View Full Version : An other "Next TotalWar Game" thread
I think it should be Fantasy! :charge:
I think it should be no-franchise fantasy! :charge:
Then all CA must focus on is game play.
And all players must focus on is game play.
And all modders must focus on is game play.
It is hard enough (down!) to get a game history-correct or fun to play. ~D
Those mods who focus on game play only, getting to abstracted from realism in RTW setting. Those who focus on realism only get little fun.
BI demo may be hint that they are thinking away from realism more, because units light up "level up" style when gain experience. ~:eek:
So this it what I think. all stats, weapon, region, faction, culture, mount, everything just designed for best possible game, not for correctness to be dissected.
I like history and learning and that as much as next man, but I like most a fun game! ~D ~D
And Total War Type Game is great!! ~:cheers: potentially!! ~:cheers:
Afro Thunder
08-17-2005, 14:38
You're gonna get yelled at...
scorillo
08-17-2005, 15:15
a WW1 total war it will be a great idea....followed as a expansion WW2...i'm bored (and i think i'm not the only one here) of these ancient and medieval total wars
bubbanator
08-17-2005, 15:37
I think that WWI and WWII would be fantastic ideas for the next Total War Games.
WWI has more countries that played major roles in the conflict. But WWII would have several countries that didn't have much of an effect in the war. These would be a real challange to play as.
However it would be difficult to get all areas of the world into it. It would probably just have to be the European theatre. In Civilization 2 there was a mini campaign for WWII. That had America starting out with several cities in the east coast. That was the edge of the map. Something like this could be implimented into a WWI or WWII total war game.
Gameplay on the battle map would be difficult to perfect though...
I think it should be Fantasy! :charge:
I think it should be no-franchise fantasy! :charge:
oh man...my flying pegasus cavalry just totally destroyed your dragons. of course, elephants oops, i mean dragons, would run amok easily...
nope sorry...just doesnt cut it for me
If the next TW game is going to use the RTW engine, as has been reported, I would imagine that it will be in a largely pre-gunpowder era. However, given that they have covered the ancient and medieval era, it's not obvious to me what era is left.
I hope CA don't move into fantasy, because - despite the complaints - I think they make the most fun historical wargames around. (They aim at mass market strategy games, but IMO are historical wargamers at heart and leave enough of the hardcore stuff in their games to satisfy that niche, at least after modding).
Ianofsmeg16
08-17-2005, 16:55
If the next TW game is going to use the RTW engine, as has been reported, I would imagine that it will be in a largely pre-gunpowder era. However, given that they have covered the ancient and medieval era, it's not obvious to me what era is left.
I hope CA don't move into fantasy, because - despite the complaints - I think they make the most fun historical wargames around. (They aim at mass market strategy games, but IMO are historical wargamers at heart and leave enough of the hardcore stuff in their games to satisfy that niche, at least after modding).
What about Napoleonic times, that can and is being implemented on the RTW engine, all they'd need to do was get the gunpowder animations which is basically just smoke, then ta da!
For fun reasons, i want a World War: Total War, it would be awesome, but hard to make.
What about Napoleonic times, that can and is being implemented on the RTW engine, all they'd need to do was get the gunpowder animations which is basically just smoke, then ta da!
Yeah, I guess. The "Lords" modders did it with MTW afterall. The Napoleonic era is certainly the most obvious era for another TW game, in terms of the suitability of the strategic situation - multiple Great Powers - and mass appeal. The commerical waters have been muddied a little by Cossacks 2 and Imperial Glory, although neither can hold a candle to a TW game IMO.
Being my favoriate era, I'd be happy to see the Napoleonic era selected.
But I rather fear that a Napoleonic Total War would be very ahistorical - with a RTW engine, I suspect battles would degenerate into rapid, melee scrummages. In reality, formation was everything and death by bayonet accounted for something like less than 1% of fatalities. If these fears are realised, I guess modders might be able to tweak it into something more historical.
I think that WWI and WWII would be fantastic ideas for the next Total War Games.
WWI has more countries that played major roles in the conflict. But WWII would have several countries that didn't have much of an effect in the war. These would be a real challange to play as.
However it would be difficult to get all areas of the world into it. It would probably just have to be the European theatre. In Civilization 2 there was a mini campaign for WWII. That had America starting out with several cities in the east coast. That was the edge of the map. Something like this could be implimented into a WWI or WWII total war game.
Gameplay on the battle map would be difficult to perfect though...
I think there would be too little diversity between the factions in a WWI/II TW, IMO.
Personally I`m hoping for a Persia: Total War or something like that for TW4. I like the balance between realism and gameplay TW has right now, although the gameplay could be improved quite a bit, without changing to fantasy.
King Mon
08-17-2005, 19:02
i wouldnt buy a world war 1/2 game, i prefer swords to guns guns are just to easy...
Ianofsmeg16
08-17-2005, 19:20
Yeah, I guess. The "Lords" modders did it with MTW afterall. The Napoleonic era is certainly the most obvious era for another TW game, in terms of the suitability of the strategic situation - multiple Great Powers - and mass appeal. The commerical waters have been muddied a little by Cossacks 2 and Imperial Glory, although neither can hold a candle to a TW game IMO.
Being my favoriate era, I'd be happy to see the Napoleonic era selected.
But I rather fear that a Napoleonic Total War would be very ahistorical - with a RTW engine, I suspect battles would degenerate into rapid, melee scrummages. In reality, formation was everything and death by bayonet accounted for something like less than 1% of fatalities. If these fears are realised, I guess modders might be able to tweak it into something more historical.
Yeah, they should bring back Historical Campaigns, then one of them could be you acting out as Richard Sharpe fighting in the Penninsular war!
Also i thing the Lordz have cracked gunpowder for RTW aswell
Another thing i'd like to see...a more personalised feel to the units, basically just being able to name units "the Scots Greys" or the Famous "78th Highlanders" not just Line infantry or Heavy cavalry all the time
A Knights of honour-style camp map, with different levels
Level 1: Overview of the World: Huge map but only has province details and cities on it
Level 2: Continent Map: RTW Map at the moment, more detailed than lvl 1 with armies, spies and diplomats etc.
Level 3 : Country Map: Extremely detailed map with villages, towns and cities that all play a different role in running your country, also add Churches, farmhouses and Manor houses (another thing from KOH) onto this level
Battle map: Battle maps should be un-restricted or at least huge, ecompassing everything you see on level 3 into the battle map e.g. If you Can see Plymouth, Dartmoor and the severn estuary on Level 3 then all of that should be incorperated
Far more complex diplomacy system, e.g. Denmark would no just Spontainiously attack Britain if they had an alliance, it would ally with say France, wait for Britain to attack france then slowly break ff from britain.
Just my thoughts...anyone agree?
Afro Thunder
08-17-2005, 19:39
If they do make a WWI or WWII Total War game, we'd better have turns that last a shorter amount of time than 6 months. Imagine, just 12 turns and the war is already over! :dizzy2:
bodidley
08-17-2005, 19:55
The effectiveness of firepower and its accuracy at varying ranges, plus the effects of cavalry and artillery, add in a splash of misconceptions, and you have some serious balancing problems for the Napoleonic era. It would be difficult to effectively simulate any game with the Total War engine in an era where seeing a target means hitting a target, so World War games are unlikely. I'm not so sure most Total War fans would take to a fantasy game, or that CA could compete with the LOTR games. An early gunpowder game, say 1450-1700, might work well with the engine. A "Shogun II" or a "Medieval II" might not be entirely out of the question either.
a WW1 total war it will be a great idea....followed as a expansion WW2...i'm bored (and i think i'm not the only one here) of these ancient and medieval total wars
IMO that is hard to do in TW style; if a good one it might be something like Panzer General - but it won't be TW than - :embarassed: ... maybe you just try another game ~:confused: .........
RTW King
08-17-2005, 20:15
I don't think WW One: Total War would work. If you didn't want to be accurate and sit and watch soldiers sitting in trenches, you would have 60 tanks charging the 100 enemy riflemen, or your machine gunners marching up to the enemy in formation then opening up fire on each other. ~D As much as it would be funny, I don't think it would work on a total war engine.
The Stranger
08-17-2005, 20:19
yeah i'd like that but to keep the TW spirit up we should get a Thebe's total war and a Hyksos invasion followed by Neantherthaler Total war followed by a Homo Sapiens Invasion but a WWI TW would be cool. but no fantasy please
I don't think WW One: Total War would work. If you didn't want to be accurate and sit and watch soldiers sitting in trenches, you would have 60 tanks charging the 100 enemy riflemen, or your machine gunners marching up to the enemy in formation then opening up fire on each other. ~D As much as it would be funny, I don't think it would work on a total war engine.
Agreed. ~:cheers:
It's the conquest of America for sure. That's where the Age of Empires series is going and Total War will surely follow.
An early gunpowder game, say 1450-1700, might work well with the engine. A "Shogun II" or a "Medieval II" might not be entirely out of the question either.
I agree but I would push the time up to 1850 or so. Rifled weapons wouldn’t suit TW at all. Once firepower is lethal enough to inhibit mounted cavalry action, a popular aspect of the games will disappear. Anything up to the mid 19th century might work. Massed rifled musketry is the end of the line for shock. Smooth bore muskets still permit charges and melee. I’d like to see the 30 Years War, ECW era.
Wouldn't it be fun to assault or defend a Vauban style fortress using TW? How cool would that be? :grin:
Of course, an updated Shogun could never fail to please.
The Stranger
08-17-2005, 21:07
yeah i agree with nelson.....but i still dream of a WoWaTW
Seamus Fermanagh
08-17-2005, 21:13
I agree with the general "poo-pooing" of a fantasy choice.
The problem with most such games is that they degenerate into a total rock-paper-scissors model of fighting. *TW tends that way, but has just enough reality blended in to keep it from being too "perfect."
On the other hand, I'd love to see CA open up the AI to modding -- even if they forced modders to clear it through them before releasing it. I suspect that the talent pool available here, in RTR, and EB would provide a lot of value in this context.
As to another in the TW series, I think you could do: Early Gunpowder, Napoleonic, Crimean War, South American Rebellion, and even US Civil War renditions within the basic framework of the engine. While one person noted that the rifled muskets of the US civil war made cavalry pretty secondary -- true -- they still fought in formations rather than in the open order that characterized subsequent conflicts. The formation component is critical to the engine.
If you want WW2 stuff, play Advanced Squad Leader. Mastering the rules shouldn't take more than a month or two. ~:)
SF
Crusader4thepeople
08-17-2005, 21:18
Yeah, they should bring back Historical Campaigns, then one of them could be you acting out as Richard Sharpe fighting in the Penninsular war!
Dont forget the battles in india, then it would be the pefect historical campaign, a shame they dropped them in rome.
Anyway Napoleonic total war would be great, but theyd need to make the close combat only a last ditch effort, with the formations beeing much more important, with special formation for some factions (like the french column) or faction spanning special attack like platoon fire and the ability to name units and more officers. The only problem i could see is the unit size, if each unit is a regiment you need a unit to be up to 1000 men strong or battalions up to 500. Anyway nap TW or MTW2 would be best
The Stranger
08-17-2005, 21:40
and a chaos thingie were when chaos strucks people start to aim at random targets and smoke alot of smoke limiting sight and increasing own casualties
Napoleonic seems to me as a likely choice, but personally I'd like to see them move to a different map (Europe for the last 2.) Possibly China/Asia or India or South America.
While I would love to see a modified TW engine applied to the US Civil War, I just don't see it as a Total War game as far as it compares to the previous Total Wars. More of a start of a spin-off series that would take advantage of much of the coding and work that was done by the Total War group.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
08-18-2005, 01:05
I'd like a Napoleanic Wars one...or even a North America colonization one.
A game based around the Warring States in China would be cool, maybe an Islamic conquest game, centered in the Middle East, with Southern Europe, North Africa, Persia, Spain, North India, maybe even into South East Asia. 700-1100 maybe. Or a Czar total war, try to conquer Russia.
AntiochusIII
08-18-2005, 05:37
A game based around the Warring States in China would be coolSeconded. Look for new TW? Look for the East! ~:)
However, may be there are more periods than the warring states to choose from. I don't want this to become the game of Qin-conquer-like-that-bloody-cheating-(snip)-Rome-of-this-TW. Besides, we needs the Mongols! ~D At least in an expansion, that is. I mean, the Huns are replacing the Mongols in BI for now but really, it's a CA tradition of sort...
All major Chinese dynasties have periods of full-scale war followed their fall. The Zhou gradually declined into the Warring States; the legendary Qin empire fell sharply and a civil war between the rebel forces saw Liu Bang rises as the new emperor of imperial China; The Western Han period had been interrupted by a temporary fall and universal chaos, until the dynasty restored its grip; the Eastern Han's fall brought out the famous Three Kingdoms period - followed by centuries of chaos until the rise of the Sui/Tang dynasty and the height of Chinese culture. The age of the Five Dynasties, Ten States followed the Tang and precedes the Song. The Song didn't even establish themselves completely. The age, a cultural and technological flowering as it was, had never seen complete peace; the Jin dynasty (not exactly Chinese, but..) took over Northern Song only to be replaced by the Mongols, who ended all. ~D Well, after that it's inconvenient for TW engine to do.
And somebody said Chinese history was quite peaceful. :-P
A supreme dynasty rose and fell and followed by Total War followed by another supreme dynasty forged out of the blood and iron. ~D
Besides, where else would you get a proper Mongol Invasion expansion pack to follow the full game?
Fantasy is not bad idea, but IMO TW will lose some it's historical fans.
HarunTaiwan
08-18-2005, 07:28
China or Age of Discovery...this could even be world-wide to include China.
Great apsect of this age is rapdid tech progress.
Muska Burnt
08-18-2005, 07:34
i said it before ill say it again i want to see sctw....south central total war and the expansion biggie invasion
I wouldn't be surprised if a bigger redo of shogun or medieval cropped up...
Don't do fantasy though - i like having an idea of what does what; sword beats archer; archer beats light infantry, not Silver bullet legion beats vampire thing; dragon=elephant=owns
bodidley
08-18-2005, 09:21
A game based around the Warring States in China would be cool,
Yes, that would be badass ~:cool: . Spring and Autumn period, Warring States period, or Three Kingdoms period would be cool. The strategic divisions of the country can actually get quite redundant but besides Koei games, gamers in most markets don't get much China strategy action.
Samurai Waki
08-18-2005, 09:47
as long as it isn't Fantasy or WW2 I'll probably buy it.....*sigh*
Daveybaby
08-18-2005, 12:09
I would really like to see a fantasy total war. Something like Master of Magic using the total war engine would be great. Okay, so its not historical - but we're already getting pretty much every conceivable historical era via mods. What's left that isnt already being covered by someone? Napoleonic era would be nice, but whats the point in CA producing that when the Lordz are already doing such a good job?
As for WWI / WWII - you would have to make it 'Modern total war' and probably have to take it from victorian times up to present day in order to get a long enough game. The trouble with modern warfare is that its on a completely different scale (both spatially and temporally) to the sort of stuff thats been covered up to now. IMO it would have to be a completely different style of game altogether for it to work.
Fantasy really fits the bill IMO. As long as the game has good strategic and tactical play then i'm happy.
Ianofsmeg16
08-18-2005, 12:22
Did anybody see my earlier post?
A Knights of honour-style camp map, with different levels
Level 1: Overview of the World: Huge map but only has province details and cities on it
Level 2: Continent Map: RTW Map at the moment, more detailed than lvl 1 with armies, spies and diplomats etc.
Level 3 : Country Map: Extremely detailed map with villages, towns and cities that all play a different role in running your country, also add Churches, farmhouses and Manor houses (another thing from KOH) onto this level
Battle map: Battle maps should be un-restricted or at least huge, ecompassing everything you see on level 3 into the battle map e.g. If you Can see Plymouth, Dartmoor and the severn estuary on Level 3 then all of that should be incorperated
see? then they could include the whole world
Divinus Arma
08-18-2005, 15:12
I think it should be Fantasy! :charge:
I think it should be no-franchise fantasy! :charge:
Then all CA must focus on is game play.
And all players must focus on is game play.
And all modders must focus on is game play.
It is hard enough (down!) to get a game history-correct or fun to play. ~D
Those mods who focus on game play only, getting to abstracted from realism in RTW setting. Those who focus on realism only get little fun.
BI demo may be hint that they are thinking away from realism more, because units light up "level up" style when gain experience. ~:eek:
So this it what I think. all stats, weapon, region, faction, culture, mount, everything just designed for best possible game, not for correctness to be dissected.
I like history and learning and that as much as next man, but I like most a fun game! ~D ~D
And Total War Type Game is great!! ~:cheers: potentially!! ~:cheers:
Here's a puppet member if I ever saw one.
Abokasee, is that you?
Ianofsmeg16
08-18-2005, 15:19
Here's a puppet member if I ever saw one.
Abokasee, is that you?
:hide: :end: :eeeek: :eeeek: :scared: :scared:
Gustav II Adolf
08-18-2005, 15:46
I would love to see a game starting after where medieval ended. The years of early gunpowder and forward gives allot of variety in units and melee combat. Sadly it´s not an obvious era. My guess is Napoleon TW for the masses. Well, maybe american conquest or a world war TW could do it.
yesdachi
08-18-2005, 16:25
There is probably an entire untapped fan base/market out there for a fantasy total war and as the actual historical opportunities are becoming less (with new mods being made all the time) I think a fantasy game would be a natural progression and if done right it could be loads of fun.
Elmar Bijlsma
08-18-2005, 23:06
My €0.02 worth:
Franco-Prussian war and beyond is just a BAD idea, TW is about massed combat, the wars from then on aren't. Besides, if you want to play WW2 so bad, buy Combat Mission, it seriously rocks and still has the WW2 combat market cornered, just a shame there is no operational or strategic layer. Anyone thinking WW2 combat is 'easy' will soon be cured of that notion.
Napoleonics sure seems the likely contender though with Histwar: Grognards (again published by Battlefront, I love those guys!) coming up end of the year my Grognard wishes would be already fulfilled.
Fantasy could be cool, though it shouldn't be some randomly made up stuff. Ideally Tolkien but I think Activision holds the full rights now so chances of that would be slim to none. But Robert Jordan could be good. Heck, if done well I'd buy Discworld Total War. ~D
But my strong preference by far goes to the many, many wars between Catholics v Protestants. Thrirty Years war and the many wars it spawned for example. That truly is an era of total war with oodles of factions, a good Catholics v Protestand backdrop and you'd get a good variety of units with swords and armour etc clinging on despite the rise of the firearm and pikes making their big comeback. Hmmm, pikes, maybe a bad idea unless CA fixed that particular mess. ~;) And relgious strife makes for good political backdrop. It could include the Inquisition. No one expects the Inquistion. ~D
Big problem is that despite the good backdrop mass market appeal isn't that good. There's been a few recent games roughly in this era but the average gamer is still largely oblivious to this fascinating age. But apart from that, it would have anything. And hey, STW did the Japanese civil wars, hardly a known conflict, though then again that had Samourai, who are hot stuff in the mass market appeal factor. Them and Ninjas.
Zenicetus
08-19-2005, 02:35
I Agree with Sapi's point about fantasy themes.
You basically start from scratch with any fantasy title, unless it's one of the licensed franchises like D&D where you may already be familiar with the rule set. I had a pretty good feel for Neverwinter Nights because I had played the Baldur's Gate series, and it used similar D&D rules for unit matchups. When I got the Kohan fantasy RTS game (and later the Kohan II sequel), I had to learn a brand new rock/paper/scissors scheme from scratch.
I didn't have to do that when I bought RTW. I could jump right into it, because I already had a pretty good feel for how the units worked, based on my overall knowledge of history and real-life combat. I didn't have to spend weeks or months to learn an arbitrary combat system. Aside from the big licenses like D&D or LOTR, all fantasy-based strategy games are basically arbitrary and unpredictable from one game to the next.
I don't think CA will go in that direction anyway, because there is still some juice in the historical area. They could do ancient China (my personal guess at the next TW title), or Meso-American conquest/colonization, or re-visit either of the prior games with better graphics. I just hope they stay away from gunpowder combat, like the Napoleonic era. I don't think it's the best match for the current 3D game engine. A terrific screenshot of guys hacking at each other up-close and personal, will sell a lot more games than a camera view of a line of soldiers slowly toppling from long-range gunfire.
Sol Invictus
08-19-2005, 06:31
If not Napoleon then it has to be China. Either one could be very interesting. Napoleon would demand much improved diplomacy and a lessening of the slash and burn total conquest that has been at the core of previous TW games. That settles it, go EAST CA.
Geoffrey S
08-19-2005, 08:28
China: Total War would be ace, or else a more widely focused Asia: Total War would also be good. One thing I'd still love to see are smaller, more tightly focused campaigns, such as a Caeser in Gaul or Greek Cities campaign. I'm quite surprised not many people have actually made more focused campaigns like the Sicily map.
Divinus Arma
08-19-2005, 09:47
This was posted like two weeks ago:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=51652
and this was a while back:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44540
But whatever. My vote is obviously for 1600-1890 with a full world map and emphasis on colonies and trade and diplomacy in addition to our beloved tactical battles.
Marquis of Roland
08-19-2005, 11:23
I want to see a Three Kingdoms Total War. Anyone that played the KOEI games gotta agree, TW engine is perfect for it.
Too bad CA won't make it. Probably won't relate to as many people (who own computers) as the previous two. No market, no money. Boo.
Here's a puppet member if I ever saw one.
Abokasee, is that you?
Of course not at all! ~:)
I saw Abokasee Bartix thread before joining, and thought Bartix name cool.
(Sorry if I cause him trouble) :bow:
I get poo-poo here, yes. :embarrassed:
I think suggesting WW something is worthy of poo-poo. Not suiting concept.
Must have mix of range and hand to hand combat, formations, mounts, variation of armor and equipment, development of provinces+++ :duel:
A Medieval remake OK, but I think Ca prove not capable or willing to make effort for history correctness. Obvious in game, and in comments of FAQ and org. Also total history correctness can make very un balanced or boring game play.
So I stay with my own proposition. ~:cool:
No need to have many magic or dragon or things, that is not meaning.
I just think freedom to make great game will be maximum this way.
:bow: :bow: ~:cheers:
Leet Eriksson
08-19-2005, 11:40
since the game ends 100 years behind the arab conquests, it would naturally be the next step CA takes the Total War series... The Islamic Conquests from 632 AD to the Norman conquests of britain in 1066 AD. or even start with a scenario prior to the islamic conquests, like the war between the Himyar (a yemeni kingdom that converted to judaism headed by Yusuf dhul Nawas) and Axum(christian ethopians headed by Kaleb) in 523 AD.
Mahrabals apprentice
08-19-2005, 11:54
I have a great idea
I live with 3 women, and we have 1 bathroom
Bathroom Total War (just like i experience every dam morning)
Who can get in first, who can used the mirror before it gets steamed up, who can leave the most towels on the floor, (and just for me, how badly can i miss the toilet when i pee)?
If u want violence and carnage and all out war this is the idea u will like
sunsmountain
08-19-2005, 12:04
Re-doing Shogun: Total War or Medieval: Total War has the unwanted side effect of sales in those games stopping. People will buy the better looking game if it's the same game otherwise.
It also wouldn't be very creative, with them being the Creative Assembly and all that. So my money is on fantasy, but I would buy a remake of Shogun and Medieval (both in 1 package). They already have all the artwork.
I hope CA don't move into fantasy, because - despite the complaints - I think they make the most fun historical wargames around.
I agree but historical is unnecessary in that equation.
(They aim at mass market strategy games, but IMO are historical wargamers at heart and leave enough of the hardcore stuff in their games to satisfy that niche, at least after modding).
That niche is about as big as the other. Ie, Historical Wargamers and Fantasy Wargamers are about the same size. Perhaps Fantasy Wargamers are even bigger due to World of Warcraft etc. because Blizzard paved the way there. It also means increased competition. Making an orc or an elf in the RomeTW may look nice to us, but crappy to any Warcraft III player (not as detailed or immersing).
Don't do fantasy though - i like having an idea of what does what; sword beats archer; archer beats light infantry, not Silver bullet legion beats vampire thing; dragon=elephant=owns
Well, i don't really like bullets, but silver swords would be nice if Vampires use claws, and they're both high level units. Obviously, in TW, you can't have immune to damage units. They would both need a rounded army roster and some cool background, but hell no it doesn't need to be historical.
You can still see the weapons they're carrying, can't you?
Biggest problem fantasy faces is how to incorporate Magic users? Maybe wizards like in Warhammer Fantasy Battle but there are always people who complain about them.
Tough choice for CA. They'll probably just make a mod like Macedon: Total War and essentially keep working on Rome: Total War because it's not finished! (AI, path-finding, etc.)
i have just an idee ! they can make a next TW with the cruciades in all islamic regions This is history not fiction! i have not seen anyone say this!
Cruciade Total War or another name? :duel: :idea2:
Sorry for my english
since the game ends 100 years behind the arab conquests, it would naturally be the next step CA takes the Total War series... The Islamic Conquests from 632 AD to the Norman conquests of britain in 1066 AD. or even start with a scenario prior to the islamic conquests, like the war between the Himyar (a yemeni kingdom that converted to judaism headed by Yusuf dhul Nawas) and Axum(christian ethopians headed by Kaleb) in 523 AD.
That`s a scary good idea. Either that, or time around Alexander the Great`s conquests would be just perfect for the next TW game.
What about a Total War from 30 Years War to Napoleonic Wars, or Crimean War?
The campaign map should be Europe, North-Africa and a little bit of East (Ottoman Empire...) but North America also (7 years war and Indipendence War...). With naval battles, of course ~:cool:
King Henry V
08-19-2005, 21:49
What about a Colonialization: Total from 1492 to the Indian Mutiny or the Crimea. A whole new feature to make a world game mor managble would be to split the world up into Europe, North America, South America, Asia and Africa. The player could choose to focus his personal attention on any continent they wish, whislt the others would be managed by the coumputer. The player would give the orders of course.This would make it also more realistic as rulers could only be in one place at the same time. You could choose to switch locations anytime you wished as events unfolded.
caesar44
08-19-2005, 22:39
1492 to 1815 , Europe , North Africa and the Middle East , all factions and a much better diplomacy system with maximum possibilities
I think that making a WW1 or WW2 TW game etc. will take out the fun and atmosphere out of the total war series and it would no longer feel like a total war game, imo.
Good old ancient melee and missile. Not Lancaster bombers and submarine spitfires etc. *begs CA not to make a WW1 or WW2 or even WW3 for that matter tw game*
~:cheers:
bodidley
08-20-2005, 01:51
A bronze age or fertile crescent game would be great. The only recent game I can think of covering that setting or even time frame is Chariots of War. Heck, they could even re-use the Egyptian units from R:TW! ~D
AntiochusIII
08-20-2005, 03:34
Gee. I'm getting tired of Europe. I want them to go East, be it Far East or Middle East. :)
If there is a fantasy TW then I won't be the one to buy it. Unless, of course, it's based on Tolkien's Middle Earth. ~D
Building some fantasy fictional land out of nowhere isn't very fun to play, you know. The key to TW has always been the fact that players can now recreate the ancient empires of their choices, which is why there are so many historical nerds in the TW fanbase. ~;)
Enjoi_BlackHawk
08-20-2005, 04:40
What about a Colonialization: Total from 1492 to the Indian Mutiny or the Crimea. A whole new feature to make a world game mor managble would be to split the world up into Europe, North America, South America, Asia and Africa. The player could choose to focus his personal attention on any continent they wish, whislt the others would be managed by the coumputer. The player would give the orders of course.This would make it also more realistic as rulers could only be in one place at the same time. You could choose to switch locations anytime you wished as events unfolded.
i was thinking the same thing, guns are important but bayonettes where way more effective, easily contained within the Rome engine, i was even thinking of CA working on supply lines, but it might just become tedious....hm....it would be intresting if they had certain "value" of the land, like you would want the east indies because of the spices etc, africa for slaves (hm could they implimate slave trading w/o a law suite? It plays a big part during this time...
But no AI control, i personally dont think AI is even close to do it 2 ur liking, i would prefer just more generic handiling of cities than have AI micromanage everything for me. That way you can focus on combat more
bodidley
08-20-2005, 07:08
hm could they implimate slave trading w/o a law suite? It plays a big part during this time...
Could you deny the existance of slavery without a lawsuit? I think you'd have to follow the grim realties of history and choose the depth to which you want to explore them. Ever notice that the "slave market" in so many totalwar.com previews never made it to the final product? Or no enslaving captured enemy soldiers? I suppose when you're trying to cater to 12 year olds the whole slavery thing isn't exactly pc ~;) but you can't make a creative product while fearing lawsuit every step of the way, especially if it isn't designed to offend.
I think a bit pre-bayonet would be better for the Total War engine, getting a good mix of pole-arms, firearms, cavalry, and artillery.
King Henry V
08-20-2005, 17:18
Of course killing enemy prisoners is far more merciful than enslaving.........
sunsmountain
08-21-2005, 01:46
1492 to 1815 , Europe , North Africa and the Middle East , all factions and a much better diplomacy system with maximum possibilities
Please, go play Europa Universalis 2, all of you gun lovers! What's the tacts in that?? Ever played Sid Meier's Gettysburg? Boring! Gun battles suck.
Or Empires in Arms if you like Napoleon, a cool boardgame.
Here are my ideas, and feel free to disagree:
1. A WW game starting at about 1936/7/8/9 and continues up until 2000, and it would be 2 months per turn...That way, good battles, and the strategy after that would be good....Meh, it's prbly not gonna happen, and if they do, the potential for it fubaring are very high.
2. From about 1500 to 1850, in Europe/Part of the America/Part of Asia.
3. Asian:TOtal War from about 1200 to 1600. From Japan(possibly Australia) to like Central Asia.
What do you think?
caesar44
08-21-2005, 16:07
Please, go play Europa Universalis 2, all of you gun lovers! What's the tacts in that?? Ever played Sid Meier's Gettysburg? Boring! Gun battles suck.
Or Empires in Arms if you like Napoleon, a cool boardgame.
"go" , "Boring!" , "suck" , well ? and they say that the Dutch are cold people... ~;)
scorillo
08-21-2005, 16:35
1400 - 1700 period when whole Europe was terrifyed by the Otoman Empire...wich wanted to conquer all
A little more diplomacy stuff and I say, this will make a great TW
LittleRaven
08-22-2005, 22:12
Personally, I'd love another Shogun. There's just something about Samurai that touches the soul. ;)
But I see one major problem with redoing Shogun. CA has put a TON of work into the siege portion of the game, and while more can be done, the strides have been enormous. Ladders and siege towers and catapults, oh my! Units fighting on top of walls with men tumbling to their deaths in the streets below. That's just good stuff. Seeing all they've done, the castle battles of Shogun are positively embarrassing by comparison.
Now, I know very little about Japanese history. What were sieges like in feudal Japan? I don't think they had much in the way of siege engines, or at least I've never read about any.
Would we still get to enjoy cool siege battles in a new Shogun game?
Hold Steady
08-23-2005, 08:29
I think ww(2) can be done with this engine. Only thing one should focus on is not as so much the advantage of height or something similair which follows from applying Honerouble Tzu's rules, but more to line-of-sight things. Frankly, I've been waiting for a good WW2 game since Close Combat 2!
CC 3, 4 and 5 bogged down in strange fenomena like leadership, losing the effect tactical battles had on strategic level and too much tank-focussing. Combat mission doesn't look good enough and GI soldiers and Allied assault west front were plain floppers. Nice idea, but you can't copy 2-dimension Close combat to 3d, not like that..
But enough of this, Total war Rome engine could do this. Line of sight gets important. Ambush area even more, cover from greens, buildings! Units can enter buildings, guns can destroy buildings. Rifle fire only gets truly effective at a certain distance. Imagine a Tank rolling across grass, infantry crouched behind cover with antitank weapons, you should use infantry to flush them out.. Order a squad to assault a Machine gun emplacement, they start throwing grenades at thirty metres.. Artillery cover, mortars, fatigue, hand to hand combat, morale.. It can be done. But more important, a way to finally combine the strategic factors (a bit like hearts of Iron, allthough I hate their way of handling it and the degree of detail is too high for this kind of game) with tactics like close combat. I saw this game 5 years ago in my mind. armies like in RTW moving independently though the strategic map unless challenged. Imagine their progress influenced by fuel shortages, fortified positions, amphibious invasions. The air war can be handled purely in statistics if one wishes. Invest in bombers and fighters and research and it pays out in effect on economics, attrition. Of course recources play an important part. Why else attack the kaukasus or the middle east? And cut of the allies at the suez and give ém a big penalty.
Well, irrespective of what it will be.. if it will be.. I'm consoling myself with the idea that the next TW, if any, IS ALLREADY IN DEVELOPMENT. How soon they were working on RTW after MTW VI? Yep, even before they made the add on I believe. Why different now?
Claudius the God
08-23-2005, 09:16
Mesoamerica: Total War. with the rise of the Aztec and Maya empires, and the numerous factions in that region of the world, divided into Early Middle and Late periods (like MTW), with the Conquistadors appearing in the Late period.
Hold Steady
08-23-2005, 10:08
Mesoamerica: Total War. with the rise of the Aztec and Maya empires, and the numerous factions in that region of the world, divided into Early Middle and Late periods (like MTW), with the Conquistadors appearing in the Late period.
Hmm, jungle fighting? not my cup of tea.. Watch em go bananas
kingwill
08-23-2005, 22:48
definately an arab expansion total war, or crusaders. of if they aere being really ambitious a medievil stlye remake but using a whole world map like on superpower2 - that could end up with some wierd outcomes though like the maoris invading central america but it would alos cover loads of the ideas stated already.
Craterus
08-24-2005, 01:13
I think that WWI and WWII would be fantastic ideas for the next Total War Games.
WWI has more countries that played major roles in the conflict. But WWII would have several countries that didn't have much of an effect in the war. These would be a real challange to play as.
However it would be difficult to get all areas of the world into it. It would probably just have to be the European theatre. In Civilization 2 there was a mini campaign for WWII. That had America starting out with several cities in the east coast. That was the edge of the map. Something like this could be implimented into a WWI or WWII total war game.
Gameplay on the battle map would be difficult to perfect though...
Not a lot of difference between units in WW1. They were all basically the same, just speaking different laguages and wearing different uniforms.
Kitty208
08-24-2005, 01:24
I wouldn't really like to see a Shogun or Medevial 2. It'd feel like playing enhanced versions of the originals. I want to see a completely new time period. Since I've always loved Greek history(particularly the Spartans), I'd like to see a Hellenistic Total War. It could have a map with Greece and Sicily on the westernmost part then go east all the way out to India. I think the best timeframe would be during the time of Alexander the Great b/c of the more diverse units. Not sure how many factions you could get out of that though. A pelopponesian or persian war campaign would also be nice, but there is almost no unit diversity amongst the Greeks. Aside from that, I'd would also be pleased w/ a Napoleonic Total War or a China Total War.
I wouldn't be surprised if a bigger redo of shogun or medieval cropped up...
That's my thinking too + I would certainly love to see Shogun Totalwar 2, the first one ruled in it's day, but they could do so much more with these new graphics engines et al.
For new stuff my predilection would be to the US Civil War era, but I'm probably in the minority there. Sid Meyer did it well, but Gettysburg Total War would rock like Nel Carter on a swing set!
Hold Steady
08-24-2005, 09:42
That's my thinking too + I would certainly love to see Shogun Totalwar 2, the first one ruled in it's day, but they could do so much more with these new graphics engines et al.
For new stuff my predilection would be to the US Civil War era, but I'm probably in the minority there. Sid Meyer did it well, but Gettysburg Total War would rock like Nel Carter on a swing set!
Not a bad one, but on the other hand, not much troop variation. I'd still like WWII the most, but the engine should be severly modified for that.
Sjakihata
08-24-2005, 11:42
I'd like a China: Total War
I dont think they should do a shoggy 2. I like the memories of a very great game - I dont want it spoiled by crappy rome engine and cartoonish strat map. Thank you.
:bow:
"...Combat mission doesn't look good enough ..."
[boggle]
You want a good WW2 tactical game and you dismiss CM as lacking eye candy? Probably the most realistic tactical game that's actually good to play? With an AI (actually 3 levels of AI operating interactively) that knocks most game AIs into a cocked hat? You do know that there are three versions of CM, of steadily-increasing graphical sophistication, and that there is a large and very talented community of skin-modders which can prettify your game (units and terrain) no end should that be your desire?
Try it. It's not expensive and has at least as much replay value as the battle side of any TW game, though its realism means it is by no means easy to learn: you can lose the tutorial battles, easy.
Meh. "Doesn't look good enough..."
Not a bad one, but on the other hand, not much troop variation. I'd still like WWII the most, but the engine should be severly modified for that.
I will certainly take whatever comes with a smile. To be honest I am amazed the the original S:TW ever got made at all + the other games and expansions that followed have all been solid. I'd have to say at this point I am confident that whatever direction CA takes the series, it will be another winner.
hundurinn
08-24-2005, 18:35
IMHO WW1 and WW2 would be foolish. Take for example MTW and RTW, both happened in a era that spanned hundred of years. WW1 took place between 1914-1948 and WW2 1939-1945. WW2 and WW1 have been used in too many games. Using the TW engine they have now would be impossible. The map would be HUGE even too big to play. Anything after Napoleon would be insane.
Mongoose
08-24-2005, 18:50
Please, go play Europa Universalis 2, all of you gun lovers! What's the tacts in that?? Ever played Sid Meier's Gettysburg? Boring! Gun battles suck.
Or Empires in Arms if you like Napoleon, a cool boardgame.
Any one who thinks that battles with guns are with out tactics should read up on frederick the great.....
Doug-Thompson
08-24-2005, 20:03
I want Medieval Total War II: A new strategic map and diplomatic options ala RTW and the tactical game of MTW, with improved graphics only.
LittleRaven
08-24-2005, 20:17
I want Medieval Total War II: A new strategic map and diplomatic options ala RTW and the tactical game of MTW, with improved graphics only.I could live with that, but I want more than just improved graphics. I want REAL castle sieges. I want men with ladders and mortars and cannons and catapult towers and all that other fun stuff.
And I quite enjoy the ability to 'view' my settlements and watch them grow. So I want that too.
I also want the traits system from Rome for my royal family, except I want it fixed, please. (I was amazed at the difference the fix pack made in that regard) And possibly expanded to include princesses in a more meaningful fashion.
But most importantly, regardless of when it's set, it's time for a major investment of time into the AI. With Rome, CA really took the engine to the next level. Now they need to bring the AI to the next level as well, so that it has some hope of competing with a human in the new environment.
MrWhipple
08-24-2005, 22:00
I want STONE AGE: Total War (and all in caps like that too).
I want to see big hairy guys chucking rocks and spears at each other.
I want to see brontos and trexes running amok
I want to see brush fences burning in the moonlight
I want to see cave women weeping over dead children
But most of all I want to see all of the whiners on this forum quit crying because
it isn't historical.
~:) ~;)
HarunTaiwan
08-25-2005, 10:02
Better AI: TW
any region, any time period, just better AI, slower battles, and more tactics.
Divinus Arma
09-17-2005, 04:57
We can only hope that Colonies and Empires: Total War will be next. Is this evidence?:
From the Com:
Q: Will you in future TW games (if you continue the Franchise) be able to BUILD settlements? This would make the gameplay deeper so if there is a river nearby you could build it there and not need to build a dock. (It might require stronger fortifications from pirates and enemy factions though...)
A: Firstly, the Total War franchise will continue after Barbarian Invasion. Our designers are currently engaged in heated debates (or verbal punch-ups, it depends on your point of view) about the nature of the next Total War game. Now as to whether settlements will be built in the game (we presume you mean anywhere on the map): this would depend on the subject matter of the game. If such a mechanism were appropriate, then we would consider using it.
Hmmm. Please? ~:cheers:
OHHHHHH the possibilities! Pirates, colonies, imperial line armies and cannon! The era is filled with historical evidence and very well documented. Imagine seiging the Fortresses of Neuf-Brisach or Spilberk! The fortresses of the time are so condusive to this idea.
CA, if you do this, PLEASE do it right. Rome was great. THIS could be legendary! The art, the music, the architecture, the changes in government, the changes in religion! What a time if strife, of growth, of ideas!
I would preorder this like a year in advance and forsake my social life for the following year. ~D
There is also a TON of possibility for spinoffs on PC and console. The revolutions, the imperial declines, individual stories of heroes in the time...
Just do it right... like we know you will. No "Imperial Glory". Take your sweet time. ~D ~:cheers:
King of Atlantis
09-17-2005, 05:08
I think it should be Fantasy! :charge:
I think it should be no-franchise fantasy! :charge:
and destroy the best gaming community I have ever seen...
Replace all the historians, and historian wannabes, with loads of eight year olds, who probably never have heard of Gual before.
Ah, what a sad day it will be...
antisocialmunky
09-19-2005, 03:02
I just want the Shogun Movies back...
Perhaps CA should just go nuts and run with a '5000 BCE - 2000AD History:Total War.' Just do EVERYTHING. That's blow Civilization, Empire Earth, and all those games out of the water... That is, if they made the strat map more strategic.
Kor Khan
09-19-2005, 13:00
This is my list of good possibilitites (in no particular order):
Remake of M:TW
Remake of S:TW
Chinese history (any era up until ca. 1650 would be great)
Europe, 16th-17th century (Renaissance, 30 Years War)
Europe, 17th-18th century ("Cossacks" era)
early 18th century- ca. 1820 ("Enlightenment and Imperialism", could cover the whole world).
I know WWI and WWII sound fun, but I agree with all those who seriously doubt that it would work well. For a start, WWI would consist of sitting in trenches and having sautéed rat for dinner every day. Any big attack on the enemy lasts about five seconds before everyone is massacred. Therefore, the system of a strategy map with important one-day battles fought on the battlemap wouldn't work well.
WWII: I guess that it's a good setting, but
a. Once again it wouldn't work well with the Total War engine. Warfare was just completely different, with battles lasting a long time and on a much bigger scale.
b. There are just so many WWII games out there right now, I think everyone's basically sick of them.
I would really like to see a fantasy total war. Something like Master of Magic using the total war engine would be great.
I happen to agree. Master of Magic was - and still is - one of my favourite games and I´d love doing the battles there in the Rome engine. As well, it´s not a licensed universe, so there´d be (hopefully) neither any self-arrogated "Guardians of the Truth" (whom I utterly despise and hate, and that´s official) nor any threads degenerating to "They didn´t use that nail on shoes at that time" (which is just as bad).
Catiline
09-19-2005, 14:18
Look at the title of the thread guys and decide for yourselves if this is the forum...
Thread Closed
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