How do you behave after the enemy routs?

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Yep - are you merciful for those poor beggars and don't exploit the game (as I've heard that AI never slaughters your units if it wins) or do you hunt them down, slaughter them like whipped dogs cut their heads and bath in their blood - MUHAHHAHAHAHA! :furious3:

[King Henry V]

I unleash my cavalry until everyone one of my enemies lies dead, their bloated corpses rotting in the sun as crows peck out their eyes and worms and insects reduce it to a few bare bones.

[Akka]

I kill as much as I can, so that I won't have to face them the next turn again.

[LittleRaven]

I have a weakness for infantry heavy armies, which makes my Pontus games...frustrating, actually. But because of this, I'm frequently not in a position to do much head hunting. It's not like I'm going to catch them.

If I have the horses, though, by all means, kill away...

[Doug-Thompson]

Pursuit is a fine art. I've spent hours in custom battles, perfecting and refining pursuit techniques. Nothing gives me more pleasure in this game than a well-conducted pursuit that leaves none of my enemies alive. I've often given ground when it wasn't strictly necessary so that fewer of my enemies will escape after they finally break.

[edyzmedieval]

I fry and eat them. ~D

I pursue them till every soldier dies. SO I won't have to face them again. ~D

[professorspatula]

I pursue the occasional enemy, perhaps the enemy's stronger units, but I generally end the battle as soon as the option pops up. I think the AI needs all the help it can get in a campaign, and killing all its men after it loses a battle is a bit unfair as it can't do that to your own men.

[Dutch_guy]

I always pursue the enemy , always strong units first then the weaker ones.
To bad you can't capture the enemy , I loved that feature from MTW..

:balloon2:

[Celt Centurion]

I pursue the occasional enemy, perhaps the enemy's stronger units, but I generally end the battle as soon as the option pops up. I think the AI needs all the help it can get in a campaign, and killing all its men after it loses a battle is a bit unfair as it can't do that to your own men.


From Celt Centurion,

I recall seeing the AI chasing my men down and killing them as they routed, and being unable to do anything about it.

When I have the enemy routing, I usually turn my cavalry loose on them chasing the ones farther out, and then work back toward where the biggest pile of bodies is. I take my phalanx units out of phalanx formation and send them running after enemy phalanx units. Sometimes, they catch up and cut them down enough for the cavalry to finish off.

My preference is to use cavalry to chase down archers first, peltasts and slingers next, and whatever is left afterward. I rarely overtake a horse, and as such rarely chase them unless in the case of an enemy General. I will then continue chasing the General anyway in the hope that he will turn and my cavalry catch him then.

An enemy killed while running away will not attack me later. Given the choice of totally killing every one of a unit is preferable to a few getting away and those surviving to be the "core" of a retrained unit. If I kill them all, the unit won't be around to retrain will it? It's better to make the enemy train a totally new unit rather than the lesser expense of retraining one. I make it a point to make them train LOTS of totally new units.

I certainly don't want them coming back later with a lot of retrained units.

What I would like to see is being able to "loot" the defeated army after the defence of a city, or for that matter, out in the field. Think about it. Kill some 1300 bad guys, and empty their pockets for money and take their armor as well. That could offset the cost of retraining your own losses, and perhaps even upgrade your armour. In a town with only a blacksmith, it could provide armour to those who didn't have it at all.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Siris]

I'll run them down everytime, especailly if I have calverly.

If I do not run them down & massacre them, they will only reform (retrain, or just regroup with another army) & march on me again, forcing my men to fight the same cowards another day.

So I show no mercy for the A.I. in the past has shown me none, as mentioned above, running down my men & slaughtering them.

I strike the larger units first, the more men dead, the better, then I just move down from there.

[Divinus Arma]

Go for the quickest and the furthest first, chase down cavalry with lighter cavalry, then go for the skirmishers, then mop up the bulk.

[zukenft]

yeah...loot would be a great addition to the campaign, especially barbarian armies.
Currently, though, all the loot in battle goes straight to the soldier's pocket. Nothing left for the general...

[Conqueror]

It really depends on many factors:

- I often let them run, especially if I have forced a "fight to death" situation on the campaign map (either surrounding the enemy stack or they ran out of movement points and can't retreat) which means that routed units will be disbanded after the battle and will not rise against me anymore.

- Brigands I tend to destroy more often than the troops of other factions or regional "rebels", because I really have no respect for the bandit scum.

- If I am feeling vengeful/annoyed/angry at a particular faction/army, then I will do my best to destroy them to every last man. I will give absolutely no mercy to those troops of mine that betray my empire ( = bribed by an enemy diplomat).

- If the enemy is going to survive (not disband after battle) and they have particularly dangerous or annoying units, such as wardogs, elephants, etc. then I will try to destroy these specific units but allow the other ones to get away.

- If there is a pressing need to eliminate this force ASAP due to the situation on the campaign map, then I will pursue and kill as many as I can.

[nameless]

I always go for total annihlation I mean why not? First off, your men get experience from the slaughter and second, you don't have to deal with them in the next round. In most cases that I have encountered in RTR 6.0 the greeks kept sending in stack army after stack army at me with no end in site.

Once they start routing I send in the Cavalry and everything I have to mop it up as best as I can.

[Deus ret.]

I pursue the occasional enemy, perhaps the enemy's stronger units, but I generally end the battle as soon as the option pops up. I think the AI needs all the help it can get in a campaign, and killing all its men after it loses a battle is a bit unfair as it can't do that to your own men.
Yep, same for me. Hunting down each one of the enemy's units gives you an unfair advantage.

The AI does kill your routing units, but ends the battle when all your units rout (=when the message would show up). Thus, I deem it unbecoming to systematically wipe out every last enemy unit; additionally, the mopping up consumes much less time. Battles have become significantly shorter since.

Army routing in MTW was far better represented. Firstly, units retained their defence, rendering it likely for some of them to escape the battlefield; secondly, those struck down'd have been captured, "malifying" your general if he killed 'em off too often. This defninitely should be changed again.

[Taurus]

Depends how I'm feeling at the time or whether a faction has annoyed me or whether I need to tactically kill them all so I don't have to fight them again.

[professorspatula]

From Celt Centurion,

I recall seeing the AI chasing my men down and killing them as they routed, and being unable to do anything about it.




There's routing during battle, and there's routing post-battle. During battle, yes the AI chases routers, as do I - that's fair game. Post-battle routing is when every unit on the opponent's side is routing, so the battle is automatically won and the option appears to end the battle immediately. The AI can't do this, the battle just ends for them, and if you're lucky your men escape to fight another day. You on the other hand can wipe them all out. Which is a tad unfair, but each to their own.

[Craterus]

I pursue the occasional enemy, perhaps the enemy's stronger units, but I generally end the battle as soon as the option pops up. I think the AI needs all the help it can get in a campaign, and killing all its men after it loses a battle is a bit unfair as it can't do that to your own men.

Yeah, I never thought of this. Usually, I chase till all are dead.

But now, for more of a challenge, I will let them run free, to trouble me another day. Except for Romans, fleeing Romans make for a better hunt than anything else. Oh yeah, and Egyptians must die too.

[Muska Burnt]

i let one man go so he can tell the tale

[pezhetairoi]

I pursue and cut them all down. Pursuit is an integral part of the battle, killing them means I don't have to see their faces again, and anyway, experience is always a useful thing for my cavalry.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Gads we're a bloodthirsty lot! :hanged: :hanged: :hanged: :hanged: :end:

THink of the children.....






Seamus

[Norxis]

Yeah I usually kill them all (or try to), which is why I have a couple of light cavalry with every army. Equites are great for this, and they can usually chase down the enemy generals heavy cavalry unit which is good too. But after seeing some of this post information about what the computer does, maybe I'll stop slaughtering too (unless I need/want an heroic victory)

[SMZ]

Well, historically... (since that seems to be the rage - lol)

... spearing the enemy in the back when they turned to run was the fun part, and until the age of chivalry, such an opportunity was rarely passed up... even then, it was pretty standard procedure... very few commanders would allow an enemy to run off to trouble them another day. Rarely indeed would a general be suitably impressed by the others fortitude, honor, etc to allow them to quit the field in safety. Occasionally, to avoid over-extension, this might be done - but by and large, the loss of the battle by one side marked the begginings of a "great slaughter"...

If you're concerned about fairness to the computer, there's a simple solution. After a loss, disband any troops which you feel would not have been able to escape. That's easily figured out. If they had light cavalry - get rid of most or all of your infantry. If some of your heavy cavalry were close to that light cavalry - get rid of them too, etc, etc. If they were a bunch of plodding phalanxes... keep your men.

[nameless]

... spearing the enemy in the back when they turned to run was the fun part, and until the age of chivalry, such an opportunity was rarely passed up... even then, it was pretty standard procedure... very few commanders would allow an enemy to run off to trouble them another day. Rarely indeed would a general be suitably impressed by the others fortitude, honor, etc to allow them to quit the field in safety. Occasionally, to avoid over-extension, this might be done - but by and large, the loss of the battle by one side marked the begginings of a "great slaughter"...


If I remember correctly there was something that said that Romans tend to allow an opening for the enemy to run as an enemy that is willing to fight to the death will cause casualties on your side.

Though most of the texts I've read usually point out that the armies that lose usually get wiped out though there are still survivors such as Scipio taking with him survivors of the massacre of Cannae to fight Hannibal and so forth. Then there are captured foes but those are for ransoming, especially if they were wealthy people.

Though for Chivarley it wasn't as big as it was then but was still around. Caesar allowing a Gaulic tribe which betrayed him to go in peace in respect of their former alliance and the Parthian Troops who massacred several cohorts which opened their ranks when the remaining 20 legionaries charged them in a suicide run out of respect for their bravery.

[SMZ]

oh yes, don't surround the enemy and force them to fight! Even in game a unit will fight to the death in that situation (try it sometime - box a unit on four sides and attack, they'll fight to the death just like on city walls) But once the foe starts running away thru that convenient gap you've left, casting away weapons and armor so they can run faster, etc... that's the time to quench your weapons thirst... and the Romans did it just as avidly as anybody else...

I agree however, certain generals would let the enemy go on certain occasions due to their personal values... by and large however, worries about one's own casualites or concerns about getting spread out in extremely hostile territory would be the only prevention. Another possible case is that some generals permit a beaten foe to leave because that defeated mentality can infect other armies which the survivors join. But once again - those are exceptions.

You bring up a good point with ransom - I really wish that aspect was in the game... that and looting dead soldiers...

[womble]

I rather wish there was a "general pursuit" command for when the enemy breaks. Yes, most of the time I will pursue to the map limits. Less often with brigands (or if they're not going to reform because I've taken them past the limit of no return, or they're out of moves) because they tend to melt away once defeated.

I so rarely lose to the AI on the tactical map that the advantage I gain over an AI which can't pursue my army is miniscule. Though lately it's taken to accepting the first battle then dong a runner when I start maneuvering to get to grips... That's *really* annoying. Especially when I don't bother pursuing and the encounter is declared a "Draw" (only happened the once, I assure you :-).

[PseRamesses]

In STW I beheaded everyone to spare them the shame of defeat.
In MTW (due to chivalry) I never pursued.
In RTR I cut them down to the last man.

[King Henry V]

When I'm really bloodthirsty is when a garrison sallies out to attack my troops. I don't like sieges, They're costly and long.

[Geoffrey S]

I generally chase them down; it's also what was done in the old days. The most casualties in a battle would usally occur at this point, when battle turned to slaughter.

[gardibolt]

Kill, Baby, Kill!

Faster, Pussycat, Kill! Kill!


Yeah, Exterminating the routing forces is satisfying and seems true to life to me. This ain't the Age of Chivalry.

[nameless]

You bring up a good point with ransom - I really wish that aspect was in the game... that and looting dead soldiers...

Yeah, it should go like after the battle if you took out the enemy general, there is a chance that he recover from his wounds and is captured. From there you can negotiate(with a diplomat) with that general/family member's faction whether or not they are willing to pay the ransom you set for them. If they reject, then you can either kill him, make him an ancillary and add his characteristics to the general that beated him if he was there at the fight, or give him a chance to prove himself worthy to your faction and give him a post or adopt him.

Or even better yet, if you captured the faction heir or the faction leader imagine the ransom ~D That or that should allow you to have more weight on the table such as calling in region disputes and such.

As for looting, yeah, they should after a battle the amount of enemy soldiers killed by you should have 30% of their costs added to you(Taking their armor and weaponry and selling it and If any of you played Command and Conquer Generals: Zero hour in which the GLA has a bounty in which they gain a certain percentage of the killed unit's cost.)

[Celt Centurion]

Equites are great for this, and they can usually chase down the enemy generals heavy cavalry unit which is good too.

Good point there, but later on in the game, equites get fewer and fewer. I have not yet figured out how to merge 13 from one squadron, and 14 from another, and yet 27 from a third to make one full strength squadron of 54. When they get down below 50% strength, I have tended to discharge them. I really do not like using three unit cards to carry what would fit into one unit that cannot be retrained.

I used to try to use the "obsolete" Roman Units to hunt down Rebels, but have not played as a Roman in a while. What I am considering doing, is to retrain them by upgrading their armour, and putting them back on that detail.

Strength and Honor.

Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

There's routing during battle, and there's routing post-battle. During battle, yes the AI chases routers, as do I - that's fair game. Post-battle routing is when every unit on the opponent's side is routing, so the battle is automatically won and the option appears to end the battle immediately. The AI can't do this, the battle just ends for them, and if you're lucky your men escape to fight another day. You on the other hand can wipe them all out. Which is a tad unfair, but each to their own.


Rarely have my men escaped to fight another day;

but;

I shall endeavor to do the noble thing, and resist the temptation to finish off routing armies.

Hopefully, I will see them "drop dead" when I return to the Campaign map.

Thank you for the challenge to be "civilized".

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[SMZ]

you drag the 13 strength unit tab button onto the 14 unit tab button... or vice versa... etc

just drag and drop :)

[HarunTaiwan]

Historically, you would capture the enemy and "put them under the yoke" which meant they had to symbolicy bend under a yoke and then you sold them as slaves.

[womble]

"...drag the 13 strength unit tab button onto the 14 unit tab button..."

Or you can just hit M to automerge. This will rationalise your post-Marian units too, which may or may not be what you want (retraining refreshes a unit's numbers without the experience averaging that combining cards does).

[Orda Khan]

I always hunt down and kill as many routers as I can. Why let them escape?
In the BI demo only 54 stinking Romans escaped the sword. On my second attempt only 17 escaped with their lives. If I can manage to kill them all I do, there is no room for mercy

......Orda

[Celt Centurion]

you drag the 13 strength unit tab button onto the 14 unit tab button... or vice versa... etc

just drag and drop :)


Thank you so very much for that piece of information!

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

"...drag the 13 strength unit tab button onto the 14 unit tab button..."

Or you can just hit M to automerge. This will rationalise your post-Marian units too, which may or may not be what you want (retraining refreshes a unit's numbers without the experience averaging that combining cards does).


This helps too. Thank You!

Strength and Honor.

Celt Centurion

[Celt Centurion]

This is Especially for Professor Spatula,

Last night, as Selucids, I continued on to finish off Pontus (those who earlier had asked for and gotten peace several times only to attack me again a few turns later). They are now confined to Artaxarta, with a full stack inside, and I have a full stack laying siege. I expect the Faction leader to die of old age before the siege is over, and from that point will probably be facing rebels.

But that is another matter.

I said yesterday that I would restrain myself on butchering fleeing enemies.

As I said, I have about 4 patrols out there doing nothing but getting rid of rebels. Just last night, I probably fought about 20 battles doing this one task. Until yesterday, the normal end result was usually 0, sometimes a few of them getting away. My own losses were never more than 2 or 3, and usually 0.

But, last night, when the option came up to end the battle, or butcher them, I ended the battle. I could not believe it. Usually more than half of them got away! On the other hand, my casualties were still not more than 3 at any battle.

Being in "fight to the death", they all "dropped dead" when I returned to the campaign map, so I don't have to fight them again later. The largest battle with them was my 275 or so against just under 900. The result was still the same. A crushing defeat for them, as the option to end battle did not come up until they were down to about 40 men, and victory for me with very few casualties.

As I said, those rebels are pests. And their very existance standing on the road lowers my income. So they have to be gotten rid of. I am finding my "Anti Rebel Patrols" are very effective for that.

Just wanted to share with you that I am trying to do the honorable thing, but golly it's hard!

Strength and Honor.

Celt Centurion

[jimmyM]

The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters

ahem...errr...or something...dunno what just happened there, I was going to grab a twinkie bar and suddenly everything went black and there was this diabolical laughter...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I say again, GADS we are a bloodthirsty lot. Is this why the EB named themselves after the Barbarians, rather than the champions of civilization?

Seamus

[Bonusmalus]

I just kill as much as I can. The AI always ends the battle when all of my/enemy units are routing. They usually let the enemy general go away like nothing. :furious3: That's really pissing me of!!

[MerlinusCDXX]

Chase them all down...mercilessly, it's a great way to get my General's bodyguard experience, though I'll train up my other cavalry if the enemy army is large enough. To keep to a little realism I usually chase the tougher units with my General's bg, and the weaker units with other cav. :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

[Strike For The South]

KILL TOTAL WAR NOT FOR WOMEN OR WEAK MINDED :charge:

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Hunt down the little b*stards...I slaughter them to the last...even if it takes twenty minutes to follow them around the map, they all will die... :devilish:

[Uriel]

Couple of things. Just finished reading a book about roman generals by Adrian Goldsworthy. Killing routing enemies was generally encouraged but persuing them at length was not, due to the possiblility of them regrouping and counter attacking. There are numerous occasions where routing enemies regrouped and mounted a successful counter attack.

Personally, I only chase routers until I have the option to end the battle and that's it. The AI can't continue to chase me down so it seems a little unfair to do it to them. Equites, the general and (occasionally when I have them in the army) wardogs seem to be the best for chasing.

[Ciaran]

To me, pursuit isn´t that much fun, so I rarely do it (I suppose this is meant to be the situation when you can quit the battle the instant all enemy units on the field are fleeing), except against a reinforcement from an enemy city. Killing garrisons is always desirable.
If single units during a battle rout, or even the major part, then of course I pursuit, there´s no use having my men idling around - after all, I pay them and don´t do it for the kicks of it, so they can work for their money - and every kill could help later on.

[Doug-Thompson]

... it's a great way to get my General's bodyguard experience ...

That's very true. General's bodyguards make great pursuers, too.

[Garvanko]

Cut 'em down. Show no mercy. Right down to the last man.

[adamus]

I always have a unit or 2 of light cavalry to mercilasly cut down any routers - Numidian Cavalry Mercenaries are my fav unit for this. Always go for the furthest units first, then swoop back to kill the rest so none escape - take no prisoners!

I also charge the enemy when the AI attacks but then on the battle map decides it can't win and withdraws. I use my light cav to charge into the rear of enemy units, picking them off one at a time while the other units continue to withdraw. Again Numidian mercs are ace for this as they can give them a volley of javelins before plunging into the rearmost ranks! Ha ha

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I wonder if this nearly universal approach would alter if:

The AI was scripted so that if you hit "continue" against any faction once, they would do the same to you for the next 50 turns or so.

The AI was scripted to allow a routed unit that was too close to an enemy cavalry/fast mover to either: surrender (and you incur dip/econ penalties for refusing) or go bezerk.

Seamus

P.S. Maybe its just the old role-player in me (recovering thankfully), but I tend to take on a persona in this, so always doing the methodically correct (in gamesmen terms) approach of surrounding an opponent on all but one red zone and then conducting my battle so as to force a long retreat toward that gap while my cavalry mercilessly kills every single opposing soldier seems a bit horrid. Those pixels represent people, and butchery isn't always the way to go.

[The historian]

I ussually chase 'em down except if they are rebels or i'm not patient enough to do it,also i first try to kill the best units around peasants have the best chance to escape in my battles. Also the farthest units come first unless some other important unit is behind them and they are unimportant.

[Shaun]

i slaughter them all! if you leave half of them thry will just attack again.

[Edex]

kill as much as I can :)

[King Mon]

it wouldnt b right to not kill them...theyd just live terrible lives after seeing everyone else in there army slaughtered.

[gardibolt]

Yes, wouldn't want them to have Survivor's Guilt. Best to just put them out of their misery. ~D

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"For the glory of the Empire, KILL, KILL, KILL."

A cookie for the one that gets the quote.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

While smashing routing units prior to the battle's decision seems reasonable, isn't it better to let the enemy get away so that you can fight again for more experience etc.?

Seamus