NCAA takes PC to far

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The NCAA now has banned schools from using indian names and mascots. The Florida State Seminoles were told to change their even thought the Chief of the Seminoles asked that they be called that. In another state the fighting souix of N Dakota have also been asked to change thier name. Excuse me but isnt Dakota a souix name. And just where is the NCAA head quartered, Yeah you quessed it. Indianapollis Indiana. ~;)

[Del Arroyo]

Yeah that's pretty hypocritical and ridiculous.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Next their going to tell those people who sell their tickets above the price they paid for then not to be called scalpers ~;)

You all know of the Oklahoma sooners right? They havent been asked to change their name. Do you now why their called sooners? Because they moved into indain land SOONER than the law allowed. Also no teams named the cowboys have been asked to change their names. You would think having a team named after you would be an honor.

[Red Harvest]

Yeah, I was going to post a link to this yesterday. There are also some moves to change the names of some military aircraft as well.

It is just stupid. My step father is part Seminole and he is proud of that heritage. I view the Native American names on things as an honor to them myself as long as they are bestowed that way. I could understand being upset about Seminole adult diapers or something like that. It isn't like this is being done as an ugly or hurtful caricature.

This one will get "fixed." The NCAA just whacked one heckuva hornet's nest.

[Strike For The South]

Red harvest i know what youre talking about norad just changed some of its indian names to... this makes me sick :embarassed:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Hey strike I hear next PETA is going to ask them to change the name of the Texas Longhorns as it is seen as being derogatory and hurtful to the beasts. ~;)

[Strike For The South]

Hey strike I hear next PETA is going to ask them to change the name of the Texas Longhorns as it is seen as being derogatory and hurtful to the beasts. ~;)

~:cheers: Good the aggies are much better ~:cheers:
But my hate of PETA overshadowes my hate of Texas so let them keep there name

[Al Khalifah]

There are also some moves to change the names of some military aircraft as well.
That means just about all the US Army helicopters! Apache, Chinook, Commanche... Does this mean that Britain has to rename its Apaches as well or any of the other countries that have bought helicopters?

[The Stranger]

whats NCAA about anyway???

[Strike For The South]

whats NCAA about anyway???

National Collegiate Athletic Association college sports

[The Stranger]

so why are they trying to get rid of indian names???

[Proletariat]

They believe it's degrading to Native Americans, Umeu.

This still isn't as stupid (close) as when the Bullets changed their name to the Wizards here in DC because they felt the basketball team's name promoted gun violence.

[The Stranger]

degrading in the way that it is negative for natives. sorry i'm not familiar with the word.

hmm yeah both sound equaly stupid to me.

[el_slapper]

The Bullets thing I can understand - and it was the team itself that made the choice.

For that NCAA things... God, people are getting paid for that??? ~:confused: ~:eek: :furious3:

[The Stranger]

i dont see why it promotes guns, but if it was the team that changed the name nothing is wrong.

[Proletariat]

The Bullets thing I can understand - and it was the team itself that made the choice.


It's nice that they weren't forced, but just because it's their own decision doesn't mean it isn't stupid. Have firework accidents rised since the inception of the Houston Rockets?

Plus, the Wizards uniforms are a little... You know. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[The Stranger]

yeah, but what is "They believe it's degrading to Native Americans."

[Proletariat]

There is some residual guilt over the way Indians were treated over the last few centuries here. Naming sports teams after their tribes is for some reason, considered insensitive.

[The Stranger]

phahaahhahahwhuhahahahhaaha ~D. have there been any indians complaining???

The NCAA now has banned schools from using indian names and mascots. The Florida State Seminoles were told to change their even thought the Chief of the Seminoles asked that they be called that. In another state the fighting souix of N Dakota have also been asked to change thier name. Excuse me but isnt Dakota a souix name. And just where is the NCAA head quartered, Yeah you quessed it. Indianapollis Indiana.

how do they explain that

[PanzerJaeger]

As Ive said before, the people who drive these "insensitivity crusades" are almost never the ones affected by the percieved insensitivity.

[drone]

The Washington Bullets changed their name mainly because our great nation's capitol, Washington DC, has an extremely high murder rate. Some people thought it was too easy to make a joke, and they were right ~D . But the Wizards?!? I think they were originally called the Bullets because an arms manufacturer started the team.

Jeb Bush (Dubya's brother and governor of Florida) is on the side of the FSU Seminoles and the tribe here. Should get interesting. I don't really see a problem with tribe names or honorifics (Braves, Chiefs, etc.). However, the Washington Redskins (what is it with the nicknames of this city's sports teams?) probably needs to go. It's easy for me to say that, since I'm not a Skins fan. But imagine the uproar if we had the Atlanta Crackers or the Detroit N-words.

[Red Harvest]

However, the Washington Redskins (what is it with the nicknames of this city's sports teams?) probably needs to go. It's easy for me to say that, since I'm not a Skins fan. But imagine the uproar if we had the Atlanta Crackers or the Detroit N-words.

I'm not so sure. At least in modern usage I don't recall hearing redskin used as a derogatory term. Perhaps it is viewed differently in the Native American communities as a whole, I've not heard one way or another. It certainly doesn't carry the connotations of the other two in my mind. I see it almost the same as "caucasians" or "celts" or something in that ilk. Neutral despite referring to a skin color. Where I probably differ is that I don't see this particular reference to skin color as being particularly negative. It is being used as a substitute for "warriors" or something like that. To me it's the equivalent of saying "Redcoats."

[Red Harvest]

Here is a case of PC for you that is funny and true:

My father-in-law works in Thailand occasionally. There is a native fruit in Southeast Asia called the Durian. Durians have an incredibly strong smell, and it is not a pleasant one--at least to most. Odor wise, think of an extremely strong fragrance that is half peach/half old onion and you will have the concept even if the actual fragrance is different. Durians are tasty, but an acquired taste--and probably most don't like them. Let me emphasize the penetrating power of this fragrance, it is saturating and overwhelming.

Around Thailand, Singapore, etc. cabs, buses, trains, and shops have signs that say, "No Durians!" or have the little Durian graphic with a circle and cross through it. You can be heavily fined for disobeying the rules on public conveyance.

So a coworker of my father-in-law who was either U.S. or European came to work in Thailand, and had always had a strong social activist streak. He was outraged by the "No Durians!" signs and couldn't believe that this blatant discrimination was accepted, and said to his friends that something must be done about it. It was then that he learned that Durians were fruit, not PEOPLE. ~D ~D ~D

[t1master]

so what about rivers, lakes, townships, streets... there are soooo many waterways and cities and such that all have the original 'indian' names.

[drone]

I'm not so sure. At least in modern usage I don't recall hearing redskin used as a derogatory term. Perhaps it is viewed differently in the Native American communities as a whole, I've not heard one way or another. It certainly doesn't carry the connotations of the other two in my mind. I see it almost the same as "caucasians" or "celts" or something in that ilk. Neutral despite referring to a skin color. Where I probably differ is that I don't see this particular reference to skin color as being particularly negative. It is being used as a substitute for "warriors" or something like that. To me it's the equivalent of saying "Redcoats."I don't see/hear the term redskin in modern usage either. The outcry over the name (happens every year, should be heating up soon with the season about to start) usually generates some press in the city, and the Redskins' trademarks are being challenged in court, so it must annoy enough people to make it interesting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071501700.html?nav=rss_email/components
Sorry for the C+P, but you need to register for the Washington Post, so...
Redskins Name Can Be Challenged
Appeals Court Ruling Keeps Trademark Battle Alive

By Karlyn Barker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 16, 2005; Page B01

Native American groups won another chance yesterday to challenge trademarks covering the name and logo of the Washington Redskins, which the groups say disparage millions of people.

The football franchise had appeared to prevail in the longstanding trademark fight when a federal judge ruled in its favor nearly two years ago. But yesterday the U.S. Court of Appeals said the case deserves another look because one of the plaintiffs might have been unfairly denied the right to pursue it.

"This keeps the case alive," said John Dossett, general counsel for the National Congress of American Indians, which represents 250 tribes.

The dispute involves six trademarks owned by Pro-Football Inc., the corporate owner of the team. The oldest is "The Redskins," written in a stylized script in 1967. Other trademarks were registered in 1974, 1978 and 1990, including one for the word "Redskinettes." The Native Americans said the trademarks should be taken away because they insult them and hold them up to ridicule.

The appellate ruling hinged on the question of whether the Native Americans waited too long to file their challenge. U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly ruled in October 2003 that the seven plaintiffs had no standing to complain because they did not formally object until 25 years had elapsed since the date of the first trademark.

But the appellate judges found that one plaintiff still could have standing because he was only 1 year old in 1967. They sent the case back to Kollar-Kotelly for review.

The outcome ultimately could affect millions of dollars in sales of Redskins paraphernalia. With a federal registration for trademarks, team owner Daniel M. Snyder holds exclusive rights to use the team name and logo on T-shirts, caps and other items, worth an estimated $5 million a year.

Cancellation of the trademarks would not force the Redskins to stop selling those products, but it would limit the team's ability to take action against merchants who infringed on the trademark.

The Redskins have argued that the name, dating to 1933, is meant to honor Native Americans. Robert Raskopf, an attorney for Pro-Football Inc., said the organization disagrees with the appellate ruling and is considering its options for challenging it.

"We look forward to ultimately prevailing," he said. Asked whether the Redskins might consider changing the team's name, he replied, "Absolutely not."

The legal battle began 13 years ago when the Native Americans, led by Cheyenne activist and District resident Suzan Shown Harjo, filed a complaint with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The complaint cited a 1946 federal law that prohibits the government from registering a trademark that disparages any race, religion or group.

The agency's Trademark Trial and Appeal Board sided with Harjo in 1999 and canceled the highly lucrative trademarks. But Pro-Football Inc. challenged the board's decision with a lawsuit filed at the federal courthouse in Washington.

Kollar-Kotelly cited other factors in ruling in favor of the football franchise. She said the trademark board relied on dated, incomplete and irrelevant evidence. The appellate court did not address those issues yesterday, focusing only on the issue of timing -- a concept known as laches.

The appellate ruling instructed Kollar-Kotelly to reevaluate the claim of the youngest plaintiff in the case, Manteo Romero. It was issued by judges David B. Sentelle, A. Raymond Randolph and David S. Tatel.

"Why should laches bar all Native Americans from challenging Pro-Football's 'Redskins' trademark registrations because some Native Americans may have slept on their rights?" the judges asked.

Romero, 38, an artist who lives in Pojoaque Pueblo, N.M., near Santa Fe, called the ongoing legal battle "a moral issue. . . . The use of the mascot is damaging to Native American peoples, who need to be respected for who they are instead of being stereotyped," he said.The gist is: Derogatory trademarks can be cancelled, and then the team would have no protection against knock-off products. You may have noticed that last year, the team's helmets used a spear (similiar to FSU's), instead of the usual Indian head. I think this was a preeptive move against the trademark case.


It was then that he learned that Durians were fruit, not PEOPLE.So? Durians have rights too!!!!! Let the rallies begin! ~D

[Tribesman]

OMG , are you trying to avoid th cut/paste format ? how old is this political correctness gone mad story ? ~D ~D ~D

[Redleg]

OMG , are you trying to avoid th cut/paste format ? how old is this political correctness gone mad story ? ~D ~D ~D

Just because I am a smart hoofed animal today - the date line is in the story for those that care to read it.

but for the visually challenged of us

Saturday, July 16, 2005; Page B01

[Marshal Murat]

Well, the problem with the Seminole thing is that the Oklahoma Seminoles have a problem.
Yes I said Oklahoma Seminoles. During the wars, some Seminoles surrendered, and were sent to Oklahoma. After that, the two tribes have been somewhat apprehensive of each other. The Oklahoma found oil, the Florida found gambling.
Here's some history on the Seminoles of Florida State.
The name was chosen among the names, Statesmen, Tarpoons, Rebels, and Crackers (name of the settlers who settled northern florida, name came from the crack of their bull whip.)
After being chosen, the Florida Seminoles approved, and the Chief and Council. The uniform Osceola (mascot for Florida State, riding the horse Renegade) wears, was made by the Florida tribe.

Here in Tallahassee, it was really antagonizing, as the Notre Dame mascot (Fightin' Irish) was not charged at all, despite the hostile nature of the leprechaun symbol, and the inference that all Irish are fighting (not like they don't)

[Nelson]

As a Maryland Terrapin fan, I want to express my solidarity with my ACC comrades at Florida State. This is as bogus as all hell.

Go Terps!

And on this one occasion, Go Noles!

[drone]

And clearer heads prevail (sort of):
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2141197

Florida State threatened to sue over postseason ban
Associated Press

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- The NCAA will allow Florida State to use its Seminoles nickname in postseason play, removing the school from a list of colleges with American Indian nicknames that were restricted by an NCAA decision earlier this month.

The NCAA said it was recognizing the relationship Florida State has long enjoyed with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which assists the university with its pageantry and celebration of its culture and supports the school's use of its name.

"The staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor," NCAA senior vice president Bernard Franklin said in a statement released Tuesday. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."

Florida State president T.K. Wetherell had threatened to sue the NCAA immediately after its Aug. 5 announcement that the school's highly visible nickname, "Seminoles," was defined as "hostile and abusive" by a committee.

"The two things we requested in our appeal were granted," Wetherell said. "I'm ready to play football, start school and have classes begin and all that kind of stuff."

Lee Hinkle, vice president for university relations, said the school e-mailed 250,000 alumni and friends of the NCAA decision.

"I don't think anything has brought them together quite as much as this," said Wetherell. "Whether you're a Gator, Hurricane or Bulldog, those entities believe it's a Florida decision."

Gov. Jeb Bush also applauded the NCAA's reversal.

"When you make a mistake it's important to realize it and move on," Bush said. "They came to the right conclusion ... the Seminole mascot and the tradition at Florida State, is not offensive to anyone."

The NCAA said it would handle reviews from other schools on a case-by-case basis. The Illinois Fighting Illini, Utah Utes and North Dakota Fighting Sioux are among other prominent school nicknames that remain affected by the edict.

Under the NCAA restrictions, teams with American Indian nicknames would not be able to display them on uniforms or have their mascots perform in postseason tournaments.

"The NCAA remains committed to ensuring an atmosphere of respect and sensitivity for all who participate in and attend our championships," Franklin said in the statement.

Wetherell said he has had some contact with the other schools.

"I think they [NCAA] understand, there will be other requests," Wetherell said. As an ACC grad myself (Georgia Tech, go Jackets!), I'm happy this got resolved in favor of FSU. Now maybe the NCAA can get back to doing something important, like increasing the graduation rate of Division I football and basketball programs...