont have an illegal gun) If i knew enough about ak47s to work for them I wouldn't be looking for info about ak47s on their site ~;)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well if thats not good enough theres always this little diddy.


Clinton Administration Sold to China Systems Used by Iraq

Charles R. Smith
Friday, Feb. 23, 2001

The Clinton administration authorized the transfer of a fiber-optic air defense system to China – the same one the Pentagon claimed helped thwart U.S. air attacks against Iraq.

When U.S. warplanes struck new Iraqi air defense sites around Baghdad, Pentagon officials were mum in naming the country that sold the new air defense missile system to Saddam Hussein.

The Washington Post revealed that China was assisting Iraqi air defense, an allegation promptly denied by Iraq. According to the Post article, Chinese engineers were helping Iraq to install a network of fiber-optic communications and computers designed to track and destroy U.S. warplanes. (The export also violates U.N. weapons embargoes against Saddam.)

President Bush's national security adviser confirmed last Thursday that Chinese engineers were indeed helping Iraq.

The real story behind Iraq's high-tech buildup remains untold until now.

The Chinese fiber-optic air defense system in the Iraqi desert is in fact of U.S. origin. In 1994, Chinese spymaster Gen. Ding Henggao obtained the advanced fiber-optic system through his contacts inside the Clinton administration.

According to documents obtained using the Freedom of Information Act, in 1994 Ding was a close friend of Clinton Secretary of Defense William Perry.

Perry and Ding's relationship spans three administrations. Perry reportedly met Ding in the late 1970s during the Carter administration.

By 1994, Ding had risen to command the Chinese Army military research bureau "COSTIND," or the Commission on Science Technology and Industry for National Defense.

COSTIND, according to the General Accounting Office, "oversees development of China's weapon systems and is responsible for identifying and acquiring telecommunications technology applicable for military use."

In 1994, the personal consultant to Perry teamed with Ding to buy an advanced AT&T fiber-optic communications system for "civilian" use inside China.

The communications system slipped past U.S. exports laws as a joint U.S.-Chinese commercial venture called "Hua Mei." The Chinese part of the venture was run by a newly formed firm named "Galaxy New Technology."

Stanford professor John Lewis, a close friend and the paid personal consultant for Perry, was the key board member of the project.

According to the Far Eastern Economic Review, Lewis had his friend Perry write a letter on his behalf to U.S. government officials, favoring the fiber-optic export to China.

Lewis located Adlai Stevenson III, the former Democratic senator from Illinois, to lead the American side of the joint venture. Gen. Ding's wife, Madam Nie Li, headed the joint project as the Chinese co-chairman. Lewis contracted AT&T to ship the secure communication system directly to a Chinese army unit using Galaxy New Technology as a front.

The documents show that Lewis not only worked for Stanford University and the Chinese army at the same time, but that he also worked for the U.S. Defense Department.

In August 1994, Lewis and Secretary of Defense Perry traveled to Beijing to meet with Ding. According to the official list of attendees, Lewis accompanied Perry as his paid "personal" consultant.

Chinese Firm Backed by Military

AT&T officials who sold most of the equipment and software were adamant that there was no need to check the Chinese firm because the "civilian" Madam Nie Lie led it.

Yet, the so-called civilian firm was actually packed with Chinese army officers and experts. Madam Nie Lie was not only the wife of Gen. Ding Henggao; Madam Nie was actually Lt. Gen. Nie Lie of the Chinese army.

Another member of New Galaxy Technology, according to a Defense Department document, was Director and President "Mr. Deng Changru." Deng is also known as Lt. Col. Deng Changru of the People's Liberation Army, head of the Chinese communications corps.

Still another Chinese army officer on the Galaxy New Technology staff was co-General Manager "Mr. Xie Zhichao," better known in military circles as Lt. Col. Xie Zhichao, director of the Chinese army's Electronics Design Bureau.

In 1997, Rep. Henry Hyde pressed unsuccessfully for the Department of Justice to investigate the Galaxy New Technology scandal in a letter outlining his concerns.

According to Hyde, "in 1994, sophisticated telecommunications technology was transferred to a U.S.-Chinese joint venture called HUA MEI, in which the Chinese partner is an entity controlled by the Chinese military. This particular transfer included fiber-optic communications equipment, which is used for high-speed, secure communications over long distances. Also included in the package was advanced encryption software."

In 1994, the Chinese spymaster Gen. Ding personally penetrated the U.S. Defense Department at the highest levels, using his contacts with Secretary Perry to obtain a secure fiber-optic network.

There was more than profit for Ding and his Chinese army company packed with electronics experts.

The Chinese army's Electronics Design Bureau modified the American fiber-optic communication system, changing it into a secure air-defense system. The Chinese army then exported the newly modified system to Iraq.

The Iraqi air defense network, NATO code-named "Tiger Song," is made of U.S. and French fiber-optic parts modified by the People's Liberation Army.

Iraqi missiles guided by Tiger Song regularly attack U.S. fighter jets. U.S. jets have recently retaliated, striking back with bombs and missiles.

Chinese military engineers from 2nd and 4th Signals Corps of the Chinese Army Headquarters are even now repairing the damaged Iraqi air defense system.

The cat-and-mouse game of missile and electronic combat with Saddam is expected to continue for years as the Chinese army engineers improve the deadly Tiger Song network.

In 1998, Gen. Ding retired from active service in the Chinese army.

However, he was decorated by President Jiang Zemin as a hero of the Chinese communist party for his successful operations against America.

Ding's attack on America ranks as one of the most successful espionage operations of the 20th century.

Tiger Song, the Chinese fiber-optic air defense system in the Iraqi desert, is a legacy of the Clinton years that will now need to be revisited regularly by U.S. bombers in the 21st century.

And let us not forget the bigger missles.


China Gate, How Clinton sold us out to the Chinese. updated 5/26/99

Finally we get to look at some of the Cox Report. Although the most damming portions of it have been redacted or are still classified as top secret to protect the guilty. For those not familiar with what has been going on or have been confused by the democrat controlled media's spin on it, I will attempt to summarize what has happened. It is only the worst breach of national security since the Rosenbergs gave the USSR nuclear secrets. China has been for 20 years or more spying on us attempting to steal our nuclear weapons technology. The spin on this is that it started during Reagan and Bush's presidency so therefore it is their fault and not Clinton's. There are major problems with this spin, (spin, political word for lies told trying to make something bad look not as bad as it looks or is someone else's fault.) While it is true the Chinese have been stealing nuclear secrets that long ago, it wasn't known then. It was found out during Clinton's presidency and nothing was done about it..
Not only was nothing done about it, Clinton took campaign contributions from Chinese nationalist. The biggest contributor to the Democrats was a CEO of Loral corporation who happens to launch satellites. Since the US has not kept up with the needs of commercial satellite launches they have been going to other countries to get their satellites up. China had a big problem with their rockets not making it. But they wanted those American dollars for launches and other things as we will see.. A couple companies asked the Clinton Administration for wavers to transfer prohibited technology to China so their satellites would quit blowing up or going off course. The two companies were Loral and Hughes Electronics, they got the wavers and helped the Chinese with their rockets. They also gave them technology to launch more than one satellite from one rocket. The reason this technology was prohibited is because not only can it be used to launch many satellites accurately and successfully with one rocket it can be used to launch a ICBM (Inter Continental Ballistic Missile) with multiple warheads. These rockets contain a black box in them that is sealed, provided by these companies. This black box is a GPS (Global Positioning System) which allows them to guide the rockets very accurately. The Chinese were not supposed to ever have access to the black box. They were to go up with the rockets and be destroyed when the remains of the launch vehicle renter the atmosphere. One of the early rockets crashed, some what suspiciously, and when they wreckage was recovered the black box was missing.. Many speculate the Chinese military intended for the rocket to crash so they could get their hands on the black box.
So what does all this mean? It means combined with China stealing the information to manufacture our nuclear warheads including the miniature W88 which tips the trident missiles in our nuclear submarines, they now have the technology to deliver them to our cities. They have started building ICBM's and we know they now have at least twenty of them and are on a program to build various ICBM's including mobile units which can be moved, making them very hard to find.
This doesn't scare you? How about this, a couple years ago China told us that we would not interfere with their take over of Taiwan because we value Los Angeles too much. The implied threat is if we get in their way they will nuke Los Angeles.
There is much more to this story but I can't write it all and I am not sure I know it all. Stuff like other technology for things like pulse weapons, EMP weapons, aircraft technology, including stealth were stolen. The Clinton administration transferred control of prohibited technology transfers from the state department to the commerce department. Then China was granted requests to buy many super computers and manufacturing technology. The super computers allow them to model nuclear weapons tests with out actually blowing one up to test it. The manufacturing technology allows them to build advanced rockets and missiles. We have given them most favored trade partner status which has fueled their economy with our money, which then is being used to build up their military. Look at how many things you purchase, from clothes, electronics, housewares and more that are made in China now. We have allowed generals who commanded the Chinese troops that killed students demonstrating for freedom into this country and welcomed them as friends. Make no mistake China is NOT OUR FRIEND, and treating them as such is a disastrous mistake.

The Cox Report; U.S. National Security and Military/Commercial Concerns with the People's Republic of China
SCMP; Beijing spies continue work'
SCMP; Details 'will wind up in hands of terrorist regimes and rogue states'
Capitol Hill Blue; Most damning information against Clinton, others, cut from Cox report
News Australia; Clinton, blackmail, Beijing's political profiles



I did a google search of Clinton scandals and I was overwhelmed by the number of hits.

Its funny in another thread I asked for a list of this guys accomplishments and no one could even come up with one. Again I say he will go down as one of the worst presidents in US history.

[scooter_the_shooter]

dang, gawain there are ALOT I wasnt expecting that many.

http://www.google.com/search?q=clinton+scandals&btnG=Google+Search

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And lets not leave out the worst he is accused of.


Letter About Jane Doe #5

Related Links
# Other Jones v. Clinton Legal Documents

# Other 'Clinton Accused' Legal Documents

# Full Coverage: Clinton Accused
Wednesday, December 23, 1998

Editor's Note: Following is the text of a letter released on March 28 by Paula Jones's legal team. It tells a story the letter-writer alleged was recounted to him by the woman who has become known as "Jane Doe No. 5." FBI documents related to unsubstantiated allegations about Clinton's conduct with Jane Doe No. 5 are among the pieces of evidence submitted by independent counsel Kenneth Starr that remain available only to House members. In their filing, the Jones legal team said the letter was written by a Fayetteville, Ark., man named Phillip David Yoakum in 1992 and outlines what he alleged the woman told him 14 years earlier. (See the Post story.) On Jan. 2, 1998, Jane Doe No. 5 filed an affidavit in the Jones case denying that Clinton made unwelcome sexual advances toward her.

Dear [Name Withheld]:

I wanted to write this letter and give you my personal assurances on the situation that has recently occurred; and, that I am giving you these assurances as a friend and to follow up on a personal promise that I made to [husband's name] on the telephone -- that I would never do anything to hurt you. This is a promise that I can live with the rest of my life, and be at peace with my Lord that I have acted in a responsible, Christian manner without having to lie.

I would like to capsulize the events up to this date. When I first met you many years ago, I was impressed with you as a person and the quality that you brought to the nursing home profession, and I enjoyed the lively conversations we had. I was particularly distraught when you told me of your brutal rape by Bill Clinton and how it affected you. You relayed on more than one occasion the details of how Clinton first approached you as being interested in the nursing home business; how, while during [a state conference] in Little Rock, Clinton invited himself to your hotel room ostensibly to discuss business; and how, when Clinton came to your room at the Camelot, he started trying to kiss you and ran his hands all over your body, how you resisted until he ripped your clothes off, and how he bit your lip until you gave into his forcing sex upon you. At that time neither of us realized Clinton would ever aspire as a Democratic candidate for the presidency of the United States. What a shock now to realize that he will possibly be the president of a free democratic country while carrying the guilt of such an assault on someone as undeserving as you. For this I feel truly depressed and pray that God will bless this Nation in spite of the leadership that abounds in exploiting individuals for their own personal gain

When I saw Clinton win the Democratic nomination for the presidency, the memory of our conversations returned. Therefore, I prepared a document detailing the facts of the rape as you had told them to me, with names omitted, and faxed it down to Sheffield Nelson. I was concerned about the situation and wanted to have someone with integrity go visit with you concerning your situation with Clinton. To be perfectly honest, when Sheffield received the fax he didn't know if he was being set up by the Democrats -- or just what. We talked on the telephone and he agreed to come and be with me while visiting with you. The meeting was one of mutual respect. I had taken a tape recorder just to protect myself and to see if the item I had prepared for review coincided with the conversation. The tape was never to be used against you; however, it did confirm the conversation and events almost exactly to the document I had faxed him. Sheffield, when we left [the nursing home], was shocked and moved at what had happened to you.

We both simply asked you if you were interested in coming forward, if for nothing else, just to release you from the guilt you said you had been carrying for fourteen years. And you mentioned that, if you did come forward, that it would truly convince [husband's name] of your innocence in the matter and also it would help to set his mind at rest. Sheffield also mentioned that he had a friend on the West Coast, a trusted reporter that you could tell your story to and thereby prevent a circus media event. He also mentioned that he would bring his wife to San Francisco and meet with you and the reporter if you so wished. Sheffield insisted that if you were to indeed come forward that it should be done in a dignified manner, and he gave you his assurances.

On Friday, I received a call from, the Los Angeles Times, asking if indeed the story was true, and I confirmed that it was. The reporter wanted my tape, but I would not release it to him or even let him hear a part of it. As far as I was concerned, it was confidential -- and it still is. He asked me if I knew where you were staying in San Francisco, and I told him no. Somehow he bird-dogged it out and found you. If you recall, you never told us if your trip was for business or pleasure. Shortly thereafter, I received a call from the Associated Press, and again I confirmed our conversation but would not release the tape or let any part of the conversation be heard. If any statement was to be made, it had to come from you; not me.

Later that evening I had a telephone call from [husband's name] and he asked me if Sheffield had made a recording of our conversation and I said no. As far as I was concerned, my tape did not exist because it was to confirm one way or the other if the event had actually happened so this was a moot issue. [Husband's name] then told me that if anyone called, to lie and tell them it did not happen. I told [husband's name] that I would not lie but would refer calls to him or you. And to this day, I have honored my statement. [Husband's name], in no uncertain terms, threatened that I would be held personally responsible for the release of this information. He also told me that he had a call in to the Democratic party with a message for Clinton "to call [husband's full name] as soon as possible." I asked him if Clinton would know who the call was from and he assured me that "Clinton would know!" [Husband's name] said he wanted to assure me that your situation with him would not go unattended and that he was "going to ask Clinton for a couple of big favors" and that he "would get them" -- that "Clinton owed it" to you all. I taped that conversation, also. My only comment here is evidently some big favors had to occur to see such a change in your attitude, and to lie on such a tragic matter. Whatever the price for silence, I hope it is worth it and that you can both be able to look in the mirror and face yourself, and the God that [husband's name] talked about in our telephone conversation. My prayers are that God will bless you in your businesses; I sincerely do.

I believe that you will continue to be irreparably psychologically damaged by your decision to continue to hold this brutal rape inside; I believe your marriage will be irreparably harmed by never allowing you the opportunity to confront your attacker; I believe your son would demand you to come forward to confront Clinton if they had knowledge; and I believe that our country has a right to know what kind of fraud is being perpetrated upon it. However, I will not subsitute my beliefs of what is best for you, your marriage, or our country on you as I think that is improper. I will say that I hope whatever promises or favors Clinton performs for you, or [husband's name] evens the score for his brutal attack, 14 years suffering you have endured, and the never ending future burden you will be carrying. Your wishes became painfully obvious to me when [husband's name] started lying as he was coached to do; you, for the first time, tried to deny the rape as you were so being coached to do; and how the "pay off" was confirmed. I hope the "pay off" was your decision, [name withheld]. I doubt you are the first victim that Clinton has been able to silence nor will you be the last.

As I have stated above, I am not going to release the tapes and other back-up materials, and you can live your life without the fear of me ever doing so. However, for my own protection I have made copies of the tapes and everything else and given them to both my attorney and Sheffield. These tapes and materials will be held forever, for posterity, and they will never be released unless I am forced by you to have to release them in court or to the press or also, in light of [husband's name]'s threats, in the event harm should ever come to me or my family. I gave Sheffield his copies of everything without any restrictions, so that he could use them any way he might choose.

Sincerely

Phillip Yoakum

© Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

[scooter_the_shooter]

So the total is about 30 years now because of the rape. Can any one remember the penalty from the 94 ban if you broke it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You guys really big fans of Clinton huh?

[PanzerJaeger]

Yep, he was definately in China's pocket.. Debts from the election had to be paid at some point..

[Grey_Fox]

the 'lying piece of scum', otherwise known as Bill Clinton, sitting in the Whitehouse with Red Chinese Army General Zhang Wannian, who was also the primary Chinese Army Official (nicknamed, "The Butcher of Bejing") who ordered the slaughter of Chinese dissident students at Tiannenmen square, that most of the Clinton-loving news media also 'forgot' to tell you about!

Donald Rumsfeld was shown having meetings with Saddam Hussein, even shaking his hand. Why isn't he being strung up by his balls?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Donald Rumsfeld was shown having meetings with Saddam Hussein, even shaking his hand. Why isn't he being strung up by his balls?

Its called diplomacy. Would you like to see who else shook his hand and say the same of them?

[Grey_Fox]

I know it's diplomacy. I'm saying it's no different than Clinton meeting the person that put down the students in Tiannenmen Square.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I know it's diplomacy. I'm saying it's no different than Clinton meeting the person that put down the students in Tiannenmen Square.

Ecause me bit did you read any of what was said in any of those articles. It seems he did a bit more than shake the guys hand.

[King of Atlantis]

I resfuse to read an article that begins


shown is the 'lying piece of scum', otherwise known as Bill Clinton

this article is obviously biased.

What good did clinton do, thats easy

balnced budget
many good enviromental stuff
kept good relations with the world

Those alone are much better than Bush. Cant say hes done much that wasnt extremely harmful

[scooter_the_shooter]

Well its about how clinton took a bribe to let illegal guns into the US. While doing so he broke the 1934 ban(well not ban but it made them hard to get) the 1986 ban and the 1994 ban.

The begining was made by that site some of it is from real sources though.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

balnced budget

No he didnt.


many good enviromental stuff

For instance? Hell Nixon started the EPA.


kept good relations with the world

Did he?

None of those are great accomplishments.


Those alone are much better than Bush. Cant say hes done much that wasnt extremely harmful

Oh please!!!!!

[King of Atlantis]

No he didnt.

he balanced the budget MUCH better than Bush.




For instance? Hell Nixon started the EPA.

not sure about specific laws , but he put much more importance to it than bush




Did he?

yes he did. Poland and Isreal were the only countires in the world that wanted Bush to win the presidency


None of those are great accomplishments.

I would say they are extremely important.




Oh please!!!!!

Tell me, what good has Bush done.

Also Clinton adverted a september 11 type thing. Terrorist were going to do something at an airport, but he followed his reports and caught the guys when entering from Canada.

ceasar010, dont know about braking those laws as again im not going to read that article, but im sure Bush has broken laws too.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Who cares who they want they are't citizens, Thats like those loons who want the UN to have control over our military.

Bush has not taken a bribe from the same people who sell guns to osama :furious3: I was going to buy that brand but after reading this not any more :furious3:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

he balanced the budget MUCH better than Bush.

He didnt balance it at all congress did. Learn the facts.


yes he did. Poland and Isreal were the only countires in the world that wanted Bush to win the presidency

I bet Yugoslavia didnt care much for him nor Iran or Iraq.


not sure about specific laws , but he put much more importance to it than bush

Well thats one for Bush then. ~;)

These enviormentalists wackos have gone to far already.


Tell me, what good has Bush done.

Lets start with this

Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

* Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."

* On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation:

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to to become teachers.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Qaida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaida leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaida leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.

Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

* A 10-year privatization option.
* Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.
* More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.
* New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.

Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.

Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6. Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

And this was all in only his first term.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Dont forget he let us have our evil hi-cap magazines for our guns back too ~:)... About time

[Strike For The South]

I like that ~:cheers:

[Azi Tohak]

But remember Gawain, he is just a puppet of those evil men from the Republican party. He can't actually think, he just stands there while Cheney controls him like a puppet. And actually, all of those things you listed, are bad for America, m'kay?

Why... well... I don't really know right now... but I'm sure someone is going to come along and pick it apart. Piece by (agonizing) piece.

Azi

[Red Harvest]

What the heck happened to that vomit emoticon? The article and this thread could really use a dose of it.

Can we start a betting pool on when the Right is going to quit campaigning against an ex-president who already completed his two terms and is ineligible to run again?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And to think they were once so proud of him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Seriously you guys are obsessed with Clinton. Bush bashers haven't got nuthin on you.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Ah Premier Clinton. For the Motherland, I suppose?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Seriously you guys are obsessed with Clinton. Bush bashers haven't got nuthin on you.

Would you like to bet? Come on be a bit realistic. Besides Clinton was and is such a moral reject. That goes for his wife also. Imagine you have to leave your 16 year old daughter with one couple or the other. Would you pick the Clintons or the Bushes?

For every clinton bash theres 100 Bush bashes. Its not like Clinton is ancient history you know. Boy I hope Hillary runs in 08. Rush and the crew will have a ball.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Would you like to bet? Come on be a bit realistic. Besides Clinton was and is such a moral reject. That goes for his wife also. Imagine you have to leave your 16 year old daughter with one couple or the other. Would you pick the Clintons or the Bushes?

I'd be more worried about how I managed to conceive a daughter at age 2 1/2, and with who.


For every clinton bash theres 100 Bush bashes.

Not on this forum.

[Red Harvest]

Lets start with this

<snip>



Unfortunately, a lot of those really are statements of his policy intent rather than "accomplishments." Some are total jokes like the "Character & Conduct as President" section...that one is a laugh riot. And most of the actual "accomplishments" were negative/regressive in nature and are things I oppose.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And most of the actual "accomplishments" were negative/regressive in nature and are things I oppose.

Well thats because your liberal as much as you try to deny it. ~:) Its a nuch better list than anyones come up for Clinton. In fact it fixed a few more of his mess ups.

[Red Harvest]

Well thats because your liberal as much as you try to deny it. ~:) Its a nuch better list than anyones come up for Clinton. In fact it fixed a few more of his mess ups.

Spoken like an extreme right winger. Do they give you guys label makers for Christmas?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Spoken like an extreme right winger. Do they give you guys label makers for Christmas?

Spoken like an extreme left winger .Do they give you guys label makers for Christmas? Do you ever stop making yourslf look silly like this? You label me an extreme rightwinger and then ask if we get label markers for christmas. Do you think before you post?

Besides that us righwingers are proud to be labelled conservatives while you left wingers run from being labelled liberals. ~;)

[KafirChobee]

Would you like to bet? Come on be a bit realistic. Besides Clinton was and is such a moral reject. That goes for his wife also. Imagine you have to leave your 16 year old daughter with one couple or the other. Would you pick the Clintons or the Bushes?

For every clinton bash theres 100 Bush bashes. Its not like Clinton is ancient history you know. Boy I hope Hillary runs in 08. Rush and the crew will have a ball.

Actually, Rush may be in jail by then. After all who indulges in "30" oxycotin a day (my Mom was dying and only used 6 to ease her pain) and uses their "maid" to supply them (she's in jail, you know?)? Rush is not a good source here, Gawain. Leave the old junky die where he lies.

As for Bill versus Dubya? Well, one liked America (americans) and the other liked his Oil buddies. Bill, left a surplus that would payoff the national debt, give health insurance to all Americans, guarantee Social Security, and attempted to ensure that the clauses enplaced by his predicersors (Ronny and Bush41) endured. Where as, Bush43 has endeavored to enridch the wealth, give further tax breaks to the oil companys (his buds), ensure that no social reforms will be possible for atleast 20 years and has increased the national debt into perpetuity.

The truth may hurt, but face it - Bill may have had his moral (gotta bj) problems, but Bush is bought and paid for by the big boys. And, always has been, Anyone that knows how he became a "millionaire" (invests $40,000 in a baseball team and walks away with $40Million) knows this is a person that will do anything for money. Anything for himself, and nothing for the common man. Bill, did what he could for us, but had to fight a witch hunt daily - Bush43 could never stand the investigation Bill had to endure. To think he could is your first imistake.

Already there is talk of impeachment, from within the GOP, because of Bush43's policies - his over-reaching of power and abuses there of. It will be amazing if the GOP can again divert attention from the real issue (s) to some mundane non-relevent crap - like say homosexuals marrying. No doubt some of you will follow that, versus the reality of corruption in happening in the administration you worship.

BTW, yes, I liked Bill - alot. But, believe me - he really pmo when he said he didn't get that bj. Of course, nothing like Bush43 saying there wew WMD - or sitting around for 7 minutes in a class room after being told America was under attack. Still, bj's are more relevent than leadership.

:balloon2:

[Red Harvest]

Spoken like an extreme left winger .Do they give you guys label makers for Christmas? Do you ever stop making yourslf look silly like this? You label me an extreme rightwinger and then ask if we get label markers for christmas. Do you think before you post?

Besides that us righwingers are proud to be labelled conservatives while you left wingers run from being labelled liberals. ~;)

I was actually proud of the irony of the statement. ~D ~D ~D Being called liberal or left wing by you doesn't carry much sting as you are most certainly out on the extreme right. I can't think of many folks farther right than you and you quote the right wing stuff like it is gospel.

[rasoforos]

If we were to put all American Politicians in jail just because they:

a) took a smiling picture with a war criminal/dictator
b) created a dictatorship
c) collaborated with one

then the US would be having a monarch now...and he d be foreign :D

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Is that what the backroom looks like nowaday?

When I saw the title I thought it was a kind of parody... But nope, looks like you're dead serious.

What's the point of the gazillion US thread here?

Louis,

[bmolsson]

Relax, Clinton is not a president anymore. No further bashing required...... ~;)

[Ja'chyra]

Do you honestly think all of those are good things G?

[scooter_the_shooter]

I do Clinton butchered the second amendment(the 94 ban that he broke while we had to abide by it) bush brought it back to normal.

[monkian]

I do Clinton butchered the second amendment(the 94 ban that he broke while we had to abide by it) bush brought it back to normal.

Yeah otherwise you'd have the King of England pushing you around ! ~:rolleyes:

[scooter_the_shooter]

I dont get people who want to ban guns, Me and my friends that shoot and hunt are statistically less likely to commit a crime then you, but yet you keep pushing legislation on us. There is NO reason to ban guns.

If you are afraid little johnny will find one and shoot him self.... shut up and teach him eddie eagle; quit trying to take my property away.


Funded by the nra what do the anti gun groups try to do for gun safety ~;)

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

There are 30,000 accidental deaths with guns a year in the US out of 80 MILLION gun owners, they are used for defense 2.5 MILLION times. The 1994 ban only banned guns that were used in less then 1 percent of crime. And banning guns doesnt solve a damn thing.


Some statistics from a city that banned them (these are a few years old) the ban has benn in place for over 20 years.


If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000.

The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

[Spetulhu]

In what way can a President of the US help with arms smuggling? And why is it illegal if he can do it?

[scooter_the_shooter]

He took a bribe to let some illegal guns in...And he broke the law...thats my whole point he should be in jail.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I can't think of many folks farther right than you and you quote the right wing stuff like it is gospel.

Well youve done it again.I can't think of many folks farther left than you and you quote the left wing stuff like it is gospel. There are you happy. I can make ridiclous accustaions just the same as you. Maybe you should start a poll on who is the most far right person here. I wont even come close to winning.


Actually, Rush may be in jail by then.

Dont hold your breath waiting for that one. Im not even gooing to address the rest of that ridiculous post.

[Petrus]

He took a bribe to let some illegal guns in...And he broke the law...thats my whole point he should be in jail.

So you think there shall be a very strong control of weapon disponibility by the justice in the us?

[scooter_the_shooter]

I hate gun control it is my opinion if you want that M1 abrams and have the money go buy it. But he is an anti gun and he passed a ban in 1994 and said that there needed to be more gun control, he let machine guns in that had features covered by the ban he is a hypocrite.


here arew 2 quotes by this :furious3:

------------------------------------


"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say.

Bill Clinton

1993-05-29

---------------------------
The constitution is a radical document. It is the job of government to reign in people's rights.

Bill Clinton

[Tribesman]

He took a bribe to let some illegal guns in...And he broke the law...thats my whole point he should be in jail.
Then prove it in a court of law , as all you are on about are unsubstantiated allegations , which means possibly made up rubbish , if you want to get all upset about possible made up rubbish then you need to take a serious reality check .
As Gawains cut and paste article which shows how EVIL!!!!! Clinton is contains this little peach.....
FBI documents related to unsubstantiated allegations about Clinton's conduct with Jane Doe No. 5 are among the pieces of evidence
.... it does seem that you are getting your knickers in a twist over a load of rubbish that possibly isn't even true .
I am sure that with all the money that these special interest groups groups(we hate Clinton inc.) have been able to throw into their investigations they would have come up with something concrete by now , but instead they are just shouting about unproven allegations in the belief that if they can say it often and loud enough it will become truth .

[Red Harvest]

Is that what the backroom looks like nowaday?

When I saw the title I thought it was a kind of parody... But nope, looks like you're dead serious.

What's the point of the gazillion US thread here?



Pretty much sums it up.

[Redleg]

Well Clinton was a politician. He told people what he wanted to tell people and made some huge profit off of being President. (something some of our more hateful idealogs point out about President Bush - but refuse to see in President Clinton.)

If the accusations had any proof of a crime actually being committed by President Clinton - the Republican House and Senate of the 1990's would of tried to impeach him on other charges - not just the 4 charges based upon perjury that the house sent to the senate.

Most of this is ideological smoke and mirrors to demonize Clinton - who I think was a terrible president - but I recongize it for what this article is.

(Begins looking for my "far right" defensive tinfoil and duct tape.)

Careful on the conspiracy theories - most have just enough evidence to sell you on their hateful idealogical views - but offer no real evidence of wrongdoing.

[PanzerJaeger]

What's the point of the gazillion US thread here?

No ones stopping you from posting topics that have nothing to do with the US, in fact I look forward to them.

[monkian]

Well Clinton was a politician. He told people what he wanted to tell people and made some huge profit off of being President. (something some of our more hateful idealogs point out about President Bush - but refuse to see in President Clinton.)

If the accusations had any proof of a crime actually being committed by President Clinton - the Republican House and Senate of the 1990's would of tried to impeach him on other charges - not just the 4 charges based upon perjury that the house sent to the senate.

Most of this is ideological smoke and mirrors to demonize Clinton - who I think was a terrible president - but I recongize it for what this article is.

(Begins looking for my "far right" defensive tinfoil and duct tape.)

Careful on the conspiracy theories - most have just enough evidence to sell you on their hateful idealogical views - but offer no real evidence of wrongdoing.

Although I don't have such strong views on Clinton as Redleg, I agree with the majority of his post.

Lets close this abortion of a thread before it encourages more of the same ilk.

[Goofball]

This whole thread is a farce. It's based on some vague articles that are full of inuendo and very light on facts, and uses those articles to imply that Clinton was a traitor because he may have at one time had some vague connection with China. Of course, conservatives/Republicans read this and start drooling because Clinton imbued them with such an inferiority complex during his time as President that they still hate him for making them feel like they had small penises. So this opportunity to further villify Clinton is leapt upon as a chance to re-enlarge their phalluses.

But before you guys get too excited about throwing the word treason at a former President, I want you to take a minute to remember fondly one of your all time heroes, good ol' Ronald Ray-gun. Okay, are you all in your conservative happy places with Ron? Now, say these two words over and over again: Iran + Contra.

Enjoy.

~:cheers:

[PanzerJaeger]

Of course, conservatives/Republicans read this and start drooling because Clinton imbued them with such an inferiority complex during his time as President that they still hate him for making them feel like they had small penises. So this opportunity to further villify Clinton is leapt upon as a chance to re-enlarge their phalluses.

How insightful and mature. ~:rolleyes:


But before you guys get too excited about throwing the word treason at a former President, I want you to take a minute to remember fondly one of your all time heroes, good ol' Ronald Ray-gun. Okay, are you all in your conservative happy places with Ron? Now, say these two words over and over again: Iran + Contra.

And.. ? What came of Iran Contra?

[Goofball]

And.. ? What came of Iran Contra?

Hmmm. Let me think. I believe the upshot of the matter was that a henchman took the fall and Reagan tip-toed through the tulips denying all knowledge and responsibility. Although given that he was senile at the time, he probably wasn't even lying.

Sound about right?

[PanzerJaeger]

Hmmm. Let me think. I believe the upshot of the matter was that a henchman took the fall and Reagan tip-toed through the tulips denying all knowledge and responsibility. Although given that he was senile at the time, he probably wasn't even lying.

Sound about right?

So basically you have innuendo and allegations and nothing else against Reagan, oh and some insults. What makes you any different than the original poster?

[Tribesman]

So basically you have innuendo and allegations and nothing else against Reagan,
Well I know you consider a treasonous scumbag like Ollie North a great patriot Panzer , but the thing is , if Reagan didn't know that his administration was supplying weapons to terrorists in the Lebanon in exchange for American hostages and had supplied weapons to terrorists in Iran for the release of American hostages , then he was thouroughly incompetant , if he did know then he was a traitor .
So what was the Gipper ? an idiot or a traitor , there are only two possible answers , so which is it ?

[PanzerJaeger]

So what was the Gipper ? an idiot or a traitor , there are only two possible answers , so which is it ?

An excellently framed question!

[Tribesman]

An excellently framed question!
Well Panzer , can you think of any other possible answer ?

[Redleg]

So basically you have innuendo and allegations and nothing else against Reagan,

So what was the Gipper ? an idiot or a traitor , there are only two possible answers , so which is it ?

Actually there are other possible answers - and for the choices that you provided the answer is neither.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Why are you assuming i like old ronald, I dont like him because he freezed military raises, he should have cut some money from welfare instead.

[KukriKhan]

The thread has served it's purpose, and is now re-hashing subjects not in its purview, so closed.

Thanks to all contributors.