Byzantium Total War

[edyzmedieval]

Hello all modding freaks and RTW players.

I just want to announce the Byzantium Total War mod for RTW:BI 1.6. The thread will be updated regularly,with the latest progress, screenshots and everything else needed. ~:)

Let me present you the mod.

The mod, as you might expect, is about the Byzantine Empire. Asia Minor, Europe, Syria and other parts of Asia and small parts of Africa will compose the campaign map. All the units of BI will have to be removed, because of different starting dates. There will be lots of hard work, and we need skinners and modellers so we can do the mod. The focus of this mod will be the wars with the Muslims, Slavs, Sicilians and other enemies of the Byzantine Empire.

Basically the map is done, we thought about the provinces. The map will be similar to the MTW mod.

We thought about the units and some of the buildings. The Byzantine tech tree will be very detailed so the player will be imersed into the awesome history of the Byzantine Empire. If you wish to see the tech tree, come to our official forum. ~:)

The starting date will be 976, the beginning of the reign of the greatest Byzantine Emperor, Vasile II the Macedonian. The ending date will be 1453, when Constantinople finally fell, and it marked the end of the Byzantine empire.

The Factions
===========
Ealry Era

The Byzantine Empire
Norman Kingdom of Sicily
Italian States
Papacy
Seldjuk Turks
Bulgar Kingdom
Cumans
Pecheneg tribes
Hungarian Kingdom
Kingdom of Kiev
Khazar Khaganate
Holy Roman Empire
Polish Kingdom
Crusader States
Fatimid Caliphate
Kingdom of Serbia
Rebels

High Era

Latin Empire of Constantinople
Empire of Niceea
Empire of Trebizond
Norman Kingdom of Sicily
Italian City States
Papacy
Seldjuk Turks
Bulgar Kingdom
Cumans
Kingdom of Armenia
Kingdom of Georgia
Hungarian Kingdom
Kingdom of Kiev
Holy Roman Empire
Crusader States
Polish Kingdom
Mamluk Sultanate
Kingdom of Aragon
Kingdom of Serbia
Rebels

Late Era

Byzantine Empire
Empire of Trebizond
Ottoman Empire
Emirate of Karaman
Norman Kingdom of Sicily
Italian City States
Papacy
Bulgar Kingdom
Kingdom of Serbia
Kingdom of Hungary
Wallachia
Moldavia
Holy Roman Empire
Mamluk Sultanates
Kingdom of Poland
Kingdom of Kiev

Mod progress(will be updated regularly)
=========================
Historical research: about 65%
Planning tech trees: about 60%
Campaign map: 10%
Units: 40%
New factions: 0%
Coding: 15%
Scripting: 0%
Testing: 0%
Multiplayer: 0%

Detailed stuff about our work
====================
Historical research - about 65%
- we have done lots and lots of historical research
- we started researching for the High Era

Campaign map - about 10% done.
-working on the terrain and geological stuff

Units - about 40% done
- we are still searching for more historical resources
- we have about 115 units made

Byzantines: 100% completed
Crusader States: 35-40% completed
Bulgars: 30% completed
Normans: 20% completed
HRE: 5% completed

New factions - we decided on them, have to implement them

Coding - we implemented most of the units we've made

Scripting - testing our unique ideas

Testing - not yet

Multiplayer - fortunately, we might have this thing implemented

We need skinners, modellers and coders.
We need one more modeller, 1 more skinner and 2 more coders. If we get these guys, the team will be complete.

We will need some extended research. If you could help, don't hesitate to post. We need info about the Khazars, Cumans. Pechenegs/// and other nomadic people.

Please visit our official forum, for exclusive screenshots and other exclusive info. ~:)
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?act=idx

Members
======
Modding team
Main Leader
Edyzmedieval -Project and team leader;
- buildings, campmap and settlement plans
- Public Relations
- Coding

Skinning/Modelling team
Blindfaithnogod - Modeller and skinner; second leader
Palissa - skinner
Lord Rahl - Portraits, graphical tidbits, banners
Polski Orzel - Skinning

Coding team
Swampthing - coder,scripter

Other modding
DARTH VADER - Formations

Research team
therussian91 - Slav researcher, faction descriptions, beta tester, Head of the Research team
Arcabagatur - Bulgar research
Kataphraktos - Military researcher
Nickpes - Byzantium researcher
Digenis - Byzantium researcher
Laran - Reseacher, plates and illustrations

Special thanks
============
Atheist Peace - forums and guiding
Dromikaites - coding and guiding
Dimeolas - banners
Shogo - modeller/skinner for creating

If anyone is interested in joining, post in this thread or PM me.

Special thanks to Dimeolas for creating banners for us. Thank you! :bow:

Cheers! ~:cheers:
The Byzantium TW Mod Team

[caesar44]

GOOD LUCK !!!
Bty , Iustinianus (Justinian) was the greatest Byzantine emperor...

[edyzmedieval]

GOOD LUCK !!!
Bty , Iustinianus (Justinian) was the greatest Byzantine emperor...

No. And I'll tell you why. In a topic in the Monastery. The Forge is not the place to discuss history.

Thanks! ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Although BI is a bit away, I want to be prepared for the release of the expansion pack. So, I have started recruiting members.

Any skinner and modeller not working for any mod and also interested in this mod reply to this thread or PM me or King Henry V.

Don't worry, you will have work to do before BI comes out. You shall create help on creating the new units and buldings and will be implemented directly, if the BI files will be the same.

Any skinner and modeller interested in participating?!

[edyzmedieval]

Anyone?!

Oh well. May I have some suggestions from you regarding buldings?!

We have thought until now of Theme Level 1,2,3,4,5 and the Mercenary Recruitment Centre.
Is there any chance of many regional specific buildings?! I mean, for Constantinople, to make more palaces in the city, like it had.

And also, we need historical info about the units. We already thought about the Byzantines and Turks.
We need info about: Bulgars, Cumans, Khazars, Armenians, Papacy, Venetians and Normans

Can anyone provide this info?!

Any modeller, skinner and coder interested, please join.

[King of Atlantis]

Well sounds great, but as a person who is/was a newbie modder, you need to show some solid evidence first. Your concept is wonderful, but not to many people want to join a mod that isnt already on its way(graphics wise). I wish you guys the best of luvk though, this mod soundes great.

[edyzmedieval]

It's for BI, tha't's why it has no graphics yet. But, since nobody wants to join, we are forced to make some Byzantine models.

And thanks. ~:cheers:

[bozkirsovalyesi]

here be new ideas :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=50113

and some informations:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=50854&page=4&pp=30
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=51945




recover A.D. 925 - 1453...
B.İ. periots my recommendations : 925 ..../ 1080 .... / 1205... / 1330...

I know turk factions historys.
but not know english.

I into be turks weapons - titles - names - and other information.
yours what necessary...?

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the help.

Yes indeed, we need help with the Turk history.
We need especially the unit info, and illustrations.

Good news for us and our fans. We found our first modeller and skinner.
Let me introduce you Blindfaithnogod.

He'll do the models and skins for us.
We're looking for other modellers and skinners to help Blindfaithnogod with his work.

[Atheist_Peace]

This looks like a really cool mod, good luck.

[edyzmedieval]

Update.

Our excellent modeller, blindfaithnogod, has made us a unit. Dismounted Kataphraktoi. Here are some pics with it.

https://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8136/screen21kv.jpg

https://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5111/screen46oa.jpg

https://img366.imageshack.us/img366/1777/screen52dh.jpg

https://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2467/screen14eg.jpg

https://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6853/screen32bx.jpg

Hope you like these screens and more are coming up!!!

[Atheist_Peace]

Looking good guys.

[blindfaithnogod]

here are the skoutatoi, enjoy ~:cheers:
https://img271.imageshack.us/img271/5521/skou11vk.jpg
https://img271.imageshack.us/img271/8445/skou25nu.jpg
https://img271.imageshack.us/img271/9199/skou37dg.jpg
https://img271.imageshack.us/img271/6897/skou40vq.jpg
Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (https://imageshack.us)

[edyzmedieval]

Excellent job Blindfaithnogod!!! Thank you very much!!!

Yes indeed Atheist Peace, the mod is running well. I am currently searching for more information about the history and recruiting new members.

Anyone who can help Blindfaithnogod, because of the huge number of units, is welcome to the team. We are in need of skinners, modellers and coders.

Also, we need someone who can help us on creating a new campaign map. A new campaign map is needed, because it''s impossible to use the existing RTW map. We'll see what BI will bring on this matter(campaign map).

[Atheist_Peace]

Again that unit looks good, keep up the nice work you guys.

[blindfaithnogod]

more eye candy, this time some kataphraktoi :balloon2:
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6759/kat12kb.jpg
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1640/kat28dw.jpg
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9195/kat32qk.jpg
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7536/kat43ck.jpg

[Atheist_Peace]

Awesome kataphraktoi, this mod will be very good.

p.s. can you go on msn messenger?

[Kralizec]

Awesome idea!

I already intended to do some reading up on Byzantine history, so maybe I can lend a hand or two when I get around to it.

Are those Kataphractoi "pure" lancers? (they look awesome btw) The way I understood it is that most heavy cavalry were clibanarii, or cataphracts that fought with bow as well as a flexible selection of melee weapons.

I also see some issues with placing the beginning date before Manzikert. Byzantium was extremely powerful back then, possibly the most effective army of all time. It was after Manzikert that the Turkish tribes completely sacked the recruiting grounds for their cavalry in Asia minor that the empire started to decline, IIRC.

[King of Atlantis]

WOW!, Very nice Blind Faith...

[edyzmedieval]

I love you blindfaithnogod!!!! :smitten:

Excellent work.

Now, who wants to join the team?! ~D

[Atheist_Peace]

edyzmedieval, i tried to talk to you on msn about your mod and you just signed off...

[edyzmedieval]

Sorry for that.

Anyways, I'm so happy that this mod is going excellent. I am so happy that people like the mod, and a big thanks to blindfaithnogod.

[Atheist_Peace]

Byzantium TW's new official forum is here: http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx

Great to have you guys on board. ~:)

[edyzmedieval]

Awesome idea!

I already intended to do some reading up on Byzantine history, so maybe I can lend a hand or two when I get around to it.

Are those Kataphractoi "pure" lancers? (they look awesome btw) The way I understood it is that most heavy cavalry were clibanarii, or cataphracts that fought with bow as well as a flexible selection of melee weapons.

I also see some issues with placing the beginning date before Manzikert. Byzantium was extremely powerful back then, possibly the most effective army of all time. It was after Manzikert that the Turkish tribes completely sacked the recruiting grounds for their cavalry in Asia minor that the empire started to decline, IIRC.

Strijder,

Kataphraktoi are only lancers.
Klibanophoroi are Kataphraktoi with bows and swords.

[blindfaithnogod]

thanks for the kind words guys, im working on an infantry unit right now. hopefully it wont be to much longer and i can show you guys some more of my work.

[edyzmedieval]

Guys,

Check our forum. I have updated everything, and our main work is there. Information, screenshots and other stuff.....
Thanks again to the Imperium TW team for hosting us.

We will be updating on this thread when we can, but we will not leave the Guild, because it has the tutorials, to help us make this mod.

Here's the link:
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=40

[Rosacrux redux]

Strijder,

Kataphraktoi are only lancers.
Klibanophoroi are Kataphraktoi with bows and swords.

Awesome models blindfaith, - I like the kataphraktoi and the skutatoi very much.

But edyzmedieval, you got it the other way around. Klivanophoroi* (or - in the Roman term - Klibanarii and the hellenized equal Klivanarii) are the ultra-heavy all-armoured kondos-weilding shock cavalry and kataphraktoi are - at least in most occassions - the armored bow-lance-sword or mace all-arounders of the Byzantine army.

The confusion is of course very common, since kataphraktoi means excactly "all armoured" (or "all sealed", more precisely), so one'd expect them to be the ultra-heavies, but that's not the case. There is a great confusion with the Byzantine armies all over the ages, especially because they faired for so many years (words mean something today, another thing tommorow, a different thing 300 years later) and also they preserved many roman names (most of them hellenized, like Klivanarii, Skutatoi, Foideratoi etc.) in their military terminology and also had the corresponding Greek names and it all ends up in quite a messy situation.

Actually, both terms were never used to describe a particular military unit or even warrior type in most occassions. They were known mostly as tagmatic, thematic, scholae, vukelarii, in the later periods stratiotes etc. etc. More than one "type" of cavalry was employed under each of those terms - as I said, very confusing.

But, if you need help with the creation of the byzantine units, just say so. By help I don't mean anything in the graphical-modelling department, you are doing a formidable job there is nothing I can do to help you - I am a history buff and Byzantium buff for that, so that's what I can to help you.

*An explaination on the term: Klivanophoroi means "those who wear the klivanion". Klivanion was the heavy lameral shirt they wore. I am still not getting the connection between klivanion and klivanos (oven, in the later Greek dialects) but there must be something there.

[edyzmedieval]

Rosacrux,

You're welcome to the team. Go to our forum, and you will find topics that we need historical help on.

Klibanophoroi were the ultra-armoured-very powerful- heavy cavalry, and the Kataphraktoi were their less powerful brothers.

Kataphraktoi used swords, lances, maces... Klibanophoroi used all of them, plus bows.

Anyway, it's not the place to discuss this. Our forum is the best place for history and modding.

[Advo-san]

Out of topic but what the heck...:
1) Klibano-phoroi: Klibanos=in modern greek, the oven. In medieval greek, a sealed iron box. Phoroi=plur. of -phoros, in greek, the wearer. So Klibanophoroi, the ones that wear iron boxes, the iron-plated dudes.
2) Kata-phraktoi: Kata= Total, phraktos= Fortified. So Kataphractoi, the dudes that are fully, totally fortiried.

[edyzmedieval]

Ok Advo-san.

How's about coming to our forum to discuss this?!

Update: We have done some research, and blindfaithnogod is making some more eye candy. Epirote Greek Soldier and Cuman mercenary.

[edyzmedieval]

We made some updates.

The faction list has been edited very much, so now we're gonna have the Novgorod and the Kingdom of Kiev included.

Blindfaithnogod has made us a new unit, Epirote Greek soldiers. The Cuman mercenaries are on their way.

Historical help is on the way, so until now, it's looking good.

[LeftEyeNine]

edzy,

I could not make sure if you got my e-mail to your PM since I sent it by the link of the forum not directly.

I am off my summer courses and would be pleased to help you as much as possible.

[King of Atlantis]

I believe Edward has gone on vacation, so i recomend contacting King Henry V.

[LeftEyeNine]

He had contacted two days ago.. He's on a vacation then, huh ?

Well, if we're in no hurry, I guess I may wait for him coming back..

[King of Atlantis]

Yeah, atleast thats what he said yesterday. It looks like progress will still continue..

Not sure if you have yet, but join the forums..

http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx (http://)

BTW, im not on the team, just an admin at the site BTW is hosted at..

[LeftEyeNine]

the link is invalid.

[King of Atlantis]

LINK (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx)

sorry about that..

[blindfaithnogod]

go here (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=40) to find some screenshots and the rest of our forum. there are several units screenies... ~;)

[LeftEyeNine]

Ok, I just registered..

[Shaun]

this mod is very like chivalry total war.

[blindfaithnogod]

its similar, yet our focus is more on the near east.
more screens (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=40)

[hoggy]

Looking excellent Blindfaith. My favouriters are the Cuman warriors, looking forward to playing this mod.

[blindfaithnogod]

i'm quite happy with them aswell. the more i do this the better my textures and models seem to become. also the faster i get. i love the creativity it alows me to express.
for those of you who havent checked out our forums, take the link in my sig, to see some nice new screens.

[edyzmedieval]

Back!!!!!

Well well well.

I'm glad to see that the mod is going excellent. I come with good info about the Bulgar Kingdom. ~D

[edyzmedieval]

Some updates. We have many new screenshots, to those who haven't visited our forum.

Trebizond Archers

https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7251/trebizond5xf.jpg

https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/409/trebizond22tw.jpg

https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5453/trebizond38zh.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

Here are some other screens. My favourite:

Cuman Mercenaries

https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/358/cuman6yd.jpg

https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5060/cuman21bf.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

Here are some more screenshots. I love these guys because of their colour:

Cuman Warriors

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6015/cumanbow7sf.jpg

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3343/cumanbow25hv.jpg

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7983/cumanbow31mz.jpg

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5888/cumanwar6yb.jpg

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3343/cumanwar21uy.jpg

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4038/cumanwar35kt.jpg

[Radier]

Cool! Keep up the good work. ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks Radier. We are working...

Blindfaithnogod is doing some excellent units.

[caesar44]

Looking very good , edyz'

[edyzmedieval]

Here are some more screens, this time with:

Byzantine officers

https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3973/byzantineoff9nr.jpg

https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3055/byzantineoff22px.jpg

https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3268/byzantineoff33fh.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

More screens.

Turkish Mercenaries

https://img318.imageshack.us/img318/7267/turkishmerc6cw.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]https://img318.imageshack.us/img318/7184/turkishmerc23kd.jpg

https://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2928/turkishmerc35qv.jpg

We also have some more screeenshots, but not to spoil the surprise, we invite you to visit our forum.

Also, a small note: the Trebizond Archers will we reworked, to have a more specific look. ~:)

[Delenda est Carthago]

i am doing my best to try to alter the code for some of the dmo units, but i am running into difficulties cos i cant find the export_descr_unit file...

This has me worried that the expo uses a different system, which would be a pain. Does anyone know if Caligula will run for Bi, or will they bring out a new version, cos it makes things much eaiser for me when trying to code masses of new units......

I played around just now with adding different mounts to different types of cav.....

Praetorian cav riding cataphract horses look damn cool!!!

[edyzmedieval]

Delenda,

Wait for the full version. The demo doesn't help us at all.

BI has many new things, that's why I chose to do it for BI.

[edyzmedieval]

Here are some more screens.

Reworked Trebizond Archers

https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1022/treb6by.jpg

https://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9096/treb22fn.jpg

Feudal Foot Knights(still work in progress on the skins)

https://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8995/feudelfoot45hp.jpg

https://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6618/feudelfoot4vv.jpg

https://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9945/feudelfoot32ny.jpg

https://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1059/feudelfoot24rt.jpg

[Radier]

Excellent work! ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks.

We still need modellers, and still searching. Looks like we got one more to help blindfaith. :)

[SkyElf]

Great Pic's by Blindfaithnogod!!! ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

More screenshots!!! ~:cheers:

Slav Javelinmen

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4906/slavjav8zs.jpg

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1310/slavjav21oa.jpg[

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1456/slavjav34ol.jpg

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7052/slavjav42jc.jpg


Feudal Foot Knights reworked skin

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5010/feudelfoot21xz.jpg

https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1036/feudelfoot4sv.jpg

[Radier]

Again, excellent. You work fast blindfaith. ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks.

I've just started a series of info topics about the mod. Here are the first 2 topics.

Promotion status

I promoted to 6 forums: .Org, Total War Center, Total War .Com, Strategic Command Center, Total Rome and RTR forums.

The following advantages we gained(not very much unfortunately):

Stickied at TWC
Almost got a private forum at SCC(have to talk to Amirsan)
Private forum at Imperium TW(thanks AP!)

Plus, our topics are "hot" topics, because of many replies.

Just to keep everyone informed of my moves.

Any suggestions, don't hesitate to post them.

Unit Costs

I was just reading the EB forum, and I reminded of one thing.

Well, in Byzantium TW, the aim of it is to create a very historically accurate mod about the Byzantine Empire. For that, one important thing, unit costs.

The unit costs won't be balanced, because the Byzantines had some regular troops, but they had many elites. So, the cost of elites will be extremely high( the Varangian Guards, Klibanphoroi....). I am doing this, because this was the history, and creating stacks and stacks of super elite units without cheating is very hard. It reflects the history.


More info will be coming soon. Just updated the front page topic. ~:)

[edyzmedieval]

You guyz will like this.

Khazar Royal Cavalryman(still work-in-progress)

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4169/khazarcav38fg.jpg

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7127/khazarcav27ed.jpg

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5060/khazarcav9tj.jpg

People, please post your opinions regarding the mod!!!!!!!
Please!!! :help:

[King of Atlantis]

Well, I always post at Imperium, but ill say it hear.


Good Job! ~:cheers:

[SkyElf]

Looking at the pic's make we wish the MOD was all ready done! ~:cheers: Great work keep it up. ~:)

[Byzantine Mercenary]

this is just the mod ive hoped for, good luck with it,

[edyzmedieval]

Your username suggests it. ~:)

Here are some more screens. ~:)

Reworked Khazar Royal Cavalry

https://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7750/khazarhorse29cp.jpg

https://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2521/khazarhorse7yg.jpg

Reworked Kataphraktoi horses

https://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8281/kathorse7we.jpg

https://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4862/kathorse21rx.jpg

People,
What do you think of our mod?! We need opinions, especially on our forum.
Please join our forum. ~:)

http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=SF&f=40

Thanks,
Edyzmedieval
Byzantium TW Leader

[Delenda est Carthago]

Lookin good. I will repeat my offer here: If you want to shwo some of the units running on massive detail settings (with really high antialiasing etc) then you could send them to me. I have a powerful comp, so if you want to show them looking at their ultimate best (they look amazing anyway - well done to blindfaithnogod for that!) then feel free to send the files!

[edyzmedieval]

Good idea. ~:)

I'll ask blindfaith, to see if he's ok with this.

[hellas1]

Howdy everyone,

I have some historical input to give:

Don't forget the Seljuk Turks were in Asia Minor and then dispossessed by the Ottoman Turks due to the Mongols pushing west!

In the Byzantine Empire, Orthodoxy was the staple religion. The church and state were essentially but not totally absolutely ONE! Don't forget!
There were and are 5 patriarchs,ex. Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria and another I don't remember. These areas should be addressed!
No pope, cardinals or anything like that in orthodoxy.
Rather there were/are monks, priests, deacons, bishops.

The venetians and other european powers then came in and took control of certain parts of mainland greece and Asia Minor.
The venetians fought with the Ottoman turks for naval control of the mediterranean (Battle of Lepanto) I believe. So there was this constant tension as well!

One last thing, remember in the 8th or 9th century, 9th I believe, that Cyril and Methodius, missionaries from Byzantium, evangelized the Slavs of Russia, making them Russian Orthodox and since that time, Russia and Byzantium and now modern day Greece still relate and are on good terms! Don't forget the Russians!

Just my insights for any and everyone, Va Zisi H Ellas (Long live Greece!)
~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Hey Hellas. Good to see a fellow Greek posting on our thread.

Thanks for the info. Might prove useful. ~:cheers:

We are working on the mod, and it's going good. ~:)

[hellas1]

Dear Edyz,

Yia Sou! May BTW be THE best mod for RTW.
It would follow our great traditions and history as well.

P.S. You can't keep the Greek people down bro!

Virgil- Captive Greece has taken Rome captive.

Na Zisi H Ellas!

Any help from me, any time!

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks man. Hopefully I won't let you down.

The new units should come out soon. ~:)
We have the Saracen Infantry made, but it needs to be reworked.
The Varangian Guards are in the making.

[edyzmedieval]

Small update. This is a small preview about our campaign map, which I'm working on. Remember, this is provisional. The campaign map which I'm presenting you right will be fully edited. This is just to give you a glimpse of the area we are gonna work on. ~:)

https://img351.imageshack.us/img351/5448/mapregions2eo.th.jpg

Hope you like it.

We are still recruiting modders, especially skinners and modellers. We need coders also. If you are interested, come to our forum, and leave me a PM. ~:)

http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=40

Thanks,
Edyzmedieval
Byzantium TW Leader

[Byzantine Mercenary]

that map looks good, if your gonna use a smaller map, why not add more regions, it would be more historically accurate, after all, the town sizes are a bit mucked up in vannilla, there were shorely loads more significant towns or maybee even villages in the region that you guys could represent.

[edyzmedieval]

Well, we are going to have many provinces to reflect the reality.

The Byzantines had a very complex defensive system, with many fortresses. And the map might be extended, who knows.

Before that, I need to find a way to correctly edit the tga's, apart from map_rregions.tga

[Byzantine Mercenary]

try one of the modding areas in the forum, theres a tutorial on how to do changes to regions

[Atheist_Peace]

No, he wants help editing the other tga's besides regions. I think there is a tutorial around here for editing everything in a map, "Making a new campaign map..." its called. Try that ed.

[edyzmedieval]

I tried it. I have it printed. I used it very much for my work. Very useful.

Though it doesn't offer much info about the edit of the other tga's....

[Seleukos]

Hi from Greece,
great idea the Byzantium TW-and awsome work the units .
I want to help as a researcher,i think i know much about Byzantine history-where can i send u info and what exactly u want?

You forgot the serbians! and also u could include sklaviniai (small groups of slavs inside byzantine bordes-something like rebels) or albanians and vlachs or petzenegs.Empire of Trapezounta ? (Trebzon)
i know there are only 19 factions ~:) but I think for example including Poles goes a bit far -they never involved in byzantine history.

anyway,its a great idea,and u ve done great so far!

[edyzmedieval]

Come on.

Let's clarify this.
We have Poland because:
1.)We have Genoa and Venice....So, we have to have HRE, because they're on the same meridian...
2.)We have Kiev and Khazar.... So, we need to have Poland...Same meridian and same parallel...

Plus, the Byz had some very small contigents of Poles in their army....

So, no more questions regarding this please....

Yeah, the Serbs could be included. We have to think.
Trapezunt and Albania are too small to be major factions....

Plus, our first update is coming up!!!! ~:cheers:

[Seleukos]

ok ok,i dont have anything against Poles!
After all i recently had a girl from poland ~D

(but Trebzon no and yes to Moldavia(?)-they were Rhomaioi too-and their Emperors.the Great Komnenoi were the true children of Komnenoi dynasty!)

oK,the mod is great anyway!!!
keep on!!

[al'Callaendor]

good, it is for when?

[edyzmedieval]

We've just started. So, can't specify a date.

@Seleukos

Sorry to dissapoint you, but the Moldavians and Wallachians had more contacts than the Trebizondians. They were a small greek state, but were destroyed easily by the Ottomans.

Plus, the Moldavians and Wallachians were even mercenaries in large numbers in the Byzantine army.

[Seleukos]

Easily destroyed by the Turks?

Empire of Tapezounta :1203-1461
Trebzon fell after Constantinopolis.
It was not so small-spread from time to time to all the northern cost of Anatolia.
Involved in war at the early 13th cent with Nicea,and defeated in a great Battle,but still struggling to take Constantinoupolis back from the Latins.
making alliance with other nations ,like Mongols,involving in the conflict of Venice and Genoa.
Had its symbol the one -head Eagle.
Its own greek dialect,similar to ancient greek,the only dialect that survives in modern greek (Pontiac dialect).
So,it was not isolated at all,and played an important role in Byzantine history,-in fact it was A PART of the Byzantine history.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

they were more than just part of it, by the end they were about the only allies the Byzantines had left (apart from the genoese)

[edyzmedieval]

The Trapezunt Empire is too small to be included...

And they resisted long because:
1.)Constant turmoil between the Seldjuk's, Mongols....
2.)Incompetent commanders of their enemies
3.)Their capital was up in the mountains....

Anyways, the Trapezunt Empire is too small. I also excluded the Despotate of Moreea and Epirus because of the same thing.

Maybe we will have a place for them. :)
The Niceean Era campaign will include them. ~:)

[hellas1]

Hi everyone,
No need to argue. The facts are facts.

Here we go, Hellenes disputing things. It shouldn't be.
Each group/empire:
the trapezountes
Despotate of Epirus-Ali Pasha
Vlachoi-Greeks with Roman blood lines, kai ta loipa....
Komnenoi, Paleologoi, All 5 Patriarchies and their Sees,etc.
should ALL be included.

After all, we are Hellenes aren't we? Firstly, OUR chance to show our stuff.
If I knew how to mod, don't you think that I would jump in on that end?
I don't though, so I contribute in other ways, mostly historical, if need be in the future, financial. I'm poor, (part time student now, on my last class which is my business admin. capstone-it's tough).
This is a SUPERB mod, and ANY help I can give is NEVER A PROBLEM and my priviledge.
That's how all our attitudes should be, re paidia.

Na Exetai Yia. Antio.
Stefanos.

[edyzmedieval]

Hellas,

Sorry to dissapoint you. But we cannot include all of the factions.
The game has faction limits. We include the largest and most powerful factions.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Hopefully BI will boost the faction limit a bit

[Meneldil]

It doesn't

[edyzmedieval]

Meneldil is right...

It doesn't. :embarassed:

Good news, our first update is ready. ~D ~:cheers:

[hellas1]

Dear Edyz,

I do agree with what you say.
Besides, you did mention that they would be in some campaign or rather! ;)
What an odd geographic placement & time it must have been for our relatives!

P.S.
Have you experienced this?:
I have BI on a 2.4 ghz, 512 mb ram, 128mb ram nvidia card and the game lags!
Why? I thought my specs were enough?

Can you help me with this?
If this doesn't get rectified, Byzantium won't work either! That's why I ask.

Se efharisto, para poli.

Long Live Greece! Long Live Byzantium Total War! ~:cheers:

[Byzantine Mercenary]

My PC has almost the same specks but works fine with rome RTR 5.4 and the barbarian invasion demo, maybee you need to lower the graphics settings

[Csatadi]

Hungary
======
In 976 Hungary is a principality but a kingdom from 1000. Maybe the Hungary name will be the best.

The nomad Magyars lived in tents called jurta, plural jurták. This is important to all the 'buildings'. I suggest some of the starting buildings should be tents, but the upgrades must be buildings.

Christian, Orthodox and pagan temples can be built giving the player the chance to choose. In the 11th century there were pagan revolts, therefore there were pagan people.
I suggest Level 3 Catholic temple is needed to build the 4th level palace and 4th level Catholic temple to 5th level palace. Therefore the player has some motivation to choose the western Christianity which was the historical way.

The pagan shrines are:
- Shrine to Úristen (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Úristen (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Úristen (+30 happiness, requires city).
Note: the old god were called later 'the god of the Magyars'. We don't know any personal name to Him, maybe He hadn't any.
- Shrine to Boldogasszony (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Boldogasszony (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Boldogasszony (+30 happiness, requires city).
Note: Úristen means word by word 'Godlord', Boldogasszony means 'Happywoman'. We have only traces of the old religion.
If you use the RTW type shrines Úristen should be a law-type god, and Boldogasszony a fertility or mother type goddess with public health bonus.
Note: Ancillary (priests to both): Táltos (+1 influence, +1 public health).

- Forest clearings 5 levels
- Paths, Mud roads
Note: does they mean the basic roads? I suggest level 1 roads. In the middle ages there were very bad roads in Europe.
- Trader (+20% trade), Market (+40% trade), Merchant (+60% trade)
- Port, Shipyard
- Blacksmith (+1 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Master blacksmith (+2 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Armorer (+1 to all armor, will NOT require blacksmith in order to be constructed), Master armorer (+2 to all armor)
- Salt mine (+1 mining), Large salt mine (+2 mining), Copper mine (+2 mining), Large copper mine (+4 mining), Silver mine (+3 mining), Large silver mine (+6 mining), Gold mine (+4 mining), Large gold mine (+8 mining). All mines require their respective resources in the province in order to be possible to build.
[Transylvania had rich salt and gold mines but I suppose you learnt about it in your school…]
- Proper sewage (+10% health bonus), Herbal medicine (+15% health bonus).
NOTE: these buildings are not typical medieval ones, but if other factions can build them, also the Magyars must be able too.
- all type of walls
- Practise target [may called also Bowmaker] (+1 missile weapon xp), Archery range (+2 missile weapon xp), Masters of Archery (+3 missile weapon xp)
Note: I put here the 3rd level. It does not need Bowmaker.
NOTE: These buildings are used in Vikings and F.
- Muster field (something town watch, peasants)
- Stables Magyar warriors {Magyar vitézek} [light horse archers, reflex bow, no armor, spontoon {fokos}, fast, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary], Lancemen {Kopjások} [medium cavalry, SWORD, reflex bow, lance, shield], Chosen Magyar Warriors {Válogatott magyar vitézek} [SWORD and bow, very-very good leather armour, elite, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary].
Knights {Lovagok}: western –Saxon- type knight unit. They should be cost 20% more or less in numbers than their reasonable value and +1 turn recruiting time.
NOTE: I don't see any reason separate the Magyar, Kabar and Székely horse archers. In the text of the Warriors can be written to mention their nations.

- Cavalry training field (+1 to cavalry xp, requires Stables), Cavalry training grounds (+2 to cavalry xp, requires Cavalry stables)
NOTE: These buildings are used in Vikings and F.
- Siege engineer

and other general European things.
No university!

Symbolizing the Magyars who remain in the eastern Steppes there can be Magyar rebels.

See also: Hungarian history 1038-1301
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01955/html/

Hungarian prehistory from the beginnings to king St. Stephen (1038)
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/

This is the oldest banner we know. But in the earliest version there wasn't a base under the cross. This isn't historically correct yet but I don't know better.
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/index139.html

The chronicles say Saint Stephen went to battle under the banner of St. George and St. Martin. Maybe a warrior on flag?
But in the age of Géza (historically Gyejcsa, or Gyeücsa or Geisza or Décsa :-), ruler to 997) there wasn't any flag very likely.
There is a fiction with a turul (a kind of falcon) on red background, which is surely just a dim idea.

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks very much Csatadi!!!

The information is very useful. Thanks.
We have begun work on the other tech trees. ~:)

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

I think,there must be albanians as mercenary unit and as a regular unit at the service of Despotate of Epirus.
They can also be hired as mercenaries by Venice and Genoa and by whoever has the regions of modern-day Albania..

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

[QUOTE=Csatadi]Hungary
======
In 976 Hungary is a principality but a kingdom from 1000. Maybe the Hungary name will be the best....

- Stables Magyar warriors {Magyar vitézek} [light horse archers, reflex bow, no armor, spontoon {fokos}, fast, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary], Lancemen {Kopjások} [medium cavalry, SWORD, reflex bow, lance, shield], Chosen Magyar Warriors {Válogatott magyar vitézek} [SWORD and bow, very-very good leather armour, elite, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary].
Knights {Lovagok}: western –Saxon- type knight unit. They should be cost 20% more or less in numbers than their reasonable value and +1 turn recruiting time.
NOTE: I don't see any reason separate the Magyar, Kabar and Székely horse archers. In the text of the Warriors can be written to mention their nations.

Are the Szekely not the descendants of the Huns and the Avars?I 've read that they inhabited the region of Transylvania after being expelled from Pannonia by the Carolingian army?~:confused:

[Csatadi]

Are the Szekely not the descendants of the Huns and the Avars?I 've read that they inhabited the region of Transylvania after being expelled from Pannonia by the Carolingian army?~:confused:
The reality is we don't know the origin of the Székely people. Maybe they were Bulgarians (eskils), or other turk tribe e.g. khabar. Who knows it exactly nowadays? The Hun heritage is a popular idea, and some people think the whole Magyar nation are from the Huns. Interesting idea. But there isn't anybody who really knows the reality. These theories are only fictions.

Be aware Huns and Avars were different people!

The Székelys guarded the borders in Transylvania and the western countryside. They spoke and speak Magyar and there isn't any trace of other language. It doesn't mean they spoke Magyar all the time.
Their military units were light cavalry but almost the entire Magyar army was light cavalry with the same weapons.

[edyzmedieval]

Good info. ~:)

Also, the tech tree for the Byzantines is done. ~:)
Will post it tommorrow. ~:)

[blindfaithnogod]

a quick look a couple of the unit rosters

Early
Byzantines
Infantry
Phylakes(urban militia)
large shield and spear
Evzones guardsmen
?
Skoutatoi
spear, kite shield, chainmail
Epirote Infantry
spear, kite shield, chainmail(similar to skoutatoi, only available in epirus)
Kontaratoi
pike, kite shield, chainmail
Paramonai
sword, kite shield, helmet and little else
Menevlatoi
long spear or polearm, small round shield, chainmail
Dismounted Kataphraktoi
sword, kite shield, chainmail and scale armour
Varangian Guard
double handed axe, round shield, chainmail
Skirmishers
Psiloi
slings
Psiloi toxotai
bow, sword and light armour
Peltastoi
shield, javelins, sword
Peltastoi Enoplioi
shield, javelins, sword(heavier javelineer)
Mourtatoi
bow, sword, chainmail
Cavalry
Trapezountioi
horse archers from trebizond
Latinikon Tagmata
frankish knights
Hippeis Toxotai
horse archers
Stratiotai
?
Kataphraktoi
bow, chainmail, sword, full horse barding
Athanatoi
lance, chainmail and small shield
Klibanophoroi
lance, sword, small shield, chainmail, full horse barding
Tagmata Klibanophoroi
heavier more skilled Klibanophoroi
Tagmata Kataphraktoi
heavier more skilled Kataphraktoi

Bulgars
Infantry
Urban militia
?
Slav spearmen
spear and shield and little else
Slav swordsmen
sword and shield and little else
Bulgar Spearmen
spear, round shield, chainmail
Bulgar Swordsmen
sword, round shield, chainmail
Bulgar Pagan Infantry
sabre, round shield, chainmail
Chimnnik
hook, sword, kite shield(like western foot knights)chainmail and scale
Skirmishers
Slav bowmen
very basic acher, bow and short sword
Slav javelinmen
javelins, short sword, and shield
Bulgar Archers
bow and sword chainmail
Bulgar Elite Archers
bow and sword chainmail and scale
Cavalry
Zera
basically mounted archers with chain mail and a sword
Bulgar Light cavalry
armed with chain mail, lance and sword
Bagatur
scale armour and chainmail, javelin and axe, hopefully we can make these throw their spear before charging. some horse barding
Bulgar Boyar
mounted archer, armed with scale and chainmail, sword and bow. some horse barding

Holy Roman Empire
Infantry
Feudel men at arms
chain mail, shield and sword
Swabian swordsmen
2 handed sword and chain mail
Feudel foot knights
chain mail, shield and sword
Spearmen
spear and shield, no armour
Feudel sergents
spear and sheild, light armour
Militia Sergents
polearm and good armour
Skirmishers
Thuringian Archers
powerful archers, bow and sword
Archers
bow and dagger
Paviese Crossbow
just add a shield
Crossbows
crossbow and dagger
Cavalry
Royal knights
lance and shield, heavy armour
Mounted crossbows
the name says it all
mounted sergents
ance and shield, light armour

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks blindfaith.

Here's some good news:
The faction list has been completely changed. Check page 1. ~:)

We are waiting your suggestions. ~:)

[hellas1]

Hi again folks,

I commend any and everyone working on this mod, everything I've seen is beautiful and kick butt too.

It's good to see the changes in the factions. They reflect more of what was happening at those specific time periods.

Here is some historical food for thought everyone to "play" with:
Phanariotes were a kind of freedom fighter per se. So, perhaps a plus in their strenth, zeal and stamina should be added.

The seljuk turks were driven out by the ottomans and of course the byzantines "worked" on them too around what, 10th or 11th century? Eventually eliminating them. They got crunched from both ends!
That should be reflected in game, when blurbs come up as an ex. "Celtic faction has been destroyed/eliminated".

The byzantine emperors were very much influence by the 5 patriarchies I mentioned earlier. I hope the mod reflects this. Perhaps this can be a type of sub-senate per se?

Lastly friends, I was thinking about Naptha, Siege weapons like the trebuchet, yes the byzantines used it, and called it the "triboutseto" and giant ballista, etc. The byzantines from my research did use these, but not the trebuchet so much.

Just things to mentally munch on, all!
No Disrespect or Belittling meant to ANYONE!

Long Live BTW! Long Live Greece!

[Seleukos]

Hellas1 ! my Greek friend from US.
Phanariotes were not fighters-they were an elite of scholars,who lived in Constantinopolis and came out after the 16th -17th century.
The seljucs were weakened much after they defeat by the mongols (koesedag 1242),not the ottomans.

Finally i dont think the Patriarchate could be a senate-the Emperor was responisble for all political acts and for war and peace.

Anyway,its good reading Greek history! :book:

[edyzmedieval]

Hey guys. ~:)

Work is going great. New units, and new research. ~:)
The Phanariotes were in the 17th century, in Romania. They were the rulers of Romania, imposed by the Ottoman Empire.

The Seldjuk's will eventually dissapear in 1328.
They will be replaced by the Ottoman Empire.

[Csatadi]

Instead of ’something town watch’ I wrote earlier I suggest this to Hungary:
Várőrség (Castle guards) - they can have spears, shields and leather armour. Low stats, they are only for town watch not for fight. The Magyar army was cavalry.

I suggested swords to the Magyar vitézek, but nobody will know if they get sabres. ~D This way you can use the AOVAF models easily.

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

a quick look a couple of the unit rosters

Early
Byzantines
Infantry
Cavalry
Trapezeountae
horse archers from trebizond
Latinikon Tagmata
frankish knights
Hippeis Toxotai
horse archers
Stratiotai
?
Kataphraktoi
bow, chainmail, sword, full horse barding
Athanatoi
lance, chainmail and small shield
Klibanophoroi
lance, sword, small shield, chainmail, full horse barding
Tagmata Klibanophoroi
heavier more skilled Klibanophoroi
Tagmata Kataphraktoi
heavier more skilled Kataphraktoi




There should also exist the Akritai,light cavalry that can be dismounted,armoured with swords,bows and maces(mace=apelatikion).These people were farmer-soldiers(yeomen) that guarded the eastern borders of Byzantium(like the limitanei in the earlier uears of Eastern Roman history).

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the suggestion.
We'll take it into account. ~:)

@Csatadi

We'll use AOVAF models. We have an alliance with them. ~:cheers:

[hellas1]

Hi all,

Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!
OWWWWWWWWW!
I'm happy for everyone.

I try to be historically correct and am not proud enough to be corrected!

Major Siege weapons: Great crossbows, Trebuchets, Mangonels, Siege towers, Naptha?

My ideas of the stratoiotes should be a type of intermediate infantry fighter or fighter/archer infantryman in other words.
I see a great many "heavy" units.

Some little nibbles to chew on all:
What about more mercs, ex. Venetians? the evzones, from my understanding, were an elite fighting group and maybe should be catered stat-wise as such.

Edyz, will dynastic reigns be implemented or merely the "Eras' per se? Ex. Paleologoi, Komnenoi, Romanoi, etc vs. Early, High, etc periodsor will the eras include the dynastic reigns? Only thinking out loud.

Long live O Basileus, Long live all the contributors to this mod! Long Live BTW!
Without Ellas & what it gave, would there be a Rome?

[Csatadi]

@Csatadi

We'll use AOVAF models. We have an alliance with them. ~:cheers:
Yes, I know.
But you must use also knight units which are not in the time of Vikings.
And the slav warriors I suggested there are not suitable to this era. Maybe they are historically uncorrect also in 843 but also there must be some infantry guard unit.
In Vikings Magyars are a Steppen culture but in your mod Hungary is between paganism and Christianism. And probably Christianity will win.

[edyzmedieval]

I try to be historically correct and am not proud enough to be corrected!

Major Siege weapons: Great crossbows, Trebuchets, Mangonels, Siege towers, Naptha?

Some little nibbles to chew on all:
What about more mercs, ex. Venetians? the evzones, from my understanding, were an elite fighting group and maybe should be catered stat-wise as such.

Edyz, will dynastic reigns be implemented or merely the "Eras' per se? Ex. Paleologoi, Komnenoi, Romanoi, etc vs. Early, High, etc periodsor will the eras include the dynastic reigns? Only thinking out loud.



I am thinking on the siege engines. I am doing the tech trees and some other things like campmap and basic coding....
So, I am thinking what to include.

Hellas, your idea is excellent, with the dynasties. If the team accepts it, then we will have dynasties. ~:)

I will bring on a list of mercs. We have it made over at the Imperium forum.

@Csatadi
I'll post the Hungarian tech tree, and we'll see what we haven't got it right. ~:)

Thanks!!!

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

Be aware Huns and Avars were different people!

The Székelys guarded the borders in Transylvania and the western countryside. They spoke and speak Magyar and there isn't any trace of other language. It doesn't mean they spoke Magyar all the time.
Their military units were light cavalry but almost the entire Magyar army was light cavalry with the same weapons.

Csatadi,thank you for the historical information.I knew that the Szekelys are closely related to the Magyar nation,I did not know however that they speak only Magyar.I thought that they speak some other language.:bow:

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

Hellas, your idea is excellent, with the dynasties. If the team accepts it, then we will have dynasties. ~:)



This idea is very good.

In the Byzantine Empire there were several families like the Komnenoi,Angeloi,Focas,Dalassenoi,Dukes that formed the military aristocracy.They had great estates in the eastern Asia Minor and for centuries they gave great men to the empire.Their extermination by the Seljouk Turks marked the start of the end for the Empire.The Empire not only lost the rich and productive lands of Asia Minor but also lost the families that had given ledendary commanders and skillfull diplomats in the past.
I suggest that there are families in the game contesting for power,just like in RTW.I also suggest that there are women emperors.This means that when there are no male successors to the throne,but ther are daughters,then there should be an Empress,like Irene the Athenian,Theofano,Anna Komnene etc.
Also when one dynasty is wiped out of the game should not end but there should be a civil war and the player must be asked to support one of the generals.

[edyzmedieval]

This idea is very good.

Also when one dynasty is wiped out of the game should not end but there should be a civil war and the player must be asked to support one of the generals.

There's another good idea. ~D

I'll discuss with the team, along with the progress. ~:)
But, we'll have to do some real coding to find out if it works....

[kataphraktoi]

Questions:
Will all Tagmatic Divisions included in the unit list like the Scholae, Excubitores, Numeri, the Hetaireia, etc, etc, etc?

Other additional tagmatic groups *but possibly redundant by 976)
Ikanatoi (Hicanati) - elite cavalry
Immortals - under Ioannis Tzshemeshagh
Ethiopian regiment - Negro bodyguards

Other groups of soldiers that settled in empire and possibly still existing in 976:
Persian Tagmata - descendants of Khurramite heretics who converted to Christianity and settled aorund Paphlagonia and later dispersed around the empire.
Banu Habib - Arab tribes who converted to Christianity recently

Other lesser known and possibly redundant mercenary elite regiments include:
Maglavites (Mahgribi Western Muslim cavalry)
Pharganoi (Slaves bought from the Ferghana region)

Another interesting unit during the Comnenan period:
A small English regiment that survived Hastings were given a commission by Alexius to settle the ravaged region of modern day Dobrudja in ROmania.

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks Kataphraktoi. ~:cheers:

Never heard of them though, have to research some more to confirm your sources....

As for the Tagmatic, yeah. It's a problem with this. We need to find more guys for the Tagmatic feature. :book:

Thanks anyways. ~:cheers:

And some news.
We are preparing the second update. So far, 6 new units have been made, and some small work regarding the campmap.

~:cheers:

[kataphraktoi]

Hicanati
Ethiopian regiment
Maghlavites

in Osprey Byzantine armies 886-1118

Immortals
Pharganoi
Banu Habib

in John Julius Norwich's trilogy - particularly in the Apogee

Persian Tagmata (not the same as the Tagmata of the capital but Tagmata as in a body of troops/division)

in Treadgold's Byzantine State and Society

Another thing I was wondering about: will there be Solenarions? initially I mistook it for crossbows but they are heavy darts used by foot archers.

[Seleukos]

will there be Solenarions? initially I mistook it for crossbows but they are heavy darts used by foot archers.

Solenas (pron .solinas) in greek means tube. So they should fire darts with a blowtube or something like that.~:handball:

[Seleukos]

a quick look a couple of the unit rosters

Early
Byzantines
Infantry
Phylakes(urban militia)
large shield and spear
Evzones guardsmen
?
Skoutatoi
spear, kite shield, chainmail
Epirote Infantry
spear, kite shield, chainmail(similar to skoutatoi, only available in epirus)
Kontaratoi
pike, kite shield, chainmail
Paramonai
sword, kite shield, helmet and little else
Menevlatoi
long spear or polearm, small round shield, chainmail
Dismounted Kataphraktoi
sword, kite shield, chainmail and scale armour
Varangian Guard
double handed axe, round shield, chainmail

Trapezeountae
horse archers from trebizond
Latinikon Tagmata
frankish knights
Hippeis Toxotai
horse archers
Stratiotai
?
Kataphraktoi
bow, chainmail, sword, full horse barding
Athanatoi
lance, chainmail and small shield
Klibanophoroi
lance, sword, small shield, chainmail, full horse barding
Tagmata Klibanophoroi
heavier more skilled Klibanophoroi
Tagmata Kataphraktoi
heavier more skilled Kataphraktoi



Objection 1)
Guys! so many chainmails! ~:) In the early period (esp until 1080) the main protection of the soldiers body was klivanion (lamellar) and lorikion (scale) armour. Chainmail (the zava) was not so famous among the Byzantines!

Objection 2)
Who are the Trapezountae..? In greek the word means: many Trebzons ! (Trapezounta=Trebzon) They would have been called "Trapezountioi" (people from Trebzon)
I think its an obvious missunderstanding with "Trapezitae" (also called "Monozonoi"=one belted) who were the light Byzantine infantry of this era.
:charge:

[blindfaithnogod]

they are going to be mounted archers, we should obviously change the name based on that info, thanks. :)

EDIT: updated

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the info guys.
Looks like we're gonna have problems with the unit and model limits. ~D

Also, new screenshots are on they way, along with the second update!!! ~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

New screens. Tell me what do you think of them. ~:cheers:
They might be reworked. If so, they'll be in our second update which will come soon. ~:)

Paramonai(lively colours..if you want, I can post the toned down version)

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6985/paramonai0fj.jpg

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8910/paramonai28dn.jpg

Mourtatoi(armoured archers)

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2441/mourtatoi6gm.jpg

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1913/mourtatoi25jp.jpg

Hope you liked them.

[Seleukos]

Objection 1)

I think its an obvious missunderstanding with "Trapezitae" (also called "Monozonoi"=one belted) who were the light Byzantine infantry of this era.
:charge:

Ups!!!!!!!!
Not infantry ,but light CAVALRY!!!!! :charge:

[edyzmedieval]

No problem.

It was normal because the Trapezitae was light cavalry, so I figured it out.... ~:cheers:

[al'Callaendor]

good job~:)

[Seleukos]

I have mentioned it in the "byzantiumtotalwar forum" too-
the guys on the screenshot dont seem to be mourtatoi - they are like heavy 10th-11th century infantry with bows.
Mourtatoi were Turks who became christians,and their clothing had turkish elements too.

[blindfaithnogod]

they will be changed, ;), or rather they have been changed

[edyzmedieval]

When the update comes, you'll see lots of new units.
It has been a postponed, because we want some more units done. ~:)

[hellas1]

Hello Edyz!

Some history & thoughts.

Check it out. In the 8th or 9th century, Byzantium sent missionaries to the slavic people(s) of Modern Day Russia, or Rus. They converted and became "eastern" christian, which developed into orthodoxy and spoke and still speak "Cyrillic" named after Cyril, one of those missionaries.
Connections between us Greeks & Russians are still ongoing, my friend.

My question is this: How far time wise will Russia be involved in BTW in the later Byzantine time period?

Another thought is this, friend:

What about Albania & Yugoslavia? In later Byzantine times, I believe, Albania was called, from what I know, "Alvania", in Greek. Yugoslavia was composed of Moldavia, I think, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and other provinces/kingdoms, not to forget Translyvania with Vlad Tepes, Armenia and Pontus which was pretty much Greek at that time, I believe, and acted as an center for trade and had outposts along the Black Sea. Greeks from that area are still called "Pontiaki."

My point on this one is this: Will these be addressed also?

It would be interesting to see developments along these lines. ~:cheers:

You know darn it, I wish I could mod. I suck. Sorry, dude.
I want to contribute to make this Para Poli Oraio-Gk. for Very, Very, Beautiful/Excellent.

Hellas1-"Na Zisi O Basilieus ton Byzantinon, Na Zisi H Ellas, Na Zisi BTW!"

[Csatadi]

What about Albania & Yugoslavia?
Hey, man Yugoslavia is a country from nowadays, not from the 10th!

You think it badly. Moldavia was under Pecheneg control until 1070-72.

Vlad Tepes is a guy from the 15th century and from Wallachia.

Transylvania is part of Hungary (in this era).

Thanks, I laughed very much! ~D

[edyzmedieval]

Vlad Tepes is from Walalchia, from the 15th century.
Moldavia was under Pecheneg and Avar rule.
After that, it was part of Kiev.

But in the 14th century, they became independent, with some excellent units, like Moldavian archers, which packed a big punch. They will be included. ~:)

[hellas1]

Hey All,
Thanks!

Just trying to give some input, ya'know?
Later, By the way, Keep up the good work.

P.S. Remember, I mentioned Serbia, Moldavia, etc., composing what is NOW Yugoslavia. Not "Yugoslavia" only. Cool?, cool.
Where did you get the 10th century from, I never mentioned the 10th century, re-read what I said.
It was meant for the late Byzantine period guys!

Also, for Edyz & Seleukos, guys, How can you not include the patriarchies and their influence? Orthodoxy is an INTEGRAL part of Byzantium. Please, friends, re-consider this issue. Na Eisaste Kala.

[Kralizec]

Looks promising edyzmedieval and blindfaithnogod, keep up the good work~:cheers:

Small side question: are you going to make the mod for BI or RTW 1.3?

[edyzmedieval]

Germansee,

It's for RTW BI. We might do one for RTW 1.3, who knows. ~:)

@hellas1

We'll have a title with the patriarch. We might include the Patriarchy as the Senate. We'll think about it.

[Seleukos]

We'll have a title with the patriarch. We might include the Patriarchy as the Senate. We'll think about it.

I think u shouldnt do this guys,
the patriarch may sometimes have influenced politics,but in any case he wasnt like the Pope.
The emperor was the absolute ruler of the empire.

[edyzmedieval]

Then how are we gonna implement the Patriarchy?!

Sincerely, I have no idea for this....

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

I think u shouldnt do this guys,
the patriarch may sometimes have influenced politics,but in any case he wasnt like the Pope.
The emperor was the absolute ruler of the empire.

I agree with Seleukos.The supreme ruler of the Empire was only the Emperor or the Empress.Whoever was against the faith of the Emperor,who was seen at that time as the king of kings appointed by God Himself to bring the orthodox version of Christianity to the Universe,was seen as a heretic.There were many patriarchs who were just executed by the Emperor with the charge of conspiracy and heresy or were lynched by the crowd in the Circus Maximus of Constantinople.The patriarch was in fact a puppet of the Emperor,unlike in the West,where the Pope was struggling to survive fighting against the German Emperor and the Byzantine Emperor.:knight:

[edyzmedieval]

I agree that the Patriarch was a puppet. But we will try to find a way to include this guy also....

~:cheers:

P.S.: We might fusion with Crusader TW.....

[hellas1]

Hello All!

Thank you for at least considering my input.

I'm not trying to cause problems, only what I believe to be some useful historical helps to this mod, as this mod is meant to follow historical realism.

To me, Edyz and Seleukos (Filarakia mou), "Byzavtivoi" and "Orthodoxia" go hand in hand. Impossible to separate. Even through the rise, waxing and waning of Byzantium, the Greek people and orthodox religion went hand in hand. Even up to the time of the Greek rebellion against Turkish occupation in 1821 (Kolokotronis, Bouboulina, kai ta Lnpa va poume) and after, religion & gov't were and are still tied together in Greece.

Even though it's not like the Patriarchs are the pope, clearly they aren't.
Nor were they meant to be as such, I believe they/he ,whatever, should be a included as sub-senate type of figure/character.

Just my thoughts, folks. That's it.

Kali Nnxta, paidia!

Aiwvia H Ellas! Hellas1 (From Thessalia!)

[edyzmedieval]

Hehe Hellas ~:)

It's kinda hard to implement the Patriarch because of the limits of the TW engine. Anyways, we'll try to see what we can do about this. ~:)

More work done, including the campaign map. ~:cheers:

[hellas1]

Hi all,

Do what you feel is right and what coding allows!
I only want the very best mod possible and am trying to give whatever input I can sir.

Thank you for respecting me.

-Na Zisi O Basileus kai H Ellas mazi!

Hellas1~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

You're welcome Hellas. ~:cheers:

You might wanna help us with some historical info. Come to our Imperium forum, we need some help. ~:)

Good news guys!!! The update is almost ready!!!! ~:cheers:

[Seleukos]

The Factions
===========

High Era

Byzantine Empire
Empire of Niceea
Empire of Trebizond
===



Guys ,there is a mistake here.
We cannot include both Byzantine Empire and Empire of Nicea.
In 1204 there is no empire in Constantinoupolis(i m sure u know this)

So,either the player should start the High period as Byzantine Empire but not controlling Constantinoupolis,
or this:
There could be separate factions:Epirus,Trapezounta,Nicea and the player can choose one of them.The faction among these which takes Constantinoupolis changes to "Byzantine Empire"-and if it looses it is renamed again in epirus,nic,trap)

I think this is the most historically correct,but i dont know how and if this can be programmed.

[Helgi]

Guys ,there is a mistake here.
We cannot include both Byzantine Empire and Empire of Nicea.
In 1204 there is no empire in Constantinoupolis(i m sure u know this)

So,either the player should start the High period as Byzantine Empire but not controlling Constantinoupolis,
or this:
There could be separate factions:Epirus,Trapezounta,Nicea and the player can choose one of them.The faction among these which takes Constantinoupolis changes to "Byzantine Empire"-and if it looses it is renamed again in epirus,nic,trap)

I think this is the most historically correct,but i dont know how and if this can be programmed.
Around that time, don't you have the Crusader State Latin Kingdom or Empire in control of Constantinople and Macedonia? just a small question of sort's.:knight: ~:cheers: :knight:

[edyzmedieval]

OOPs!!! My mistake!!! ~D

Sorry, will edit. ~:)

[kataphraktoi]

A suggestion for the Patriarch issue.

Create a unit like the orthodox priests in BI.

This Patriarch "Unit" will have an entourage of priests around him with the Patriarch as an "officer" unit.
In addition, the cost training and upkeep of a "Patriarch" will be expensive for two reaons:
a) discourage stupidity of training more than one Patriarch by players for watever reason
b) because they were leeches of Imperial revenues - in history, imperial patronage of church was quite an expensive exercise

This Patriarch unit should have absolutely no combat ability....no duh!!
But it should have the historically correct ability to raise morale.

Now, if only they could gain vices and virtues

[kataphraktoi]

hmm... are priests units abvle to be modded to carry relics and icons?

[edyzmedieval]

Funny. You seem to have gave me a modding breaktrough.... ~:cheers:

We can do the Patriarch like a character, with his own unit card. He will be able to get vices and virtues. He won't be able to construct or recruit mercenaries. He will have Mounted Orthodox Priests. They will be much more powerful Orthodox Priests.

They will be recruitable, and have a huuuge training cost. And only 1 time, if that's possible.

They can be modelled to have a relic. ~:)

We'll see what we can do with these guys. ~D

[Azi Tohak]

Looks good edzy. I am very interested.

Thanks!

Azi

[edyzmedieval]

Glad you like it Azi.~:)

We are working hard to bring to the modding community an excellent mod. ~:cheers:

[Seleukos]

I think we shouldnt forget the monks!!
They were playing a very significant role in byzantine society-influenced the people very much.
It is said that during the 10th century,its estimated that 1/4 of the Byzantines were living in monasteries! (even if is an exaggerasion,it shows the spread of monasteries and hermites in Byzantine world).

[edyzmedieval]

I don't think we should include Monks on the battlefield... Come on, it's not historical!!!

Monasteries, Hermitages and other religious buildings will surely be included. ~:)

[Seleukos]

I don't think we should include Monks on the battlefield... Come on, it's not historical!!!

Monasteries, Hermitages and other religious buildings will surely be included. ~:)


Yes ,yes! i didnt mean on battlefield.
Although there were priests,who followed the army on campaign,and even praying before the charge.

[EvilNed]

Why don't you make the Patriach a title that can be given to anyone of your family members (works like a retinue or ancilliary). That way, the Patriarch is in the game and a member of your faction. The title can give him a plus 5 in influence or something.

[hellas1]

AHHHHHHHH, Discussion about something historical- The Patriarch
Actually it should be Patriarchs-Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Byzantium, and somewhere else! Read about it!
I like it. Lively discussion folks! Great.

Dear Edyz,

Where is BTW's imperium forum for my historical input?
ie. how do I navigate there?

Thank you, sir! No more posting from me here, I just wanted to stress this actual, historical point.

P.S. I've been thinking about buying some byzantine secular & religious music to implement in this mod! Cool?

~:cool:

[edyzmedieval]

@Evil Ned

No, we can't do that. It won't be historical

@hellas

Religious music.... I don't think so. It would be too boring....~:handball:
Here's the link to the Imperium forum:

http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War

Go to Byzantium TW forum, just slide down. ~:)

Cheers everybody ~:cheers:

[EvilNed]

Why wouldn't it be historical? You have one character who is a patriach and he is obviously an underling to the emperor. Should the emperor become displeased with him, he can easily replace him with someone else. And the Patriach WAS a title carried by many men.

I think it would be very historical, actually.

[kataphraktoi]

To call Patriarchs underlings of Emperors is just simple generalising it to the point of unbelievability.

True, the Patriarchs weren't as powerful as the Pope's but they were still powerful. Very few Patriarchs were directly placed by Emperors, most of the time they wer4e the perogative of the church.

In Byzantine history, Patriarchs gave the Emperors headaches when secular and religious interests clashed. This represents how strong a Patriarch could impose his personality when his church's prestige and power had to be upheld. Examples were Michael Cerularius, Photius and Polyeuctus.

To solve the issue of the Antiochean, Jerusalemite, Alexandrian, Constantinopolitan Patriarchs why not make 4 Patriarchs with their own respective "city" designators. eg. "Patriarch of Antioch". It is up to the player to create and train one Patriarch for each of the 4 Patriarchates instead of being stupid and creating a whole bunch of them.

Possible solution:
Make Patriarchs out of spy units so they can install themselves in friendly and enemy cities. Their presence can cause unrest in enemy cities if they represent Christians in Muslim and Pagan cities.

In addition, like spies they can get kicked out. Well, despite all this fallacy about Muslim tolerance Christian Patriarchs did experience the thin end of the rod when things went badly against Muslim armies on the Byzantine frontiers.

Make Patriarchs out of diplomat units. Patriarchs can and plausibly did serve the role as interceders and intermediaries between states and as representatives of Christians.

-------------------------------

[edyzmedieval]

Interesting proposal Kataphraktoi. ~:)

Now, what do you think of our screenshots?! Are they good units?!

[kataphraktoi]

huh? what screenies?

on the org or twcenter??

[kataphraktoi]

Byzantium had an interesting department for intelligience gathering.

If I recall there was an "Office of Barbarians".

IN this mod, you might decide to make another spy unit and mod his skin to be that of a court official depending on what faction he is spying against. Historians have alluded to Byzantium's use of spies by installing them in enemy courts.

Examples:
A spy dressed as an Abbasid court official and placed in the Abbasid capital
A spy dressed as a Bulgarian court official and placed in the Bulgarian capital

Here;s another thing that rattled in my head today.

Is it possible to position forts with miitary units in the text files in the RTW: BI directory. It would be interesting to set up Byzantine fortifications in mountain passes and river crossings by the time you start the campaign in the first year. It could apply for Byzantium's enemies.

Eg. Tripoli was well fortified, but so were Emesa, Raphanea and Shaizar in the nearby regions. And since u cant make provinces for each important fortified place, you might was well place forts there with troops there.

[kataphraktoi]

Here's another stupid idea.

Some vices and virtues are acquired by what generals. Eg. recruiting mercenaries gives a general a bonus when leading mercenaries.

Byzantium conferred titles and in fact sold titles. Is it possible to create agent units that confer titles with vices/virtues? The role of the agent is not important, but rather its role as a giver/presenter of the title.

If you wanted to confer a Patrician title on a general, you "train" this conferring agent and then attach him to the general just like spies that merge with the general's figure on the campaign map.

Some titles were purely honorary, others however had an annual stipend that came with the title. Suppose you wanted to confer a title of Patrician to "increase" loyality of an exceptionally dangerous general with low loyalty you train the unit at a cost of 45000 denarii. Why?

a) 45000 represents the annual stipend a general would recieve in his lifetime until he dies (at most a general lives for around 30-40 years so at best, he gets 1000 a year for 40 years which is roughly 40000 denarii. Consider it an advanced lump sum payment of stipends!

b) so people won't go overboard and train so many conferers of titles!

c) represents the historically accurate cost of conferring titles which can be bought and have annual stipends from the court attached to it which of course makes it expensive but effective if used well.

Now, of course, this can be applied to other kinds of titles for other factions.
Eg. even after the Nicaeans conquered Constantinople, there was a titular title that Latins stilled used that designated a Latin as Emperor of Constantinople. A latin faction could a conferrer of the title to give to their faction leader.

This can expand to religious roles of the Patriarch where their lifetime salary is cost of training the conferrer of the title.

Ok, enough of my iconoclastic ramblings.

[kataphraktoi]

Screenies are nice, wish I had time to learn how to skin and mod. If I could, I'd shotgun the modelling of John Tzimicies golden Immortal Tagmata units.

:hide:

[edyzmedieval]

I think I can succesfully add you to the BTW team. You came up with excellent gameplay ideas. ~:cheers:

You can learn to skin or model by visiting the Scriptorium. ~:)

[kataphraktoi]

I don't mind being dropping a few ideas, I love Byzantium but have rarely anytime to dabble in modding. IN addition, I don't have all the software...until I go to asia...hehehehe.

Besides, I got exams and then Im going overseas.

Ok. Heres another idea that knocked around my head at uni.

At John Tzimices death in 976, there is no suggestion that the Immmortals were immediately disbanded. BUt the silence of historians does suggest that thw Immortals eventually were disbanded or simply grew too old (after all u don't expect 30 yr olds in 976 to fight when theyire 80 yrs old in 1025 do ya? hahaha).

An Immortals Tagmata unit could be placed in the capital in 976, however, they can't be retrained if they're decimated. In addition, new units cannot be trainied either, Basically, if u get them wiped out, they're gone forever. But you get a least a unit from the start of the campaign.

This kinda solves tricky issues of Tagmata units that don't last beyond a single ruler's reign.

Here's an idea I got while showering...don't ask why it happened...call it serendipity.

There were variations of Varangian Guards in Byzantine service - this affects their arms/armour/appearance:

Varangian Guard version A:Newly arrived Varangian, retains original arms and armour which includes iron helmet(with nasal guard), mail shirt, axe and sword and spear. Wears a mixture of Slav and Turkic clothing. Shield is rectangular or round.

Varangian Guard version B: Been in the service a few years now. With access to imperial arsenal, Varangian wears a mail shirt down to the knees and elbows. Has a iron helmet (with or without nasal guard) and an open aventail or complete wraparound aventail. Also has splint greaces and vambraces. Carries sword, long axe or spear.Shield by this period is of the kite-shielded kind but the Skuta can still be used.

Varangian Guard version C: Been in the service long enough to speak Greek and possibly adopt the Christian faith. His armour may resemble that of version B but in general, his armour is completely Byzantinised. It is reflected in his lamellar cuirass to elbows and knees (like the Klibanophori) over a padded coat or a padded coat quilted with mail. His long axe may be worn out or replcaed by a Byzantine custom manufacture. In addition he could be equipped with the falx-like Rhompaia described as having a blade as long as the handle oftened carried by Byzantine guardsmen. A sword and spear is an option. Helmet has either open aventail or wraparound aventail. Shield is either kite-shaped or a round Skuta.

On the issue of Kataphraktoi/Klibanophori. I haven't read all the stuff yet, but this my interpretation anyway.

Tagmatic Klibanophori: Why only Tagmatic? The expense of equipping one made sense to restrict it to elite soldiers of the capital. Iin addition, Tagmata were also stationed in the capital and in the provinces as well, unlike the previous system of only stationing them in the capital. So they could be raised from the Themes without being "Thematic" soldiers. Primarily melee units designed close combat, not for charging. Mace and Kontos main weapons. Bows are for lighter armoured Klibs or other light horse archer cavalrymen in the wedge formation.

Tagmatic Kataphraktoi: Belonged to one of the permanent Tagmatas or periodic Tagmatas (like the Immortals). Generally, they were better equipped heavy cavalry with the predominant lamellar over mail protection. Padded coating could also be worn underneath. Higher pay, higher morale and separated them from Thematic Kataphratkoi. Can be doubly armed, but they are not the composite lancer/archer Kataphraktoi of earlier times anymore. They are strictly either archers or lancers - Leo's Taktika specifies this as does Maurice who showed his preference for either bow or lance.

Thematic Kataphraktoi: Most likely from the magnate clans of Anatolia who formed the civil and military aristocracy of the region. Being aristocrats, they had the ability to purchase good quality equipment just like the Tagmatic Kataphraktoi (if not better than government issue). Difference is pay and morale. Weapons are like the Tags. Leo describes "first class" Thematic cavalry as "Kataphraktoi".

Thematic cavalry (don't know Greek name): Most likely spear/sword/shield armed cavalrymen. Wealthier soldiers could afford lamellar cuirasses.

Second class cavalrymen were probably the Trapezitois or lighter armoured version of the waelthier ones.

When I get time, I;ll learn to mod and start churning out some units. Who knows, I might do the Georgian thing and post numerous threads on Georgia's army. ~:joker:

[kataphraktoi]

hmmm. Are you guys gonna create Dzekone's units?

These guys are poor thematic soldiers who can't afford equipment or can't fulfill their military service as specified. Basically, they're just poor! No wonder why they get the nickname "cattle-thiefs". So what do these poor blighters do? They sign up for garrison duty ~D Everyone's happy!!! ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[Seleukos]

hmmm. Are you guys gonna create Dzekone's units?


"dzekone" ??? Whats this ???? ~:confused:

Where u read it? the word doesnt seem to be greek at all.

[edyzmedieval]

We plan on including the 4 Tagmata schools.
The problem is, we have difficulties in establishing, because everyone comes with solid info, and it's hard to decide.
As for the Immortals, we might do it. ~D

We have 2 types of Varangians anyways....

Dzekones?! Then what are Evzones?!

Oh, don't do Georgia, or I'm gonna have you reported for spamming. ~D

[kataphraktoi]

I think I mean Tzakones. I can't quite remember the Greek name, but this might be it. Basically they're thematic soldiers who too poor to be equipped so they sign up for garrisoning duties. Considering the professionalisation of the army around 976 and the decreasing importance of thematic soldiers..plus the increasing size of the empire, this would seem plausible.
One thing about mods is that there is always a plethora of units you add to a faction. What a nightmare!!!

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

The Tzakones were used as guards at several places and most of them were recruited in Morea(Peloponesos).They also served as marines.
Even now there are people in Peloponesos,Greece who are called Tzakones and speak a Greek dialect derived not from the Hellinistic Koine(from which the official Greek are derived) but from a Doric local dialect.

[kataphraktoi]

ok, its pretty clear I don't have the exact name. But there was an actual category of thematic soldiers who were garrison fodder.

Ok, no Georgia spamming, how about Mangoup spamming? Yes, Mangoup, that little breakaway state in the Crimea when Constantinople fell. Mangoup is so small it was only by chance that I came across this little breakaway crumb of a state on the internet.

MANGOUP POWAH!!!

But in all seriousness, this mod is humming quite nicely. The Cuman/Mongol Heavy Cav looked top class and those Matzoukions! Man, they're sure to leave a birthmark on ya!!!.

[Seleukos]

The Tzakones were used as guards at several places and most of them were recruited in Morea(Peloponesos).They also served as marines.
Even now there are people in Peloponesos,Greece who are called Tzakones and speak a Greek dialect derived not from the Hellinistic Koine(from which the official Greek are derived) but from a Doric local dialect.


Well,its Tsakones or Tzakones then ~:)

It is also said that they were of slavic origin.
I think they lived only on mountain Taygetos,besides the "Melingi" tribe.
U mean that "tzakones" isnt a name of a tribe ? And were they used so wide?

[Byzantine Prince]

If you guys want I can create some sharp signatures, in greek.

[blindfaithnogod]

oh, definalty go for. you have our blessing ~D

[Byzantine Prince]

How do you make their byte size small. I notice that the current byzantium ones are over 20 kb, while yours is really good quality and it's only 3 kb.

[edyzmedieval]

It's not necessary what size. Just do it good. ~D

Excellent guys!!! Thanks. Our Evzones are the Tzakones. Thank God we found out who these guys were..... ~:cheers:

[blindfaithnogod]

hoggy made the blue lotus one, so im not really sure how he did it..... im guessing its just the file format.

[Byzantine Prince]

It's not the file format. I'm mad at myself, I made a really good one and tehn I deleted it because it was like 30kb. Ok so how do I do it?

https://img419.imageshack.us/img419/4307/paladorocopy5ys.gif

Here's one that I like the colours of. It's not even close to being as good as the others though so hold your breath.

And another:

https://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6316/icon2311copy2xf.gif

[edyzmedieval]

Cute. But it's Byzantium.

Hmm, do you guys know the exact name in Greece of Byzantium?! ~:cheers:

[Byzantine Prince]

Βυζαντινή αυτοκρατορία, or Ανατολική ρωμαϊκή αυτοκρατορία

The second is the most accurate.

Byzantium sounds wrong to me.

[edyzmedieval]

And in Latin?!We need in latin, cause nobody would like it in actual Greek....

[Byzantine Prince]

There is no name in Latin. You can just name it byzantion since it represents the culture and then for the sake of historical accuracy make the name like it's supposed to. Or you could just call it Eastern Roman Empire.

[edyzmedieval]

No no no...In latin letters I mean....

[Byzantine Prince]

Anatoliki Romaiki Aftokratoria. The best I can do. It's still too large to be sigged.

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

Actually,the Byzantine Greek State or the Eastern Roman Empire was called by the people who lived at that time Ρωμανία or in Latin letters Romania.This is how the empire was called by its subjects.
There is a traditional song about the capture of Constantinopolis,if i remember well:Η Ρωμανίαν πάρθεν/ I Romanian parthen=the Empire was captured

[Seleukos]

Well the official name of the state :Romaiki Aftikratoria (Ρωμαϊκή Αυτοκρατορία) (Roman Empire)
And among the people :Roman'ia (Ρωμανία)
The people were called Romei (Ρωμαίοι) or Romji (Ρωμιοί).

"..Η Ρωμανία κι αν πέρασεν ανθεί και φέρει κι άλλον"
"..Εven if it was captured,Romania will blossom and rise again"

[edyzmedieval]

Maybe we should rename the mod Romaiki Aftokratoria?! ~:)

[Seleukos]

Maybe we should rename the mod Romaiki Aftokratoria?! ~:)


Well,i dont think it would be a quiet good idea-Romaiki aftokratoria ,means roman empire,and even in greek noone could think its about Byzantium ! ~:)

[edyzmedieval]

Ok, 2 votes for yes.

Anyone?! ~D

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Its your mod its up to you, it depends whether you wan't your mod to be historically accurate or easy to understand what its about, but then frankly not many people know who the Byzantines are anyway!

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

Well the official name of the state :Romaiki Aftikratoria (Ρωμαϊκή Αυτοκρατορία) (Roman Empire)
And among the people :Roman'ia (Ρωμανία)
The people were called Romei (Ρωμαίοι) or Romji (Ρωμιοί).

"..Η Ρωμανία κι αν πέρασεν ανθεί και φέρει κι άλλον"
"..Εven if it was captured,Romania will blossom and rise again"

Seleuce,The terms Romaiki Aftokratoria,Eastern Roman Empire or Byzantion(Byzantium) are neologisms.The state,officially and unofficially,was called just Ρωμανία.
Maybe Ρωμανία with Greek letters is a good solution to your problem, edyz.

[edyzmedieval]

Guys, Latin letters only for the name!!!

Nobody will understand greek words.... ~:mecry:

[Csatadi]

I think the name of the mod can be Byzantion TW it really sounds more Greek.
But in the game you can name it anyhow. Romania has another meaning now, thus even Romaiki Aftokratoria sounds good.

Byzantine Prince: I like your first pic better.

[edyzmedieval]

Possibly...

I think we need to ask some more Greeks about their opinion. ~:)

[Seleukos]

Well Byzantion is Byzantium in greek(the ending -ion is neutral ending)
Its pronounced "viza'dion".
But i agree with signifer, ΡΩΜΑΝΙΑ with byzantine-style letters would be better.

[hellas1]

Howdy y'all? ~:joker:

I couldn't resist.

Yes, In greek it's called Byzantiov, pronounced vi-ZAN-ti-on.
Today, the Greeks in turkey are called "Roum" by the turks.

Istanbul came from the Turks, who upon hearing Greeks say "Eis tin Poli."
Poli meaning city back then, not city state!

Na Eisaste Kala!

Yia Sou Thessalia! :knight:

[Csatadi]

After some thinking if the name will be Romania in the introduction you can explain the reasons. This is neccesary if you want to avoid the complains: "why did you called Byzantion to Romania? I never heard about it." ~:)

[edyzmedieval]

It might also sound Romania TW, just like my country.....

So, drop it. Maybe Byzantion Autokratoria... ~:)

[Csatadi]

Yeah. But I meant to call the mod Byzantion TW (what everybody know well - good PR) but in the game B can be Romania. And in the intro you will write what these Greek guys interpreted. The guys will be amazed about this historic but unknown fact.
Btw Why the hell we learnt about it as Byzantine Empire???

[Aetius22]

Historians decided to call them the Byzantines, because originally the city was called Bizantium. When the Western Roman Empire fell, they decided that they had to call the Eastern Empire something else to differentiate them. So after 476ad it's called the Byzantine Empire. Makes no sense to me, since as far as I know, they still called themselves Romans right?

Anyways, I would call the mod Byzantine TW, it's easier to understand what it's about. To me at least. The screenshots I saw are good, and I am looking forward to seeing this finished!

[edyzmedieval]

From aetius's point of view, he's totally right... :bow:
It's easier to understand and view it like this, than a complicated Greek name....

It has to stay like this, because only few people know the exact name....

[Seleukos]

well ok,the title could stay as it is...
but i think it would be nice,if inside the game,the faction is called Romani'a (Ρωμανία) and the people Romei.(or Rhomaioi)

[edyzmedieval]

Yeah of course, we might be able to do that....

Call the Byzantines - Rhomaiki Autokratoria. ~:)

[bozkirsovalyesi]

well bibliography:
............................................................

http://www.middleages-totalwar.com/

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2479&st=520

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the info.

Hey guys, looking for some devoted Byzantine and the surrounding area researchers...My current team left the forums...Haven't heard a word from them.... ~:mecry:

[skeletor]

You should try to get in contact with a "Romanus" on the RTR forum. I don't know if hes still there, but he helped me out with alot of research..

Btw, we allso call them Romaiki Autokratoria :-)

-Skel-

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the tip man. ~:) ~:cheers:

Yeah, I saw that. Maybe we'll do that also... ~:)

[Byzantine Prince]

Thanks for the tip man. ~:) ~:cheers:

Yeah, I saw that. Maybe we'll do that also... ~:)
What the hell? Yeah don't trust someone who speaks the languages fully and who studied Byzantine History in Greece. Pffft. I'm pissed off!!!! No don't talk to me!













~;p

[snevets]

Romanus... yes he's around pm him at twc. He's spending most of his rtw time on the mod I'm working on though. Map making and scripting for Hegemonia. Also rhomoi is a bad name, its sounds too much like rhompoi, which is a bad translation for a kind of sword like weapon, watch your english transliterations. They were Romans. They thought of themselves, called themselves and acted as Romans, call them as they are. Truly you can't refer to them with the term autokratoria, they weren't an empire really, but a state. The empire part occured long before they came to power. MOST of their history they were fighting to remain in control of their land, not expanding.

[edyzmedieval]

Hehe Byz Prince. ~D

The only new name would be Romaiki Autokratoria.

[hellas1]

Hi Edyz,

Don't let people get you down File!

I just thought of something, instead of "total war" this, "total war" that,
why not "Byzantine Epoch?"

Just thinkin my man!

Yia Sou!~:cheers:

[edyzmedieval]

Neah, it's TW and it should be TW. ~D

[Csatadi]

Is the campaign map ready?
Here you can read about the map of the Carpathian basin.
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//...howtopic=12181 (http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//index.php?showtopic=12181)

[Csatadi]

Magyar names to the age of 976
-------------------------------
MEN
Acsád
Adony
Ajtony
Ákus
Álmus
Apor
Bánk
Bátur
Becse
Béla
Berény
Bogát
Bojta
Bókony
Bors
Bot
Botond
Bökény
Buda
Bulcsu
Csanád
Csege
Cseke
Csepel
Elmér
Előd
Farkas
Gyeicsa
Hollus
Kál
Karád
Kartal
Katapán
Keled
Kerecsen
Ketel
Keve
Kuppány
Kurszán
Küzsdég
Lél
Levedi
Makó
Mikán
Mike
Miske
Móg
Nyárád
Obus
Ócsád
Öden
Özséb
Pozsony
Súr
Szecsőd
Szerénd
Szoárd
Szolnok
Taksony
Tarcal
Tas
Turda
Vajk
Vál
Vata
Zolta
Zoltán
Zombor
Zsolt
Mihály
Ottó
Henrik
László
István
János
Betlehem
Salamon
Sámson
Péter
Kálmán
András
Béla
Gyula
Levente
Imre

WOMEN
Ajánduk
Ajnácska
Áldáska
Arany
Arencsa
Arika
Barót
Bíbur
Bogárd
Bolda
Buga
Csente
Cseperka
Csepke
Csikó
Csillag
Csuda
Delin
Déva
Emesu
Emőke
Enét
Fehéra
Fürti
Gilvád
Gyöngy
Hajna
Havadi
Heta
Jóleán
Karold
Kecse
Köncse
Krabocsa
Lelle
Lente
Mag
Manga
Mikolt
Nyesta
Örsi
Öte
Piriska
Rásdi
Réka
Sáfély
Sarolt
Somocsa
Szecsőke
Szépa
Virág
Rózsa
Viola
Lilium
Mária
Katalin
Zsuzsanna
Ilona


Notes: I tryed to present the old form of the names.
This list fits well to this era until ~1100.

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the names. ~:cheers:

No, the map isn't finished. Work in progress.

[Csatadi]

I hoped it. I saw one on the imperium forum.
I must say the Hungarian provinces are very strange. I think I wrote about it earlier but the they remained as they were. I can help dividing the country if you need some help.
To the geographical map see this: http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//...howtopic=12181 (http://forums.rometotalrealism.org//index.php?showtopic=12181)

[Kralizec]

I have a question, are there going to be crusades? I realise it's not possible to simulate them the way in MTW, but the hordes in BI might give an answer. How about having several emerging factions that pop up at pre-determined dates, called 1st, 2nd, and 3rd crusade? They'd appear as a horde, and should be coded as to be especially hostile to the islamic factions so they'll probably attack those, with the remote possibility however that they'll attack others, such as happened to Constantinople in 1204.

I don't have BI myself, so I don't know how feasonable this idea is.

[blindfaithnogod]

I have a question, are there going to be crusades? I realise it's not possible to simulate them the way in MTW, but the hordes in BI might give an answer. How about having several emerging factions that pop up at pre-determined dates, called 1st, 2nd, and 3rd crusade? They'd appear as a horde, and should be coded as to be especially hostile to the islamic factions so they'll probably attack those, with the remote possibility however that they'll attack others, such as happened to Constantinople in 1204.

I don't have BI myself, so I don't know how feasonable this idea is.

this is pretty much what we had in mind

[Pompei the Great]

Does Byzantium TW cover Belisarius and his campaigns?

[KonstantinosXI]

No..i think it starts in 976...

[edyzmedieval]

Sorry, no. It starts in 976.

We are planning submods with Justinian's Legacy. ~:)

[Csatadi]

Magyar faction

Taksony
931-972 AS A DEAD LEADER!
wife Katincsa
932-

1. son Gyeicsa faction leader
940-
wife Sarolt
954-
influential wife
short-tempered
made sacrifices to two gods - the Christian one and the old Hungarian god.
dont attack neighbours ->governor type character

2. son Mihály faction heir
944-
wife: Bulgarian princess
we know nothing about him. died very early not known the time.
he can be also a dead character or ill etc.


3. daughter Judit
946-
husband Zoltán
946-
we dont know him. the only known fact he was a relative of the Árpád family and was very old in ~1010.
my suggestion ->governor type character




Gyeicsa's daughter
Judit
972-

Gyeicsa's son István
974-

Mihály's son Vászoly
975-


Most of the names appear in old style.




Strategic map
-------------

The Hungarian army should start with (at least) one German knight unit. Their leader was Vencellin.

In this age arrived more and more missionaries - both Catholic and Orthodox. Athrough the forced baptism start
from ~1000.

I suggest Transylvania to be a rebel province with Magyar culture. Leader character: Gyula.
It shouldn't be very easy to capture. Orthodox temple.
The old Hungarian name of Transylvania is Erdőelve.

Rebels
997 Kuppány character in Pannonia near the lake Balaton. Strong pagan "rebellion". In the reality he was a member of
the regal family but very distant relative of the people above.
1003 Gyula character in Transylvania. see above
1018 Ajtony character southern part of the country. Orthodox christian. If the southern part of Hungary will be a
separate province he can own it from the beginning.
1046 Vata character pagan revolt, peasants and warriors
1076 János character pagan revolt, peasants and warriors
other 3 lesser rebel army in 977, 987, 990.


TEch tree idea
Knights who can be build only where catholic church is built.

Mercenaries:
In Hungary can appear German knight units. Their leaders wear German names of course.

[edyzmedieval]

Sorry to dissapoint you, but in the 9th century, there were 3 small factions in Transilvania.

Gelu, Glad and Menumorut. :)

Thanks anyways, and we'll figure it out. A new update is coming!!!! :san_grin:

[Csatadi]

Sorry to dissapoint you, but in the 9th century, there were 3 small factions in Transilvania.

Gelu, Glad and Menumorut. :)

Thanks anyways, and we'll figure it out. A new update is coming!!!! :san_grin:
:san_laugh: Yes I heard in your country historians belive in these fantasy tales.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but even if you belive it this tale tells the relations before the Magyar conquest.

[edyzmedieval]

*rolling on the floor laughing*

You Hungarians mentioned these factions... :san_laugh: It's called Gesta Hungarorum.

And it's no tale. It's very well known. There are even historical sources and archeological evidence.

Sorry, but you made a mistake here.

[Csatadi]

*rolling on the floor laughing*

You Hungarians mentioned these factions... :san_laugh: It's called Gesta Hungarorum.

And it's no tale. It's very well known. There are even historical sources and archeological evidence.

Sorry, but you made a mistake here.
Not we Hungarians but master P. (who called generally as Anonymous) was who made these states-tribes.
The Gesta style in itself is rather a tale than a historical accurate work.
Master P. obviously hadnt already real infos about the conquering. This is understandable he wrote about things what happened 200 years before his era. The modern historians dont belive him because he made a lot very-very important mistakes. Only a little bit: archeologists find Avar presence in the Carpathian basin in the time of the Magyar conquering but master P. dont know about them.
I will translate his major mistakes into English but nowadays I have a lot to do.
I have no time and no reason convincing you.
In 976 Erdőelve (Transylvania) is under the rule of the Gyula who was a separate Magyar tribe leader. (There were more Gyulas. Sarolt, Gyeicsa's wife was the daughter of either Gyula.)

[edyzmedieval]

Oh well, believe what you want.
I don't want this thread to be closed anyways.

Do you like the update that we made guys?! :san_grin:

[Ilsamir Lord]

Great stuff! Was it this mod which had the pictures of those particularly striking building models? The one of the Church of St. Sophia (is that the right church :P ). I hope our mod can have towns as impressive as yours!

[blindfaithnogod]

no we havent done anybuildings yet... you're probably thinking of ChivalryTW...

[Ilsamir Lord]

I'm sure I saw something... oh well my mistake. The rest of the mod is looking great too.

[edyzmedieval]

We'll do buildings also. :)

I'll be impressive, trust me. :san_grin:

[Seleukos]

ok....but the mod goes too slow !

[edyzmedieval]

That's because we are in a lack of modders lately....

I'm very sad because of this.

[mikoyan]

I have a Q: When shall we expect this truly amasing mod?
And another one: Will be able to fight with (not against) the bulgarians, right?

[blindfaithnogod]

honestly we can't really know when the mod will be done.... and yes you will be able to play as the bulgarians

[edyzmedieval]

Yeah, we really can't know unfortunately. We need modders to help us.

:help:

[Byzantine Mercenary]

why don't you merge with another mod, you can pool your resources

[edyzmedieval]

No way...

We tried this before and it ended like s***.

[edyzmedieval]

Here's a little extra for you guys.

Saracen Faris

https://img480.imageshack.us/img480/500/faris4zh.th.jpg (https://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faris4zh.jpg)

https://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9383/faris22ty.th.jpg (https://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faris22ty.jpg)

[edyzmedieval]

Nobody likes it?!

[al'Callaendor]

Nice work, happy?

[edyzmedieval]

Yeah. ~d

Need more opinions though....

[SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA]

They are good,shouldn't they have however scimitars?

[blindfaithnogod]

here's a couple banners i made
https://img321.imageshack.us/img321/7726/byzantinebannersmall0yi.jpg
https://img321.imageshack.us/img321/756/byzantinebanner2small7ou.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

Updated front page with the new members and the new progress. ~D

We gotten many members lately. ~D

[kalifah of watton]

This Mod looks fantstic.Is it finished and if so where can i download it ?
Would it overwrite RTW & RTW/BI Or can it be run seperately.Ive Re-named the East Romans The Byzantine Empire on BI by the way.
all the best, The Kalifah Of Watton......:book:

[therussian91]

This Mod looks fantstic.Is it finished and if so where can i download it ?
Would it overwrite RTW & RTW/BI Or can it be run seperately.Ive Re-named the East Romans The Byzantine Empire on BI by the way.
all the best, The Kalifah Of Watton......:book:
Thanks for the compliments. At the moment we are working on early period. We will be releasing that hopefully during the middle of this year (hopefully). After that, high and late era will come after.


But again, we are in serious need of both coders and modellers.:help:

[edyzmedieval]

Yeah, we need:

-2 coders(for basic coding and stuff)
-1 modeller
-1 scripter(for the scripted events, and special features)

If we can have these guys, we can complete the team and work at 101%, full power and steam ahead! ~D

Plus, I think in this weekend or next week, the first faction preview will be out. ~:)
And also, a special update but later on. ~D

[edyzmedieval]

Why has it gone quiet?!

Anyways, this has been the most active week in the history of Byzantium TW.
We got 2 coders and 3 skinners.

We are preparing 3 special surprises for you guys. ~D
Be prepared. ~D

[hellas1]

Hey Edyz,

Sorry I don't know how to code or mod.
Don't know where to go for coding instruction, nor do I have the funds to buy 3d image fabricating software man.

I'm glad to see you got help though!

OPA! Na Zisi O Basileus kai To Byzavtio!

[edyzmedieval]

Full power for Byzantium!!! ~D

Let me announce some goodies. ~D

- 0.1 BETA
- Faction preview: The Byzantine Empire
- Faction preview: Crusader States

Like it?! ~D