a new cheat???

[NoFearKokoro]

Recently I have heard someone accusing people using cheats to hack others computer.
He said his Norton Antivirus program received a warning that indicates some unknown virus attepted to invade his computer through Shogun network.
The funny thing is that his opponents all got antivirus program installed. ;)

The idea is why Shogun server would allow a hack or virus go through its network? The game, Shogun, should has its own transmission protocol and the messages should already packed into a format for both side of clients to recognized. Especially there is a middle barrier -Shogun Server- to act as a transmission manager.

Ok, if the hack or virus really go through the server and arrive the target client, what does Shogun main program going to do with the coming virus codes? Put it into game play or run it in the DOS or Windows environment?

We know there are lots of network problems during MP gameplay people got lag and dropped from games. And we all complaint about it. So far we can do nothing about it. But if we use it as an excuse to accuse people cheating, that's kind of childish thought in general.

Just some of my afterthoughts for the recent incidnet.

Kokoro

[The Black Ship]

Well....

All I can say is that this game does have holes in the code that allow cheating to occur. I know for a fact that the koku cheat is real, well OK maybe not for a fact... but my source is unimpeachable as far as I'm concerned.
What I think this unnamed opponent was probably referring to was his anti-virus/firewall software raising an alarm, the game seems overly laggy, then lo-and-behold his forces start a sudden and unexplained routing sequence! This has happened to me thrice in the last week too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif I feel when my ally and I outnumber our opponents by two to one at that point in the game, have the height advantage, and have a clear rock-paper-scissors advantage as per unit type that there is NO WAY WE BOTH SHOULD ROUT! That's what happened in one game! And the battle log showed that NONE of our units were defeated.

I've decided to play only friendlies in order to combat what I feel is a new and insidious "cheat". Although one time it happened was in a friendly too!

I've asked my on-line friends what we can do to prove cheating, but no one has come up with anything. How bout you guys? Anyway you can think of to show foul-play? Or does everyone feel I'm being paranoid?

Flame away if you dare, but I'm sure if it's real you'll have it happen to you too.



------------------
Niger Navis Navis Sesquiculus ShipOfFear

[ShaiHulud]

Not paranoia, unless it's general!
I recently played a 2v2 against two Fears with a partner I don't know. I was routed out and watched the rest of the battle unfold. To my shock (and JstFeared's, too!) his army, which with his partners was surrounding my partner's few troops) completely routed before any contact. This included his WM Taisho and another WM he had left. As I'd watched them approach and rout for no reason all I could say was "What the Hell?"
That same nite, in a previous game (3v3) all but ONE of us was frozen waiting for deployment while the last player moved his troops and attacked!
We couldn't conclude that a cheat was occuring but when things go bad in a peculiar manner one does wonder....

------------------
Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[NoFearKokoro]

For people as not-so-active players who only play after school/work, I don't see any reason they will use cheats unless they REALLY concern about their ranking in EA's ladder system. You agree? ;-)

Due to the poor network quality last week, I got dropped a lot in MP games. From experience, I have learned to hit many "T"'s to prevent dropping when the red warning countdown starts. Maybe that was the hacking signals send thru the network and arrive to others system I guess. hehe...

Ok, let's assume there is no cheats exist in this system (although I also have doubt too) and let's play some psychology games:
There are some lower ranked people often got beaten by higher ranked players in games. Maybe these lower ranked players got routed many times without any logical reason so they started to study those higher ranked people's strategies and shopping patterns. These strategies or shopping techniques may trigger some of the unknown winning factors and can rout people without any logical reason. (We all have experienced that in gameplays.)

Finally, the lower ranked people could beat higher ranked people sometime by simulating strategies and shopping paterns they have leraned from experiences. Now the higher ranked people got worries. They now more concered about the issue of cheating although themselves were been accused cheating by other players. Is this sounds familiar? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I was just saying if there is no evidence to indicate cheating exist, I would just think that they got great teamwork or blame the poor network quality instead of saying people cheating. I would rather let EA to worry about the cheating issues. I myself would just play friendly games only like you guys do. No ranks, no worries. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Kokoro

[Link(Micke)San]

Hi...
The rout cheat is out there.....
I have had units 120 size 4-5h routing when they where out of action on there way to flank an charging line.
Even had cavs,monks etc etc (120) standing waiting,no enemy in sight.....just starts to run.
So the game is bugged like hell or there is a cheat.

------------------
May the honour be with you all....
-LinkSan

[Rob]

I'm not going to say too much, other than to confirm that the 'koku cheat' does exist. However, it is not 'part of the game', like the single-player strategy mode cheats. As far as I know, there are NO battle-mode cheat codes. The 'rout cheat' sounds like an urban myth to me, but since I respect the views of those players posting to this thread, I may have to reconsider my view.

I have seen plenty of false accusations before, even from reputable players, which have later turned out to be mistakes. Don't presume that because you lost a game due to bad luck that your opponent was cheating. I've never personally witnessed this cheat myself, so I can't judge whether it is true or not.

As for the 'virus' being trasmitted via Shogun, there was a post about this in Editing/Mods/Patches a few weeks ago. I personally believe it is a false alarm. It may be true that some anti-virus software detects a virus (I believe it is connected to the log files), but I am not concerned about this. If you do find any 'viruses' in your Shogun files then report it to EA. It may be possible that something innocent in the log files resembles a virus and can trigger virus scanners. This is just my personal theory though, not any official statement.

------------------
MizuRob Hojo
Honour to clan Takiyama

[Whitey]

the rout cheat is not a new thing...

I was complaining about this three good months ago online...suddenly my Taisho would go running off into the even though

a) It was WM
b) It was full-strength
c) It was 'Quite Tired'
d) It was not under fire or in melee

when I had this happen when my taisho was in a Musketeer unitI thought that it could just be the wimpy peasents running for the hell of it - but It happened too regularly.

just a thought but this has only happened to me when I have been joining someone elses game...has anyone been on the recieving end while hosting ???

[Magyar Khan]

ur right and luckily we have recorded it. remember the Shadowkill challenge on me. In our 2nd game i deployed my mongol army. when retreating from an ambush 2 complete units of warrior monks honour 2 or 3 i think, 60 men / unit routed when still complete and maybe quiet tired and under some -small- fire. It is recorded by Obake who was the referee and writer of the story. him and myself made some screenshots of this happening in progress. so if obake is ready with writing we all can see it. and it was no cheat, i think it is some bug.

------------------
http://home-4.worldonline.nl/%7Et543201/web-mongol/mongol-images/mongolsmiley.gif Quote Although the enemy moves fast, a mongol arrow will kill him at last[/QUOTE]

[ShaiHulud]

I have a theory on seemingly untoward routs.
I've read that the presence of an enemy between your unit and your Taisho damages morale. Also, it has been noted that being able to see the Taisho has morale effect.
Thus, it seems that a unit may have cause to rout even tho uninvolved in actual combat.
Note that when sending units forward or flanking, ALONE, their morale will drop solely from being too far forward.


------------------
Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[ShadowKill]

you know magy when i saw that happening i thought you did that yourself to pull them away from the missle attack. but i must tell you it sure was funny to see them leave the fight http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif by the way thou's were my monks you were useing I paid them off before the fight http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif just wish i had the koku to get them to fight against you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

http://www.geocities.com/peacekeeper316/CShadow.jpg

[Magyar Khan]

i just thought that i didnt need them against u, thats why

------------------
http://home-4.worldonline.nl/%7Et543201/web-mongol/mongol-images/mongolsmiley.gif Quote Although the enemy moves fast, a mongol arrow will kill him at last[/QUOTE]

[ShadowKill]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

http://www.geocities.com/peacekeeper316/CShadow.jpg

[Erado San]

Some observations:

The Rout Cheat is not a cheat. I have seen it happen, against players who I know don't cheat. There may be a way to trigger a rout by using the same methods as used in the koku cheat, but I doubt it.

The Koku cheat is real. It is not a cheat built in the game. I know CA are looking into this, but everybody who knows how this cheat works will agree, that whatever CA do, there will be other ways to create these cheats.

The Virus warning. I dunno what triggered norton AV to sound the alarm, but I also know that EA's server is not involved. Once you enter a battle, the server is no longer in between. The players are connected directly (peer to peer) without further intervention of the server. So the server doesn't allow viruses to pass, because the 'virus' goes directly from one player to another. Also, Ea's server can never provide a system for stopping this.
But I doubt that it really is a virus.

[solypsist]

I suppose it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with an online tool that just accesses the EA Top 100 Players list directly and puts your name at the top without you ever having to play a real game!

[BakaGaijin]

Sadly. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

I've seen the Quake incarnation of Team Fortress die because of cheaters (John Carmack, I will have your head!), and I really hope that the same doesn't happen to Shogun before I get a chance to really immerse myself in the multiplayer.

At least Shogun has good single player. =/

[NoFearKokoro]

Hey BakaGaijin,

I used to be one of the good Quake2 players. However, there were a lot of online cheats and bots exist and finally took out the entire flavor of the game; so I quit and now play Shogun instead http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif . In my opinion, the cheats and bots can be created by other programmers if the source code is available to public for modification purpose. That is the reason why Quake I/II/III and UnReal got so many cheat codes around.
In my assumption, shogun is somehow not as popular as Quake series (and UnrealTourny) and their souce code seems not available for public; and therefore, the odd to have cheat is much smaller than Quake and RT unless the cheat is from EA itself. I am not accusing EA programmers do MP cheat code; I am just saying that normal players like us shouldn't have the ability to create cheat code if we don't have the source code in hand. Just my guess... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Kokoro

[barocca]

I have had 3 units rout for no apparent reason, they were trying to flank my opponent, they had just come out of a forest on yamato on my opponents flank
ie:-facing sideays on the map,
my opponent brought a unit of No-Dachi out of the forest in front of them,
and they routed!

However, as my opponent was a clan mate we discussed the event after the game, and he had a unit hiding in a forest on the far side of the map - meaning they were directly BEHIND my men - although miles away!

Perhaps, even though I can't see the enemy unit, shogun is adding in the peanlty for being flanked or having enemy to the rear?
perhaps that solves my event,

But still does not explain 'rout events' were there are definately no enemy units behind you!

[wigwam86]

there is also a glitch in the game where if ur men recoil off the edge of the map, no matter how strong or how much moral they have, they will rout instantly. weird eh?

[Rob]

Post Deleted

I have deleted a post from this thread which gave details of a method of using the koku cheat. We don't mind discussion of cheating issues, but this post contained information which could assist people in cheating. I know it was posted with the 'for educational purposes only' disclaimer, but in my opinion it is best not to make these kinds of details any more widely known than they are already.

I can assure you that DT and EA are already aware of this problem - I have had personal correspondence with them about it. Please don't post details of cheating methods in public, since it can only assist those people who might wish to cheat. I don't want to stop debate of cheating issues, but I don't want to see information posted here which will make it easier for people to cheat.

[UglyJun]

ok i wont post it again i do remember the rules i just couldnt shut up any longer sorry ok wont happen again

[wigwam86]

has to koku cheat been worked out so it can't be done again?

[UglyJun]

"quote"
I can assure you that DT and EA are already aware of this problem - u must be joking they might know about it but r not doin nothing ,this hacks been out for longer then shogun has so why if the new didnt they do anything about it i tell u why THEY CANT!!!! so is this an EA DT sponserd bored or what r u going to censor my next post that shows whats realy going on too??? i know we have rules but i am not standing bye while every 1 is beeing F.u.ck.e.d over by some cheats and EA"S refusal to admitt or do somthing if its possible!!!

[solypsist]

whoah. talk about a split personality thing going on here....

[UglyJun]

solypsist at leats i got a personality hehe
maybe even 2 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
have u got anything elso to contribute to this disscusion ???
and yes it was my post that was deleted and i hope it was for the right reason,and not just to cover up!!

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Jun, I'm serious. Cut that out.

You're not helping anyone by insulting EA/DT/CA, much less by insulting the Dojo's administration. When was anyone motivated to do anything by pointless whining?

STW's multiplay is peer-to-peer. That means that the EA server is not involved: any piece of code that fixes the cheat has to be in every player's computer. That means patches. And we all know 1.13 isn't out yet: it's logically impossible for EA to release a patch before they release a patch. (Note: Ignore this paragraph if you know the problem *is* with EA's server . I don't know what Jun posted in that deleted message, and I don't want to find out.)

So, we need to wait. Again. I know you're all getting fed up with it (I'm too), but accept that you are not able to do anything about it. And I'm dead sure everyone, that is everyone on this board would rather have a patch that fixes the cheat later than a patch that doesn't sooner.

So, Jun, others. Try to approach this rationally: it's only a game. If you need to let off some steam, go beat up newbies in friendly games, or whatever you do. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
"Never, youths, however wretched, / Nor in future, upgrown heroes, / Whether you have large possessions, / Or are poor in your possessions, / In the course of your lifetime, / While the golden moon is shining, / May you woo a golden woman, / Or distress yourselves for silver, /For the gleam of gold is freezing, / Only frost is breathed by silver."
-The [I]Kalevala, Poem XXXVIII, verses 241-250

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 01-22-2001).]

[Devil's Advocate]

Ok. Those of you with extra koku and are honourable... I have a mortgage...

Thanks in advance,
DA.

[UglyJun]

well i didnt make it personal untill solyphist little dig so i return the favor u got a prob with that???


[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 01-22-2001).]

[Plant_head]

hmmm... I saw a thread on the .com forum site that ended in an argument where it got really personal. runined the entire forum I thought, certainly made me more hesitant about posting anything there.

Anssi is right "So, we need to wait. Again. I know you're all getting fed up with it (I'm too), but accept that you are not able to do anything about it. And I'm dead sure everyone, that is everyone on this board would rather have a patch that fixes the cheat later than a patch that doesn't sooner.

" except for the beating up Newbies bit.

[Devil's Advocate]

Look, I'd settle for any information regarding the current exchange rate of koku.

The rulebook really sucks on this point.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Originally posted by Jun Tokugawa:
Quote well i didnt make it personal untill solyphist little dig so i return the favor u got a prob with that???[/QUOTE]No, none. I was talking about that earlier post of yours, where you used the "f" word (purposefully dodging the filter, mind you) and said some general bad things about various parties. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 01-22-2001).]

[UglyJun]

ok noprob i wont go into the so called "swear thingy " ok http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 01-22-2001).]

[Devil's Advocate]

Q: Were the asterixes part of the swear word? If so what do they stand for? This is very important for Scrabble:

"Hey triple word score!"

"There's no 13 letter swear word beginning with F!"

"Oh yeah go tell the Dojo."

[Plant_head]

LOL http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Dwimmerlaik]

Good grief...LOL

------------------
To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/ff4summon/indra.gif

[Link(Micke)San]

Hey all.......
I had a 3v3 the other day...with moral set off and what happens............A CAV ARCHER RUNS(full unit)!!!!!!!!!!! hehe buggely bug http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
May the honour be with you all....
-LinkSan

[FeartheolD]

there are cheats out there There is also ways to cheat.

All you need to know is a little about TCP/IP

and have the right programs Loaded.

Now I am not going to tell you where to find the programs that help you cheat.

And I assure you I do not cheat.

But I dont know how to find out who is cheating but I can find out their IP and If I find that there Has been a Back Orifice attack on my computer from that IP again then the sad looser wont know what happened to their machine because I will release the Mother of all Suckers on their machine.

Well about this nonsense about Virus attacks.

The only attack I have had and I have a couple is by Back Orifice.

For You Internet Newbies out their BO allows the user to take control of various parts and programs on a host machine.

And no you dont have to go through the EA server.

If you run a program that detects the IP of users connected to you you can find out all the computers connected to you.

Once the IPs are know then the dishonourable sends out BO to the machines connected.

I think who ever is doing plays a few games and finds out the IP of the players he is playing against.

Then sends out the BO extension, when they play again all they do is use their imagination and do their naughty stuff.

I think that some people have been doing it while other games are going on lets see this is what I think has been going on.

Player A plays Player B and sends across BO after the game.

Player B then plays another player, Player C,

During the game A uses BO then sits back and waits till the end of the game and watches Player B accuse player C of Cheating.

So some sick f***er gets his rocks off by watching to players that were friendly accuse each other of cheating..


Beware BO exists get protection. Use BOsheild
enter BOsheild into any search engine.

Better safe than sorry.

BO was rife in Homeworld. It also exists in Shogun and some bugger is trying to destroy the game. Dont let them Get protection.

------------------
http://feartheold.homestead.com/files/fear_the_old.gif
Keep you exits clear and your needles clean

[barocca]

I think it would be wise to turn off virus scanners while playing shogun,
The scanner may be examining anything that comes down the wire, and may be interfering with the smooth running of shogun.

If you have all the updates for windows from microsoft AND file and printer sharing disabled it would be very unlikely that someone could send you a virus while you are playing shogun.


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 01-28-2001).]

[FeartheolD]

BOsheild is not a virus protector. Back Orifice is not a virus.

It is a program that prevents that specific program Back Orifice being placed onto your computer.

If you are receiving data from a remote computer you can recieve BO unless you are looking for that program.

------------------
http://feartheold.homestead.com/files/fear_the_old.gif
Keep you exits clear and your needles clean

[solypsist]

whoa. that just scared me enough to never want to multiplay again.

[barocca]

An Urban Myth in the Making

BO(Back Orifice) cannot just be 'sent' to your computer, without your permission.

No matter how good a person is with TCP/IP, they cannot run any apllication on your system, or edit any files without being given permission to do so.

Simply playing Shogun does not give any application other than Shogun the rights to 'write' to your hard disk.

BO has to be run to be installed. You have to choose to run it, or the program sent to you or downloaded by you that contains the Back Orifice code. Or the Back Orifice executable itself.

BO can be packaged with legitimate software, attached to any program or file, or run all by itself (it's own executable).
But BO must be run to install,
BO has to edit the registry, and it can't do that just 'dumped' on the disk.

BO Must be RUN to Install

For your peace of mind!

1. - Turn File and Print sharing OFF, this makes your hard drives invisible to the Internet.

2. - Download all the critical updates from microsoft. There are bug fixes and security fixes in these update.

3. - Don't open any email attatchements from people you do not know or trust.

4. - Don't download and run programs without getting your virus scanner to check them.

5. - Most commonly windll.dll is the library file attatched to Back Orifice.
If you have this file on your system DO NOT delete it, it is just a library file. You'll have to find the actual server file to be secure.

6. - The virus scanner's on the market CAN detect Back Orifice resident on your system.
Fire up your Virus Scanner and let it go to work.

If you want to check you have not already infected yourself, and you don't have a virus scanner,
Download BO-Shield ONLY from here.
http://www.sg1.net/security/boshield.htm

DOWNLOAD BO-SHIELD FROM HERE ONLY
These guys are the authors.
I have download supposedly legit copies of BO-Shield from several other servers.
The files are different internally! The code has been altered.
I would consider any other source of BOShield suspect!

other sources of information
http://www.nwinternet.com/~pchelp/bo/bo.html
http://www.nwinternet.com/~pchelp/bo/bobasics.htm

This is an Urban Myth in the making
You do not need to have your virus scanner running when playing Shogun, it consumes resources and can interfere with game play.

If you want piece of mind follow the six steps above, run your virus scanner after you have been playing online and set your virus scanner to do a check every boot.

But turn the damn thing off when you play Shogun.

Do some research guys - before you try and flame me!

------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[barocca]

One more note,
back orifice Shows up in the Sinfo process display window!

For information on Sinfo(freeware) go to my site, and check the Performance Guide-/-Usefull Utilities section.
http://www.geocities.com/shade571/


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 01-29-2001).]

[Rob]

I think the points raised by Barocca are fair and accurate. It's not really my place to tell people what anti-virus software to use or how to use it, but I would agree that it would be wrong to run a virus scanner purely to protect against an alleged 'virus' transmitted over Shogun multiplayer games. That's not to say that you shouldn't use a virus scanner; there are plenty of malicious viruses out there and it is usually a wise precaution to have a virus scanner check your system frequently. I certainly wouldn't want to say 'don't use a virus scanner' only for someone to post here a week later that they just got a virus after I had told them not to use a scanner.

I think it's highly unlikely that any kind of virus is being transmitted over Shogun multiplayer games. There are a lot of red herrings being thrown up here - virus scanners and Back Orifice for example. None of these have anything to do with STW, so it's wrong to draw any connection between them. If your virus scanner is detecting viruses than it's likely that the infection came from somewhere else, not Shogun.

I don't want this to turn into an urban myth that frightens people away from playing online. I've been playing online for several months and have never seen any viruses as a result. I'm sure the same is true of almost everyone else. There seems to be some genuine confusion over certain issues, particularly the 'rout bug/cheat'. Again, I'm sure that there's an innocent explanation for it and that blaming things such as Back Orifice is simply jumping to conclusions without any proof.

Remember, anyone can get viruses, from any number of different sources. Following basic security practices - don't run applications from untrusted sources, regularly check for viruses etc. should be enough to prevent virus infection. This is basic common sense and doesn't really have anything to do with STW in particular. As I've said before, I don't believe STW is used to transmit viruses and so following ordinary precautions should be enough.

[FeartheolD]

I agree with all that you say.

But do not brush BO aside

Yes It does have to install

But still if some one sends it to you computer and it is opened.

No matter how then it is installed.

All I am saying is Take care make sure no one is trying to put that little beast on your machine.

BOsheild is a tiny program and it only checks for BO better safe than sorry.




------------------
http://feartheold.homestead.com/files/fear_the_old.gif
Keep you exits clear and your needles clean

[Ai-jin]

confussed..
i dont understand how anyone can send a virus over the ea online playing servers. Arent all viruses sent via emails??? or files????

Ai-jin

[ElmarkOFear]

I always make my pc wear a rubber to prevent infection while I am getting *%$#'d on the battlefield with numerous partners! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I am just a Shogun floozy I guess! bwahahaha Elmarko OF Fearful Ways

[barocca]

I'm not knocking BO!

No files can be sent via the EAplay severs.

A hacker cannot put anything on your hard drive UNLESS you have file and print sharing turned On.

Turn Sharing Off!
Right click "network neighbourhood"
Select "properties" from the list that appears.
Select "file and print sharing"
Uncheck the boxes.
Hit OK
(( ! NEXT - optional !
select all instances of netbios from the "network components" list of protocols and services,
remove them. - ! end optional ! ))
Now hit ok at the bottom of the box,
You will be prompted to re-boot
Re-boot.

Your Hard Drives Are Now Invisible to the Internet.

Done. - No-one can put anything on your hard drive.

To Test You have done everything correctly.
Go Here http://grc.com/default.htm
scroll down and hit the big "Shields Up" button.
scroll down and hit the "Test My Shield" button.

IF you have done (both steps) as I suggest above your results should be
1.
Your Internet port 139 does not appear to exist!
One or more ports on this system are operating in FULL STEALTH .
2.
Unable to connect with NetBIOS to your computer.

Then run "Probe Ports"
IF you have followed (both) the steps above you will recieve a mix of Closed and Stealth.
This is fine and acceptable.

However,
IF you want more security, go here http://grc.com/su-fixit.htm
and here http://grc.com/su-bondage.htm
(Heavy reading, and some skill required)

Now if want to clog your resources with any utilities, feel free.
I won't and I don't.



------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Ai-jin]

Thank you Barocca for that info.

Now I hope everyone uses your info and we all can now play safe and the accusations of viruses being sent around comes to an end. This game is great and I hope all hostilities come to an end.

Thank you again Barocca for sharing your knowledge.

Honor to you
Ai-jin

[FeartheolD]

Thank you again Barocca. You are never to old to learn. You learn something new every day. I have gone to the site you have mentioned and I am now well secure thx, I never knew about that site.

Thank you very much I love to feel safe it makes me feel warm inside.

I hate Back Orifice I know the damage it can do.

------------------
http://feartheold.homestead.com/files/fear_the_old.gif
Keep you exits clear and your needles clean

[Didz]

Barocca,

Thanks for making that clear.

Just for the record is there any way of telling whether BO has been installed on your PC?

[barocca]

To make sure you don't have Back Orifice installed on your machine,

Run a virus checker, such as macafee's or nortons.
They will detect instances of BO.

Or
Follow FearTheOlds recommendation and
Download BO-Shield ONLY from here. http://www.sg1.net/security/boshield.htm

1.- Install it, it will create an icon in your system tray,
2.- Go and find where it has installed to
( c:/programs/boshield/ )
and drag the executable to your desktop - windows will create a shortcut instead.
3.- Now before you run Shogun Right click on the little BO-Shield icon in your system tray, and select exit to close BO-Shield.

If you don't want BO-Shield to load with Windows every time you boot.
Right click on the little BO-Shield icon in your system tray, select settings from the pop-up menu and you can safely check the uninstall box,
this Does Not Unistall BO-Shield, it merely unloads it from memory, and disables the 'run on windows load' feature.

When ever you want to, just run BO-Shield from the shortcut created on your destop in step 2.
The program occupies 56k ! of hard drive space - very tiny!

Thank You FearTheOld for telling us of this neat little utility.

------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[barocca]

I can't stress strongly enough,
Download BO-Shield ONLY from here. http://www.sg1.net/security/boshield.htm

I just ran my monthly full heuristic virus scan of all the files on my system, and one of the copies of BO-Shield that i downloaded from a search engine recommendation has CIH encoded in it!
(i had deleted it, it was in the recycle bin!)

SO
Download BO-Shield ONLY from here. http://www.sg1.net/security/boshield.htm

This file passed the meanest scan I could run on it.
It's Clean.


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[NoFearKokoro]

Thank you barocca for giving us so much information. They are the basic knowledge and are very useful against all viruses.

I just searched my entire hard drives and didn't find the windll.dll file. (Thanks God =) ). Guess I don't have the BO in my computer. I think my router is also providing some degree of protection from internet.

Is it possible to slowdown your connection if people know your IP address? My guess is YES. They can slow down your connection by sending lots of requests thru network to your computer (although the requests can't be go through). These requests can saturate your bandwidth and slowdown your internet connection. Hackers used this technique to attack YAHOO and MicroSoft couple months ago. So if you are using dialup network and having random IP address assigned by your ISP, the chance to get attacked by massive requests is pretty low. If you got a fixed IP address, you are more likely attacked by this kind of hacking...

[UglyJun]

look guys if u use windows i can get in with my linux box NOMATTER what security u use WAKE UP its f.u,.c.king windows we r talking about its totaly crap operating system in every way !!!!

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

Jun has strayed from the light,
and into my domain...

Jun has been contacted,
and a duel has been arranged,

There can be no quarter asked or given,

The outcome will be posted here on,

Sunday 4th February
around GMT 12:00 (noon)

------------------
http://www.stas.net/5/shadowmage/shadow.gif

[This message has been edited by TechnoMage of Shadows (edited 02-04-2001).]

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

Current Time :-
18:00 GMT (6pm-4/feb London)(5am-5/feb NSW)
(4am-5/feb QLD)

My Status :- Unhacked

Jun Status :- Missing

The challenge issued was for Jun to hack my Windows98 box, using Linux.

Specifically place or modify a file on my Windows98 system.
I would be using no defensive utilities at all, merely a port monitor to watch the festivities. I have set my system up as described in this thread.

Jun could freely use any and all means at Jun's disposal.

The goal was to test the suggestions put forward in this thread to improve security.

It has been 12 hours since Jun last contacted me.
The attempt is well overdue.
(I had several people make similar attempts at my request - they failed)


If you have disabled sharing on your Windows9x/me/nt PC,
installed the latest critical updates from Microsoft including any service packs available,
and are hosting no internet services (ftp server etc.)
then files cannot be placed or modified on your hard drive by any persons with malicious intent.

Not even Linux can log onto a machine that has no services and no shared resources.

------------------
http://www.stas.net/5/shadowmage/shadow.gif