What is the most important Event in European History

[Redleg]

Since I spotted this particlur question concerning the United States History - and my European History outside of WW1 and WW2 is not as informed as I would like it - I thought maybe a discussion on what is the most important event or group of event (to be fair to European History) in the development of the world.

My prespective is skewed from the viewpoint of the United States. From my prespective the Exploration and Colonization of the New World (The Americas) had a dymantic impact upon the course of world events.

However I am also thinking the Greek experiment in Democracy is also one of the most important historical events in the development of the world.

[Pindar]

I don't know how broad a brush we are allowed to paint with given you mentioned event and groups of events as qualifiable, but I would argue the rise of the rational tradition (5th/4th Century Greece) as the most important.

[Louis VI the Fat]

If we are talking about a single event the French Revolution. Sorry, skewed perspective here too.

For a chain of events, the flowering of the twelfth century. The century Europe was really born in, IMO. From here on, Europe started on it's radically new course which would eventually lead to the modern world.

[Templar Knight]

I would say the Franco-Prussian War. That began the long, slow military buildup in Europe, allowed Germany to become a single nation (massively influencing European affairs), and started a growing hatred between nations, which reached a head in 1914, WWI. The damage brought upon Germany afterwards caused Hitler's rise/WWII, and you know the story from there, Cold War, terrorism.....

[Redleg]

I don't know how broad a brush we are allowed to paint with given you mentioned event and groups of events as qualifiable, but I would argue the rise of the rational tradition (5th/4th Century Greece) as the most important.

I think you have to approach European History with a fairly large brush stroke considering some of the events - like the Hundred Years War.

So yes a broad brush stroke would be apporiate (SP) in this particlur thread given the scope of time and number of cultures involved.

[yesdachi]

Nice topic. It will be interesting to see the difference between posts from the variety of nationalities around here.

The WW’s really set the stage for who Europe is today but there is so much more that happened… The rise and fall of the Roman Empire, The Philosophy, medical advancements, inventions, Mel Gibson in Bravehart ~;) , etc. but the one thing that impacts everyday life for so many people I think is...

The rise and spread of the Catholic/Christian religion.

Now that’s a broad brush stroke. ~:)

I think there are a lot more topics that are more interesting to me but when I think of an event as a stone and its results as the waves caused by it being tossed into a pond, the near fanatical :charge: spread of Christianity (or whatever term it should be called) was a pretty huge stone that has reached every corner of the world.

[Hurin_Rules]

I would have to say the Fall of Rome.

It meant Europe would not be another China; it gave rise to multiple new kingdoms that competed with one another; it gave Europe a written heritage but did not dictate how Europeans interpreted it; it gave rise to struggles between Church and State; it undermined slavery and reoriented the European economy northwards; it transformed social relations, providing fertile ground for everything from feudalism to city-states; it united Germanic vigor and concepts of personal freedom with Greco-Roman language and learning; it not only allowed a new Europe to be born (in the age of Charlemagne and, much more strongly, in the 11th/12th centuries) but also gave it its educaton.

P.S. Can't wait for Barbarian Invasions!

P. P. S. Honourable mention goes to the Industrial Revolution.

[cunctator]

Most important chain of events:
The devolpment of modern science, especially physics and chemistry since the renaisance. that really changed the face of civilization.

[Grey_Fox]

Magna Carta? Limited the powers of the English King. Set in motion the movement to democracy.

French Revolution is a worthwhile mention.

Perhaps when the Mongols went home after crushing the Polish and Hungarian armies.

[Aenlic]

Interesting topic.

I'll go with the sack of Rome by the Celtic tribes under Brennus in 387 BCE. This massive humiliation and defeat of the fledgling Roman state, in my view, led to their militarization which in turn led to their conquest and expansion and eventually to the Empire of Rome which affected the history of all of Europe and the Mediterranean from then until now.

[Redleg]

None of that compares to the epic clash of the separate lines of the Homonid species. The Neanderthals had occupied Europe for thousands of years, but a new type of Homonid had been migrating north for a very long time: The Modern Man. It is in Europe where the Neanderthals lost the bid for existance.

It's generally agreed that the Homo Sapiens beat the Neanderthals because of superior ability to communicate, among other things. This far dwarfs the scak of rome--without Homo Sapiens, there might never have been a rome.

That might be so - the problem is that it is not recorded. So lets modify the topic just slightly to state - what is the most important event in Record European History.

I like many of the responses so far. It will be interesting to see how it develops (as more people post).

What about the Renessance (SP) Period - did the events of that period have a major impact on Europe - the histories I have read talk a lot about how the splintering (SP) of the Catholic Church into seperate faiths had some impact on what was going on. Martin Luther seem to have a major impact on Northern parts of Europe.

[Soulforged]

This is a really difficult question, because Europe is the craddle of civilization, almost everything that happened there was important. But for modern history i would say two (closely realted): the French Revolution (and all it could have been if the buorgeoisie didn't take the power) and the creation of the Commune of Paris, one of the most relevant evidence that communism works (sure the central power on Paris wiped them out of the planet when they changed their minds and wanted them under their dominion...)

[Kagemusha]

I think the most Important was the creation of Roman Empire.They used Hellenistic science, philosophy and Gladius,to create a Europe from various tribes. :bow:

[King Henry V]

The most important event which changed European history is the birth of Christ.

[cegorach]

Chrystianity in all its consequences from liberating millions of slaves to the French Revolution and the fall of the SU. ~;)

[Adrian II]

I think the most Important was the creation of Roman Empire.They used Hellenistic science, philosophy and Gladius,to create a Europe from various tribes. :bow:How would you answer Hurin's point that the fall of Rome is most important because it led to scores of (radically) different and often competing Europes?

I couldn't answer the initial poster's question because of its essentialist nature. If you want to know what 'made' Europe, I think several important developments must be pointed out, among which Pindar's birth of rationality, Cegorach's rise (and fall...) of Christianity and Hurin's 'creative' fragmentation since Charlemagne would all rate at the same level of importance, along with a host of (as yet unmentioned) events, from the scientific break-throughs of a Huygens, Newton, Freud or Pasteur and the political breakthrough of Socialism all the way down to the horror of 'Auschwitz' and all that it entails.

[CBR]

Hm there are lots of important events in European history...

I would say the Reformation as that stopped the power of the church and from that point science had more freedom to develop. It also opened up the society which made more free thinking possible which eventually lead to democracy.


CBR

[caesar44]

If Hitler have won the war , all of the above was to be just a far memory...some of us even could not be here .
So 1942 to 1944/5 - the most important years/event in Europe (and in North Africa and the M. East) .

[Kagemusha]

How would you answer Hurin's point that the fall of Rome is most important because it led to scores of (radically) different and often competing Europes?

I couldn't answer the initial poster's question because of its essentialist nature. If you want to know what 'made' Europe, I think several important developments must be pointed out, among which Pindar's birth of rationality, Cegorach's rise (and fall...) of Christianity and Hurin's 'creative' fragmentation since Charlemagne would all rate at the same level of importance, along with a host of (as yet unmentioned) events, from the scientific break-throughs of a Huygens, Newton, Freud or Pasteur and the political breakthrough of Socialism all the way down to the horror of 'Auschwitz' and all that it entails.

Im aware of this.I thought only to post my opinion.Its very hard to name just one event.

[Redleg]

I couldn't answer the initial poster's question because of its essentialist nature. If you want to know what 'made' Europe, I think several important developments must be pointed out, among which Pindar's birth of rationality, Cegorach's rise (and fall...) of Christianity and Hurin's 'creative' fragmentation since Charlemagne would all rate at the same level of importance, along with a host of (as yet unmentioned) events, from the scientific break-throughs of a Huygens, Newton, Freud or Pasteur and the political breakthrough of Socialism all the way down to the horror of 'Auschwitz' and all that it entails.

I actually like that answer Adrian, it shows a better understanding of History then most. The course of development of any culture, group of nations, or even a single nation is based upon many different events. To narrow down it down to one event is indeed essentialist in nature.

But its an interesting discussion because of that - it shows what individuals think about what was the most important thing to them concerning the history. There is a philisophical (SP) reason for doing this - but that would be a Backroom thread not a Monastery one.

[Meneldil]

French Revolution
Retreat of the Mongols in the 13th century
Fall of the Roman Empire
Reformation

And so on... you can't really say there's a 'most important event', because unlike America history (no offense intended here), there are a whole lot of different point of views there. As a French, I'd say the French Revolution/Napoleonic Era, but people from Italy and Greece might say 'the beginning/end of the roman empire', people from Eastern europe might say 'the retreat of the mongol hords' or 'the Yalta treaty',etc.

[Redleg]

And so on... you can't really say there's a 'most important event', because unlike America history (no offense intended here), there are a whole lot of different point of views there. As a French, I'd say the French Revolution/Napoleonic Era, but people from Italy and Greece might say 'the beginning/end of the roman empire', people from Eastern europe might say 'the retreat of the mongol hords' or 'the Yalta treaty',etc.

You missed the point I believe - its all about the different points of view - and it will be based upon what regions the individual lives in.

[Adrian II]

Its very hard to name just one event.Exactly. For the same reason, I am sure that Hurin would agree with you that without the institutional inheritance of the Roman Empire, in particular Roman law, the long period of fragmentation that followed wouldn't have been nearly as fruitful.

[Steppe Merc]

I think the most important event in European history be the apreance of the heavy armored lancer pionered by the Sarmatians and Parthians that the Goths and otherr Germanics, as well as the Romans adopted.
Without it, there would be no knights, and the warfare of Europe would have gone down a very different path.

[Meneldil]

You missed the point I believe - its all about the different points of view - and it will be based upon what regions the individual lives in.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding the question. I'd have to say that the French Revolution was really important, but obviously, I'm biased here :bow:

On a larger scale, then I'done could say that the 9th century (as a group of events) was fairly important, since it was more or less the era that saw the creation of many european modern states (France, Germany and Italy with the collapse of the Carolingian Empire, Poland, England - I think the Anglo-saxons more or less ruled all of modern day England in the 9th C -, Scotland - I think the Kingdom of Alba was 'created' in 843 - The Scandinavian States, Bohemia, Hungary - not sure about this though, the Magyars might have settled there a bit later, in the early 10th - , Russia with the beginnings of Kievan Rus, and Spain - as the different Spanish Kingdoms saw the Reconquista as one of their main aim.)

[Redleg]

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding the question. I'd have to say that the French Revolution was really important, but obviously, I'm biased here :bow:



No problem - since I wanted to see how others viewed their own history or the history of the world. That is why I made the question so generalized.


Exactly. For the same reason, I am sure that Hurin would agree with you that without the institutional inheritance of the Roman Empire, in particular Roman law, the long period of fragmentation that followed wouldn't have been nearly as fruitful.

So, If I understand this statment correctly - the insitutions established by Rome have survived the ages and most modern government institutions follow the Roman model.

I think this is correct in part. Take for instance Modern Armies - while they l organization of squads, plts, and on up are different then the Roman model - the overall concept of having an established military organization broken down to managable levels traces itself back to the Roman Legions. There were other armies that might have done the same thing - but I do believe the Roman Model is the main basis for our current military organization. At least it is in the United States.

Roman Law models - I am not so sure of - but given the military model - I can concide that point.

[Kagemusha]

Here is short article about Roman Legacy (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_1741502785_10/Roman_Empire.html#s78) .Also many great modern cities of Europe was founded by Romans. :bow:

[Adrian II]

So, If I understand this statement correctly - the institutions established by Rome have survived the ages and most modern government institutions follow the Roman model.In one way or another, many later European kingdoms and principalities, institutions and schools of thought borrowed heavily from their Roman predecessors: in military affairs, in architecture (good point there, Kagemusha), literature, law -- you name it.

When it comes to the many diverging European traditions that each took up this Roman inheritance, the differences count as much as the similarities of course. That's where Hurin's notion of the importance of competing European nations, institutions and traditions comes in. The shared Roman inheritance, in combination with the shared religion of Christianity, helped to forge a sense of common destiny for the continent. On the other hand the competition for riches, power, empire and prestige drove Europeans and their nations in very different directions.

The lack of such inherent competition would explain, for instance, why the Chinese never bothered to develop their maritime and naval capacity after Admiral Zheng's remarkable odyssee, discussed elsewhere in the Monastery.

[Redleg]

Thanks AdrianII - going to have to find that thread.

[The Stranger]

the law from now is actually napoleons, but before him romans and actually greek.

[Steppe Merc]

How were the Europeans influenced by the military Romans? I mean, they fought nothing like them. They fought like Sarmatians and Parthians.

[Redleg]

How were the Europeans influenced by the military Romans? I mean, they fought nothing like them. They fought like Sarmatians and Parthians.

A lot of it goes to the formations of units and ranks. Was it done throughout the history of Europe after the fall of Rome - not an expert enough to say - but when the gun armies started and rank structures were implemented - then I have to say that came from the Roman Military roots of most of Europe.

Take for instance the structure of the United States Army. In the history of the Non-Commissioned Officer - they trace the roots of the NCO back to the Roman Legions.

[Colovion]

The Fall of the Roman Empire.

[Steppe Merc]

Red, yeah, the gun armies I suppose would be.

[Gregoshi]

I'll take a shot and suggest an off-the-wall event: the invention of the printing press by Gutenberg. I'm foundering for the words to support this notion, but it had far reaching and broad impact on Europe (and the world) since its invention and up to this day.

[Adrian II]

I'll take a shot and suggest an off-the-wall event: the invention of the printing press by Gutenberg. I'm foundering for the words to support this notion, but it had far reaching and broad impact on Europe (and the world) since its invention and up to this day.Why not? It was a huge leap, just like the 'invention' of the water wheel or gun powder. And what about -- now, don't laugh --the invention of spectacles in thirteenth century Italy?

In his book The Wealth and Poverty of Nations science historian David Landes makes a very convincing case that revolutionary changes came about or were made possible by this invention. The key to its revolutionary role was a multiplyer effect: corrective lenses made it possible for craftsmen to keep working and transmitting their accumulated knowledge and experience to the next generation for at least twenty years more than they used to. And the visual precision made possible by the lenses resulted in new inventions and the constant improvement of old ones such as telescopes, gauges, micrometers, microscopes, mechanical clocks and other precision tools including, of course, eyeglasses! In a sense, the very nature of the eyeglass enabled its own perfection over the course of the centuries.

After all, isn't history all in the eyeglass of the beholder?


http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/342eyeglasses.jpg
Pisan eyeglasses, 13th century

[Meneldil]

The roman influenced (sp?) the law system, the language, and on a larger scale the culture of many modern country, but I don't think they had a huge impact on the modern military organisation.

On the other hand, the Napoleonic 'Code Civil' (written around 1809 I think)was written by roman law and germanic law experts. A lot of those laws were already being used under the roman rule in southern gaul.

Things are probably different in northern europe, where germanic laws and anglo-norman common law are probably the basis of the current law systems

[Hurin_Rules]

Exactly. For the same reason, I am sure that Hurin would agree with you that without the institutional inheritance of the Roman Empire, in particular Roman law, the long period of fragmentation that followed wouldn't have been nearly as fruitful.

Yes, indeed. The reason I chose the fall rather than the rise of the Empire is that European civilzation is usually seen as first arising AFTER Rome, in the period of Charlemagne. Before that, the civilization that dominated the area was that of Greece and Rome, centred on the Mediterranean rather than on Europe. So if you're talking about the birth of Europe, the first event really is the fall. Europe was heavily dependent on the heritage of Greece and Rome, but it was something quite different than both.

[eadeater]

The Russian Revolution(s). These two events of 1917 put a full stop to the old ways in Europe; the last completely autocratic ruler, Tzar Nicholas II was deposed. In October the Bolsheviks took power and this event would shape not only European but world history for most of the 20th century. It allowed the great struggle between two ideologies to take place, and helped to shape modern Europe.

[Knight Templar]

I think it would be fall of WRE, renaissance as big improvements in science and art, completely different view of the world, and crusades. When living next to Arabs, Europeans improved their science (medicine, chemistry and astronomy the most), started to grow many new plants (apricots), met their culture....

[Redleg]

I am liking the inventions of eyeglasses theory.

Which actually leads to more then I first thought when first reading it.

I wonder if anyone has taken a close look at the timeline of historical events along with when certain inventions or scientific discoveries were done to see if there is a corelation (SP)?

[VAE VICTUS]

i would argue that there is no sinlge most important event in european history.some events are more important,but each relies on the one before it to make it possible.something like that!

[Soulforged]

the law from now is actually napoleons, but before him romans and actually greek.

The law is not from napoleons. Roman law was taken by Feurbach who remade it so it would fit in the new absolutist state. An to talk about modern law is too abroad, but Feurbach is considered the father of modern law. Here for example law was influenced by german authors, who are probably the best voices on that subject. I think that in USA and England (being the system totally different, specially in trials) it was influenced by Von Lizst, but i'm not sure about that.
And the discipline, wich is the most important instrument to make loyal armies and society in general, was some way discovered by the greeks first (spartans took it too incredible limits), then Roman culture was expanded by Rome trought all Europe, and eventually the discipline became standard thing of all armies. The absolutism improved it by creating for the first time an national army totally loyal, mostly on Holland.

[Soulforged]

[QUOTE=AdrianII]After all, isn't history all in the eyeglass of the beholder?
[QUOTE]

No i think that it's beauty ~D ~;)

[English assassin]

Is "the Enlightenment" an event? As much as the hundred years war, I suppose, so my vote goes for the Enlightenment. The end of superstition and the dawning of rationality. (yes yes, I know. That was the promise anyway.)

The legacy of the Enlightenment was and is huge, and with no disrespect to the fall of Rome, the Enlightenment ideas remain relevant and unfulfilled today. Indeed, they arein alarming retreat before the forces of superstition, which it seems, like fascism, has to be defeated afresh each generation.

[Gemenii XIII]

Battle of Zama outside of Europe

But there are so many other important European events