Anti-war Protesters Target Wounded At Army Hospital [Archive]

Divinus Arma

08-25-2005, 09:29

ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS TARGET WOUNDED AT ARMY HOSPITAL
Wed Aug 2005 24 21:20:05 ET

Anti-war protestors besieged wounded and disabled soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, D.C, a new web report will claim!

CNSNews.com is planning to run an expose on Thursday featuring interviews with both protestors and veterans, as well as shots of protest signs with slogans like “Maimed for a Lie.”

The conservative outlet will post video evidence of the wounded veterans being taunted by protesters, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Developing late...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Oh terrific

Here we go again.

All the damn hippies trying to relive the sixties, and the idiots jumping on the bandwagon. Friggin mob we can be. Iraq is Vietnam! Soldiers get spit on and get called baby killers again!

Give me an "L"

Give me an "I"

Give me a "B"

And a "E", "R", "A", "L"

What's that spell?

Bullshit!!!!! Yaayyy! Sheehanzilla strikes again!

RAAAAAARRRRRHH!!!!!

Divinus Arma

08-25-2005, 09:39

This is silly. You blame the government, not the grunts.

Exactly.

But silly is not the word for it.

I would use words like:

Atrocious.

Disgusting.

Pathetic.

Cowardly.

Despicable.

Anti-American.

Hate-Mongering.

Misguided blame.

Bloviated Swaggering Folly.

Take your pick. They all work pretty good.

Adrian II

08-25-2005, 10:25

Exactly.

But silly is not the word for it.

I would use words like:

Atrocious.

Disgusting.

Pathetic.

Cowardly.

Despicable.

Anti-American.

Hate-Mongering.

Misguided blame.

Bloviated Swaggering Folly.

Take your pick. They all work pretty good.Ichi is right. The U.S. is becoming deeply divided over a war again, just as in the late 1960's. Even on this forum the language occasionally breaks down and arguments come in the form of four letter words and slogans.

Sjakihata

08-25-2005, 10:36

Exactly.

But silly is not the word for it.

I would use words like:

Atrocious.

Disgusting.

Pathetic.

Cowardly.

Despicable.

Hate-Mongering.

Misguided blame.

Bloviated Swaggering Folly.

Take your pick. They all work pretty good.

I wouldnt use these words for the protesters, but all of them fit the war perfectly.

Oh, and btw - what a 'uniter' Bush has become...

Al Khalifah

08-25-2005, 11:00

Sounds like you guys need another civil war to sort your country out.

King Ragnar

08-25-2005, 11:53

Cowards, i mean who would attack war vets, i mean i respect any veteran of any war because they are the only ones who have been through such things, they should round up the protesters and send them to Iraq to fight cannon fodder, because thats all they will be worthwhile for.

King Henry V

08-25-2005, 11:59

These protesters should be locked up for treason.

bmolsson

08-25-2005, 12:14

US seems to be a so violent country. It seems these poor men where safer in Iraq....... ~;)

Moros

08-25-2005, 12:33

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Give me an "L"

Give me an "I"

Give me a "B"

And a "E", "R", "A", "L"

What's that spell?

Bullshit!!!!! Yaayyy! Sheehanzilla strikes again!
no it's like this:
give me an "F"...."F"
give me an "*"...."*"
give me a "*"..."*"
gimme a "K"...."K"

what's that spell? ....."****" (X5)

Well come on all of you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again,
he got himself in a terrible jam, way down yonder in Vietnam,
put down your books and pick up a gun, we're gunna have a whole lotta fun.

CHORUS
and its 1,2,3 what are we fightin for?
don't ask me i don't give a dam, the next stop is Vietnam,
and its 5,6,7 open up the pearly gates. Well there aint no time to wonder why...WHOPEE we're all gunna die.

now come on wall street don't be slow, why man this's war a-go-go,
there's plenty good money to be made, supplyin' the army with the tools of the trade,
just hope and pray that when they drop the bomb, they drop it on the Vietcong.

CHORUS

now come on generals lets move fast, your big chance is here at last.
nite you go out and get those reds cuz the only good commie is one thats dead,
you know that peace can only be won, when you blow em all to kingdom come.
CHORUS

(spoken)- listen people i dont know you expect to ever stop the war if you cant sing any better than that... theres about 300,000 of you ******* out there.. i want you to start singing..

CHORUS

now come on mothers throughout the land, pack your boys off to vietnam,
come on fathers don't hesitate, send your sons off before its too late,
be the first one on your block, to have your boy come home in a box

CHORUS

King Ragnar

08-25-2005, 12:33

These protesters should be locked up for treason.

Killed for treason locking them up would be too nice.

Aenlic

08-25-2005, 13:17

Typical Drudge. Misrepresent the facts and stir up the faithful. Drudge would have made Goebbels very happy. ~:eek:

Are the protestors there to protest the wounded for being wounded? Or are they there to target the reasons why they were wounded. At least try to think about it before succumbing to overreactions and propaganda.

Claiming that the protestors are there to target the wounded soldiers is just as specious as claiming that one must support the war to support the troops. I support the troops. I'm a disabled vet. They're are doing their duty and doing it well. But I don't support the policies which have put them in harms way in an invasion we shouldn't have started in the first place.

Try not to be too gullible. And find a different source for information other than Drudge. He has no scruples, no honor, and no honesty. You'd get less propaganda and twisted half-truths and outright lies from an old Soviet era issue of Pravda. ~D

Ser Clegane

08-25-2005, 13:59

There we go again:

Soldiers get spit on and get called baby killers again!

These protesters should be locked up for treason.

Killed for treason locking them up would be too nice.

The typical knee jerk reactions before actually having any real information on what's happening.

No surprise here :rolleyes:

Kanamori

08-25-2005, 14:24

I don't really understand what's going on here -- I mean in this story. The protestors supposedly 'besieged' the place, but what that means seems entirely vague to me, besides the pictures of mobs that it conjures up. At any rate, if they did anything illegal, they should be given whatever sentences fit. It's nothing to get too worked up about because I think we could all agree that they represent a small portion of liberals... just pat them on the head and send them on their way with a "there, there".

Redleg

08-25-2005, 15:26

One can link the report off of the Drudge Report if one so choses - By the way I agree one must be very careful about taking anything off of Drudge as fact - its usually wise to check out the story via other sources first.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050825a.html

The Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., the current home of hundreds of wounded veterans from the war in Iraq, has been the target of weekly anti-war demonstrations since March. The protesters hold signs that read "Maimed for Lies" and "Enlist here and die for Halliburton."

If true these protestors are wrong - protest the war and the government - but holding such signs targeting the wounded is well wrong.

This site confirms that a protest is going on in front of the Hospital - but not the nature of said protest and what the signs will state

http://www.protest.net/event.cgi?ID=529380

Now this group seems to report the event different then Drudge - and if true is an honorable protest and supports the troops at the same time.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Veterans_Gather_in_Protest_111203.htm

Now here is where I think the Drudge Report and the initial link I posted are getting their viewpoint from

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1437364/posts

http://www.floodlight-findings.com/FReeps/20050701/DSCN1715.JPG

But look at the pictures carefully - it seems that the group that is doing this is like 5 or 6 people at most. Really rather pathic if you ask me

Aenlic

08-25-2005, 16:04

Gawain of Orkeny

08-25-2005, 16:51

Cowards, i mean who would attack war vets,

Well in the 60s and 70s it was quite common by more people than you would care to imagine. I bet even Kafir got a bit of it ~;) .

Ichi is right. The U.S. is becoming deeply divided over a war again

Here we go trying to compare this to Nam again. The left certainly would have you believe that. Where are the thousands marching in the streets? All they have is Cindy Sheehan who not even one serious democrat will go near and these 5 or 6 jerks outside a hospital. Deeply diveded indeed. Once more its the left who seek to divide us.

And I bet these same jerks will claim they support the troops LOL.

Redleg

08-25-2005, 17:04

Interesting, and blatantly one-sided on the part of FR. You'll notice that it's that same small group of people, including the transvestite in pink in the pictures meant to represent the protestors. Yet, reading the link on the Veterans for Peace site, it seems to have been a much larger group. I don't see any pics of the mentioned 82 year old WWII veteran in FR's pics, do you? I get the distinct impression that the protest is much more organized than that little group targetted by FR.

So far all I have seen by reading the sites and the news reports is conjecture by the far right about the efforts of the protests - and conjecture by the left on how large the protest is. Pretty much a none issue at this point. Just a few out of line individuals - trying to make a statement and going about it the wrong way.

Any fringe group can tack themselves onto a protest. If I make a sign that says "God kills innocent babies" and then go stand next to the FR group, and someone takes a picture of it; will that mean that the entire FR group thinks that "God kills innocent babies"? If I make a sign that says "Murderers" and stand with it along with others who are there to protest, does that make the entire protest about calling the wounded murderers?

Just wondering. ~D

Stating that the protestors - as a whole - are targetting the wounded is quite a leap of logic.

I see you got the point of why I posted the links and the pictures. Would you agree the statements by both sides ie the fringe groups of each - are nothing but hyperbole at this time?

Steppe Merc

08-25-2005, 17:07

Only fools target soldiers. You have protest against the higher ups, the President and the government, not the soldiers. It is one thing to protest against say a soldier that has commited a war crime (shot innocent, tortured, whatever), but it is far more logical and effective to target the government who is responsible for putting the soldiers in their position.

And since when is it treason to disagree with the government? Sure it's bad to spit on ex soldiers, but there is no proof! It's possible these people were behaving in an honorable manner.
Oh, and Red, that last articale is quite... odd. Can't they think of more original things than Pinkos? ~;)

Gertgregoor, excellent song! Go Country Joe and the Fish! ~D

And not all the people attacking soldiers were hippies, and not all hippies attacked soldiers. It's just foolish and annoying to lable everyone that attacks soldiers as hippies, especially when you mabye see one long haired person amongst them!

On thing Gawain is correct about, is that America obviously doesn't really care much about Iraq or anywhere else. It hasn't touched enough of them yet to actually want to do anything about it. There isn't much rightous outrage, only from a few people, and none from the Democrats. I think most of that is due to the sadness of today's youth, and the fact most of them aren't in danger.

Gawain of Orkeny

08-25-2005, 17:11

On thing Gawain is correct about, is that America obviously doesn't really care much about Iraq

In a recent poll it was found that most Americans major concern is ilegal imigration the war in Iraq comes in third.

I think most of that is due to the sadness of today's youth

Its todays youth who are volunteering and fighting this war. I for one take my hat off to them. :bow:

Redleg

08-25-2005, 17:13

Oh, and Red, that last articale is quite... odd. Can't they think of more original things than Pinkos? ~;)

I found it rather amusing to say the least - it must be from where Drudge scrap up his information from. And I do my scrapped - I could of done a better job of twisting the information then that.

:dizzy2:

Aenlic

08-25-2005, 17:16

Would you agree the statements by both sides ie the fringe groups of each - are nothing but hyperbole at this time?

Absolutely. But then, I've said that in more than one thread about this issue. Saying it's a shame that both sides have taken to arguing about the argument rather than discussing the actual issues. We see it with Cindy Sheehan, we see it with these protestors. Even you and I have engaged in it. The argument becomes a debate about itself. I wonder if it's just human nature.

Moros

08-25-2005, 17:34

Gertgregoor, excellent song! Go Country Joe and the Fish! ~D

I know love that song! gives me al those memories of the good old times.
aah! woodstock it almost seems like yesterday...
(yes, I know I wasn't even born ~D, a pitty tough, I would've been one hell of a hippy ~:))

Red Harvest

08-25-2005, 17:35

Redleg

08-25-2005, 17:36

Absolutely. But then, I've said that in more than one thread about this issue. Saying it's a shame that both sides have taken to arguing about the argument rather than discussing the actual issues. We see it with Cindy Sheehan, we see it with these protestors. Even you and I have engaged in it. The argument becomes a debate about itself. I wonder if it's just human nature.

I would say it is - often we get blinded to what is really going on - with our baised views on the subject. Then the hyperbole sets in.

Moros

08-25-2005, 17:40

The pathetic part here is that folks are getting so excited about an advertisement. There isn't even a report yet...just a trailer for one. Blogging at its best... where is that barf emoticon???

Targeting soldiers returning from Vietnam was stupid. Doing it now would be too. Will some do it? Probably. Some folks never learn. Target those running the show.
yes it is silly indeed, I really wonder why they do that? It's not the soldiers who start the war, it's the government. But I also find it silly to make all this **** about it I mean just ignore those 5 guys, it can't be that hard.

(reminds me of another song, soldiers who wanna be heroes.... ~:))

Redleg

08-25-2005, 17:44

yes it is silly indeed, I really wonder why they do that? It's not the soldiers who start the war, it's the government. But I also find it silly to make all this **** about it I mean just ignore those 5 guys, it can't be that hard.

(reminds me of another song, soldiers who wanna be heroes.... ~:))

I wonder if it was this one

The Marching Band came down along Main Street
The Soldier Blues fell in behind
I looked across and there I saw Billy
Waiting to go and join the line
And with her head upon his shoulder
His young and lovely fiancée
From where I stood I saw she was crying
And through her tears I heard her say

Billy don't be a hero
Don't be a fool with your life
Billy don't be a hero
Come back and make me your wife
And as he started to go
She said, "Billy keep your head low,"
Billy don't be a hero, come back to me

The Soldier Blues were trapped on a hillside
The battle raging all around
The Sergeant cried, "We got to hang on boys,
We got to hold this piece of ground,
I need a volunteer to ride up,
And bring us back some extra men."
And Billy's hand was up in a moment
Forgetting all the words she said
She said,

Billy don't be a hero
Don't be a fool with your life
Billy don't be a hero
Come back and make me your wife
And as he started to go
She said, "Billy keep your head low,"
Billy don't be a hero, come back to me

I heard his fiancée got a letter
That told how Billy died that day
The letter said that he was a hero
She should be proud he died that way
I heard she threw the letter away...

Moros

08-25-2005, 17:47

no, the problem is that I can't remember the title so I can't look up the Lyrics (I'm not verry good when it comes to lyrics but I'll give the chorus a try:)

...
Soldiers who wanne be heroes yakyakyakayak zeroes
But there are millions who wanna be civilians.
...
(I haven't heard that song for a while...)

maybe Steppemerc knows it like he did with the country joe Mcdonald song

Aenlic

08-25-2005, 19:18

You already know the title.

It's "Soldiers Who Want to Be Heroes" by Rod McKuen. Early 70's, late 60's maybe? I forget.

PanzerJaeger

08-25-2005, 20:52

I love the reaction from the left on this board.

The U.S. is becoming deeply divided over a war again, just as in the late 1960's.

:laugh4:

Divide and conquer?

Its like a dozen people at most and the left is declaring that we are a divided nation just like during their favorite war, vietnam. It obviously demonstrates their lack of historical perspective. :no:

Americans - Dont let the left, whether it be hippies or leftist foreigners, divide our country.

Seamus Fermanagh

08-25-2005, 21:15

Protests against the conflict in Vietnam did not spring to life overnight. The anti-war movement of the era organized carefully and worked hard to manipulate the media/build its protests. The summer of '68 was a creshendo, not somehting that sprang from a ground in an instant.

It remains to be seen whether the current protest movement can "catch fire" as did its predecessor.

I hope not.

Seamus

KafirChobee

08-25-2005, 21:16

ROFL!!! ~D The "grudge" report is always worth a chuckle. Lord, I never realized anyone took it seriously - how could one?

I can well imagine some misguided morons targeting Iraqi vets, as was done during the 'nam era. But, in todays atmosphere of supporting our troops - it ain't their fault for the war - it would not be conducive to winning many hearts or minds to their cause. It would, however, be a great way for the supporters of the war to defile the actual issue (why?) and slander those questioning the validity of our troops remaining in the midst of what is becoming an Iraqi civil conflict (war).

[Note to Gawain : Yeah, I got spit on coming down the ramp at LAX meeting my Dad and bro. Took the freak out with one punch too. Man did things ever change in the lousey 15 months I was gone, 67-68. Amazing. It happens, but not again.]

~D

yesdachi

08-25-2005, 21:30

It remains to be seen whether the current protest movement can "catch fire" as did its predecessor.
I hope not! Honestly I think people are far too easily distracted to be part of a “movement” today. If it could be done with an online vote or phone vote with the results being seen the next day on TV, maybe, but outside the few diehard activists I don’t see any major movements that don’t involve bran happening anytime soon.

The country is pretty divided lately and there is a lot of outrage but it is similar to an online forum in the fact that there’s a lot of talk but little action. ~;)

Steppe Merc

08-25-2005, 21:53

Americans - Dont let the left, whether it be hippies or leftist foreigners, divide our country.
PJ, there are no hippies! That's my point: where are the hippies? The people you claim are trying to divide the country are not at all like hippies. You just call them that because hippies bring to mind evil, dirty images in the minds of many people today.
And oh, those damn forigeners! Yup, they're trying to divide us alright! :dizzy2:

First of all, I think that people don't care enough to be divided. They are far to intent on mainting the status quo and about the latest lip synching popstar's tv show.
I'm not saying that it would be bad to be divided, I think people need to start realizing that the Republicans and Democrats are getting us no where. But it's certaintly not happening now.

Second, constant attacks on people who are just expressing their opinon isn't a good way to be uniter. Not everyone who disagrees with the President is an evil Pinko hippie thing.

Its todays youth who are volunteering and fighting this war. I for one take my hat off to them. :bow:
You know something is wrong when the 17 year old is complaining about today's youth, while the however old you are are complmenting them. ~;)

Moros

08-25-2005, 22:11

You already know the title.

It's "Soldiers Who Want to Be Heroes" by Rod McKuen. Early 70's, late 60's maybe? I forget.
if I only knew I knew

where are the hippies?
here I am!!! and If I can believe your member titel, you are to ~;)

no seriously, SM really has a point here.

PanzerJaeger

08-25-2005, 22:22

PJ, there are no hippies! That's my point: where are the hippies? The people you claim are trying to divide the country are not at all like hippies. You just call them that because hippies bring to mind evil, dirty images in the minds of many people today.
And oh, those damn forigeners! Yup, they're trying to divide us alright!

There are plenty of hippies around.. Visit a college campus or a "fish" concert. (I refuse to spell it their hippy way.. ~;) ) And they all hate America, well the ones smart enough to grasp concepts such as that.

Although you are right though. Hippies and people in general these days are a lot more apathetic. A lot of talk with no action.

Oh, and you can find examples of foreigners making idiotic comments in an attempt to promote division amongst us in this very thread.

Seamus Fermanagh

08-25-2005, 22:22

The only hippies I've ever seen were a few grey-bearded versions still living in "the Hayt" when I visited SFO and quite a number of the folks in Eugene, Oregon. Why Eugene? I've never really been sure.

Seamus

Reverend Joe

08-25-2005, 22:25

where are the hippies?
*raises hand, then realises that hand is holding a bag of grass and quickly hides it*

"evil pinko hippie thing"? Damn, you are talking about me! ~:cheers: I'm gonna change my title to Evil pinko hippie thing- that's a classic.

As for the article: This is just another example of desperate right-wing propaganda that is slowly being filtered, en masse, through the media. I guarantee you this will end up on CNN in the very near future. And hence why I only read the paper.

Steppe Merc

08-25-2005, 22:37

My point is, is that the people trying to "divide America" aren't hippies. Those protestors aren't hippies. That Cindy S whatever isn't a hippie. No politicians are hippies.
Yes, I know there are some folks who are hippie like. I am probably one of them, and my friends are. But my point is, is that there aren't really any hippies that are actively "dividing America" and doing "evil" things. The people described as hippies are almost never hippies. Am I making any sense here? The term hippie is a term used to degrade any sort of not right person, when it is a lot more specific than that.

And it's Phish you ignorant doofus! ~;) Besides, they broke up... :embarassed:

meatwad, happy to help. ~;) I was trying to think of another insulting term of a left leaning person, and couldn't think of one. ~D

Moros

08-25-2005, 22:41

And it's Phish you ignorant doofus! ~;) Besides, they broke up... :embarassed:

you mean the band of the 2nd song?
I didn't know the band. :embarassed:

Steppe Merc

08-25-2005, 22:51

No, I was talking too PJ, not you. Not sure about the songs you were talking about. I should have been more clear, sorry. :bow:

I was responding to this:

There are plenty of hippies around.. Visit a college campus or a "fish" concert. (I refuse to spell it their hippy way.. ~;) ) And they all hate America, well the ones smart enough to grasp concepts such as that.

Del Arroyo

08-25-2005, 22:55

Louis VI the Fat

08-25-2005, 22:55

shots of protest signs with slogans like “Maimed for a Lie.”I agree that a veteran hospital is the worst place imaginable to make a protest in this fashion. It is not done to use recently maimed soldiers as an object of propaganda.

But, that also means that they shouldn't be used as an object of propaganda by those in favour of the war either.
Should those telling an 'Iraq' veteran that he was "Maimed for the safety of the Nation and the American way" be hung for treason as well?

yesdachi

08-25-2005, 23:00

Steppe Merc - It’s hard for me to read your posts without hearing them in my mind in cheech’s voice with the word “man” inserted about every 5th word. You too Meatwad, after your raises hand comment. ~D

Redleg

08-25-2005, 23:02

I love the reaction from the left on this board.

THe Drudge Report should be made fun of - its mostly hyperbole.

Divide and conquer?

It might just be the mood I am in today. But isn't the far right doing its fair share of divide and conquer - calling moderates who are protesting the Governments actions as traitors and other such demonizing terms. Hmm - I don't like most of the anti-war protests - but again it is there right as granted by the constitution. One of the reasons I changed my sig - was because of the amount of polarization I see here on this board, I listen to talk radio on my way to work and back home - and the polarization is also present there. And then I see two types of protestors and types of Protest. Cindy Sheehan is being used by the far left - willing I believe on her part - but she is a far cry from some of the terms I have seen spouted by the far-right. She is misquided I believe - but calling her a "whore" is way over the top. Then this anti-war protestors in from of Walter Reed - hell just lookin at the picture discounts them as nothing other then the far-left fringe.

So we got the Far-right calling protestors names - and we got the far-left calling the people in government names and those who question their protest names. Both are equally bad and at fault for dividing the nation. I will say that the far-left have done slightly more starting back in 2000 because of the loss of Gore in the election. They just never got over it. But to demonstrate against a war that they feel is unjust or unneeded does not make them "whores" or un-american.

Its like a dozen people at most and the left is declaring that we are a divided nation just like during their favorite war, vietnam. It obviously demonstrates their lack of historical perspective. :no:

Calling Iraq at this time like Vietnam is definetly a lack of historical perspective - but protesting the actions of the government is never a bad thing if you disagree with what the government is doing.

Americans - Dont let the left, whether it be hippies or leftist foreigners, divide our country.

Counter them with logic - if you can not counter them with logic - then their protest might have some valid concerns. Don't let your disagreement over their points cloud your ability to reason.

Now I will play word games with anyone that spouts garabage that demonizes or otherwise is an emotional appeal type of arguement - but anyone that can carry out a logical discourse about why they feel the government is doing something wrong - has in my opinion the ability to be heard by me - and the absolute right to question the government. I only ignore or challenge them with political rthoric (SP) of my own.

To say the far left is ruining America without looking what the Far-Right is doing - well is disingenous (SP). (@ Aenlic now I bet I got the use of the term right this time ~D )

Redleg

08-25-2005, 23:04

HOLD ON GUYS!

I don't believe any of this is confirmed yet. If it were actually true and of any significant proportions, it would be all over the news.

Please take a deep breath and sit down.

(If it were true I'd be the first one out there busting heads ~:pissed: )

DA

Check the links out that I provided - its a true story - a very small (like 5 or 6 individual) standing outside of Walter Reed with two signs. They are misquided knuckleheads that deserve to be made fun of. Just like one should poke fun at the Drudge Report's hyperbole in covering the story.

Its really a non-starter - nothing but hyperbole.

Aenlic

08-25-2005, 23:07

Dangit, Louis! Stop trying to interject reason and balance into the debate. It was starting to get interesting!

And you best be careful there, Redleg, or I'll have you marching about with a raised fist in the air, carrying a black flag and shouting "Long Live the Proletariat!" Not our Proletariat, er... though I would wish her long life too; but... hmmm... Ok, I'll just shut up now.

Adrian II

08-25-2005, 23:15

So we got the Far-right calling protestors names - and we got the far-left calling the people in government names and those who question their protest names.In both cases, their shrillness probably reflects a lack of conviction. Pro and anti war advocates have little to show for. The former say with Bush that 'we have to stay the course'. Oh yeah -- what course? The latter say 'withdraw and leave Iraq to the Iraqis'. Oh yeah -- just quit and leave a horrible mess?

All that seems left to both sides at this moment is moralising and personalising the issue to the point where the real questions are lost from sight. Bush lied! Sheehan is a traitor! Fine, fine, people -- but in the mean time, what do we do about Iraq?

Gawain of Orkeny

08-25-2005, 23:54

Red Harvest

08-26-2005, 00:41

I love the reaction from the left on this board.

:laugh4:

Divide and conquer?

Its like a dozen people at most and the left is declaring that we are a divided nation just like during their favorite war, vietnam. It obviously demonstrates their lack of historical perspective. :no:

Americans - Dont let the left, whether it be hippies or leftist foreigners, divide our country.

You are seriously out of touch if you think it is "the left" and a "dozen people at most." The polls show a growing conviction that this isn't what we went to war for and a sense that it wasn't worth it. Doesn't mean that the 58% of us that feel that way want to abandon the troops, but we are wanting some explanation of why nothing has been as it was presented by the Administration. I'm always surprised by how long folks can stay in denial on matters like this.

And this looks very much like the sort of mess we got ourselves into in Vietnam. Casualty rate (killed and wounded) is about half that of 1966 Vietnam on a per soldier basis. We had 385,000 in Vietnam in 1966.

I don't see any clear path out. We sure as heck aren't where we should have been at this stage in time.

Steppe Merc

08-26-2005, 00:47

I agree Adrian and Gawain. Protesting about the wrong thing is quite foolish. And I still don't understand how people can justify pulling out of Iraq now. Yes we should do things differently. Who knows how it will turn out. But it isn't like Nam and we'd be fare worse if we just abondoned the Iraqis to certaint civil war.
Instead of holding signs asking to withdraw right now, we should be holding signs asking for the disarmnemnt of nukes, or the intervention in Darfur, or the protection of the enviornment, or many many things that many people on both sides can agree on. Heck, even I can see how working together with moderates and conservatives is better than pursuing things that not only will cause you to be hated, but hurt innocents. If you want to be hated, that's fine, but do it for the right thing.

Gawain, what do you mean by busted for it? You're not allowed to protest during active duty, is that what you mean? And why is it bad it was on Japanese tv? Just wondering. ~;)

Redleg

08-26-2005, 01:00

And you best be careful there, Redleg, or I'll have you marching about with a raised fist in the air, carrying a black flag and shouting "Long Live the Proletariat!" Not our Proletariat, er... though I would wish her long life too; but... hmmm... Ok, I'll just shut up now.

Naw never fear about that happening, I just can't stand the name calling that happens from the far right and the far left on any political issue. Hell it doesn't take them but about 2 seconds into the conservation to start the demonization.

Its so sad and predictable its not even amusing any longer.

But don't worry - I wont left the scum sucking leftists get away with it either. They have a bad habit of holding back the Proletariat themselves - well not ours anyway. ~D

Gawain of Orkeny

08-26-2005, 01:23

Gawain, what do you mean by busted for it? You're not allowed to protest during active duty, is that what you mean? And why is it bad it was on Japanese tv? Just wondering

Im not sure if it is but I do know its not well thought of. By busted I mean a reduction in rank and pay plus extra duty. They didnt come out and bust me for protesting they found another way to do it. Its a long and complicated story. Lets just say one day I was on TV and two days later I was facing a courtmartial. I accepted office hours as my attorney said they wouldnt do anything to me for what I did. How wrong he was. In accepting office hours you put it all in the hands of your commanding officer. Its sort of like plea bargining. ~;)

PanzerJaeger

08-26-2005, 03:50

It might just be the mood I am in today. But isn't the far right doing its fair share of divide and conquer - calling moderates who are protesting the Governments actions as traitors and other such demonizing terms.

Who on the far right is calling protesters names? Has anyone in power demonized moderates?

Meanwhile youve got democratic leaders in the senate comparing the US troops to Nazis, calling the President a terrorist, and telling the troops they are in a quagmire and have lost.. hmm.

Nice attempt at relativity Red, but it just doesnt cut it. The president and anyone with any credibility on the right have tried their best to unite the country.

Proletariat

08-26-2005, 04:13

They have a bad habit of holding back the Proletariat themselves - well not ours anyway. ~D

Who? Moi?

:angel:

I work at this hospital. Those people are a disgrace, but eh, what are you gonna do? No one seemed to care too much where I work (in the amputee clinic). I'm more curious that they're moving us into the Navy hospital.

:help:

Redleg

08-26-2005, 04:25

Who on the far right is calling protesters names? Has anyone in power demonized moderates?

Lets see did you not call Mrs. Sheehan a "whore". Shall I post links of the far-right making inapporiate comments ?

Meanwhile youve got democratic leaders in the senate comparing the US troops to Nazis, calling the President a terrorist, and telling the troops they are in a quagmire and have lost.. hmm.

So that excuses calling those on the left names like you have been doing?

Nice attempt at relativity Red, but it just doesnt cut it. The president and anyone with any credibility on the right have tried their best to unite the country.

Notice what I said Panzer - not what you think I stated. I didn't say the President nor did I say the right - I said something else.

PanzerJaeger

08-26-2005, 04:33

Lets see did you not call Mrs. Sheehan a "whore". Shall I post links of the far-right making inapporiate comments ?

LoL Red, I appreciate the compliment but Im merely a citizen with no power or influence at all. Private citizens say a lot of different things.. but I gave you 3 different examples of leftists in power demonizing and dividing Americans.

So that excuses calling those on the left names like you have been doing?

I think shes a whore of the left. Do you know how much that means.. about as much as what John Doe in Roanoke thinks.. nothing. I dont even have a blog for Christ sakes!

Where are the influential right wingers dividing and demonizing? All of the examples I gave you were from US senators.

Notice what I said Panzer - not what you think I stated. I didn't say the President nor did I say the right - I said something else.

The gist of what you said was an attempt to draw relativity between the right and left, which was not accurate.

Gawain of Orkeny

08-26-2005, 05:57

I work at this hospital. Those people are a disgrace, but eh, what are you gonna do? No one seemed to care too much where I work (in the amputee clinic). I'm more curious that they're moving us into the Navy hospital.

Did you work at Walter Reed ? I hear their closing it and combining it with Bethesda Naval Hospital. Is that where your going? I was gonna say in the other thread you dont fix us up the Navy does. ~D

Redleg

08-26-2005, 06:14

LoL Red, I appreciate the compliment but Im merely a citizen with no power or influence at all. Private citizens say a lot of different things.. but I gave you 3 different examples of leftists in power demonizing and dividing Americans.

So you want examble of far-right individuals in politics saying such things. Oh that is even easier. Have you heard of Jerry Farwell.

In the article, which I titled 'Smart Bombs and Dumb Americans,' I noted that 'spoiled Hollywood brats' and leftist academics have been trashing the country in the name of 'patriotism.' Quite frankly, I've had my fill of it. Patriotism starts with a love of country; the sentiments of these loopy liberals begin with an absolute loathing and distrust of America."

Oh wait you want more - again nice attempt at re-direction - but again the term used was the far right. There is more but it seems your not wanting to listen or hear the actual message about demonization of the oppostion occurs by both spectrums.

I think shes a whore of the left. Do you know how much that means.. about as much as what John Doe in Roanoke thinks.. nothing. I dont even have a blog for Christ sakes!

So that is suppose to excuse you from demonizing an individual because you don't agree with her statements.

Where are the influential right wingers dividing and demonizing? All of the examples I gave you were from US senators.

Again notice what a said - far-right. You might want to tune into talk radio - such demonization is done all the time by talk show hosts - ie most of them are right wing - some are even way out there on the far right. Hell I heard Anti-American name calling about any protestors several times on the drive to and from work today. One of them was good old Tony Snow - the other one was O'Reilly.

Then there is Pat Robertson - not only does he give a bad name to Christians for his comments - but he gives the Right a bad name. But I guess he is another you would like to discount because he is not a senator. Even though he did at one time attempt to run for President.

Karl Rove comes to mind also - given some of his statements.

The gist of what you said was an attempt to draw relativity between the right and left, which was not accurate.

Oh its more then accurate - I am drawing a comparsion of the far left with the far right. What many don't realize is that most of the senators and representives in congress while Republican and many are on the right - I do not believe there are any far-right senators or representives in Congress. But I am sure I can be proven wrong on that by someone who pays attention to all the statements made by the Republican congressmen.

I suggest you read the quote in my Sig. Its from an individual who is about as Patriotic as they come.

Proletariat

08-26-2005, 13:10

Did you work at Walter Reed ? I hear their closing it and combining it with Bethesda Naval Hospital. Is that where your going? I was gonna say in the other thread you dont fix us up the Navy does. ~D

Actually, I still do. That's where my reserve unit is stationed and I also do PRN work there still. I'll most likely be completely done with the military by the time the move is done, but yeah, that's where my clinic is going.

Ronin

08-26-2005, 13:55

just a dumb move all around....target the morons that sent the troops there....the fault is theirs....the troops go were they are told.

Steppe Merc

08-26-2005, 17:03

Prole, just out of curosity, do you know who they are targetting? The actual soldiers or the government? If you don't know that's fine, but it would be interesting to hear a first hand experience...

Ronin, I agree 100%. :bow:

Nice attempt at relativity Red, but it just doesnt cut it. The president and anyone with any credibility on the right have tried their best to unite the country.
Has it ever occured to you that some people just don't want to follow them? Why should they have to be united? Should people follow someone just for the sake of unity, even though they disagree what that person is doing? Isn't that "un American"?

And you think that the democrats are demonizing the right? But they don't do anything about it. In the end, they still support the same moronic laws and they don't do anything. Some call names, that's all. And again, it's often at the wrong people, or for the wrong reasons.

Red, I apreciate you're efforts in pointing out the fact that name calling is a 2 way street. I know that I myself am no angel when it comes to name calling and generilizations.

Proletariat

08-26-2005, 17:16

Prole, just out of curosity, do you know who they are targetting? The actual soldiers or the government? If you don't know that's fine, but it would be interesting to hear a first hand experience...

C'mon, Merc. They're at Walter Reed, a hospital for the most critical injuries sustained by soldiers in Iraq. The White House and Capitol are about a 10 minute Metro ride away.

I don't think they were here demanding a meeting with Bush or Rumsfield.

Steppe Merc

08-26-2005, 17:19

Ah. In that case, they are fools...

KafirChobee

08-26-2005, 18:58

I would just like to point out that I protested the war while I was in the Marines. And I got busted for it. Unfourtunatley for me it was taped and put on Japanese tv. I never dreamed they would use it. Protesting is fine in fact good. Its how and why you do it that counts.
Gawain, thank God you were in the USMC and not stationed with me in the Army at Ft. Polk (my final posting)- we'ld have both ended up in Leavenworth. ~D I got investigated by the FBI and ASA (army security agency) for ensighting (sp) to protest. My crime? Starting a sign-up for our POWs and MIAs - had 5,000 signatures too (which of course was confiscated, but which I had half or s duplicated by getting their sigs twice - someone mentioned it might get lost .... so ~:cool: ). I got a long lecture on how, as a soldier, I did not have the right to participate in any protest - whether it be for other soldiers or what - if it had a political significance. Seems soldiers leave their rights at the door when they enter military service. I was just niave, I guess. Everything was pretty much dropped when some news agency asked to speak to the "protesting" Sgt. I had to agree not to do it again, and not to talk to the press, etc. Since I now knew that it was an illegal thing - a soldier being political - I obeyed.

BTW, a friend mailed the sigs when on leave to the POW/MIA organization from Norman, OK. The FBI grilled me like a terrorist and the ASA guys just kept laughing at my ignorance of military policy.

I heard about other Marines getting the shaft for protesting or simply saying the wrong thing or giving the peace sign, etc. Never met one before though. ~:cheers:

Gah! Agreeing with Gawain and Redleg is becoming a habit. Imagine. ~:eek: