Nato is taking American Money!!!

[Marshal Murat]

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2976&sequence=4

I heard that Europe had lower university costs than America because they didn't need to maintain a large military. Becuase (drum roll)
America pays most of it. We are the muscle behind North Atlantic Treaty Organization! We are the largest contributer followed by Germany, then the United Kingdom.

Our tax dollars are being spent to be the big dog behind the treaty.
Come on France, give a bit more!

[Albino Gorilla]

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2976&sequence=4

I heard that Europe had lower university costs than America because they didn't need to maintain a large military. Becuase (drum roll)
America pays most of it.

That, and Europe has higher taxes.

[Proletariat]

We've flipped the bill for continental Europe's lifestyle for ages. If we hadn't neutralized the threat of conquest by their own neighbors, they'd still be having to fund their own defenses (or speaking the Fatherland's tongue) instead of spending all their money on health care systems and public education.

At least they're grateful about it, though. /sarcasm

[Papewaio]

France, which does not participate in NATO's integrated military command, opts out of many activities funded through the common budgets

Also consider the per capita population...

Approx:
USA 250 million
EU 450 million
So the USAs share would be about a third based on per capita...

[bmolsson]

I must agree with this poster on this comment....

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Wow. That's the biggest load of revisionist BS i've seen this week.

[bmolsson]

Also consider the per capita population...

Approx:
USA 250 million
EU 450 million
So the USAs share would be about a third based on per capita...

If US can't afford it, why not just exit and stop whining ?? :bow:

[sharrukin]

On a per capita basis these countries pay more than the US does.

Belgium
Canada We have 10% of the American population and are paying 4.8 of the total while you only pay 25.2% you cheap deadbeats! DO YOUR SHARE!
France If France was as cheap as you they would only be paying 5%. They pay more than their share at 7.9%. If you paid as much as they do on a per capita basis, you would be paying 39.5%.
Denmark
Germany
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
United Kingdom
Denmark

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Curse our intervention in World War Two!

Anyway, being as NATO hasn't done **** for the US...ever...I say we pull out, supply the Russians with up-to-date nuclear weapons and let them loose.I also say we demand back all money owed to us from WWII, WWI, etc, as well as any other donations we made, being as most of Europe refuses to aid us in the War in Iraq. If they refuse, well, tough ****, EMBARGO... Anyways, we can then pull out of Iraq, let the Brits handle it, station 100,000 Soldiers on Taiwan, and send Europe a big FU.

[Azi Tohak]

Curse our intervention in World War Two!

Anyway, being as NATO hasn't done **** for the US...ever...I say we pull out, supply the Russians with up-to-date nuclear weapons and let them loose.I also say we demand back all money owed to us from WWII, WWI, etc, as well as any other donations we made, being as most of Europe refuses to aid us in the War in Iraq. If they refuse, well, tough ****, EMBARGO... Anyways, we can then pull out of Iraq, let the Brits handle it, station 100,000 Soldiers on Taiwan, and send Europe a big FU.

... Kaiser, do I really need to repeat what Don said earlier this week?

Azi

[Soulforged]

Curse our intervention in World War Two!

Anyway, being as NATO hasn't done **** for the US...ever...I say we pull out, supply the Russians with up-to-date nuclear weapons and let them loose.I also say we demand back all money owed to us from WWII, WWI, etc, as well as any other donations we made, being as most of Europe refuses to aid us in the War in Iraq. If they refuse, well, tough ****, EMBARGO... Anyways, we can then pull out of Iraq, let the Brits handle it, station 100,000 Soldiers on Taiwan, and send Europe a big FU.

Well that's yankee rant...

[Kaiser of Arabia]

*removes toung from cheek* here's a pinch of salt Azi.

[Kagemusha]

What is this talking about US saving Europe in WWII and in Cold war.Firstly half of the European countries were your enemies in WWII.In Cold war again half of the European countries were in the Warsaw pact against you.Europa was an puffer zone between USA an Soviet Union,a battlefield if it would have been necessary.

[bmolsson]

Anyways, we can then pull out of Iraq, let the Brits handle it, station 100,000 Soldiers on Taiwan, and send Europe a big FU.


You could start with recognizing Taiwan as a country, chickens..... ~D :charge:

[Aenlic]

Who do you suppose is financing Dubya's debt? China and Europe, by buying U.S. treasury bonds. We are in hock up to our eye teeth to China and Europe. If you think that doesn't have a huge effect on our foreign policy, then I have a really nice bridge to sell you.

[bmolsson]

I'm normally an Isolationist,


Duh !! ~D ~:grouphug:

[Sjakihata]

Whether I should be amazed or amused, is beyond me. Anyway, I got the free university and even get $900 pr month to study there, so naannaan nah nah

[Meneldil]

Huhu, I'm glad the common US taxpayer founds my free education and healthcare system :rolleyes:

[william the bastard]

Huhu, I'm glad the common US taxpayer founds my free education and healthcare system :rolleyes:

All more fun than France leave NATO for a while :laugh4: just military co operation, not really a full menber ~D

[Louis VI the Fat]

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2976&sequence=4

I heard that Europe had lower university costs than America because they didn't need to maintain a large military. Becuase (drum roll)
America pays most of it. We are the muscle behind North Atlantic Treaty Organization! We are the largest contributer followed by Germany, then the United Kingdom.

Our tax dollars are being spent to be the big dog behind the treaty.
Come on France, give a bit more!Well, as others have said before, perhaps it's fair to divide the contribution by population? Rhode Island doesn't contribute as much to your federal budget as California does either, does it?

France with 60 million inhabitans pays 7.9%
The USA, nearly 300 million, pays 25.2%

Let's divide 300 by 60: 5. And next 25.2% by 5: 5.04%

So a French citizen pays roughly 60% more than an American. Despite that burden we still have enough money left to fund an educational system that teaches us how to make a simple calculation like this. :book:


Oh, and if you're jealous of lower university costs then stop equalling tax with theft. It's not America who pays for our universities, but European taxpayers. American universities rely more heavily on private funding.

This has nothing to do with military spending but with whether you prefer equal educational opportunities for all - or four SUV's for the rich while the middle class struggles to pay for their children's education.

[Brenus]

“I also say we demand back all money owed to us from WWII, WWI, etc, as well as any other donations we made, being as most of Europe refuses to aid us in the War in Iraq. If they refuse, well, tough ****, EMBARGO”
All the debts from WW1 were paid, reason of the WW2, by the way (one of, by domino effect). :book:
WW2, France got none, invaded by Germany, remember…
Marshall Plan was pay back, in access for military bases and other facilities.
In Iraq we were told that the reconstruction will be paid by itself, in petrol funds… Oh, if some US companies give a little bit of their benefits and didn’t sell petrol and goods to the US army for outraged prices, perhaps it will help. Or was it another “I was told by my advisors and I made the mistake to believe them”? ~D

Embargo: With whom US will trade then? China, Russia… If I read well some comments on their common military exercises, some wanted bombed them… Difficult to trade after… Europe will have to turn to East. Well US will have to trade with, well, what left… ~:)

We, guys, are never happy. You are bashing France, denying her any importance (remember French Victories things) and cry because France doesn’t want to sent troops which are, according to you, useless and weak. So France having any substantial forces, how US can fund inexistent items. Be logical… Are the Polish, Slovenian and other New European Forces not enough? Oh, they need the EU funding to pay their new US airplanes… I always forgot… ~D

[Louis VI the Fat]

To be fair, you picked the wrong statistic from that site. The common budget you posted amounts to only $1.1 billion out of a total of $470 billion that the NATO countries spend on defense each year.

The total contributions can be found here (http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=2976&sequence=5).


Sorry, the table below is a bit of a mess.


TABLE A-1.
DEFENSE SPENDING AS A PERCENTAGE OF GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT IN SELECTED YEARS, 1980-2000
1980 1985 1990 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000a

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Belgium 3.3 3.0 2.4 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.5 1.4 1.4
Canada 1.9 2.2 2.0 1.5 1.4 1.2 1.3 1.3 1.2
Czech Republicb n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. 2.2 2.3
Denmark 2.4 2.2 2.0 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.6 1.6 1.5
France 4.0 4.1 3.6 3.1 3.0 2.9 2.8 2.7 2.7
Germany 3.3 3.2 2.8 1.7 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.5 1.5
Greece 5.7 7.1 5.8 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.8 4.8 4.9
Hungaryb n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. 1.6 1.7
Italy 2.4 2.7 2.1 1.8 1.9 2.0 2.0 2.0 1.9
Luxembourg 1.0 1.1 1.1 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.7
Netherlands 3.1 3.1 2.7 2.0 1.9 1.8 1.7 1.8 1.6
Norway 2.9 3.3 3.2 2.4 2.2 2.1 2.3 2.2 1.9
Polandb n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a. 2.0 2.0
Portugal 3.5 3.1 3.1 2.6 2.4 2.4 2.2 2.2 2.2
Spainc n.a. 2.7 1.8 1.5 1.4 1.4 1.3 1.3 1.3
Turkey 4.7 4.5 4.9 3.9 4.1 4.1 4.4 5.4 6.0
United Kingdom 5.0 5.3 4.0 3.0 3.0 2.7 2.7 2.5 2.4
United States 5.1 6.7 5.7 3.8 3.5 3.3 3.1 3.0 3.0

NATO Average 3.5 3.6 3.1 2.4 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.2 2.2
NATO European Averaged 3.4 3.5 3.0 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's compare again, shall we? If we disregard the quite poor countries Turkey and Greece, he USA indeed contributes the largest percentage of it's GDP to our common security.
The US at 3% spends a whopping ten percent more than France at 2.7% on defence. (Wow, so that explains our great educational system!)
It may surprise you that France is second. Above your staunch allies the British.

What this list doesn't include, is money spend on foreign aid, development and peacekeeping operations. On which Europe pays a far, far larger amount than America. Clicky (http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs)

France: 0.42% of GDP.
USA: 0.16% of GDP.

Let's add them up to defense spending:
France 2.7% + 0.42% = 3.12%
USA 3% + 0.16% = 3.16%

That's the total each of us pays for peace and stability.


I heard that Europe had lower university costs than America because they didn't need to maintain a large military. Becuase (drum roll) America pays most of it.

Our tax dollars are being spent to be the big dog behind the treaty.You need to talk to the people who told you this nonsense. Your tax dollars aren't being spent to be the big dog, they just aren't spend on higher education for all. Because (drum roll) American tax payers refuse to pay for it.

[Strike For The South]

Alright heres what we do 400ft wall around gods greatest gift (America) give the finger to the euros watch china take over and eat mcdonalds and drink cheap beer until we pass out...Excellent ~D

[Grey_Fox]

Alright heres what we do 400ft wall around gods greatest gift (America) give the finger to the euros watch china take over and eat mcdonalds and drink cheap beer until we pass out...Excellent ~D

Would this wall be based upon the wall in China that was designed to save it?

[Strike For The South]

Yes but china made 1 mistake theres didnt go all the way around

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So a French citizen pays roughly 60% more than an American

Wow so they have to pay 20% more to protect themselves than we do to protect them. Why are we paying to defend you at all is the point.

It most be for all the grattitude we recieve.

[sharrukin]

So we bomb the Russians, piss-off the Chinese by stationing a 100, 000 troops on Taiwan, demand money from europe and japan, EMBARGO Europe, and leave Britain holding the bag for an American war!

Kaiser have you been reading the wrong books again?

https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2876/notwinfriends8sx.th.jpg (https://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=notwinfriends8sx.jpg)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

No, no, give bombs to russia.

[Sjakihata]

Wow so they have to pay 20% more to protect themselves than we do to protect them. Why are we paying to defend you at all is the point.

It most be for all the grattitude we recieve.

NATO is mutual - we pay for your safety - and you pay for ours. That's the point of an alliance, to stand together and defend each other. It sounds like you don't want to be our allies, tho.

[sharrukin]

No, no, give bombs to russia.

You were suggesting giving them some bombs here as well, but not in quite the same way.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=890660&postcount=25

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Alright heres what we do 400ft wall around gods greatest gift (America) give the finger to the euros watch china take over and eat mcdonalds and drink cheap beer until we pass out...Excellent ~D

We'd have to leave at least one open door -- to import the extra needed heart surgeons to combat your lifestyle suggestions. ~;)



The US Government spends less than most Euro governments on education, and its not because we're funding their defense. It's because education is NOT a function of government. I say privatize the whole blessed thing -- not just university. Why should my taxes pay to force someone who prefers ignorance to waste time in an attempt at learning? 19% of our country's adults never completed their High School education (University Prep or Trade/Vocation Schooling to those of you in other education systems), so let's figure out what to do better with our own tax money rather than attempting to "bitch-slap" Europeans for having a different system than we do. I'm far from a Europhile, but the cost of education in the US does not hinge on the defense spending of Belgium.

SF

[Gawain of Orkeny]

NATO is mutual - we pay for your safety - and you pay for ours.

Thats pretty funny.

[sharrukin]

Gawain, do you think that every President of the United States, and most of their advisors were fools?
They have maintained the NATO link because it is in the best interests of the United States to do so.
What happened regarding the Iraqi situation is a good example of why allies are important.
Why they didn't show up is not something we need to go over again! Having Turkey, France, Germany on side would have been very valuable.

President Bush wanted them there. Is he misguided on that score as well?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You were suggesting giving them some bombs here as well, but not in quite the same way.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=890660&postcount=25
Ok that one was a joke! :rifle:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain, do you think that every President of the United States, and most of their advisors were fools?

Well some were. ~D

You have to admit that its been a pretty onesided alliance.

[Kagemusha]

No, no, give bombs to russia.

Sorry Kaiser,but they have plenty of their own link (http://www.spacewar.com/2004/041210132728.0uutp7j6.html).In rocketry they are in matter of fact ahead of you.Russia is closest to succesfully develop hypersonic ballistic missiles. :bow:

[sharrukin]

Well some were. ~D

You have to admit that its been a pretty onesided alliance.

To a certain degree yes. But all alliances are to some degree. The alliance with Japan is even worse but it is also very valuable for a number of reasons.

Imagine if you will if the alliance we have with europe was one the Chinese or Russians had. Would that be a cause for concern?

[Papewaio]

NATO? Mutual? What a laugh. In the event of the USSR attacking, the only things coming for america would be nukes. You guys can't do crap against that. On the other hand, we'd send enough nukes towards russia to blow them back to the dark ages. Europe would have survived, and Russia and the USA would have been smoldering heaps.

That doesn't sound like Mutual to me.

I think you will find that the short range nukes were aimed at Europe. And a ICBMs were aimed at USA and the rest of the world... even New Zealand which is far off the beat and track would have been targeted because they are a US ally.

Essentially anyone who was a friend of the US in the cold war was a potential target. That is the keypoint in MAD, that everyone gets nuked.

So yes it was Mutual all along... Mutually Assured Destruction.