View Full Version : Countdown to Open Beta - Features and Gameplay
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!
First, please let me note that we are once again looking for excited, active EB fans to join us in our effort. Our primary goal is to raise our activity level, and we have many non-technical tasks to complete, such as writing descriptions, or organizing data, so experienced modders are a plus but not a necessity at all. We will be placing a recruitment post for you to read; please contact us if you have some time to commit, especially in the next couple of weeks, as we push to release our open beta.
In a similar vein to the Tabula Orbis Terra preview last month, this week we are taking a slightly different look at the mod in progress and revealing some aspects of the mod, of which we have never spoken before. :evilgrin:
This week we're taking the cover off the engine and highlighting some of the new gameplay features that you can expect to see in the open beta.
Never more so has a preview been really the product of the entire team as this preview spans all factions and aspects of the game, but nevertheless some particular people must be highlighted so special thanks go to Malrubius, The_Mark, Epistolary Richard, LorDBulA, Krusader and Teleklos Archelaou.
Traits & Ancillaries
The traits and ancillaries system for Europa Barbarorum attempts to add to the historical immersion for the player, to make him feel like he is really there and playing the ruling class of his faction. To accomplish this, a new system was developed, where each general has a set of Ability and Personality stats, similar to what you might find in a role-playing game. These 6 primary traits are the backbone of the EB system, and they affect the acquisition of many of the other traits and even ancillaries.
Transformation - How a historical personage becomes a general in Europa Barbarorum
Arche Seleukideia
Magas Kyrenaios (http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/2006.html) - 53 - Makedonian of obscure birth; phalanx commander for Alexander; liked by Ptolemy at first; governor of Kyrenaia under Ptolemy, held it 50 years; revolted under Ptolemy Philadelphos; abandoned to indolence and luxury; enormously fat; died from suffocation from fat; illiterate, but mild and gentle; long and tranquil reign.
We have a moderate amount of biographical knowledge for Magas, King of Cyrene. This can be simulated with a variety of traits. He would be Charismatic, with a low Vitality. He seems possessed of a Happy and Altruistic personality, representing his good nature. By the time we meet him in Europa Barbarorum, he has grown Indolent, and perhaps Epicurean. He could be described as a Kind Ruler. His experience as a commander would have given him Leadership skills.
Put this all together, and we have an approximation of Magas Kyrenaios that comes as close as possible to representing the real man who lived almost 2300 years ago.
https://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7692/magas1gr.th.jpg (https://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magas1gr.jpg)
Seasonal Campaigning
As has been previously announced, Europa Barbarorum will have Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter turns each year. Historically, there were seasons for campaigning. This varied depending on climate and custom. Winter was usually not a time for armies to be on the march, forage being scarce, and weather being uncooperative. The movement of generals will be somewhat restricted during winter to reflect the historical realities of winter campaigning. But some people, such as those of the forests beyond the Rhine, and the people of the steppe, fared well in winter campaigning.
Arid regions are a different story, however. Here, water is scarce, the hot sun bakes men during the day, and the temperature drops at night. It is wise not to push one's men too far during the summer. The movement of generals in these areas will be restricted during this season.
As already previewed, summer is also time for the Olympics, held every four years, and open to all free Hellenes.
New Victory Conditions
Rome – though undoubtedly a mighty prize to capture – held little allure for many of our factions. For us at Europa Barbarorum – to truly portray a nation as authentically as possible – it is not enough to account for their starting lands and their leaders, we must also take account of their goals and desires.
Therefore we have dispensed with the vanilla victory conditions of capturing Rome and fifty provinces and given each faction its own personalised victory conditions – aligned as far as possible with what we know of their ambitions for conquest and development. These victory conditions include specific territorial gains as well the destruction of particular foes and more.
As illustration we present you the victory conditions for the Sauromatae (NB, some of the names of this map have been superceded)
https://img342.imageshack.us/img342/7457/sauromatae3cy.th.jpg (https://img342.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sauromatae3cy.jpg)
The Sauromatae, though their homelands were vast, ranged even further afield in bands of raiders who would attack and loot lightly defended settlements before vanishing as the defenders scrambled together an army. To represent this, as well as territorial occupation we have included a range of raiding targets that they must strike to bring terror to the world before they may call themselves its masters.
Capturing Special Provinces
Upon capturing certain important provinces, you will receive special messages detailing the historical significance of those areas to your faction, such as the following, when a Parthian general conquers Babylon or Parsa:
https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/2071/messagebabylon7kc.th.jpg (https://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=messagebabylon7kc.jpg)https://img323.imageshack.us/img323/1650/messageparsa2zw.th.jpg (https://img323.imageshack.us/my.php?image=messageparsa2zw.jpg)
Living off the land
All soldiers know how to forage, how to hunt and find food whilst on the road. Nevertheless, keeping a mighty army in the field can be a terrible expense that can drain a treasury dry supporting them with food, material and pay. The warriors of some nations, though, are so adept at living off the land, roaming free without supply lines or baggage trains that they may fight on for years without support from their leaders.
When the generals of certain factions such as the Swêbōz and others excel so at this that when they loot and pillage the enemy’s territory it will reduce the expense of their upkeep to the treasury.
Military Reforms
The Marian Reforms were the greatest sea-change in any military of the period, however it was not the only one. The soldiery of several factions evolved as time progressed and they came face to face with new enemies and new tactics. Depending on their fortunes, a few factions will develop new core units as they progress – sometimes based on time, sometimes based on the lands they conquer and sometimes upon the enemies they face.
In this example, it was not until the Seleukid’s own cavalry was bested by the terrible kataphractoi that they began to deploy these armoured juggernauts in their armies.
https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8546/kataphract2tx.th.jpg (https://img203.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kataphract2tx.jpg)
Neighbouring Countries
No nation in 272BC was ignorant of its neighbours - exploration, trade, political interest and colonisation all meant that each settlement knew much about those around it. For us at EB it was as ludricous to say that the Ptolemies knew nothing of Greece as it would be to say the Romans knew nothing of Rome! :beam:
Therefore at the beginning of the game, each faction will have some knowledge of those settlements with which it historically had had significant contact. Not in as much detail as their starting territories, of course, but no longer will it seem as though they've simply fallen from the sky.
Alliances with the Independent Cities
With contact between these nation-states, came diplomacy. The politics of the lands around the Mediterranean were a complex spider-web of alliances, pacts and treaties. No power could take a step without considering the likely reactions of their rivals. These alliances were not just between the major players, many settlements – though nominally independent – had close, binding ties with the greater nations around them. An attack upon them was an attack upon their nation-patrons, who would not shy from defending their interests in battle.
Any general who believes that such cities can be conquered without stir or ripple around the Mediterranean pond will quickly find themselves embroiled in wars they cannot win. Equally, you too will not be able to escape conflict if your local allies are threatened. Consider though, that such arrangements are not entirely burdensome, every successful liberation expands your empire one city further.
Triumphs
Each one of Rome’s commanders has a chance to be awarded this highest accolade, but only a few may ever achieve it. To be even considered, a general must smash the barbarous foes that lie beyond Rome’s borders though displays of tactical brilliance, he must be adored and acclaimed by his soldiers, and even beyond that he must be a political player of the highest order to survive the intricate machine of patronage and privilege that is Republican Rome.
For those who achieve it, though, they will become the leaders of their nation and will always be remembered as the finest of Rome.
Do not fear that other factions have not been forgotten. Both mighty tribal war chieftains and skilful eastern princes will have their own rewards of men, money and power.
https://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4051/triumph76kx.th.jpg (https://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=triumph76kx.jpg)
And more...
And these are not all, there are many more historically authentic events, goals and achievements to be discovered as you explore the world of the past – the world of Europa Barbarorum.
https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/2532/baktria49xg.th.jpg (https://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baktria49xg.jpg) https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9527/cher08wd0au.th.jpg (https://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cher08wd0au.jpg) https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4208/tomb16th.th.jpg (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tomb16th.jpg)
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We hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s update!
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our previews are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:
Europa Barbarorum ORG forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
Europa Barbarorum TWC forum (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)
We give special thanks to Imageshack (http://www.imageshack.us) that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.
Have a great day!
Sincerely,
The Europa Barbarorum team.
This is my first post despite having lurked EB forums for more than a year.
I must say that this preview had me worried. You have now set my hopes so high that it will be difficult to live up to them. ~;)
You have clearly shown that you're really not just "a dozen historic realism freaks" like it's being said here and there. Your mod is about making this great game, that really lacks on support by it's developers, a master piece.
I must say thank you. Even before playing EB I have to thank you for making me dream of what this game should have been.
kayapó
Alliances with the Independent Cities
Sorry. But do you mean that we'll be able to make alliance with rebels?
I didn't get this. :help:
Aymar de Bois Mauri
08-18-2005, 02:31
Sorry. But do you mean that we'll be able to make alliance with rebels?
I didn't get this. :help:Yes.
How does the four seasons work? Do you have to start up a script everytime you want to play?
Steppe Merc
08-18-2005, 02:36
Welcome to the boards, kayapó. ~:grouphug:
Don't worry about not understand how it is exactly done, since I'm a member and I have no clue myself. ~;)
How does the four seasons work? Do you have to start up a script everytime you want to play?
I think you have to press a key...
Malrubius
08-18-2005, 02:41
Sorry. But do you mean that we'll be able to make alliance with rebels?
I didn't get this. :help:
Well, historically, some peoples sought protection from stronger neighbors in times of distress. What better way to protect someone than to bring them into your empire? :devilish:
It's not the same as allying with all the rebels.
Yes.
Talk about pushing the limits of this engine. I'm amazed :dizzy2:
Welcome to the boards, kayapó.
Thank you!
It's not the same as allying with all the rebels.
That's exactly why I'm amazed.
There seems to be a problem with the last picture I can't acess it. The one called tomb16 or something like that.
antiochus epiphanes
08-18-2005, 02:51
after seeing this preview, im begining to think you guys are witches.
good job!
i still in heaven over you bactrians
Wow guys. This is tremendous work. You really are showing us why you aren't competing with any other fan made mod. You're completing with BI! This is amazing stuff.
I hope you'll be explaining how all this stuff works though so that others in the community can benefit? I'm especially interested in that trait system. :book:
shifty157
08-18-2005, 03:05
This to me is by far the best update yet.
I cant wait!
I hope that we wont have to manually start the various scripts every time we load a game however. Did you manage to get around this?
The third picture is an event when the Seleucids capture Alexandria from the Ptolemies and move Alexander the Great's remains to Aigai(?) where they rightfully belong.
Its really quite amazing all the little details that go into this mod. I am incredibly impressed. I thought RTR6.0 was a huge improvement but suddenly it seems pale and childish.
I hope you'll be explaining how all this stuff works though so that others in the community can benefit? I'm especially interested in that trait system. :book:Our tech experts, including Epistolary Richard and Malrubius, have kept the community updated through their research threads and community mods. Nothing here is a new discovery that has not been shared, though we are fortunate to have some very bright minds working together on how to implement things into EB.
I don't post here much, but absolutly great job. I love the idea of the messanger talking to you in that second to last pic.
Malrubius
08-18-2005, 03:32
I don't post here much, but absolutly great job. I love the idea of the messanger talking to you in that second to last pic.
What's really great is you don't have to listen to it telling you how to set taxes or recruit a unit; the EB advisor does not require the tutorial advisor to work.
What's really great is you don't have to listen to it telling you how to set taxes or recruit a unit; the EB advisor does not require the tutorial advisor to work.
Sweet! You guys are amazing, great update! :balloon2:
Sfwartir
08-18-2005, 03:36
What the...How did you...And even...I didn't know it was possible to...GAAAAAAAHHH!!!
ALL HAIL EB!!
Our tech experts, including Epistolary Richard and Malrubius, have kept the community updated through their research threads and community mods. Nothing here is a new discovery that has not been shared, though we are fortunate to have some very bright minds working together on how to implement things into EB.Sure. It was not my intention to suggest otherwise. But knowing the basic principles behind a car engine doesn't mean that you can build an engine yourself. Not without help from a few experts anyway. :bow:
Reverend Joe
08-18-2005, 03:56
:dizzy2:
You... are... GODS!
When EB comes out, it will be the first time I have played RTW since this past May... it's going to seem like a different game. Congratulations, EB team: you may have just saved RTW.
Also, please do not be distracted or dismayed by BI, which was (I am certain of this) released when it was to kill your mod. Keep working on RTW 1.2 and don't get distracted, and BI will collapse and die like a gazelle beset by hyenas.
Sure. It was not my intention to suggest otherwise. But knowing the basic principles behind a car engine doesn't mean that you can build an engine yourself. Not without help from a few experts anyway. :bow:Well, I am sure our scripting and traits teams are happy to help, but don't you pester them with questions until the open beta is out the door! :smash:
Simetrical
08-18-2005, 04:20
What's really great is you don't have to listen to it telling you how to set taxes or recruit a unit; the EB advisor does not require the tutorial advisor to work.Meaning you just overwrite the default adviser stuff, or you can actually coexist with it? Some people do use the adviser, according to my research (viz., being RTR's tech support guy and checking out a lot of saved games).
Mongoose
08-18-2005, 04:24
On again, the sheer level of detail in this mod shocks me. Keep up the good work!
*edit*
Simetrical, i see that you are playing EE2. ~D is it any good? i liked the first but the bad AI was annoying and there was a alittle too much Microing IMO.
Meaning you just overwrite the default adviser stuff, or you can actually coexist with it? Some people do use the adviser, according to my research (viz., being RTR's tech support guy and checking out a lot of saved games).
I don't think the advisor would be any use since its "advice" was mainly for the original game.
tzinacan
08-18-2005, 05:12
:afro: lovely
if you need a hand here i am
i think i can help with writing
let me know, now im quite unbusy
would be a honor for me guys
pezhetairoi
08-18-2005, 05:16
beautiful...now we're really getting juicy stuff here. I love this! Especially the fact that you can now ally with 'rebels' on individual terms and not as a general-Eleutheroi thing.
Haven't posted much but now I must come out and say cheers to all you. This is what I was praying for when RTW came out. :bow:
But if you need help writing, doing any mundane task I am at your command. Hell I'll be coffee boy if you want it.
Excellent job, keep it up.
Kushan
AntiochusIII
08-18-2005, 06:04
Though most of my enjoyment will surely comes from the many new events created to give the game "personality", I'm most intrigued by the ability to ally with specific "rebel" provinces and the renewed victory conditions.
I presume these were done mainly through the use of script, right?
I read somewhere about a CA tech guy commenting about the possibilities of scripting, despite the apparent inconvenience.
Even playing the beta with the new character traits is cool. It adds a bit of roleplaying to the game, as you get the feel of actually training your generals and having the results become much more apparent and useful.
Kushan
Meneldil
08-18-2005, 07:02
Awesome, easily the best preview so far
Geoffrey S
08-18-2005, 08:39
Easily the most impressive preview yet. All these new features look to create a more involving game, one which draws the player into the day to day events of ruling an ancient nation. I'm truly impressed by the continuing abilities of the EB team to add more depth to every aspect of RTW.
If it's not classified, what's the movement rate of armies? Is it similar to the old speed, or can armies march across more realistic distances now?
therother
08-18-2005, 09:25
If it's not classified, what's the movement rate of armies? Is it similar to the old speed, or can armies march across more realistic distances now?Well, one thing that is certainly declassified is that EB are using a 4 turn per year script. One advantage of this is that movement rates per year can be substantially increased whilst still allowing opposing armies to intercept any invaders. So I think it's fair to say that the movements rates per year (but not per turn of course) will be roughly double that of vanilla. Like it says above, the exact movement rates used in EB will vary depending on a number of in game factors, and that is something that will no doubt need to be balanced by testing.
Samurai Waki
08-18-2005, 09:43
well at least we now know it's actually going to be a completely new gaming expirience :sombrero:
Geoffrey S
08-18-2005, 10:01
BTW, the first Parthian message is rather amusing due to a small typo. ~:)
:beam: :2thumbsup: ~:wave: :iloveyou: :grin: :smitten: :grin2: :grin3: :shocked: :pleased: :daisy: :laugh2: :happy: :speechless: :jawdrop: :jumping: :jumping: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :fainting: :gring: :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers:
If can do all that...
Too good!!!!
Like someone said, you may make RTW what I hope for at first!!!!
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
O_Stratigos
08-18-2005, 10:42
Talk about "thinking outside the box"! :yes: Remarkable preview indeed, congrats all around!! :thumbsup:
O_Stratigos :bow:
Conqueror
08-18-2005, 10:48
The only thing I dislike in this preview is the victory conditions, which seem even more restrictive than the standard RTW goal of capturing Rome.
Malrubius
08-18-2005, 10:56
The game doesn't have to end when the victory conditions are achieved. ~:)
Oh man, i can`t believe in this. It is to beautiful to be true, you are making a completely new game.
Conqueror
08-18-2005, 11:26
The game doesn't have to end when the victory conditions are achieved. ~:)
I know that, I was just thinking that I might not want to capture all the required territories, instead expanding to a different direction. And then one of the AI controlled factions on the other side of the world map reaches it's own victory conditions and "wins".
Birka Viking
08-18-2005, 11:50
Wonderfull.....easily the best preview so far......Can't wait for the open beta.. ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
Mr Jones
08-18-2005, 12:14
i really don't know wat to say. this is the happiest day of my life thus far.
You make my dream of RTW come true :bow:
I really like the victory conditions for each faction. Personal Iam bored when my only task is to conquer as much provinces as i can. I like different strategic goals with a detailed background and some kind of a "reward" when i archieve such a goal (a nice message, short video clip etc.). Such things motivate me to play a campaign.
Also iam very happy with the implementation of many new events. They really add atmosphere to the game and give me the feeling of a living ancient world. Maybe you can trigger some random events that their appearing depends on what the player does in his campaign. For example if he is very successful, then a event could be appear that a region of him declares independence and so the player has to fight first the rebellion before he can continue his conquests. This events should help to keep the campaign interesting and challenging through all the years. Even when i have conquered complete western europe, it should then not be sure that i win the campaign. There should always be the danger to lose something you have conquered or even to get complete defeated. Winning the campaing or completing all victory conditions of the faction should be a real challenge.
I fully believe that you guys can make RTW what it should be !
The Stranger
08-18-2005, 13:23
:beam: :2thumbsup: ~:wave: :iloveyou: :grin: :smitten: :grin2: :grin3: :shocked: :pleased: :daisy: :laugh2: :happy: :speechless: :jawdrop: :jumping: :jumping: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :fainting: :gring: :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers:
If can do all that...
Too good!!!!
Like someone said, you may make RTW what I hope for at first!!!!
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
i tottally agree
Greek_fire19
08-18-2005, 13:31
Will someone explain how this whole 'allying with rebels' thing works? Because the screenshot with the messanger is a little frustrating- it cuts off the important bit.
'If you send a competent general North....' what happens? Do they automatically become yours? Or do they just not attack you, and then become yours after you have won?
Also, the messangers message looked like it was written specifically for Pontus. Does this mean that it is simply an 'event' that takes place at a certain date and will happen every time you play the game? Or will it be a random event that might or might not happen?
Also, when chersonesos is attacked, (for example) does it actually go and look for someone to ally with to protect them? Or is it a cause=effect that if the sarmatians attack chersonesos the rebels in chersonesos will send a message to pontus and become part of pontus' empire?
Annyhow, yep, I was sceptical before this preview about how much of RTW could actually be changed apart from superficial things, given the restrictions, but...well yeah, I'v changed my mind.
hmm ya I always wondered if the AI will break the alliance without any reason? unless its war that is :help: and nice preview!
Epistolary Richard
08-18-2005, 14:13
Will someone explain how this whole 'allying with rebels' thing works? Because the screenshot with the messanger is a little frustrating- it cuts off the important bit.
'If you send a competent general North....' what happens? Do they automatically become yours? Or do they just not attack you, and then become yours after you have won?
Also, the messangers message looked like it was written specifically for Pontus. Does this mean that it is simply an 'event' that takes place at a certain date and will happen every time you play the game? Or will it be a random event that might or might not happen?
Also, when chersonesos is attacked, (for example) does it actually go and look for someone to ally with to protect them? Or is it a cause=effect that if the sarmatians attack chersonesos the rebels in chersonesos will send a message to pontus and become part of pontus' empire?
Ah, I afraid you're confusing two different features there. There was no screenshot for the alliances with Independent Cities, the Pontos screenshot was for an entirely different event - specific to Pontos. It's an event that may happen or may not, depending on how the game develops and the actions of other factions.
The alliances with independent cities run completely independently of the diplomatic engine - they represent the fact that many nations had close cultural, trading and societal bonds with their neighbours - and also that aggressive action by other factions against nearby cities cannot be ignored. So you're no longer able to expand and swallow up independent settlements without considering the consequences on the nearby factions. They're there to give a more authentic version of the political world at the start date and will gradually fade away, allowing you complete control over how your relationships with other factions (well, as much control as you might expect to have). LorDBulA handled a lot of the work behind this and brought a lot of his experience from his Siegemod.
-------~:eek:
:jawdrop: O me god! :jawdrop:
the_handsome_viking
08-18-2005, 14:58
it appears that the advice woman has been replaced with some bearded dude.
have you got a voice actor to read out all his text?
that would be pretty cool.
UglyandHasty
08-18-2005, 15:00
Great job gents ! Its the best update yet.
I have a small question, i look around and couldnt find my answer. Will EB reduce move and kill speed ? :bow:
Greek_fire19
08-18-2005, 15:54
Thanks Epistolary Richard! that cleared a lot of things up, and it sounds fantastic. Does this mean that individual Rebel states can be more aggressive and launch attacks on your cities?
Divinus Arma
08-18-2005, 16:00
I thought EB was just a map/unit mod, which would have been fine... but dear God!
You shocked the hell out of me when you announced types of governments...
And now this? This is amazing. You guys aren't just changing the cabinets in the kitchen, you're breaking down the walls and rebuilding the house!
Every now and again a game comes along that is nearly infinitely replayable. You know the type. These are the ones we can stay up playing during all-nighters, and can't wait to get on when you wake up. These are the games that you can play anytime after purchase and still be hooked all over agin. The type of game you play when the novelty of the newest game is over. These are the classics, the old stand-bys.
RTW had the potential to be that game. Now we see that potential fulfilled. This really is an incredible feat. An amazing accomplishment. EB is everything that this game could possibly be. I think I am going to cry.
Is there anything you have left untouched?
Epistolary Richard
08-18-2005, 16:08
The rebels will be as aggressive as they ever are - possibly more so as the team has put effort into rounding them out into proper sub-kingdoms rather than just being a simple bump in the road to empire.
The 'alliance' between a faction and a nearby independent city is primarily in place to influence how the faction reacts to other factions that may endanger their own interests in that area. While there are trading relations and cultural affinity, that has never historically prevented warfare erupting!
So, conflicts between yourself and your 'allied' city can certainly happen without invalidating your overriding interests in the area. Even if Rome is having difficulty with the Sicilians for example, they still wouldn't be prepared to allow Carthage to take the island - it would be too much of a threat to their homeland security.
Equally, should you choose to impose your control over the city more directly by invasion you can expect them to defend their homes vigorously.
Ideally we would have had myriad different factions to represent all these societies and your diplomatic relations could be as complex as with any other faction - alas there are limitations that simply prevent that. We can simulate some aspects of it in other ways, which is what we're doing. You should always remember that the open beta is only going to be able to include a prototype version of some of these new game features. There'll be lots more exciting work and development to do once the open beta has been released before a final version - and then beyond that - in other mods that choose to pick up these ideas and focus on them more.
tzinacan
08-18-2005, 16:38
again
I WANT TO HELP :charge: :charge: !!!
Organizin data and writing dec sounds good to me
let me know :bow: :bow:
Steppe Merc
08-18-2005, 16:58
I hope that we wont have to manually start the various scripts every time we load a game however. Did you manage to get around this?
I think you just have to press like Escape or something... I'm not sure which key, but you do have to do something.
vizigothe
08-18-2005, 17:06
cant wait for this to come out
Epistolary Richard
08-18-2005, 17:25
I think you just have to press like Escape or something... I'm not sure which key, but you do have to do something.
What we've done is try to integrate the activation as seamlessly into the game as possible, some player involvement will be involved unfortunately (they'll have to click a button, maybe two) but from our internal beta testing we reckon that players will quickly get used to it once they get the hang of things.
it appears that the advice woman has been replaced with some bearded dude.
have you got a voice actor to read out all his text?
that would be pretty cool.
Different advisors for different cultures ~;)
But as usual ER is the best person to describe it.
Epistolary Richard
08-18-2005, 17:33
Yes, SaFe is quite correct, we have different advisors for different cultures (a couple of whom you may recognise :grin:). We're using placeholders at the moment, which we're hoping to change to better artwork - probably not unitl after the beta though. No speech for them yet, unfortunately either, again, it's a low priority.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
08-18-2005, 19:07
I have a small question, i look around and couldnt find my answer. Will EB reduce move and kill speed ? :bow:Done. And still tweaking it.
Marinakis
08-18-2005, 19:54
have you guys gotten a script together so carthage and rome come into conflict again. Like how the CA script did?
P.S. this preview is utterly amazing. i cant wait for this mod!
Spendios
08-18-2005, 20:05
This preview is simply amazing EB will be a completely new game!!!
Congratulations !!!
Steppe Merc
08-18-2005, 20:25
Marinakis, not sure about that specific event, but I do know that we will not force factions to go to war with a specific faction at a specific date. This is because depending on how a faction expands, different wars would start.
But ER can answer it better.
Epistolary Richard
08-18-2005, 20:30
That's right. We did discuss recreating the Punic wars and so forth as they historically started, but it was decided that that was against the idea of 'setting the table'. While EB has put every effort into making the start date as authentic as possible, we felt that it should be then up to the player to decide how to develop his faction. Obviously we have taken the trouble to recreate some events, but it's intended that they be provoked by the player's (or the AI's) actions and not just set at a date, which is historically accurate but perhaps completely out of keeping with how the player is playing the game.
The goal is to, wherever possible, understand and set conditions for specific things happening. Not to simply script those things to happen on a particular date; to understand why they happened, and then look for that cause as the game progresses.
Teleklos Archelaou
08-18-2005, 20:36
At our start date, all kinds of things are possible. A Roman-Carthaginian alliance against the Greeks maybe, the very next year? Hey, it could happen! Look it up! :book:
Marinakis
08-18-2005, 20:46
That's right. We did discuss recreating the Punic wars and so forth as they historically started, but it was decided that that was against the idea of 'setting the table'. While EB has put every effort into making the start date as authentic as possible, we felt that it should be then up to the player to decide how to develop his faction. Obviously we have taken the trouble to recreate some events, but it's intended that they be provoked by the player's (or the AI's) actions and not just set at a date, which is historically accurate but perhaps completely out of keeping with how the player is playing the game.
sounds about right, thanx for the response
UglyandHasty
08-18-2005, 21:05
Done. And still tweaking it.
Thank you sir. I will download the open beta as soon it's released. You gents are creating a lot of expectation with your mod. :bow:
Awesome.
I had a lot of expectations... but you surpased them. The little history buff in me can't wait to experience your mod.
~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek:
How in the...What?, Thats...
Wow, just, just WOW...This mod has transcended the status of a mere "mod" its like a totaly remake!
I am awed by your infinite genious :bow:
It all sounds excellent, Khelvan. I really liked the Glorious Achievements of MTW - although they were half-baked for some factions - and personally find conquering X provinces rather dull and lacking in historical flavour. Sounds like you are proposing something similar to GA here, but in an innovative way.
shifty157
08-19-2005, 01:59
I thought victory conditions were hardcoded. Howd you manage to get around the 'take rome and 50 provinces'?
We didn't, as far as I know. We just have the system ignore it when it happens, I believe.
shifty157
08-19-2005, 02:08
Ah. I see what youre saying. So when the faction specific conditions are met you get a little message saying congratulations but you technically dont actually win? So technically the game really doesnt have an end?
I don't know, this is out of my league now, Epistolary Richard is going to have to answer this one.
Southern Hunter
08-19-2005, 06:15
Extraordinary :dizzy2:
That looks like an amazing set of changes and additions, and as others have commented, appears to take the game to 'where it should and could have been'.
Cheers,
Hunter
Good Work EB team, ive said it before but this preview easily surpasses whats come before, some of the new features look amazing. I love the idea of the Olympic games, i allways thought that vanilla was a bare bones game, but it seems youve quite nicely fleshed it out. The best thing of all though is that your not showing us everything so there is more to look forward to ~D btw, im not sure if this is the correct thread but i missed out on the closed beta so i would like to spare some of my time to help out if i can. I dont have any particular skills, but i do have plenty of free time :bow:
fantastic work. It looks as though you want the player to experience a closer connection with the faction members.
therother
08-19-2005, 12:38
Very much so, yes, it's one of our main objectives in this area.
Rodion Romanovich
08-19-2005, 13:46
Very nice preview as usual! Can't wait to the open beta... Really cool that you've managed to add all those useful features despite all hardcoded stuff in R:TW!
This is all awesome news. I'd still like to hear more about governments - I'm sure this will somehow tie into the diplomatic relations with independent cities or 'sub-kingdoms' as Richard put it.
Also...couldn't help but notice, the notice that the player will receive upon capturing Babylon (messagebabylon7kc.jpg) should read "magnificent feat", not "magnicifent feet". Unless, of course, I completely misunderstood the context and the messenger really is trying to get his lord to compare foot size with that of the Seven Hanging Heavens... ~;p
Ellesthyan
08-20-2005, 01:17
Dude... :dizzy2:
I mean like, DUDE! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
May the six Chinese smilers make the sky above your house turn blue!
Magnificent stuff. Two questions; what will be the benefit of capturing a famous city for the general? And what famous characters can we expect, and will new ones pop up from time to time? I'm thinking about the obvious Hannibal, Caesar and Mithridates for example.
Sorry, I can't answer the first - I think it depends on the general. I believe, though, various factions may have Triumph or Triumph-like awards given to/in honor of the general.
On the second, there is no chance. We can't create a character by name, unfortunately. :(
caesar44
08-20-2005, 16:25
If just EB's could make the Punics to invade Italy in 264 and again in 218 no matter what , that is , to some how combine historical events with the gameplay .
Another idea is to prevent faction to invade some provinces until a fixed date according to history , the Roman could not invade Germania until 54 bce or some thing like that . in MTW VI the british tribes could not invade Scandia no matter what , why ? for the sake of history . ha ?
what about the plague in makedonia ? still there?
Conqueror
08-20-2005, 17:52
If just EB's could make the Punics to invade Italy in 264 and again in 218 no matter what , that is , to some how combine historical events with the gameplay .
While you're at it, make it so that they also lose in the end no matter what, along with all the other peoples that lost to the Romans. Yeah, that'll make for a nice game... :no:
If just EB's could make the Punics to invade Italy in 264 and again in 218 no matter whatWhy would we want to do that? The game begins in 272 BC. The conditions that created the Punic wars may not exist 10 years later. We don't script wars (although there may be something to said for wars of independence). That is up to the player to decide, and the factions.
We're not recreating history, why would we? We're setting the table, and allowing the players to write a new history, which may or may not include Punic wars.
what about the plague in makedonia ? still there?
I heard these are hardcoded. Could be wrong thou.
kayapó
nah. it's an event. cheaters change teh date ofthe plague to be able to manipulate the game. sending plagued-spies everywhere...it's an event, and can therefore be modded..a bit.
great preview. but still...How wil players "handle" the olympics. what doe steh player need to do?
what about the government? the religion system? ("pick a god, any god" is probably out teh window?)
Malrubius
08-20-2005, 19:52
How wil players "handle" the olympics. what doe steh player need to do?
Have a family member of a Hellenic faction who isn't busy fighting or doing something else, who is also fairly young and athletic, when spring of 272, or 268, or 264 BC, etc., rolls around. Then he might become an Olympic competitor (this is more likely for Makedonians and the Koinon Hellenon, least likely for Baktrians). So, not much has to be done, except to keep the guy inactive during spring of Olympic years, so he is able to "travel" to Korinthos.
what will be the benefit of capturing a famous city for the general?
This varies widely, and of course, depends on the city and the general's faction. This area is still very much in development. We've done a handful of these, so far, as examples of what can be done. Some factions have more special events/traits/ancillaries than others, but we're trying to do things for all of them.
Also...couldn't help but notice, the notice that the player will receive upon capturing Babylon (messagebabylon7kc.jpg) should read "magnificent feat", not "magnicifent feet". Unless, of course, I completely misunderstood the context and the messenger really is trying to get his lord to compare foot size with that of the Seven Hanging Heavens...
~D
This varies widely, and of course, depends on the city and the general's faction. This area is still very much in development. We've done a handful of these, so far, as examples of what can be done. Some factions have more special events/traits/ancillaries than others, but we're trying to do things for all of them.
I have already PM Malrubius about this. But I'll repeat here to see if anyone has any idea if this is possible.
One aspect that I really like about RTW is the traits and ancillaries but I never understood why can't I get rid of ancillaries.
Getting rid of a trait is one thing. I imagine back then it would be really hard to find the AA to help me with my faction leader drinking problem.
But I know what he could have done with that stupid "Wise Man" that keeps getting on his nerves...hang him...
So, did you guys find anyway to delete ancillaries using this amazing new scripts that you're creating?
kayapó
Will/can Rebel Greeks compete in the Olympic games?
The_Mark
08-20-2005, 23:07
So, did you guys find anyway to delete ancillaries using this amazing new scripts that you're creating?
Generally speaking removing things is something that we really would like to do but can't.
Have a family member of a Hellenic faction who isn't busy fighting or doing something else, who is also fairly young and athletic, when spring of 272, or 268, or 264 BC, etc., rolls around. Then he might become an Olympic competitor (this is more likely for Makedonians and the Koinon Hellenon, least likely for Baktrians). So, not much has to be done, except to keep the guy inactive during spring of Olympic years, so he is able to "travel" to Korinthos.
~D
What happens to the games when a non-hellenic nation captures Corinth?
Malrubius
08-21-2005, 01:42
They still had the Olympics even after the Roman conquest. I believe Nero even participated in them once, and managed to win a chariot race even though he had fallen out his chariot. He also introduced new events like poetry and singing, and won those as well.
It's too bad that this happened outside our timeline. ~;)
They still had the Olympics even after the Roman conquest. I believe Nero even participated in them once, and managed to win a chariot race even though he had fallen out his chariot. He also introduced new events like poetry and singing, and won those as well.
It's too bad that this happened outside our timeline. ~;)
what..introduce a "olympic cheater"
Dux Corvanus
08-21-2005, 10:26
Me a cheater...? :inquisitive:
Oh, oh! So that the unjust fortune and the evil hiss of the viperine tongue of Envy must thus stain the sweet memory of a wretched artist and a soft ruler...? Worth it is that the envious perish!
:furious3:
http://www.student.hro.nl/0548160/nero_bestanden/ustinov.jpg
~D
Malrubius
08-21-2005, 12:14
Will/can Rebel Greeks compete in the Olympic games?
I'm not sure if that would be possible. I couldn't do it for the "slave" faction (which means all rebels), but maybe they're included in the "greek" culture?
And there's no point in giving the Olympionikes trait to someone like Nero. His 'achievement' is meaningless and no benefit or fame would accrue. But we do acknowledge this possibility when a Roman general conquers Korinthos.
caesar44
08-21-2005, 16:46
While you're at it, make it so that they also lose in the end no matter what, along with all the other peoples that lost to the Romans. Yeah, that'll make for a nice game... :no:
You see , just look how khelvan managed to answer my question with out using unnecessary sarcasm...but be my guest
Again , in MTW VI you could not invade Scandia , and why is that , dear Conqueror ? :dizzy2:
Wow.
I say again:
Wow.
This is really impressive. I would not believe that most of these things were possible. I have only question: will EB use moddir?
Again: excellent work. This mod is going to be great.
therother
08-24-2005, 00:45
One aspect that I really like about RTW is the traits and ancillaries but I never understood why can't I get rid of ancillaries.
Getting rid of a trait is one thing. I imagine back then it would be really hard to find the AA to help me with my faction leader drinking problem.
But I know what he could have done with that stupid "Wise Man" that keeps getting on his nerves...hang him...Well, I don't think we can go quite as far as you'd like, but we do have ideas that might make the relationship between a character and an ancillary slightly less monotonous than in vanilla RTW. Whether these ideas ever see the light of day is another question entirely...
Well, I don't think we can go quite as far as you'd like, but we do have ideas that might make the relationship between a character and an ancillary slightly less monotonous than in vanilla RTW. Whether these ideas see ever the light of day is another question entirely...
Any ideas you can share with us mere mortals? ~;)
Anyway thanks, too bad RTW is not "getting rid of" friendly.
k
Simetrical
08-24-2005, 04:30
I have only question: will EB use moddir?If you mean the -mod:my_mod switch, as far as I know, no. That switch is of quite limited use for a major mod, it has significant limitations. However, last I heard, EB should be coming with an uninstaller, although don't quote me on that.
If you mean the -mod:my_mod switch, as far as I know, no. That switch is of quite limited use for a major mod, it has significant limitations. However, last I heard, EB should be coming with an uninstaller, although don't quote me on that.
Thanks for the answer. ~:cheers:
Epistolary Richard
08-24-2005, 12:41
I've been using Vercingetorix's mod-switcher with the internal builds, with no ill-effects whatsoever :wink:
(See sig for link)
Shrapnel
08-24-2005, 16:01
Everything is awesome!:D
Southern Hunter
08-29-2005, 02:52
So, did you guys find anyway to delete ancillaries using this amazing new scripts that you're creating?
kayapó
Just give the unwanted ancillary to another character, preferably one long in the tooth and about to die :-)
the_handsome_viking
08-31-2005, 13:45
it would be cool to view a settlement on the battlefeild map and watch gladiators fight in arenas, just a suggestion.
it could work in a similar way for the olympics and chariot races.
Simetrical
09-01-2005, 04:02
I don't think that's feasible, unfortunately. If it is, I think it's safe to say it will be extremely low-priority.
Azi Tohak
09-01-2005, 04:07
WOW! I did not know basic RTW had such flexibility. I'm just amazed. Great job guys! ~:cheers:
Azi
Divinus Arma
09-14-2005, 10:24
I just read over this thread again and I am well, amazed, again.
I have a question about the EB advisor. Since there were 2 advisors in the game, are there 2 advisors (or more) in EB?
Secondly, and more importantly, what exactly is the primary function of the EB advisor?
Thank you, Gents. :bow:
Shigawire
09-14-2005, 14:13
Cool modders learn how to spell Vercingetorix
Haha, damn right! :charge:
I just read over this thread again and I am well, amazed, again.
I have a question about the EB advisor. Since there were 2 advisors in the game, are there 2 advisors (or more) in EB?
Secondly, and more importantly, what exactly is the primary function of the EB advisor?
Thank you, Gents. :bow:
don't know what may be said but lets just say that EB is a complete conversion and tries to change every aspect of the game to be more historical and fun ~;).
I hope this awsers your question ~:)
Divinus Arma
09-15-2005, 02:35
don't know what may be said but lets just say that EB is a complete conversion and tries to change every aspect of the game to be more historical and fun ~;).
I hope this awsers your question ~:)
Uhm. No.
Anyone from EB want to throw an answer my way please?
The_Mark
09-15-2005, 13:51
We have plans for the advisor...
Though the advisor being quite a low-priority feature it has been left mainly untouched.
Uhm. No.
Anyone from EB want to throw an answer my way please?
ever read a text of Marcus Aurelius or others? the trick is to read between the lines...
i thought i saw some screenies of changed advisors...
https://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9527/cher08wd0au.jpg
Divinus Arma
09-17-2005, 23:51
I saw the screenies. That was what got me going. I thought I had a fairly simple question, but seeing how it went unanswered, I decided it would be well enough to let it alone. They have their reasons and I will just give them the benefit of the doubt.
Malrubius
09-18-2005, 00:06
I have a question about the EB advisor. Since there were 2 advisors in the game, are there 2 advisors (or more) in EB?
Secondly, and more importantly, what exactly is the primary function of the EB advisor?
As The_Mark said, it has been a low priority in light of the other work. For the open beta, he'll pop up and tell you to click the "show me how" button to start the script when you load a saved game, as his main function. He may pop up on a few other occasions, like in that screenshot. More capabilities will be added after the open beta release.
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