View Full Version : What is your Army mostly made of?
The reason I ask is that everyone tends to specialize in something. Maybe not directly or on purpose but we all tend to do it I notice. If someone could make this a poll that would be great.
So what are you heavy on
Polearms
Men at Arms
Heavy Calv
Light Calv
Artillery
Archers
Horse Archers
Axemen
Peasants (yeah, thats my main strategy too, to suck)
Honestly, I would go for Heavy Infantry. I'm not saying that I am good, but it works for me because I suck at spears (Even in perfect formation, they just don't work for me I guess) I split between Polearms like the Billmen and Men at Arms. Then for like the last 4 slots, I would go archers and horses.
Or I go heavy archers - works great on CPU - but I have never been a heavy horse person.
Knight Templar
08-20-2005, 13:28
My armies are mostly made of heavy inf, although I try to have 5 cav units in every battle. When playing as Eggs or Turks, I mostly rely on Saracen inf Ghulam cav.
Emerald Wolf
08-20-2005, 15:24
I'm still finding my nich on the battle field. It's a pain in the balls to get the damn units to follow thier orders. Not really the units fault but more of a lack of quality grasp of the game controls. Not quite sure whjat does what yet.
I got the strategic part down like nothing. If I auto-calc I make the world my bitch. If I fight for myself, I'm boned like in a prison movie.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
08-20-2005, 16:19
4-10 slots: cavalry
2-5 slots: artillery
remaining slots: medium/heavy infantry
Ironside
08-20-2005, 19:25
Well it depends, but commonly atleast 2 ranged units (often 4-6) and atleast 2 cav (often 4-6 there too) and the rest a mix of swords, spears and non-halb polearms (they are too slow for me).
Occationaly I go heavy on cav, and should probably do that more often as I'm quite good at it (lure with faint charges, hitting both flanks at the same time, etc).
I never use more than 4 horse archers as horse archers at the same time as I usually loose control of them after that and I'm too impatient with weaker horse-archers. Can I hit the back I'll do it, even if the enemy unit is almost at full strength. So I like heavy horse archers ~D
Muslims are being my favorite factions, especially the Egyptians. I like to have equal parts Saracens and Arab/Arab Heavy infantry, maybe some archers thrown in (not always cause I use the javelins of the Arabs) and I top it off with some Saharan cavalry which run at the speed of sound.
Forward Observer
08-20-2005, 19:42
I firmly believe that you can win just about any campaign with an army composed of about 40% armored spearmen mixed with any other heavy infantry you happen to acquire, 40% mixed missile troops, and to round out the mix---10 to 20% medium cavalry that can use both swords and bows---like the Russian Boyers for example. Add a level 6 general or better and you can usually kick butt across the continent.
A little light cav is OK for attacking archers or chasing down routers, and of course a seige engine or two for castle assaults if you are inclined to bother with them.
I used to have what seemed be better than normal odds luck with a catapult taking out an attacking general when I first started playing, but this pretty much stopped happening after a patch or the expansion.
Cheers
I think of troop combinations as a graph with many peaks and I use many peaks.
I first thought that using spearmen and cavalry was the best tactic and it still is for many situations. You can hold anything in position with spearmen, for a while, then flank them with cavalry.
I then became a cavalry addict, I'd usually bring infantry into a battle along with me, but get impatient and just swarm the enemy with cavalry, charging through cracks in their line and flanking everything and anything, even halberdiers. This also works and I occasionally use this tactic.
I then started to use an archer spearmen swordsman arrangement after I realised that decreasing casualties is the key to victory (to have a full army after the battle is wearing on means victory, have you ever wanted just one more unit of men at arms standing by, to help your 20 knights kill off the remaining 40 halbs?) and noticed that spearmen are practically only used for stopping cavalry and pretty much a waste of space, so I developped a stereotypical, archer infantry cavalry troop selection.
I then went back to using spearmen and cavalry, except to use the spearmen to draw troops of a hill and flank them william the conquerror style, except with the cavalry and infantry roles swapped.
I never really use 1 unit, they all have their strengths and weaknesses and I have to use more than 1. Though I guess cavalry are extremely useful in attack and men at arms in a forest are extremely good in defense.
Cav archers, heavy cav, and men at arms, along with a few missile troops up front.
ichi :bow:
noticed that spearmen are practically only used for stopping cavalry and pretty much a waste of space, so I developped a stereotypical, archer infantry cavalry troop selection.
Thats why I love Billmen so much that I only really play English. I just hate spearmen so much. Maybe because I don't know how to use them well even knowing that I read how from Frog.
I have a normal arrangement. Spears, Swordman, Archers and Cav. I have about 2 units of Spears to protect my archers then about 4-5 longbow units (I play the English A LOT too) then my Swordman (how ever many I want ~;) ) then a general unit and 3-4 Cav. units. With the Cav. if its very hilly terrain I like to take one or two units the long way around the battle field so I can really pull a flank. Thats about it.
m52nickerson
08-21-2005, 02:58
Three units of Alabasters in front
then four units of Halbs
four units of men-at-arms
two units of a missle cav, normally Stepp heavy cav
two units of chivic Knights.
Dutch_guy
08-21-2005, 11:46
I usually go Infanty heavy , especially with the Catholics. And I use some cav, for hunting and capturing the enemy routers.
I don't really go Cavalry heavy , 4 units is definatly the most, and if I use Cav , I use lancers.
As for archers , 4 units , and I always tech up to Pav. arbelasters as soon as I can. Especially when facing horse archer/ archer heavy army's like the GH.
When I can later in the game I usually put some Halbs, and anti-armor units in my stacks.
:balloon2:
Spearmen are defenders, they get in the way of enemy units and can usually hold off even man at arms for a long period of time, if they hold formation and their flanks are protected. They take too long to kill anything to be strategically useful in any other way, whic his why they seem to useless. In the campaign game they can be quite cheap and elite chivalric spearmen can be quite useful.
I like to play as the Anglos, and after I get most of my units, this is what I choose:
3-4 Longbowmen(or archers depending on whem I'm at)
2 Heavy Cav
3-4 Light Cav(it sucks that I can't get mounted cav)
Remaining: Mix of Spear, and support infantry(Billmen, Mounted Sergeants...depending on when I'm at)
Basically, regardless of whether I'm attacking or not, I open up with a couple volleys with my archers, swing the the light cav /WAY/ to the side, position my footmen according to what I'm faced with and keep my heavy cav as reserve. When I see that one of my units is in danger, or that I see an opportunity I send in my heavy cavs. In the meantime, I use about half my light cav to attack the far flanks of the enemy, and the rest I use to ambush any fleeing enemy units or just send them against the rear of the enemy(whichever's best at the time).
Another favoured tactic of mine is to use my light cav to lead off some of the opponent's better units. (I once had a merc unit of mounted crossbowman lead off a 6-7 star ghulam general for the majority of the battle which is about the single best thing I did in that battle).
Also, I like using light cav as screens as someone mentionned, really, heavy cav I don't use all that often...Also, I only use some of my archers ammo, the rest I hold back for when I'm in the actual battle, I swing them off to the side, and pepper the enemy's flanks where the risks of friendly fire are minimal.
Also, I like making battlegrounds of like 1 heavy spear to pin down the enemy, and then send my support infantry(billmen usually) against the flanks of whatever unit(s) the spearmen are fighting.
Sorry for typo, battlegrounds of 2-3 infantry units. 1 spear accompanied by 1-2 billmen. The spear usually take minimal damage, but also cause minimal damage, it's the billmen who usually do most of the damage.
And as for the crossbow-ghulam bodyguard thing I mentionned, you should believe me on that. I offed about 2767+ enemy units and I was probably less than 1000. Light cav turns the tide more often than my heavy cav for me. Even if it isn't particularly realistic.
Damn it!!! battleGROUPS.
Also, is it just me, or compared to halberdiers/billmen do the swordsmen(even the chivalric ones) suck?
Swords are the most versatile troop, and can usually beat spears and polearms (when all other factors are equal), but low valor swords can be vulnerable to heavy cav.
Consider this. After thousands upon thousands of MP games people have worked out the strongest armies. You'll see pavise xbows and arbs, cavalry (light, heavy, and archer), and depending on the situation you'll see hybrid Muslims like Nizaris or Janis, some LBs, and some polearms like JHI, Bills, and Swiss Halbs.
But in every game you will see lots of swords, FMAA and CMAA. The reaso you see this is that people have found that these units are the best value, strong for the money, and can be used very effectively. Sort of like natural selection.
Once more, this idea that this type of unit sucks or that type of unit rocks really isnt valid. Any unit can rock at high morale/valor, just as any V0 unit can suck if used improperly.
IMO its best to use troops that are suited for your style of play, use them in the manner for which they are intended, and have a variety of troop types at your disposal to use as the situation arises.
ichi :bow:
Being a Turcophile, my armies are extremely on hybrid archer units, with a few JHI or Saracens for pinning.
I avoid full contact until I have skirmished the hell out of an enemy formation and, hopefully, divided their forces. Run, shoot, run, shoot, draw units towards fast missile cavalry, repeat.
edyzmedieval
08-22-2005, 09:59
SInce I'm a Byzantophile I use:
1 Kataphraktoi( the general)
2 Pronoiai Allagion
2 Alan Mercenary Cavalry
3 Trebizond Archers
1 Varangian Guard
3 Byzantine Infantry
4 Spearmen
Advo-san
08-22-2005, 10:08
Hello edyz, nice to see you mate!
I m getting to enjoy polearms, especially when waged by chivalric foot knights!
bretwalda
08-22-2005, 16:13
Horse archers (even vanilla HA) In the beginning of the game I even conquer provinces with only HA (or Turcoman Horse or Szekely) Excellent against rebel troops that don't have archers (or only 1 unit that you run down instantly) I take 1 or 2 spearmen and maybe one other foot troops.
Later I add some heavier cavalry, foot archers and slowly every type as needed. However I am not such a big fan of heavy infantry troops. I like flexibility and they are slow and tire fast. They just don't fit my style: I usually win the battle with the fast units by the time the slow ones catch up (it is good the catch the enemy moving before it dug in on a hillytop with its back to the edge of the map.)
4 polearms, 4 swords, 4 archers, 2 light horses, 2 heavy horses
Swords are the most versatile troop, and can usually beat spears and polearms (when all other factors are equal), but low valor swords can be vulnerable to heavy cav.
Consider this. After thousands upon thousands of MP games people have worked out the strongest armies. You'll see pavise xbows and arbs, cavalry (light, heavy, and archer), and depending on the situation you'll see hybrid Muslims like Nizaris or Janis, some LBs, and some polearms like JHI, Bills, and Swiss Halbs.
But in every game you will see lots of swords, FMAA and CMAA. The reaso you see this is that people have found that these units are the best value, strong for the money, and can be used very effectively. Sort of like natural selection.
Once more, this idea that this type of unit sucks or that type of unit rocks really isnt valid. Any unit can rock at high morale/valor, just as any V0 unit can suck if used improperly.
IMO its best to use troops that are suited for your style of play, use them in the manner for which they are intended, and have a variety of troop types at your disposal to use as the situation arises.
ichi :bow:
Hey, I love my Swabian Swordsmen :knight: . Strong for the money as you
said ~;) . Although they lose quite often, they take alot of the enemy with
them :skull: .
I love Swabbies in Early. Give them some armor and they do very well. Get a unit of Swabbies to flank and watch the heads fly
ichi :bow:
PittBull260
08-23-2005, 02:22
10 units of heavy cavalry, 6 units of light cavalry/cavalry archers
Fabolous
08-23-2005, 02:30
Normally I get pretty lazy when building armies so I just make 11 of my armies basic infantry and 5 cavalry made up of some combination of my king, princes and basic cav for that faction.
Honestly I pretty much use whatever I can scrape together. I like to win battles strategically, by utilizing superior mobility and force distribution to concentrate my strength where the opponent is weak. My main weapon is my florins. ~;)
Its a rare event when I'm attacking from fewer than three different provinces. As a result I can't build a 'perfect' army. So I heavily utilize what I like to call 'fire-and-forget' troops. Highlanders, Gallowglass, Militia, Light Cavalry, any Mercenary. They die fast, but achieve a KtD ratio of greater than 1/1 while coming in nicely sized units. Add in a couple Feudal Sergeants to provide a line for my fire-and-forgets to flank off of and a core of a couple/few ranged units and always, always one heavy cav.
The basic plan is to be willing to sacrifice as many men as possible to achieve victory. Two units of mercenary Italian Light Infantry can hold off five times their number long enough for you to exploit the numerical superiority of all other forces on the field to crush the opponent. Sure, those two Italian Lights will rout and be annihilated, but by that time the enemy has a few hundred men and you've still got half a stack.
Now unfortunately this doesn't work in the desert. You see the Muslims love routing and regrouping, and have hugely massive numbers. In addition, operating from an ocean away I can concentrate force on any single province to attack it, but I can't get off the coast using my standard tactics. So I make a super-stack. My best General always heads my Middle East task force, which consists entirely of national troops. Can't trust mercenaries when reinforcements will be unavailable for the 4 years it takes to build a port. No bows, only lots of arbalests, two units of Hobilars or equivalent light cav, lots of the best spear available which is hopefully Chivalric Sergeants. Also, one or two units of the best knights available, dismounted. Find the biggest hill and set up the world's staunchest static defense, and do not, ever, ever, ever chase down the enemy. Let the rout, reform, attack, rout without doing anything, reform, etc. Their 40+ units aren't a big deal when only a few reinforcements manage to trickle in before the defenders win by time. The cavalry and foot knights are there to render the troops impotent, by killing the enemy commander. Always, always ALWAYS kill the Muslim prince who's leading the huge attack. The morale penalty guarantees that their forces will waste twenty minutes or more rallying, charging and routing before they touch you.
That is the best way to tackle muslims in my opinion, however i would suggest that having missle superiority is important aswell. If a 1/3 of your units are longbows they will waste the muslim cav archers.
Nice informative post Talain-- good tactics ~:thumb: .
and Welcome to the forums! ~:cheers:
Eternal Champion
08-23-2005, 15:08
I try to go square (4-4-4-4) or nearly square as much as possible. This gives enough flexibility for attack or defense. Lately I've cut down on the spears and added additional swords or cav unless the enemy is cav heavy. I always bring a couple of spears to stop/pin cav charges as nothing does it better. But more often then not, I'm patching together full stacks with the best combo of "full units" I can to continue or counter attack. Much like Patron I've run the gamut of fav combos and think experience and current game/faction conditions keeps the ultimate combo as an elusive goal.
That is the best way to tackle muslims in my opinion, however i would suggest that having missle superiority is important aswell. If a 1/3 of your units are longbows they will waste the muslim cav archers.
Longbows run out of arrows by the end of the first wave, and the stinking Egyptians or Turks always have a second and usually a third wave. I'd rather have arbalesters who will last the duration.
Nice informative post Talain-- good tactics ~:thumb: .
and Welcome to the forums! ~:cheers:
Thanks! ~:cool:
Kommodus
08-24-2005, 21:02
With most Catholic factions, I like to have lots of polearms and arbalesters in my army, with some cavalry (heavy, medium, and/or light) in support. The arbalesters provide superior ranged fire, and the polearms provide a balanced, capable infantry force that has no serious weaknesses.
The Turkish have my favorite army, and a good Turkish army includes a balance of JHI and hybrid infantry units, as well as a fair number of Turkomen Horse and a few heavy cavalry units for mobility.
The only factions I would go sword-heavy with are the Almohads and the Byzantines (although Byz armies should replace BI with VG wherever possible). BI and AUM need a lot of support from other units to truly be successful.
antisocialmunky
08-24-2005, 21:52
Longbows run out of arrows by the end of the first wave, and the stinking Egyptians or Turks always have a second and usually a third wave. I'd rather have arbalesters who will last the duration.
Thanks! ~:cool:
LOL, arbs vs camels and desert rats. That's the worst waste of AP arrows ever. In the desert, the only archers you need are regular archers and L-Bows. Anything else will roast.
If you ever have problems with arrows and reinforcements. Just make 16 unit stacks of nothing but archers. In the battle, you can just rotate spent archers out of the line as the enemy routs and sends in another wave.
As a Catholic faction, I used to use about spears, archers, inf, and cav, all fairly balanced. Recently, however, I've reduced my spears to ~ 2 units, ~ 2 archers (unless defending), ~8 inf, and ~ 4 cav. I usually keep all my inf on hold formation until they're engaged, and then go Engage at Will. They can take a cav charge like that long enough for me to flank if I can't get one of my spears to intercept first.
LOL, arbs vs camels and desert rats. That's the worst waste of AP arrows ever. In the desert, the only archers you need are regular archers and L-Bows. Anything else will roast.
If you ever have problems with arrows and reinforcements. Just make 16 unit stacks of nothing but archers. In the battle, you can just rotate spent archers out of the line as the enemy routs and sends in another wave.
I don't usually have enough archers to spare for that, and anyway I've noticed that as long as they just stand still the Arbalesters will last an entire engagement without being exhausted.
EatYerGreens
08-25-2005, 03:12
@antisocialmunky & Talain
Any truth to my suspicion that arb/pav ammo only lasts longer because they have a slower rate of fire?
We've probably all seen the documentaries where they demonstrate how the LBman can get off about three or four shots in the time it takes the bolt-firer to hand-crank the device to be ready for his second shot?
I can see plusses on both sides here. The arbs provide a sustained missile-fire morale hit on one unit after another but maybe kill fewer men per unit, so your meleé units have to work a bit harder and you don't have to worry about the logistics of rotating units if it's uninterrupted holding of ground which you're trying to achieve. I have no qualms with rotating units around and the upside is that I may get more than one missile unit boosting their valour level in one battle. Given time, valoured archer units are good enough to join in the task of frightening the peasant-end of the enemy reinforcement queue off the field, at the end. Handy when my swords and spears are totally clapped out.
They can also march fast enough to be used as Cavalry lures, to draw their fresh horses towards my knackered ones, so mine don't have to run too far, yet my archers can still run to safety behind a spear line in time. I suspect that I wouldn't be able to be so reckless with arbs but I need to build up more experience with them. I kept abandoning campaigns (boredom, file corruption, HDD failures) before getting far into the High period.
Pavvies Are Useless!!!
Charrrge!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Longbows run out of arrows by the end of the first wave"
That's the point, isn't it?
"Longbows run out of arrows by the end of the first wave"
That's the point, isn't it?
Exactly. So you can rotate out your used Longbowmen or new guys as they are retreating and bringing on their re-inforcements. I just experienced this exact thing last night. It's my Norwegian (XL Mod) Conquest Campaign, Hard.
The Egyptians own over half the map. And the Spanish just re-emerged in Northern Africa. I had mobilized a previous army to storm all the desert regions from Morrocco all the way Tripoli and Syria/Mesopatamia. It consisted of a stack of Vikings, a stack of Highland Clansmen, a stack of Welsh Longbow's and a stack of Jinette's/Mounted Seargants. With some Heavy artillery for Siege's and a Bada$$ General and some extra RK's to restock him. ~;)
So I advance up to the Spanish with my frontline of Highland Clansmen and Vikings, closely behind are my 4 units of Longbows, General and 2 units of Mounted Sergeants on the flanks. I massacre the first wave due to the massive and constant morale hit of casualties from archers and being underfire, oh and of course the slaughter by the crazy guys. ~D As they are retreating off the field I rotate out my used Longbow's and less than half strength Infantry. Repeat for 3 waves and what was a complete massacre of the Spanish. Because of that I now have 7 Units of Valour 2 Longbowmen and I just got to the Eggie's. :charge:
"Longbows run out of arrows by the end of the first wave"
That's the point, isn't it?
I'm more interested in the morale hit from missiles than the damage, usually. I'm also generally opposed to rotating troops because if I have anything but a single unit type in my reserves I can't pick which one to reinforce with, which is spectacularly annoying.
Also, I absolutely hate Ghulam Bodyguards and Kataphractoi. They never break, so I end up always having to kill them one by one. And since archers do jack to them, I like having Arbalesters, who can whittle them down and get that lucky general-shot. The only thing better for tagging their general is a retardly high valor catapult and how often do you get catapult teams to high valor?
words
Heh, this would be a wonderful strategy except I've never had an entire stack (jesus that's a lot) of Welsh longbows to spare, or a stack of Highlanders for that matter! By the time I've settled my backfield well enough to have a couple provinces capable of producing Feudal Sergeants, some jerk has declared war on me/presented an unbelievable opportunity for me to backstab them, and war is on! From then until I've got about half the map I'll never be allowed peace again, because AI factions hate not stabbing you in the back. ~;) Highland Clansmen have a bit to high of a mortality rate for me to ever have 12 regiments, and Longbows are needed on every front.
And considering that even when I'm pumping troops out of every province I control my enemies invariably outnumber me on every front, I don't usually have the luxury of setting aside three provinces for 12 years to make a super stack.
Always too much :charge: :duel: going on.
Here's a Viking campaign answer: archers and Viking landsmenn. Maybe a raider cav for mopping up routers, but that's optional. Whatever's coming, shoot it up then chew it apart. Never seems to fail.
Is it just me or are the Viking units pretty darn invincible? Churning out landsmenn and even huscarles is really easy and they just chew through pretty much everything. Landsmenn will even take down horsemen without taking many casualties.
EatYerGreens
08-25-2005, 13:49
I'm more interested in the morale hit from missiles than the damage, usually. I'm also generally opposed to rotating troops because if I have anything but a single unit type in my reserves I can't pick which one to reinforce with, which is spectacularly annoying.
Sounds like you've given us yet another excuse to plug the VI upgrade.
The pre-battle screen allows you to set the exact sequence in which you want your reinforcements to come onto the field.
This is very handy when you want catapults for the follow-up siege assault but you don't want them involved in the battle (vulnerable to cav, static placement when you want mobility, frequently rendered useless by defenders hugging the map edge, out of range etc), so you stick them on the back end of the reinforcements queue and ensure they never appear.
If I open up with 2 HAs, giving harrassment on both enemy flanks, my reinforcement sequence will be something like
HA, HA, Archer, Archer
Sword, Spear, Archer Archer,
Sword, Spear, Skirmisher, Archer,
HA, HA, Archer, Archer,
(repeats the pattern)
Cav, Cav, Cav, Cav
Junk, Junk, Cat, Cat
The sequence basically attempts to anticipate the order in which missile units will run out of ammo as well as the rate of meleé unit casualties. For instance, there's no point bringing the third pair of HAs on until the second lot have had time to do their bit and withdraw. I'll need foot replacements in the meantime. The Cav replacements are way down the queue as I won't want them until the closing stages anyway. (These are Light/Med Cav, not knights, as I have Byz in mind at the moment).
In Shogun, there was a way to 'sequence' the reinforcements to some extent, by assembling the reinforcement stack, adding one unit at a time and in the reverse order of how you wanted them to appear. Top left in the info window enters the field first, bottom right last.
MTW defeats this somewhat by constantly reshuffling the sequence during assembly so that similar unit types are next to one another in the info window. Pre-VI, I still tried to use the Shogun trick but can't remember if it ever worked as I intended due to having similar troop insufficiency problems as you describe.
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