Ghengis khan not so great?!

[master of the puppets]

we probably all heard the brilliant and majestic story of ghengis khan. his humble beginings, his merciless exile, his rise to glory, his millitary expansion, his perfect empire, his fabulous burial. all his empire accomplished, paper money, trade routes, military strategemes, money stockpiles, brutal law.

but mabey...just mabey he was'nt the greatest stratagist, diplomat, warmonger, trader. mabey he was the ultimate propagandist?!?!

if hitler had won WWII hwe would be seen as a genius and a hero.
we have heard the miraculous story of alexander the great, mabey he too was a propogandist and all we know aboutr him is his overblown ego talking.
mabey if napoleon had succeeded we would believe he invented the rifle and was seven feet tall!

i have no evidence to support this and i don't really believe it but i just want to ask you, do you think it is at all possible?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Jenghiz managed to unite the Mongols into one force, an important achievement.

His heirs did, probably, embellish this story to add luster to their own success.

Kublai was the ruler of the empire at its height, and Sabutai its greatest war leader.

Seamus

[Steppe Merc]

Chingis was a great leader. He was not a propagandist, because it was his enemies writing about him, not his own people, save the Chinese records (and probably some others).
Steppe people are always judged by their enemies, so there really isn't much room for their propoganda, only their enemies.

[master of the puppets]

ok then thnx

just wondering

[AntiochusIII]

Actually he was the greatest propagandist of all.

He USED his enemies to "praise" his ruthlessness, his uncomparable reputation, his fearlessness, and the might and terror of his horde; his empire. They wrote it in terror, but...isn't that Genghis wants in the first place? To spread terror before the horde like the pressure before the storm?

That, alone, makes him quite a great man, eh? ~D

Anyway, great to see you're alive and well, diplomat. ~;)

[caesar44]

we probably all heard the brilliant and majestic story of ghengis khan. his humble beginings, his merciless exile, his rise to glory, his millitary expansion, his perfect empire, his fabulous burial. all his empire accomplished, paper money, trade routes, military strategemes, money stockpiles, brutal law.

but mabey...just mabey he was'nt the greatest stratagist, diplomat, warmonger, trader. mabey he was the ultimate propagandist?!?!

if hitler had won WWII hwe would be seen as a genius and a hero.
we have heard the miraculous story of alexander the great, mabey he too was a propogandist and all we know aboutr him is his overblown ego talking.
mabey if napoleon had succeeded we would believe he invented the rifle and was seven feet tall!

i have no evidence to support this and i don't really believe it but i just want to ask you, do you think it is at all possible?

It is a good challenge for historians . I say , look at the facts , not the stories or the legends .
Now , how can one know what is fact and what is not ? The Mongols conqured Asia and Russia under a man named Temuchin who became "Khan" in so and so years , against so and so enemies , all the rest are just stories , interpretations , legends , "scientific" estimations etc'
So , yes it is a good question !

[Steppe Merc]

AntiochusIII, well yes, all steppe people liked to inflate their numbers and terrorify their enemies. It's easier for people to surrender when they think you have 10,000 more troops than them when in reality you have only half their forces.
But it's not like most of them were in any position to invent their accomplishments, save Chingis. But while overexagerated the Western and Muslim histories are, they do correspond with what his own historians said (from their point of view).

[AntiochusIII]

AntiochusIII, well yes, all steppe people liked to inflate their numbers and terrorify their enemies. It's easier for people to surrender when they think you have 10,000 more troops than them when in reality you have only half their forces.
But it's not like most of them were in any position to invent their accomplishments, save Chingis. But while overexagerated the Western and Muslim histories are, they do correspond with what his own historians said (from their point of view).Well, actually I was complimenting him. Ghenghis' horde has too few manpower to launch and maintain all those conquests without the aid of "psychological war" anyway, even if he had expanded them by recieve more and more nomadic tribes under his banner.

The records seems to agree that the Mongols are terrifyingly successful, and at least part of it is thanks to Genghis' efforts to build a reputation of "the devil", if you must. It helps ruins the enemies' morales in battlefields and hold on to conquered peoples, who feared the Horde's retribution in case of rebellion.

[Gregoshi]

At the very least, Ghengis must be the major historical figure with the most variations on the spelling of his name.:dizzy2:

[Rosacrux redux]

At the very least, Ghengis must be the major historical figure with the most variations on the spelling of his name.:dizzy2:
~D ~D ~D

Yeah, Chinghiz ~;) does that to people...

personally, I think he is one of the greatest leaders (military and political) of all times, and also the greatest mass murderer of all times.

[Gregoshi]

...and also the greatest mass murderer of all times.

If someone dares to start a "Greatest mass murderer of all times" thread I'll have Tosa delete their account. :laugh4: Just kidding of course, but don't anyone get any ideas...:help:

[Meneldil]

Heh, I was just about to reply that he *wasn't* the greatest mass murderer of all times, when I thought it would turn into another endless discussion about Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc. ~D

[Gregoshi]

You have the Wisdom of the Ages Meneldil. :bow:

[Colovion]

The Great Khan was an amazing ruler and strategist, but his empire was made great not by his nature alone but many whom were cultivated in the same style as he.

[caesar44]

At the very least, Ghengis must be the major historical figure with the most variations on the spelling of his name.:dizzy2:


Correct , that is why I have called him Temuchin , but how you spell that name ?? ~:confused: ~:eek:
Lets call him Ji khan , ha ?

[caesar44]

If someone dares to start a "Greatest mass murderer of all times" thread I'll have Tosa delete their account. :laugh4: Just kidding of course, but don't anyone get any ideas...:help:


You got me there...I was just about...Hitlin...Staler... :stop: