Rap vs Rock(Rock,Metal...) [Archive]

Duke Malcolm

08-31-2005, 18:41

my friend goes on and on about rock, but not just rock, punk rock, indie rock, indie-punk rock, funk rock, metal, rock and roll, metal, heavy metal, new metal, new metal rock, pop rock, pop metal, folk rock, brit rock, and so on and so forth and such like. It is all too much trouble, especially considering he claims each one is different based on the chords played, or the pitch of the guiter. Classical, on the other hand, can come in a great many shapes and sizes, pitches, keys, and many other things besides, but is just called Classical. makes no sense whatsoever...

Reverend Joe

08-31-2005, 19:37

I have to say Gah. I may like old rock (I am listening to the Doors' first album right now) but I can't vote for a generic rock category. There's just too much crap that has been called "rock". I say Gah because of the generalisations involved.

Del Arroyo

08-31-2005, 19:45

Choosing "rap" over "rock" or "rock" over "rap" is really about identification with the civil, white mainstream vs. identification with a fresh, uncouth, racist counterculture.

Of course, if you don't identify with this divide at all, then you can't really answer the question.

And, by the way, musically, it is a dumb question.

DA

EDIT: edited on mod request

Templar Knight

08-31-2005, 21:20

ROCK!!! ~:cheers:

I have not been able to figure out how anyone can listen to rap.

King Henry V

08-31-2005, 21:29

I think thez missed the letter "c" from rap and if you want to rock like a caveman, I'm happy for you.

Beirut

08-31-2005, 21:37

Duke Malcolm

08-31-2005, 21:42

Aah, old blue eyes... some beautiful pieces...
I prefer classical, then some good marches, then some pop music

ah_dut

08-31-2005, 22:18

Old fashioned Floyd...timeless

Reverend Joe

08-31-2005, 22:43

Old fashioned Floyd...timeless

Indeed. But you can't just lump it into a "rock" category because that means setting them next to Nine Inch Nails, and I highly doubt the groups share too many fans.

Zalmoxis

09-01-2005, 04:04

The new punk bands out there are retarded (has anyone noticed how they all sing songs to the exact same, note by note, music?).

Taurus

09-01-2005, 07:56

Rap/Hip Hop

http://thugradio.net/cover-2pac-greatesthits.jpg

edyzmedieval

09-01-2005, 07:59

Rock sucks.(except for bands like Linkin Park and Good Charlotte)

As for what Beirut said,

I agree completely ~:cheers:

Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald.....
Great music. ~:cheers: ~:cool:

Zalmoxis

09-01-2005, 08:14

Actually edyz, Linkin Park and Good Charlotte are the bands that suck. Get it straight.

doc_bean

09-01-2005, 09:20

I like more rock songs than I like rap songs, so rock. But there's a lot of bad stuff in both genres. Besides rock has had almost 50years to produce some good songs, while rap has only had about 20 years. It makes sense that there are more good rock songs.

Indeed. But you can't just lump it into a "rock" category because that means setting them next to Nine Inch Nails, and I highly doubt the groups share too many fans.

You're underestimating the (prog-)metal fans that like bands like Tool and NiN but just as much like to listen to Floyd or Zeppelin.

ah_dut

09-01-2005, 09:38

Actually edyz, Linkin Park and Good Charlotte are the bands that suck. Get it straight.
What he said...

Taurus

09-01-2005, 11:39

Rap/Hip Hop
http://thugradio.net/cover-2pac-greatesthits.jpg

:bow:

Strike For The South

09-01-2005, 13:38

~:cheers: Country ~:cheers:

edyzmedieval

09-01-2005, 14:46

~:cheers: Country ~:cheers:

[Texas speech] It's Texas people, what'd y'all expect from this here country man? ~D [/Texas speech]

Craterus

09-01-2005, 15:31

:bow:

At least someone agrees with you, it's just a shame that it's yourself... ~;)

Geoffrey S

09-01-2005, 16:01

There must be some Mogwai fans around here? Perhaps even Godspeed You! Black Emperor?

Taurus

09-01-2005, 16:19

At least someone agrees with you, it's just a shame that it's yourself... ~;)

Only one thing I can say to that...
http://thugradio.net/cover-2pac-greatesthits.jpg

ichi

09-01-2005, 16:26

Thats like saying, what do you prefer . wine or beer( that includes scotch, bourban,gin, vodka, ouzo)
It just aint the same and should not be categorized as such!

Brilliant!

Gah!

I listen to great music, regardless of the labels

ichi ~:cheers:

Divine Wind

09-01-2005, 16:37

Only one thing I can say to that...
http://thugradio.net/cover-2pac-greatesthits.jpg

Ah yes the dead rapper that is still releasing singles...beyond the grave...ohhh! :fainting:

Isnt it bout time they let the guy R.I.P.

Oh and Rock music all the way!

Craterus

09-01-2005, 16:39

Only one thing I can say to that...
http://thugradio.net/cover-2pac-greatesthits.jpg

Precisely the reason I voted both. There are legends in both genres.

Taurus

09-01-2005, 16:47

Ah yes the dead rapper that is still releasing singles...beyond the grave...ohhh! :fainting:

Isnt it bout time they let the guy R.I.P.

I agree with you there. It is ridiculous that people are still making money out of him while he is no longer with us. :bow:

Del Arroyo

09-01-2005, 18:35

Linkin Park is possibly the worst musical group EVER!

Craterus

09-01-2005, 19:03

I agree with you there. It is ridiculous that people are still making money out of him while he is no longer with us. :bow:

Not at all. People can still enjoy his music, even though he is dead. He had some great demos that were never heard by the public. Most of those are on the new album "Loyal to the Game".

Van Gogh is still enjoyed even though he is dead, as are many artists, why not the same for 2pac?

King Arthur

09-01-2005, 19:05

both are very good genres as shown by RUN DMC And aerosmith on 'Walk this way'
but i have to go with Rap , as it has given the world Public Enemy. some the most controversial and challenging artists of th80/90s

Taurus

09-01-2005, 19:20

Not at all. People can still enjoy his music, even though he is dead. He had some great demos that were never heard by the public. Most of those are on the new album "Loyal to the Game".

Van Gogh is still enjoyed even though he is dead, as are many artists, why not the same for 2pac?

I didn't say that his music shouldn't be enjoyed, just that people should stop making money out of him by releasing songs again.

Craterus

09-01-2005, 19:30

Yes, but some aren't being released again... Some are being released for the first time because they weren't released when he was alive..

Axeknight

09-01-2005, 19:40

They say that ya play too loud,
Well baby that's tough
They say that ya got too much,
Can't get enough
They tell ya that ya look a fool,
Well baby I'm a fool for you
They say that your mind's diseased,
Shake your stuff

Cause it's a Rock 'N' Roll Damnation,
Ma's own whipping boy
Rock 'N' Roll Damnation,
Take a chance, while ya still got the choice!

Zalmoxis

09-01-2005, 22:40

Taurus

09-01-2005, 23:57

Yes, but some aren't being released again... Some are being released for the first time because they weren't released when he was alive..

Yes but with the likes of Elton John singing in them so he gets a load of cash too. :shame:

Craterus

09-02-2005, 00:11

Yes, but he sung on the song, so it is fair that he gets some. He probably gets more than his fair share, but he gives a lot to charity anyway.

ichi

09-02-2005, 00:15

Linkin Park is possibly the worst musical group EVER!

Xactly, they are poster boys for what is wrong with the music industry today.

ichi :bow:

Steppe Merc

09-02-2005, 01:48

There are some excellent new bands out today. But none of them are popular, and are really only known in the jam band circles. And most of them are from the South. The reason why I think they are so awesome is because they draw on the original roots of rock and roll (blues and country) while being excellent song writers as well as taking insperation from older bands, instead of new bands.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

09-02-2005, 03:26

I prefer classical, then some good marches, then some pop music
Same. But change the "pop" to AC/DC STYLE ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELL YA BABY! AC/DC üBER ALLES!

edyzmedieval

09-02-2005, 07:55

I guess the whole board is rock.

Anyone here likes Rammstein?!
I simply HATE it.

Taurus

09-02-2005, 08:48

Yes, but he sung on the song, so it is fair that he gets some. He probably gets more than his fair share, but he gives a lot to charity anyway.

Or so he says.

I guess the whole board is rock.

The whole board isn't rock.

Craterus

09-02-2005, 13:41

The whole board isn't rock.

Well, yes it is. There's a small minority that dares to be different, but this board is full of rock/metal fans. Maybe most TW gamers are rock fans.

Meneldil

09-02-2005, 15:10

Or maybe rap is evil.

King Henry V

09-02-2005, 15:44

Gentlemen,

This is a music thread. Leave your anger in the hockey rink or on the football field.

Besides, this is the kind of music I listen too...

Mr. Frank Sinatra

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/horsesass/frank.jpg

I dares ya to diss Frank! :knight:
May I remark upon your most excellent taste, Beirut.
And for all you *rap fans out there, have any of you noticed that Tupac spelt backwards is Caput?

Taurus

09-02-2005, 17:05

Well, yes it is. There's a small minority that dares to be different, but this board is full of rock/metal fans. Maybe most TW gamers are rock fans.

:no:

master of the puppets

09-03-2005, 03:01

i like every thing but rap.

beethoven, pink floyd, sexpistols, sanatra, mettalica, cradle of filth.

i just wish those rappers would learn to aim with there pistols and kill each other already. rid us of your presence please.

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 03:03

Or maybe rap is evil.
Nailed it on the head, IMHO. ~D

ArcticSonata

09-03-2005, 04:06

Thank God that most he people are sane, Metal Rules. thank God most of you know rap sucks long live metal. :charge:

Reverend Joe

09-03-2005, 04:17

Why must so many of us be so angry at rap? Why can't we all agree that we LOATHE Lawrence Whelk? That man created more awful music than all other genres combined. He made more bad songs than the Rolling Stones, and the Stones almost singlehandedly destroyed blues as we know it (them and Elvis).

Boy, some people are gonna be pissed at me now... I guess I'll be taking the heat off of you for a while, Taurus.

dessa14

09-03-2005, 04:25

i don't see how speaking fast ryme is talent, most people can do it...
the writing of some rock music is the same especially punk, anyone can play three chords over and over again.
thats my words.
thanks,
dizzy

Del Arroyo

09-03-2005, 06:30

Rap vs. Rock is about the culture, not the music. It has much more to do with race than lyrics.

DA

Strike For The South

09-03-2005, 06:33

Rap vs. Rock is about the culture, not the music. It has much more to do with race than lyrics.

DA

what a statement :dizzy2:

PanzerJaeger

09-03-2005, 07:31

No music ever made will ever come close to that of Led Zeppelin. Therefore I must choose rock, although I dont any of todays prepackaged "rock".

Rap is the music of the unwashed masses. There is only so much depth and artistic talent in a song about how many "hoes" a particular player has both brutally beat and impregnated. ~;)

Del Arroyo

09-03-2005, 07:39

Graphic

09-03-2005, 07:45

Geoffrey S

09-03-2005, 09:45

To put it simply, if your perception of the genre is that the songs are "about how many "hoes" a particular player has both brutally beat and impregnated" then you have only heard the small percentage of it that's played on MTV which means your opinions are based on ignorance.
Exactly. Seeing that stuff as representative of rap is akin to considering something like Good Charlotte good rock.

Axeknight

09-03-2005, 11:46

I'm not gonna ask.
Ya say that ya want respect,
Honey for what?
For all that ya done for me,
Thanks a lot
Get up off your bended knees,
You could set your mind at ease
My temperature's running hot,
I been waiting all night for a bite o' what ya got

And it's a Rock 'N' Roll Damnation,
Ma's own whippin' boy
Rock 'N' Roll Damnation,
Take a chance while ya still got the choice!

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 16:39

Rap vs. Rock is about the culture, not the music. It has much more to do with race than lyrics.

DA
Bull. I hate non music, thus I hate rap. I hate white folks that rap, and I like the original "black" music: blues and rock. It's not about race, it's about music. To claim otherwise is insulting.

Axeknight

09-03-2005, 17:12

Bull. I hate non music, thus I hate rap. I hate white folks that rap, and I like the original "black" music: blues and rock. It's not about race, it's about music. To claim otherwise is insulting.
Ten points to the man in the kaftan and crumpled velvet trousers there ~D .

If it were about culture/race, Rock 'N' Roll could never have been. Remember that R'N'R began as an offshoot of the blues

Del Arroyo

09-03-2005, 18:13

Bull. I hate non music, thus I hate rap. I hate white folks that rap, and I like the original "black" music: blues and rock. It's not about race, it's about music. To claim otherwise is insulting.

Bull. You don't hate rap for being "non-music"-- you hate it for what you believe it represents, and have never felt a need to delve deeper, because you are white.

You say you like the blues, well I've got news-- the blues ain't exactly the most musically complex genre there is, either. Compared to Mozart, or even Joplin, it is most certainly "non-music". I mean, if you listen to the real old recordings, you can listen to about five or six in a row that use the same exact music. Yet blues is great. What makes it special? The emotion.

Your feelings on rap are all wrapped up in several layers of hypocrisy. If you ever took a minute to look beyond Nelly and 50 Cent, you might see the other side.

DA

ArcticSonata

09-03-2005, 19:31

A lot of your guy's ignorance about rap music is staggering.

To put it simply, if your perception of the genre is that the songs are "about how many "hoes" a particular player has both brutally beat and impregnated" then you have only heard the small percentage of it that's played on MTV which means your opinions are based on ignorance.

Then again, I've had this argument dozens of times on the internet and it always leads to nowhere, so I'll leave it be...

If you seriously want to talk about miss concieved notions about music screw rap, lets talk metal. First off don't feel complian about us hating rap most of the masses love it. Secondly as for metal the number of misconcieved prejudice is stagering. First off its usally assumed that most metal heads only wear black, have half thier face plastered with metal studds, and usally bleed themselves regurally ( I am living proof that this is not true ). As for the music it self , iggnorant people, mostly rap listeners, believe that all metal is all about is the devil, killing and using the "F" word as many as possible times in a song ( also not true if you listened to alot of metal band though is true for some)

So before you call us iggnorant, take a good look at yourselves. And by the way half the stuff on MTV is Rap now, why I don't watch it.

I will give you that a few rappers have some tallent, but does any one here think guy with white towels rapped arround thier head talking fastly, to the sound of no real instruments is cool.

IrishMike

09-03-2005, 19:54

Rap just seems to have lost its soul. The early stuff had meaning and is quite alright with me. Modern rap now, except for your rare excpetion, has lost all meaning. It has no effect on the listen. Now rock on the other hand does. On a well played song you ride upon every guitar riff, and the solos can touch you. Never had a rap song do that to me.

King Henry V

09-03-2005, 20:02

Now this is a question for listeners of both types. Do you consider the music which you listen to to be beautiful?

Viking

09-03-2005, 20:03

Actually edyz, Linkin Park and Good Charlotte are the bands that suck. Get it straight.

How can you say that?? Good Charlotte Rocks.

Anyone here likes Rammstein?!
I simply HATE it.

Rammstein is cool. Face it. ~:cool:

Xactly, they are poster boys for what is wrong with the music industry today.

Or maybe you people are growing old? ~;)

Graphic

09-03-2005, 21:02

Now this is a question for listeners of both types. Do you consider the music which you listen to to be beautiful?Absolutely.

Graphic

09-03-2005, 21:20

If you seriously want to talk about miss concieved notions about music screw rap, lets talk metal. First off don't feel complian about us hating rap most of the masses love it. Secondly as for metal the number of misconcieved prejudice is stagering. First off its usally assumed that most metal heads only wear black, have half thier face plastered with metal studds, and usally bleed themselves regurally ( I am living proof that this is not true ). As for the music it self , iggnorant people, mostly rap listeners, believe that all metal is all about is the devil, killing and using the "F" word as many as possible times in a song ( also not true if you listened to alot of metal band though is true for some)

So before you call us iggnorant, take a good look at yourselves. And by the way half the stuff on MTV is Rap now, why I don't watch it.

I will give you that a few rappers have some tallent, but does any one here think guy with white towels rapped arround thier head talking fastly, to the sound of no real instruments is cool.You sure do assume a lot don't you. Who here's said anything like that about metal? On the other hand, people HAVE said ignorant things about rap music in here. You can take all that elsewhere.

The whole "no real instruments" argument is bull. Are composers of classical music talentless because they don't play the instruments themselves? I rest my case.

Also as time goes on things become instruments. Turntables and beat machines are used to create music and are therefore instruments by definition. It's such a hypocritical statement. Do you think Bach would consider electric guitars "real instruments"?

Whats funny to me is you guys don't remember that people were saying the exact same things about rock at one point.

"And by the way half the stuff on MTV is Rap now, why I don't watch it."

I meant all the rap that they play on MTV is only 1% of rap music that's out there and coming out.

PanzerJaeger

09-03-2005, 21:34

Case in point. You've never felt a need to actually learn about rap, have you?

Learn about rap. LoL! Is there a textbook?

Ive heard a lot more rap than you may think, and I have a hard time even classifying it as music.

A crappy beat, some rhymes, blah blah blah.. its all pretty much the same. I prefer music with more than one instrument, or even just one instrument that isnt actually a computer program. ~D

Graphic

09-03-2005, 21:37

mu·sic Audio pronunciation of "music" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (myzk)
n.

1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.
3.
1. A musical composition.
2. The written or printed score for such a composition.
3. Such scores considered as a group: We keep our music in a stack near the piano.
4. A musical accompaniment.
5. A particular category or kind of music.
6. An aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds: the music of the wind in the pines.

Do you really find it that hard to classify it as music?

Quietus

09-03-2005, 22:21

Problem with Rap: Good enough rhythm but no real instrument (and badly written lyrics).

Problem with Rock: Real instruments but lacking in rhythm (and there are too many blasted guitars).

Solution: Burning Spear (http://www.burningspear.net)

Copperhaired Berserker!

09-03-2005, 22:25

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 22:42

Now this is a question for listeners of both types. Do you consider the music which you listen to to be beautiful?
Yes.

Do you really find it that hard to classify it as music?
Yes.
There is no guitar, bango, fiddle, drums, jug, washboard, harmonica, cello, bass, pedal steel, mandolin, tuba, trumpet, jaw harp, etc.

Bull. You don't hate rap for being "non-music"-- you hate it for what you believe it represents, and have never felt a need to delve deeper, because you are white.

You say you like the blues, well I've got news-- the blues ain't exactly the most musically complex genre there is, either. Compared to Mozart, or even Joplin, it is most certainly "non-music". I mean, if you listen to the real old recordings, you can listen to about five or six in a row that use the same exact music. Yet blues is great. What makes it special? The emotion.

Your feelings on rap are all wrapped up in several layers of hypocrisy. If you ever took a minute to look beyond Nelly and 50 Cent, you might see the other side.
Right, first off, most white people in my school like rap and hip hop because it's "cool". There aren't a large amount of black people in my school, and yet almost everyone in my school likes rap. Now why would that be? Bad music spands all races. Same with good music. Me being white is irrelevant. And yes, I do hate it for what it represents: no talented, non musicians.

And why would I compare it to Mozart of Joplin? I don't like that stuff. I don't compare what I like to what I don't. I just listen to what I like, and there isn't any reason to try and expand what I like. Yeah I find new bands, but there isn't any reason to expand the genres I already like.
And yes, I do like blues. And because their are musicians and instruments, it's music. And it is about the emotion, the musician's emotion. No musicians and no instruments = not music.

Ten points to the man in the kaftan and crumpled velvet trousers there ~D .

If it were about culture/race, Rock 'N' Roll could never have been. Remember that R'N'R began as an offshoot of the blues
Cheers to the axe weilding iron clad fellow. ~:cheers:
Oh, and they're silk trousers. ~;)

Graphic

09-03-2005, 22:42

Copperhair:

Who decides what is or isn't rubbish, and therefore is or isn't music? You!? Please...

Graphic

09-03-2005, 22:48

Yes.
There is no guitar, bango, fiddle, drums, jug, washboard, harmonica, cello, bass, pedal steel, mandolin, tuba, trumpet, jaw harp, etc.You'd be surprised. And not programmed either.

It doesn't matter anyway. A composition doesn't need to have a claranet to be music. All it really needs is rhythm which rap possesses.

Big King Sanctaphrax

09-03-2005, 22:50

If we get any more veiled accusations of racism, this is getting closed/moved to the backroom.

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 22:52

You'd be surprised. And not programmed either.

It doesn't matter anyway. A composition doesn't need to have a claranet to be music. All it really needs is rhythm which rap possesses.
Of course it doesn't need a calerenet. Do you think I listen to calarnet music? No. But it needs more than rythym.

Graphic

09-03-2005, 23:01

But it needs more than rythym.Not to be categorized as music by everyone besides biased people like you.
I suggest you do move it to the backroom, because there is alot to be said for the racist and sexist undertones in most rap music, and I would certainly like to talk about it.False.

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 23:12

Graphic

09-03-2005, 23:20

Eh, I can't agree with you there Cube, at least not a hundred percent. A logical person should be able to tell the different between a song and real life. Maxwell Silverhammer by the Beatles is about a wacko going about murdering people with a hammer. Doesn't mean Beatles fans went about killing people with hammers.
I think that a link between any sort of media and violence and drugs is extremely unfair. Because if a person is dumb enough to emulate something on TV or in a song or a video game, they are just dumb, and probably would end up doing it anyway.Didn't expect that to come from you, but yeah, exactly.

The stuff that is about drugs, violence, & poverty is just that: they're about those things. I find it funny when people use the word "promote" as if the summary of the lyrics were "You should murder people and smoke drugs, seriously!"

There is a subgenre though called "horrorcore" that does have songs like that but it's so absurd and corny that no one takes it seriously except Insane Clown Posse fans, who I don't like to categorize as rap music anyways.

ah_dut

09-03-2005, 23:22

A lot of your guy's ignorance about rap music is staggering.

To put it simply, if your perception of the genre is that the songs are "about how many "hoes" a particular player has both brutally beat and impregnated" then you have only heard the small percentage of it that's played on MTV which means your opinions are based on ignorance.

Then again, I've had this argument dozens of times on the internet and it always leads to nowhere, so I'll leave it be...
I don't like rap, artistic choice. Yes, I do accept there is a hell of a lot more to the genre than bitches hoes and gun violence. I listen to some rap, most of it that I hear on the other hand is complete codswallop.

I choose to like metal, rock and old pop/rock music like Floyd and Zepplin...I also listen to Mozart, Beethoven and Ray Charles ~D I can and will listen to everything bar Jpop and Canto/Mando pop...and yes, I am from Hong Kong. The stuff is just horrible.

You must accept though, most ''mainstream'' rap is pretty crap.

Oh and for the record, Good Charllote is pop...face it

Big King Sanctaphrax

09-03-2005, 23:24

I think people are forgetting that, as much as we like to objectify them through reviews, best album lists, and the like, all judgements we make on music are purely aesthetic.

A year or so ago, you'd have found be ranting about how much I disliked rap music, how I hated it, and how terrible it was generally. Although I still don't listen to it, and can't really understand how anyone could, I've come to the conclusion that it's just not my cup of tea-and that's all there is to it. Any attempts to state otherwise have about as much objective merit as arguing about your favourite colour. It also stresses you out big-time, which is not something any self-respecting hippie wants to do.

Graphic

09-03-2005, 23:25

I don't like rap, artistic choice. Yes, I do accept there is a hell of a lot more to the genre than bitches hoes and gun violence. I listen to some rap, most of it that I hear on the other hand is complete codswallop.

You must accept though, most ''mainstream'' rap is pretty crap.Thank you, this is a response I can respect.

I do acknowledge that the vast majority of mainstream rap is awful. 50 Cent, Nelly, Chingy, etc...flaming garbage. I listen to mostly either underground stuff or old stuff. It's that non garbage stuff that I'm defending here. If all of rap really was about "bitches and hoes," I'd hate it just as much.

But it's not ~D

Steppe Merc

09-03-2005, 23:26

Hell I'd be a hypocrit if I claimed music that was about drugs was evil. A lot of my favorite music is inspired by, or about drugs. Nothing particullary overt (usually), but it's obvious if you know what to look for. If people started banning rap because of some of it's less than legal topics, then the Grateful Dead, Beatles, Bob Dylan, Neil Young and whole bunch more would have to be banned.

Even blues could be considered "sexist", if only because most of it is about the loss of a woman, or her cruelty. However, according to some of the really old guys, it was the woman was a "code" for their boss man, since they couldn't sing about how much he sucked, since they'd get in trouble or lynched, they sang about how their woman sucked.

Anyway, rock and roll and blues has a lot about mind affecting substances and sex. Not much has changed, save it's a lot more obvious.

ArcticSonata

09-03-2005, 23:33

I guess the whole board is rock.

Anyone here likes Rammstein?!
I simply HATE it.

( Sarcastically)I know Rammstein like, totally suck man, those whiny vocals, little whimpy band members, never have done anything that endangered them on stage, nad they are just so light. Good Charolote and Black Eyed Pea are so much better ( cough, cough)

Seriously what do you even base your dislike of them on? How many Song of theres have you even? And I am interested as to what your definition of good music is?

Rammstein is 1#

Strike For The South

09-03-2005, 23:37

geez it dosent matter rap or rock becuase at the end of the day COUNTRY is the only one left ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

Graphic

09-03-2005, 23:39

The artists themselves probably don't intend for their songs to promote racism and whatnot, but the result is the same whether the artists intended it or not.

The kids wanna be like the people in the songs. Doin' drugs, packin' a gun, screwing bitches and pimpin' hoes. The kids who listen to rap are no smarter than kids who listen to other kinds of music--they're impressionable.So are you promoting censorship? Unless it's slandering an individual or inciting riots or something, it's not a person's responsability to worry about how freely expressing himself in the United States is going to effect others. It's those children's parents responsability to guard them from potentially harmful material. The obvious counter to that is that a lot of kids don't have responsible parents, or parents at all. But again, that's not the fault of the rappers or whoever else expressing themselves and people need to look at the real reasons for that.

Blaming rappers, Tarantino movies, Mortal Kombat or any artistic medium for the ills of society is a cop out.

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 00:00

You sure do assume a lot don't you. Who here's said anything like that about metal? On the other hand, people HAVE said ignorant things about rap music in here. You can take all that elsewhere.

The whole "no real instruments" argument is bull. Are composers of classical music talentless because they don't play the instruments themselves? I rest my case.

Also as time goes on things become instruments. Turntables and beat machines are used to create music and are therefore instruments by definition. It's such a hypocritical statement. Do you think Bach would consider electric guitars "real instruments"?

Whats funny to me is you guys don't remember that people were saying the exact same things about rock at one point.

"And by the way half the stuff on MTV is Rap now, why I don't watch it."

I meant all the rap that they play on MTV is only 1% of rap music that's out there and coming out.

I said that a few rapers have some talent at what they do, though most of them don't. What classical artist are you exactly referring to, most I do know did play the instrument they wrote for. Honestely I believe they would probably consider most rock instrument as instrument, they where progressive people won't they and people played them. Beat boxes and turntable seem to take to little human involement and talent. If you can prove differently it may at least slighty improve my view of rap.

I assume nothing this IS the additude people take towards metal in most cases, this one of the few place metal/ rock is top, usally its a few metal head amungst the masses of rap lovers. Any way if your going to bring that up whats is your honest opinion of metal I am glad this is one of the few place rap is bashed openly.

Thats such bull you act as if rap wash a fringe genre, ook around you this is one of the few places against rap.

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 00:08

Thank you, this is a response I can respect.

I do acknowledge that the vast majority of mainstream rap is awful. 50 Cent, Nelly, Chingy, etc...flaming garbage. I listen to mostly either underground stuff or old stuff. It's that non garbage stuff that I'm defending here. If all of rap really was about "bitches and hoes," I'd hate it just as much.

But it's not ~D

If most rap was you say I could at least respect it, though no not like it.
The fact is what most of the rap is today is like that. It kind of like me and Hip Hop I don't like it but atleast I can respect it for what it is.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 00:08

That doesn't change the fact that it is a huge contributor to the fact that ghettos still exist in this country.Wow. Just wow.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 00:23

I said that a few rapers have some talent at what they do, though most of them don't.You haven't heard most rappers though, so this is an ignorant statement.
What classical artist are you exactly referring to, most I do know did play the instrument they wrote for.Possibly, but don't you consider someone writing sheet music to be a musician? How is that different from someone programming a beat? Even still, programming beats usually involves playing out the layers on a keyboard. Doesn't the keyboard take talent? Doesn't your beloeved Rammstein have keyboards in it?
Beat boxes and turntable seem to take to little human involement and talent. If you can prove differently it may at least slighty improve my view of rap.Firstly, beat boxing is making beat sounds with your mouth. Secondly, this is a completely absurd statement. You must know less than I thought to think turntabling (i.e. "scratching") and beat production takes little talent.

http://www.foultone.com/Photos/Studio/asr-mackie2.jpg

This is an ASR-10, one of the most widely used pieces of equipment in hip-hop for beat making. Look at it, it's a keyboard, like Rammstein!!! It's a keyboard-plus! Look at all the buttons and knobs and stuff on it! Someone would have to know how to play the keyboard, an instrument, to program a good beat! Imagine all the training in musical equipment it would take to know what all those little knobbies do! My, it might even take skill!
Thats such bull you act as if rap wash a fringe genre, ook around you this is one of the few places against rap.Huh?

Axeknight

09-04-2005, 00:26

Cheers to the axe weilding iron clad fellow. ~:cheers:
Oh, and they're silk trousers. ~;)
Silk? Oh, so less Jimmy Page and more Jefferson Airplane? :hippy:

By the way, it's more like the denim clad, AC/DC T-shirt wielding fellow ~D

Do I consider Rock 'N' Roll beautiful? Yes, of course, but there's different kinds of beautiful. AC/DC's beauty lies in the unadulterated fun that is Bon Scott's singing and songwriting, and the merciless brilliance of Ang and Mal's duelling lead guitars. It's not buttercups and daisies on a warm summer's day beautiful, but it's still beautiful music in my opinion because there's no better way to forget whatever troubles you have, throw off the shackles and just capital-letters ROCK! Led Zeppelin is beautiful because of their amazing musicianship. With Iron Maiden, it's complex and compelling songwriting. The Stones are a rhythm section so tight I don't think Charlie Watts has ever been half a beat out in his entire life, with a mesmerizing frontman and fascinating interplay between the Glimmer Twins. There's all different types and reasons to see beauty in art.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 00:27

Wow yourself buddy. Does that conflict with your personal world image? The Rap Industry has gone from something heart-felt and rebellious to just another corporation. It cannot exist without that ghetto-gangster lifestyle to draw upon. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, alot of people (alot being an understatement) do take that "music" seriously, and do not advance in life, remaining in the ghettos. It sure isn't the only reason, but by god it's a big one.If it's a reason at all and it's the smallest one if it is. You honestly think rap music makes people want to live in poverty? You honestly think rap music causes poverty? I don't know about everyone else but I think the economy, poor school systems, etc far outweigh what's MTV as the causes for poverty. There are ghettos in first world countries where rap isn't popular, bub.

BTW, poverty was at it's worse in America in the 80's, when rap was still "heart felt", and along with the rise of violence, sex and drug subjects in rap music, poverty and crime has steadily gone down. Does this mean rap causes peace!? ~:eek:

It's a completely absurd argument, period.

BTW again, 75% of purchasers of rap music are rich white kids, as some people here have confirmed with personal experience, and it doesn't cause them to sink into poverty.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 00:37

Rap causes kids to think they don't need an education. Rap causes, or at least gives cultural justification for, crime. Those are two very large factors in the continued existance of ghettos.

Don't get me wrong, there are other factors. This nations racist past being a (if not the) prime contibutor. But to rule out rap just because you happen to be smart enough not to take it seriously is being naive.As I edited in (probably after you clicked quote) there were ghettos before rap music and there are ghettos in the absence of rap music. There is no proof whatsoever that Rap has any effect on it.

Copperhaired Berserker!

09-04-2005, 00:39

geez it dosent matter rap or rock becuase at the end of the day COUNTRY is the only one left ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
Too true! I like Eric Bogle and all of them people. why? because they have a meaning. Graphic, in my post, i meant stuff like 2 pac, nelly, 50 cent, and the rest. I haven't heard any good rap, so I classify it as tosh. Who knows, I might find a godd rap song. but I think they get filtered out by Mcfly and Busted and avril lageine (sp?) and what not.

Big King Sanctaphrax

09-04-2005, 00:46

Silk? Oh, so less Jimmy Page and more Jefferson Airplane?

I've been trying to find trousers like those Jimmy wore at the Earlscourt concert-the ones with dragons on-for an age. I'm afraid that they don't exist. It's a travesty, it really is.

That was a great post, by the way. Personally I find the Floyd's breathtaking soundscapes and complex arrangements, along with Dave Gilmour's scintillating, delay drenched soloing, beautiful.

Strike For The South

09-04-2005, 00:57

It is not the cause of ghettos, it is a sustaining factor.
enlighten my desert friend

Graphic

09-04-2005, 00:59

It is not the cause of ghettos, it is a sustaining factor.Ghettos are sustained in the absence of rap music and were sustained before it...

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 01:00

[QUOTE=Graphic]You haven't heard most rappers though, so this is an ignorant statement.

Then why don't you, oh wise one, enlighten me, what I have heard that was rap was bad.

Possibly, but don't you consider someone writing sheet music to be a musician? How is that different from someone programming a beat? Even still, programming beats usually involves playing out the layers on a keyboard. Doesn't the keyboard take talent? Doesn't your beloeved Rammstein have keyboards in it?Firstly, beat boxing is making beat sounds with your mouth. Secondly, this is a completely absurd statement. You must know less than I thought to think turntabling (i.e. "scratching") and beat production takes little talent.

That is why I said that if you could show other wise, my opinion might bechanged slightly since I am not overtly knowledgeable about what is used.

This is an ASR-10, one of the most widely used pieces of equipment in hip-hop for beat making. Look at it, it's a keyboard, like Rammstein!!! It's a keyboard-plus! Look at all the buttons and knobs and stuff on it! Someone would have to know how to play the keyboard, an instrument, to program a good beat! Imagine all the training in musical equipment it would take to know what all those little knobbies do! My, it might even take skill!

Have your even even thouched a keyboard in your life? Or any instrument for that matter? Do you even know what does "knobies" do? The electronics and programming simply give the key board different sounds, what come out still depend on how you play just like regular piano. The "knobies" as you refer to them, is a soundboard for the keyboard work to distrort, sound change pitch, ect. You do not like it when I am "iggnorant", so don't rant on about keyboards if you don't know how they function( and yes have have played keyboard, for going on a decade now ) wether being sarcastic or seriously and I won't do the same with rap anymore. If that is what they use than will conceed that they at least have one instrument that takes talent, though I have never heard it.

Huh?

Bad spelling. What I am saying is that you defend rap as if it is unknown to people, look around you and you will find that in most places rap is the music of the masses.

And you still have not my question as to your honest oppinion of metal. If you as a rap lover have something respectfull to say about it you are one of the few I have known.

Axeknight

09-04-2005, 01:02

I've been trying to find trousers like those Jimmy wore at the Earlscourt concert-the ones with dragons on-for an age. I'm afraid that they don't exist. It's a travesty, it really is.

That was a great post, by the way. Personally I find the Floyd's breathtaking soundscapes and complex arrangements, along with Dave Gilmour's scintillating, delay drenched soloing, beautiful.
I know the ones you mean, funnily enough. He wore them at Oakland on the '77 tour as well. These (http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~lamaon/lamaon3.htm) or these, though? (http://www.charlieanderson.com/images/Various/JimmyPage.jpg)

And thank you. Yes, Gilmour's 'Comfortably Numb' solo is one of my all-time favourite solos (just behind Gilby Clarke's 'Wild Horses' arrangement from the Guns N' Roses Use Your Illusion 1992 tour dates and Mick Taylor's 'Shine A Light' solo).

Graphic

09-04-2005, 01:21

[QUOTE=Graphic]Have your even even thouched a keyboard in your life? Or any instrument for that matter? Do you even know what does "knobies" do? The electronics and programming simply give the key board different sounds, what come out still depend on how you play just like regular piano. The "knobies" as you refer to them, is a soundboard for the keyboard work to distrort, sound change pitch, ect. You do not like it when I am "iggnorant", so don't rant on about keyboards if you don't know how they function( and yes have have played keyboard, for going on a decade now ) wether being sarcastic or seriously and I won't do the same with rap anymore. If that is what they use than will conceed that they at least have one instrument that takes talent, though I have never heard it.Yes, I was being sarcastic. All I'm saying is that's what they use and it takes talent to use it, which I guess you yourself can confirm.

What I am saying is that you defend rap as if it is unknown to people, look around you and you will find that in most places rap is the music of the masses.I defend rap as it's true nature is unknown to people, even the "rap loving masses"

And you still have not my question as to your honest oppinion of metal. If you as a rap lover have something respectfull to say about it you are one of the few I have known.I don't have an opinion on metal because I don't know very much about it. Just as you should abstain from having an opinion on rap when you don't know very much of it.

You admitted that you didn't know at all what's used to make beats but some how you believe "beat boxes and turntable seem to take to little human involement and talent." I'm nice enough not to bash your music because I don't know anything about it. It's fine not to like it but don't bash it if you don't even know what it is, that's just lame.

To put it bluntly, the bashers here need to learn about it or be quiet, it's that simple.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 01:27

Basically I'm saying this: The sustaining factor for poverty and crime is what caused it in the first place not being rectified. The continuing of it is due to the continued presence of the cause of it. Rap music factors in very little compared to the causing factors.

Big King Sanctaphrax

09-04-2005, 01:29

Seeing as we seem to be looking at the socio-political implications of rap now, I'm going to move this to the backroom.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 01:35

It's all good in the hood ~:cool:

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 01:36

[QUOTE=ArcticSonata]Yes, I was being sarcastic. All I'm saying is that's what they use and it takes talent to use it, which I guess you yourself can confirm.

I defend rap as it's true nature is unknown to people, even the "rap loving masses"

I don't have an opinion on metal because I don't know very much about it. Just as you should abstain from having an opinion on rap when you don't know very much of it.

You admitted that you didn't know at all what's used to make beats but some how you believe "beat boxes and turntable seem to take to little human involement and talent." I'm nice enough not to bash your music because I don't know anything about it. It's fine not to like it but don't bash it if you don't even know what it is, that's just lame.

To put it bluntly, the bashers here need to learn about it or be quiet, it's that simple.

True, true I did not know what instruments where used , but like every person here has heard some form of Rap ( I guess most of us have not heard the god sent rap ) and can form our own opinions, appearently the rap you know is not the rap most of us know.

However to say that you don't have at least a preconcived notion about metal is just not true. People have preconcieved notions about everything, I am sure you have even heard at least small bit of metal, you apearently knew Rammstein had a keyboard. So come on give your deep down view about metal though you do not know much you like everyone else has views even on stuff they don't know as well as others.

Zalmoxis

09-04-2005, 01:39

Seeing as we seem to be looking at the socio-political implications of rap now, I'm going to move this to the backroom.
But tthe backroom is scary!

Big King Sanctaphrax

09-04-2005, 01:40

But tthe backroom is scary!

It's the price you pay for being able to drink big-boy's drinks. ~D

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 01:53

And by the way graphic I believe there are a few metal bashing post here with no reason (easymidevil, rammstein, Cough)

Graphic

09-04-2005, 01:54

[QUOTE=Graphic]
However to say that you don't have at least a preconcived notion about metal is just not true. People have preconcieved notions about everything, I am sure you have even heard at least small bit of metal, you apearently knew Rammstein had a keyboard. So come on give your deep down view about metal though you do not know much you like everyone else has views even on stuff they don't know as well as others.Honestly, without knowing much about it, there's not much I can think to say besides it's not my style. That's metal, if you asked me about rock in general I could talk a bit because there are plenty of songs here and there that I like, usually classic rock.

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 01:58

[QUOTE=ArcticSonata]Honestly, without knowing much about it, there's not much I can think to say besides it's not my style. That's metal, if you asked me about rock in general I could talk a bit because there are plenty of songs here and there that I like, usually classic rock.

Okay Classic rock

Graphic

09-04-2005, 02:03

A lot of it's great, especially the late 60's stuff when it was psychadellic. I like it but not enough to buy the albums, but if a song happens to come on somewhere I listen. I like a lot of other genres in that way like jazz and classical.

Satisfied?

PanzerJaeger

09-04-2005, 02:04

Do you really find it that hard to classify it as music?

Well, under the strictest sense I suppose Rap could be considered music. However, that "music" that consists of nothing more than the most basic, tribal elements does not belong out of the stone age.

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 02:14

Rrrrriiiighhhhhtttttt. Rap has at least two thng that can be considered instruments and some rapers do have talent ( which I said before )
Beside that what Panzer said to each his own, but I still will bash rap at will ( it needs to be with all the metalbashers out there, amazingly you are one of the few who are Not)

sharrukin

09-04-2005, 02:19

Well, under the strictest sense I suppose Rap could be considered music. However, that "music" that consists of nothing more than the most basic, tribal elements does not belong out of the stone age.

Thats being a little disrespectful of the stone age IMO. They would probably have clubbed someone to death who sounded that bad.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 02:27

Well, under the strictest sense I suppose Rap could be considered music. However, that "music" that consists of nothing more than the most basic, tribal elements does not belong out of the stone age.Yeah. I bet cavemen could create beats with ASR-10's and SP 1200's, write lyrics with multi-syllable rhyming, and scratch on the level of DJ Q-Bert...

Steppe Merc

09-04-2005, 02:27

Silk? Oh, so less Jimmy Page and more Jefferson Airplane? :hippy:

By the way, it's more like the denim clad, AC/DC T-shirt wielding fellow ~D

Do I consider Rock 'N' Roll beautiful? Yes, of course, but there's different kinds of beautiful. AC/DC's beauty lies in the unadulterated fun that is Bon Scott's singing and songwriting, and the merciless brilliance of Ang and Mal's duelling lead guitars. It's not buttercups and daisies on a warm summer's day beautiful, but it's still beautiful music in my opinion because there's no better way to forget whatever troubles you have, throw off the shackles and just capital-letters ROCK! Led Zeppelin is beautiful because of their amazing musicianship. With Iron Maiden, it's complex and compelling songwriting. The Stones are a rhythm section so tight I don't think Charlie Watts has ever been half a beat out in his entire life, with a mesmerizing frontman and fascinating interplay between the Glimmer Twins. There's all different types and reasons to see beauty in art.
Well in reality it's tie dye and jeans, but I figured the silk pants would fit more with the kaftan wearing Iranian nomad image. ~;)

And I agree 100%. The music I like is beatiful in different ways. The clean, almost circular nature of Jerry's guitar solos, along with his sincere voice is beatiful, as is the soft aucostic with the harmonies of Crosby Stills and Nash, as is Neil Young's distortion drenched guitar with his shaky vocals, as is Bob Dylan's unique voice paired either with a solo aucostic guitar, or the Band.

That was a great post, by the way. Personally I find the Floyd's breathtaking soundscapes and complex arrangements, along with Dave Gilmour's scintillating, delay drenched soloing, beautiful.
Agreed! Their songs, even more so the entire albums, are just so amazing.

sharrukin

09-04-2005, 02:28

Yeah. I bet cavemen could create beats with ASR-10's and SP 1200's, write lyrics with multi-syllable rhyming, and scratch on the level of DJ Q-Bert...

No actually they could do a better job with bones and a rock.

Steppe Merc

09-04-2005, 02:31

I must say, I much prefer the simplicity of a jug, washboard, bango and jaw harp...

And a lot of traditional African music is really good. You can really see the roots of the blues in a lot of their traditional music. They had funky stringed instruments, and other really interesting stuff.

PanzerJaeger

09-04-2005, 02:37

Yeah. I bet cavemen could create beats with ASR-10's and SP 1200's, write lyrics with multi-syllable rhyming, and scratch on the level of DJ Q-Bert...

Yes, please regale me with more of the greatness that is DJ Q-Bert! Im laughing so hard my drink is almost coming out of my nose! I can hardly type! :laugh4:

Seriously though, it amazes me how much credibility some people try to give to such a low area of culture.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 02:38

Seriously though, it amazes me how ignorant some people are in their opinions about such a misunderstood area of culture.

Quietus

09-04-2005, 02:48

Seriously though, it amazes me how ignorant some people are in their opinions about such a misunderstood area of culture. Rap/Hip-Hop is urban music and not just limited to the ghetto.

It's already mainstream and has deeply infiltrated and penetrated Suburbia.

ArcticSonata

09-04-2005, 02:49

Seriously though, it amazes me how ignorant some people are in their opinions about such a misunderstood area of culture.

Misunderstood and mainstream, where is this amazing non mainstream rap, like I have said before rap is overated and listtened to much by to many people, metal is what is misunderstood.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 03:21

Misunderstood and mainstream, where is this amazing non mainstream rap, like I have said before rap is overated and listtened to much by to many people, metal is what is misunderstood.I mean the music is misunderstood, by people not into it and by most rap fans too, because what it's understood to be is the violent and sexual stuff that's portrayed in pop culture. That is NOT a fair representation of the music as a whole. I'm saying you think it's inferior because all you know of is that horrible stuff on TV which isn't even your fault. If you all knew of the serious stuff and not gangsta rap, I'm sure those of you with a just a partially open mind would at least respect it as an artform, even though you wouldn't particularly like it.

A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, The Roots, Prince Paul, Dan the Automator, J-Live, MF Doom, MF Grimm, Madlib, MC Paul Barman, El-P, Company Flow, Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, Sage Francis, Genius, Jungle Brothers, KRS-One, Rakim, Cannibal Ox, Gang Starr, Masta Ace, on into infinity...

Graphic

09-04-2005, 03:42

Once again Graphic. Just because you don't take it literally does not mean the majority of listerns don't. ~:confused: I'm not talking about that right now

AntiochusIII

09-04-2005, 04:12

~:confused: I'm not talking about that right nowI suppose people suggests that rap is overrated in the fact that the mainstream rap - the majority of it - is gangsta rap, something immensely popular among teenagers, which are easily influenced by music and the "cool" factor. And, of course, taking from your context, I presume that you too, despite your protection of rap, dislikes them, and know how they carry negative messages such as drug is cool, let's make love with your one-day boyfriend, and gangsters with guns are supposed to be hot?

Everything's often better if they're indy, including rap. ~:cool:

dessa14

09-04-2005, 05:42

has anyone noticed that those that voted that they prefer rap and hiphop are 04/05 people, hows that for stratification?
need a forum for oldies.... so we can bitch about young ones.
:D
thanks,
dizzy

Del Arroyo

09-04-2005, 07:07

To SteppeMerc: You don't care about Scott Joplin? He was one of the masters of ragtime, which is to swing and jazz as blues is to rock and roll.

And if you proclaim willful ignorance of broad swaths of historically and peripherally important musical genres, then who the hell are you to be making pronouncements? If you've no interest in looking beyond what your background and your fancy have exposed you to, that's fine, but shut your trap.

To GelCube: I agree with you that there are a LOT of problems with Hip-Hop culture, but they have less to do with music and much more to do with reactionary segregationism in the black community. Sectors of the black community have responded to the possibility of integration with a reactionary desire to maintain an exagerated 'difference' and a lazy lifestyle-- this is natural, it would have happened anyway, and it is fading.

And it has nothing to do with music.

At any rate, I'd like to pretty much say-- "what Graphic said" ~;) I personally find most MTV "hip-hop" just as hard to listen to as I do MTV "rock". But MTV isn't representative of the real good in either genre.

..

As far as a personal note, I grew up in a polite white suburb in the MidWest, missed the Hip-Hop Craze in highschool by about a year and haven't been to college, so just by sheer demographics I am a Rock person ~:cool:

Travelling and being exposed to people from different parts of the US (and people who had been to college) sort of made me rethink some of my thoughts on rap, but a real appreciation has been sort of a recent epiphany. Being back in the US and missing my Salsa music, I happened to hear a bit of underground rap on the radio a few times, and it clicked-- hey, this stuff has a pretty good rhythm! You could dance to this! And it is pleasant to listen to!

Tho if you ask me what we really need to get on the airwaves here is some freaking Son Cubano. Lotta luck with that tho outside of Miami, cuz most of the Mexicans we get up here are banda-loving peasant-types.

..

Also, as a quick note, I have not meant to imply that anyone here is racist, nor do I believe it to be true. Instead of 'race' I should have said 'demographics'. Because that is the deciding factor in most people's musical choices. There's nothing wrong with that, but when people who chose music for demographics start spouting their mouths about how stuff they know nothing about sucks, they got another thing coming, IMHO.

DA

dessa14

09-04-2005, 07:15

you know what is good...
European ELECTRONICA!!!, from the late nineties.
otherwise i like most of the poppy dance songs.
thanks,
dizzy

PanzerJaeger

09-04-2005, 07:27

Also, as a quick note, I have not meant to imply that anyone here is racist, nor do I believe it to be true. Instead of 'race' I should have said 'demographics'. Because that is the deciding factor in most people's musical choices. There's nothing wrong with that, but when people who chose music for demographics start spouting their mouths about how stuff they know nothing about sucks, they got another thing coming, IMHO.

So would you say that Rap is culturally black music and Rock is culturally white music? I know a lot of Eminem and Hendrix fans that wouldnt agree. ~:confused:

I think it has a lot to do with class and education. The more advanced you are as a person, the more you appreciate music that incorporates musical talent and meaningful verse.

Its like a sliding scale, with rap at the bottom with its repetitive tribal beats and classical symphonic at the top with its refined integration of hundreds of talented artists.

Graphic

09-04-2005, 08:47

Yet you fail to realize that rap music incorporates musical talent and meaningful verses. You flaunt your sad ignorance each time you refer to rap as "tribal music." Seek knowledge, unknowledgable one.

Copperhaired Berserker!

09-04-2005, 10:24

Graphic, face it. This is (rightly) a anti-rap fourm. You tell me rap is good. Open your eyes! You get stuff like,"Take me to the candy shop(50 cent)" or "Rock you body and shake it(by MVP, the guy who thinks bikini girls are essential to a video.)" So there is no point in argueing. You've actually de-railed this topic because of a opinion!

Lazul

09-04-2005, 11:05

I say both, and sometimes combine them and rap to rock... ~:)

BUT, most rap sucks, specially the mainstreem 'Im gonna f**k your moma' kinda rap.
Instead listen to rap like -> Loop troop, and their lead singer/rapper Promoe.

Spetulhu

09-04-2005, 11:07

BTW again, 75% of purchasers of rap music are rich white kids, as some people here have confirmed with personal experience, and it doesn't cause them to sink into poverty.

Quite right. It just makes them buy baggy designer jeans, hooded college shirts and a baseball cap to wear backwards. And sneakers expensive enough to kill for in a real ghetto. Rap and hiphop is the new way of rebelling against your parents by looking silly and listening to music they don't understand.

Yes, I do think they look silly. No, I don't really understand the music. The words are usually clear enough to hear, but they're spoken in some incomprehensible English dialect. :furious3:

Geoffrey S

09-04-2005, 11:21

Jeez, I just can't fathom this nonsense. So many people here post about rap referring to the stereotypes which abound on MTV or in the media. It's not all about 'gangstas in da hood' or such, much is about far more peaceful subjects. Rap at it's best can be an excellent collection of meaningful lyrics which flow together like good poetry; it's unfortunate that the MTV rappers are pretty much all the general public perceives, since the genre itself has so much more to offer. Every musical genre has it's low points, it's lousy participants. The fact that the stereotypical rap artists sell well says more about those that buy the music rather than about the genre itself, in my opinion. Don't be put off by the many bad examples of rap, delve deeper and it becomes obvious that they are no more than a fraction of what the genre itself has to offer.

This said by someone who was just as avid a rock and metal supporter (and still is) as many members here with just has many preconceptions, who took the effort to find out if they were true or not and was pleasantly surprised to find out they were, in fact, not correct.

Yes, Gilmour's 'Comfortably Numb' solo is one of my all-time favourite solos (just behind Gilby Clarke's 'Wild Horses' arrangement from the Guns N' Roses Use Your Illusion 1992 tour dates and Mick Taylor's 'Shine A Light' solo).
~:cheers: Hoping Gilmour would play that was the main reason I actually watched any part of Live8.

LeftEyeNine

09-04-2005, 13:20

Rap vs. Rock..Hmm

Well, I nearly am an audiophiliac (hehe). Music is music first but when it comes to preference rock stands out for me. However..

Rap was what Public Enemy used to do, not those pigophiliac "there's nothing else than money, cars, luxury and babes" freaks. ( I am building muscles to beat 50 Cent to death. Reserve a headline in the papers for me, USA)

I can still say that Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise 's expression power is above many rock songs. What's more rappers soemtimes really find interesting series of rhytms. I really like percussion and rythm side of a music and that is something the black people really excel at. (I am not sounding offensive, do I? I do not know how they are called in a formal way)

But bring me Bob Dylan, the Wallflowers, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the Offspring, Kent and the world is mine..

* Listens to Kent - Elvis by the end of the post *

Steppe Merc

09-04-2005, 16:40

Rap/Hip-Hop is urban music and not just limited to the ghetto.

It's already mainstream and has deeply infiltrated and penetrated Suburbia.
Unfortunatly, this is quite true. Damn rich white short haired athletes with their fancy cars and stupid clothes and loud rap music...

To SteppeMerc: You don't care about Scott Joplin? He was one of the masters of ragtime, which is to swing and jazz as blues is to rock and roll.

And if you proclaim willful ignorance of broad swaths of historically and peripherally important musical genres, then who the hell are you to be making pronouncements? If you've no interest in looking beyond what your background and your fancy have exposed you to, that's fine, but shut your trap.
I am me, that's who I am to be making prononcments. I've got as much right to an opinon as any other schumck, and most of them sure as hell don't know what their talking about. My love of music gives me right to talk, and the fact that I can. Perhaps I'm wrong, or ignorant, but I've got at least as much of a right to have an opinon and talk about it as anyone else.

But in the end, insults don't really matter to me. So have fun you all arguing, I'm off to another thread.