50 [Archive] - The Org

Big_John

08-30-2005, 20:26

it's looking pretty bad. i was thinking that new orleans was somewhat sparred, when katrina took that turn (unfortunately for mississippi). but once that level broke, i thought, "uh oh..". i can only hope for the best for them all, and i wish them luck. unfortunately, i fear the body count will end up being rather high, but who can say at this point?

i saw that street interview with a guy harvey (harley?) jackson who lost his wife and house, where the reporter started to cry.. that was.. something else.

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 21:34

When is the International Community going to send aid?

**crickets chirping in the background**

Kagemusha

08-30-2005, 21:36

I dont think that US has asked for it.

Ser Clegane

08-30-2005, 21:51

My condolences to the families that have lost beloved ones and not "only" material things :sad:

Regarding the help - I am sure that if the US administration requires support from any other country in form of special units or equipment this support will be gladly given as it will always be when asked for.

Anybody who wants to help on a personal level can do so by donating e.g., to the Red Cross.

Of course you will not see large donation rallyes as we have seen after e.g., the Tsunami - but to be fair - that is partly due to the fact that a lot of the material damage is covered by insurances and that the US is generally more capable of covering most needs by itself than countries like e.g., Thailand or Indonesia.

This should however not prevent individuals to try to help via NGOs as naturally not all individual hardships caused by the tornado will be covered by insurances or the administration.

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 21:51

Well, it looks like the storm has brought out the best of the "urban" element in the city.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_looting
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46056

Typical...

Gawain of Orkeny

08-30-2005, 21:55

Well, it looks like the storm has brought out the best of the "urban" element in the city.

Come on their just society's victims.

Kagemusha

08-30-2005, 21:55

Bloody looters. :hanged:

yesdachi

08-30-2005, 22:03

When is the International Community going to send aid?

**crickets chirping in the background**
That’s a good one. ~D

I saw on the news last night that my local disaster relief organization (red cross like) has already sent 3 truckloads of supplies south and are already planning more. A nice thing about the US is that we do have a lot of resources to draw from. And insurance helps too but it takes a long time, people are still waiting for claims to be resolved from last year’s hurricanes in Florida.

t1master

08-30-2005, 22:05

my favorite looter.... ~:cheers:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10908301723.hurricane_katrina_ladm109.jpg?x=218&y=345&sig=G7m12guybCetRDu2piT5NA--

_Martyr_

08-30-2005, 22:22

The Man knows how to have a good time... ~:cheers:

Fabolous

08-30-2005, 22:27

Right now someone is reporting 60 at least dead, including 35 in the Gulpost-Biloxi Miss. area. I know people in Biloxi, I hope they are okay, but it is impossible to find out right now.

Strike For The South

08-30-2005, 22:29

there evacuating the refugees now what the hell is going on

drone

08-30-2005, 22:44

there evacuating the refugees now what the hell is going on
The water keeps coming in. The winds have died down but there is a breach in the levee holding back Lake Pontchartrain, so the water keeps rising. The public health situation is probably going to get worse before it gets better as well, so it's probably a good idea that everyone except for rescue and utility/cleanup crews to get to higher ground.

The number of confirmed fatalities is 68, but that is going to go up. I haven't heard of any confirmed from New Orleans, but there are reports of bodies floating in the flood waters. Bad times...

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 23:06

my favorite looter.... ~:cheers:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10908301723.hurricane_katrina_ladm109.jpg?x=218&y=345&sig=G7m12guybCetRDu2piT5NA--

Hey, its JJ from Good Times!!! Dyyyynoooomiiiite!!!!

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 23:09

When is the International Community going to send aid?

**crickets chirping in the background**

Oh good, here's that International support now...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372179,00.html

Thanks Germany!!!

Strike For The South

08-30-2005, 23:14

some of those guys were just ass holes

Proletariat

08-30-2005, 23:25

Very surprising, coming from the home of the term schadenfreud. Thanks for the effort, Clegane.

Fox News reported a local McDonald's restaurant also was looted with residents stealing burger patties and buns.

Wtf is going on down there? There wasn't a Chic Fila down there or maybe a Red Lobster?

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 23:29

Very surprising, coming from the home of the term schadenfreud. Thanks for the effort, Clegane.

Wtf is going on down there? There wasn't a Chic Fila down there or maybe a Red Lobster?

I bet KFC and Church's didn't stand a chance either down there... ~D

PanzerJaeger

08-30-2005, 23:30

Thanks Germany!!!

Not all Germans are that shallow and idiotic! :embarassed:

Sadly, a majority in the media elite and current government are.

Devastatin Dave

08-30-2005, 23:47

Not all Germans are that shallow and idiotic! :embarassed:

Sadly, a majority in the media elite and current government are.

Your right, allow me rephrase...

Thanks German media for your support...

Xiahou

08-31-2005, 00:03

there evacuating the refugees now what the hell is going on
As said, the flood waters are still rising and there's no safe drinking water left either- plus there's fear of disease with all of the standing water around.

JimBob

08-31-2005, 00:04

Kaiser of Arabia

08-31-2005, 00:08

Oh good, here's that International support now...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372179,00.html

Thanks Germany!!!
Wow, that's some thank you, considering we rebuilt the nation after THEY declared war on us back in the fourties...maybe we should have said "WWII Should be A Lesson To Germany on Global Domination" and left it at that.

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 00:12

Oh God! They stole burgers from McD's. You know that is probably the only way they'll get food for at least the next 72 hours? They need to eat, and McD's can put up. Stealing anything but food and survival supplies is wrong, but human rights trump property rights and people need to eat, drink, ect.

They're stealing more than McD's, but I guess they need that new plasma screen TV for survival as well. I hope they picked up some malt liquer too, essential for their survival as well you know. :dizzy2:

Soulforged

08-31-2005, 00:20

They're stealing more than McD's, but I guess they need that new plasma screen TV for survival as well. I hope they picked up some malt liquer too, essential for their survival as well you know. :dizzy2:

I don't know about you but if that happened to me i'll steal every god damn capitalist that i see. ~;)
My condolences to those affected by this.

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 00:28

I don't know about you but if that happened to me i'll steal every god damn capitalist that i see. ~;)
My condolences to those affected by this.

Well those "gad damned capitalist" are the ones that supply jobs to these areas. No wonder businesses are leaving urban areas in mass to get away from subhuman criminals that only care about "wuts I can makes mines"...

Strike For The South

08-31-2005, 00:47

I bet KFC and Church's didn't stand a chance either down there... ~D

classic ~:cheers:

JimBob

08-31-2005, 02:28

Doth thou read?

Oh God! They stole burgers from McD's. You know that is probably the only way they'll get food for at least the next 72 hours? They need to eat, and McD's can put up. Stealing anything but food and survival supplies is wrong, but human rights trump property rights and people need to eat, drink, ect.

They're stealing more than McD's, but I guess they need that new plasma screen TV for survival as well. I hope they picked up some malt liquer too, essential for their survival as well you know.

I was commenting on the McD's stealing and the various jokes that followed. Stealing TVs, ect is wrong as I said.

Strike For The South

08-31-2005, 02:33

some info

Refugees facing new trauma

-New Orleans emergency shelters being evacuated
-About 200 critically ill patients being airlifted to safety
-New Orleans mayor: Bodies being pushed to the side
-Coast Guard reserves mandatory call up ordered
-Mississippi flooding up to six miles inland
-"This is our tsunami," Biloxi Mayor
-shootings carjackings looting near superdome

Red Harvest

08-31-2005, 02:52

About the looting, abominable. However, that is not uncommon in blackouts either or other disasters of this nature. Whenever people know the police are busy, the worst elements take advantage of it.

Bigger point: Considering how long it is likely to be before power is back on and water is running, it might make some sense to have *organized* gathering of produce from area markets, before they spoil. Distribute them to folks who have nothing in shelters etc. The food will be worthless if left where it is. (Isn't going to work for meats...but for fruits and veggies, and cheese, and milk etc...

Local supermarkets with much water damage will likely have to write off all their canned goods anyway, so organizing a martial law distribution system might provide, without being destructive. It wouldn't introduce any extra losses to the grocers, and in fact might reduce them.

Redleg

08-31-2005, 03:48

Well if anyone is interested in the photo's coming out of New Orleans to the Florida Panhandle concerning the Hurricane - here is a Fox News Link - other photos are also available - but the Fox site links the levy breaks on both the lake and the River.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167781,00.html

A friend of mine at work has family outside of New Orleans - it seems from the updates he is getting from family is that the city is filling up with water - and the pumps are are backwashing - inother words the pumps can not pump the water out.

The death toll on this is not going to be small - its probably going to be one of the biggest we ever had in the States. In New Orleans they are not counting yet - because they are in the midst of trying to evac the remaining living citizens first.

Papewaio

08-31-2005, 03:56

Black people loot, white people find? (http://www.boingboing.net/)

looting a grocery store (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530)

Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1)

Kaiser of Arabia

08-31-2005, 04:27

Roark

08-31-2005, 04:28

At first, I thought to myself "that's racism!" and I was prepared to point a finger of blame at the screen and gibber about civil rights, but...

...the black kid's got a much bigger haul than the white couple... :book:

Strike For The South

08-31-2005, 04:28

ya he does ~:eek:

Papewaio

08-31-2005, 04:37

Is this REALLY the proper time to bring up racial inequalites in the media, pape?

Considering half this thread is about looting and about what should happen to the looters. I think it is the exact proper time to point out how we are portraying people. Afterall in a disaster zone looters get shot while residents get helped...

sharrukin

08-31-2005, 04:42

IMO, its not looting when you have a disaster and people need food and water. Stealing non-essentials is another thing and should be dealt with harshly. Many criminals are taking advantage of the situation to loot and pillage businesses and homes.

From what I have heard they have lost one of the most important pumping stations and things look to get worse. It looks to be some time before the water will be able to be removed.

Red Harvest

08-31-2005, 05:04

My understanding is that the pumping stations were intended for heavy rains and such, not for levies giving way.

sharrukin

08-31-2005, 05:58

My understanding is that the pumping stations were intended for heavy rains and such, not for levies giving way.

Well they are certainly overwhelmed. Those stations are needed for the draining of New Orleans when the Corp of Engineers gets the levees repaired. They have a million people evacuated and more of them are going to be in financial trouble as time goes by. They are saying it may be weeks or even months before they will be able to return.

bmolsson

08-31-2005, 07:55

Really sad....

Meneldil

08-31-2005, 11:09

Any news atm ? From what I read in french news, there are hundreds of dead.

Adrian II

08-31-2005, 11:13

Any news atm ? From what I read in french news, there are hundreds of dead.I guess nobody really knows what goes on in such a huge territory. In New Orleans (which is featured most by U.S. and world media) the water is still rising, and so is the misery. It is probably going to take weeks before people can move back in and months before the major damage has been restored.

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 13:50

I heard this morning that this one will cost more than 911. ~:eek:

Red Harvest

08-31-2005, 18:49

I heard this morning that this one will cost more than 911. ~:eek:

No big surprise there. 9/11 was confined to a couple of major structures. This took out one major and several smaller cities. Not to mention towns and houses across a huge swath extending well inland.

The financial hit for those who lost home/business etc. will be hard, but this could have been far worse. Had Katrina hit New Orleans as a Category 5 and not weakened and drifted East, many of the people now being evacuated would instead be dead. That was what I feared. Fortunately, the levies were not topped in that way, and instead there has been a more gradual filling of the basin.

I hope the final death toll will be less than 1,000. At this point it is anyone's guess.

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 18:55

No big surprise there. 9/11 was confined to a couple of major structures. This took out one major and several smaller cities. Not to mention towns and houses across a huge swath extending well inland.

The financial hit for those who lost home/business etc. will be hard, but this could have been far worse. Had Katrina hit New Orleans as a Category 5 and not weakened and drifted East, many of the people now being evacuated would instead be dead. That was what I feared. Fortunately, the levies were not topped in that way, and instead there has been a more gradual filling of the basin.

I hope the final death toll will be less than 1,000. At this point it is anyone's guess.

We will have to see considering the disease and toxic water. There are a lot of chemical plants and considering the failure of the levy and pumping systems, i doubt the chemical facilities were prepared for this disaster either. :help:

Red Harvest

08-31-2005, 20:20

We will have to see considering the disease and toxic water. There are a lot of chemical plants and considering the failure of the levy and pumping systems, i doubt the chemical facilities were prepared for this disaster either. :help:

It has been my understanding since this weekend that the New Orleans pumps were not meant for submergence like this. They were to prevent flooding from the torrential rains, not pump out from burst levies or overtopped levies. The concern before the storm hit was that the pumps would be submerged, meaning they could not be used. Some of those fears have apparently been realized.

My concern about the water would be from the raw sewage and dead critters, more than chemicals. As for the refineries and chemical plants, most structures are designed for hurrricane force winds greater than what Katrina hit with. They also have flood plans that call for shutting everything down and blocking it in. Most stuff you would sorry about will be in pressure vessels that are unlikely to be destroyed by the storm. The damage to the plants could be severe without major releases. Instead you would probably have releases from sheared piping (things knocking it free.) As far as danger from chemicals/pesticides I would be more concerned about all the small releases from submerged businesses, homes, vehicles, etc.

I don't think many of the refineries are below sea level like the city itself. The ones I've worked with had levies with the river of course.

Gawain of Orkeny

08-31-2005, 20:29

It seems to have had an immeadiate effect on the price of gas as it went up 50 cents here overnight to 3 dollars and 30 cents for regular. ~:eek:

Adrian II

08-31-2005, 20:31

Man, it is looking worse by the hour. According to NO Mayor Nagin a 'couple hundred thousand people' were left behind and will now have to be evacuated. The whole city must be emptied a.s.a.p. and it may be months before inhabitants can return. There is no official Louisiana estimate of deaths. According to Nagin rescue workers are ordered to push any bodies aside and concentrate on saving the survivors. Together with the continuing rise of flood waters, the looting, the toxic gumbo, the picture is bleak indeed.

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 20:36

The question has to be asked... is it worth trying to rebuild this city? ~:confused:

Red Harvest

08-31-2005, 20:44

The question has to be asked... is it worth trying to rebuild this city? ~:confused:

It will be rebuilt, but I think it might have to establish some population limits and habitability zones etc. And it obviously needs some huge "shelter-in-place" centers designed specifically for the purpose. There is a lot of industry dependent on the area, because of the oil, because of the river, not to mention its culture, etc.

If you don't rebuild it, where are you going to move everything? You can't transport them to the middle of Iowa permanently.

PanzerJaeger

08-31-2005, 20:48

It should be rebuilt in a slightly different area if possible.

A diagram of New Orleans shows how precarious the situation of the city was. Of course its understandable that it grew up over hundreds of years and it was never planned to be such a huge urban area, but if we are going to have to start over, its not fiscally responsible to rebuild it in what amounts to a bowl kept dry with pumps.

Dâriûsh

08-31-2005, 21:39

Between this and what happened in Baghdad it has been a terrible week. God have mercy on them all.

I bet KFC and Church's didn't stand a chance either down there... ~D

Do you really think that racist humour is appropriate in this situation?

Devastatin Dave

08-31-2005, 21:58

Between this and what happened in Baghdad it has been a terrible week. God have mercy on them all.

Do you really think that racist humour is appropriate in this situation?

I love fried chicken and I'm from the South like the folks looting. What's racist about southern humor? Maybe you have inner racist thoughts of your own.

Strike For The South

09-02-2005, 03:14

They are now reports of rape and urban warfae in the city I hope this gets under control and the rescures and the aid gets where it needs to get to

Seamus Fermanagh

09-02-2005, 03:43

Apparently, one segment of the "didn't evacuate" crowd was a goup staying behind for discount shopping. Sad really.

Sadder still is a death toll rumored to be in the thousands in New Orleans alone. Hard numbers will have to wait until the waters are pumped out (25-45 days) and the dead are recoverable.

Side note. "Fats Domino" is rumored to be among those who didn't escape the flood waters. This is, as yet, unconfirmed.

Seamus

Strike For The South

09-02-2005, 04:17

oh wait need more info n/m

Red Harvest

09-02-2005, 04:23

Apparently, one segment of the "didn't evacuate" crowd was a goup staying behind for discount shopping. Sad really.

I think that crowd will be sorely disappointed. I think once the place is evacuated, their dwellings will end up bull dozed without them ever having the chance to come back home. Seriously, I think the mess will be so great by the time the water is pumped out that people might not be allowed to come back in before demolition. Just a guess though.