The Prussian Military Club [Archive]

Kaiser of Arabia

09-06-2005, 06:09

Hey guys.
As you all know, I'm 3/8ths Prussian (Pommeranian and Silsean), and you guys know that I am the definition of Prussian militaristic, along with Panzer of course. So, for all you true prussians, or prussians at heart, sign up, 10 deutschmarks on the drum!

Positions open.

Reichsfuerher-Reserved for a moderator or someone more worthy than myself.

I Korps-Preußen
Generalfeldmarschal-Kaiser
General-der-Infanterie - Open
General-der-Kavalrie - Open
Soldaten:

II Korps - Großdeutschland
GFM - Open
GdI - Open
GdK - Open
Soldaten:

III Korps - Freikorps
GFM - Open
GdI - Open
GdK - Open
Soldaten:

Three Korps should be enough ~:) Join up guys. The benefits include:
Free land in Poland or France, of your choosing. Estates in Russia. Great beer.

Join up. To sway you more, here's some recruitment posters and pics of our boys in action!

http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/newsletter/May2000/kulm.jpg

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Gerard2/images/fig02.jpg

http://www.milartgl.com/images_2_b/bismark_march.jpg

http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/u/uboat-painting-leigh.jpg

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/riley/787/Napoleon/100/olanc.jpg

http://hobbyoutlets.com/revellag/images/rvls2613.jpg

http://www.stefanopasini.it/images/wittpc07.jpg

http://www.hnb.rtk.net.pl/ThirdReich/galerie/generalowie/heinz_guderian.jpg

http://www.uribeer.com/images/Berlin%20Brandenburg.jpg

http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/schools/image/prussia.gif

GoreBag

09-06-2005, 06:16

Well, the German (and the Scot...)in me is telling me to sign up for the free beer, and an estate in Russia would be nice and cold, but Prussian I am not.

Kaiser of Arabia

09-06-2005, 06:19

Well, the German (and the Scot...)in me is telling me to sign up for the free beer, and an estate in Russia would be nice and cold, but Prussian I am not.
Then join either the Grossdeutschland or Freikorps.
Grossdeutschland is for Germans but not prussians, Freikorps is for people who wish they were german or of gemran blood

GoreBag

09-06-2005, 06:22

I'll see how the club progresses first. Those Prussian-types always seemed so stuffy... ~;p

Adrian II

09-06-2005, 08:09

To sway you more, here's some recruitment posters and pics of our boys in action!

http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/newsletter/May2000/kulm.jpgWhat's the guy bottom left doing on the floor? Looking for his contact lenses?

Aenlic

09-06-2005, 08:14

He's probably just checking out the guidon's butt. Those Prussians, they get kind of lonely. It's that all-male Spartan military tradition thing.

Templar Knight

09-06-2005, 10:39

Now this is my kind of club ~:cheers:

King Henry V

09-06-2005, 10:55

Well my grandfather was at Stalingrad (but he was from Saxony) and my grandmother was Prussian. One of her ancestors was a staff officer on Blücher's staff at Waterloo, so I think I qualify for this noble club.

discovery1

09-06-2005, 12:41

I'm tall, blonde, haired, blue eyed and may be part Sudetenland German. Can I join?

Kaiser of Arabia

09-06-2005, 14:40

Ok guys, just fill out these applications and I'll have to get Greg to edit you guys into the above post (mainly because I can't edit posts)

Name:
Possition Applied For:
[For statistical purposes]: Where in Germany is your ancestory?

Adrian II

09-06-2005, 14:52

[For statistical purposes]: Where in Germany is your ancestory?I lost it during a wild night in Hamburg, so sorry.

BTW What 'action' are your 'guys' involved in underneath that Brandenburger Tor? Studying a city map? Each others ehmm...?

I think I'll pass Kaiser. ~:eek:

PanzerJaeger

09-06-2005, 15:08

You know Im in Caps. Put me in either the Prussian or German corps, where ever you see fit. ~:cheers:

Husar

09-06-2005, 17:43

If you want to give away conquered land, I guess there is no place for a Bismarck fan like me. :book:

Kaiser of Arabia

09-06-2005, 18:41

I lost it during a wild night in Hamburg, so sorry.

BTW What 'action' are your 'guys' involved in underneath that Brandenburger Tor? Studying a city map? Each others ehmm...?

I think I'll pass Kaiser. ~:eek:
I didn't take that pic, I found it on Google ~:)

Panz: You're in the Prussian Korps. GdI good?

Husar: You don't want an estate in Poland? :balloon2:

ShadesWolf

09-06-2005, 18:53

So what will this club do ?

Adrian II

09-06-2005, 20:50

So what will this club do ?Walk around in funny hats, call each other Heinz or Gustav and look at the other guy's erm.. guidon.
:mellow:

Meneldil

09-06-2005, 20:51

Make us laugh ~D

Husar

09-06-2005, 21:08

Husar: You don't want an estate in Poland? :balloon2:

Hmm, well, I´d like Marienburg, I think it´s in Poland today. ~;)
I also think my grandma came from eastern prussia, but I´m not sure.
EDIT: Yes she did, asked my mum. So what´s the use of this club?

@Adrian: Don´t discriminate against people just because they´re called Heinz or Gustav. ~;) My name is Marlon, but you can call me husi. ~D

Kaiser of Arabia

09-06-2005, 21:35

Walk around in funny hats, call each other Heinz or Gustav and look at the other guy's erm.. guidon.
:mellow:
*slaps* Who captured Holland in 1940? Exactly.

Anyway, this club will do nothing except be more prussian then the Nhilist club AND the Welshmens club combined!

actually we just sit around and be German. ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: And losts more of it!

Ser Clegane

09-06-2005, 21:46

actually we just sit around and be German.

I do that all day long anyway ~:handball:

PanzerJaeger

09-06-2005, 21:51

Hmm, seems like we've got some ants at this picnic. Shewww!

Anyway, why do you guys think Prussia developed such a militaristic culture? Was it hereditary, environmental, or what?

Husar

09-06-2005, 21:59

I do that all day long anyway ~:handball:

Me too. ~D
Well, I´ll move to Essen this weekend to study there and I don´t know if i will have internet there, though I should be at home on weekends.

@Capo: Husis, erm hussars are cavalry so if you want put me in front of some "Kavallerie". ~;)

Maybe next time I will be in Düren, the next city from here, I can go to the "Bismarckstrasse" and take a photo of the "Bismarckstatue" with my crappy cellphone camera to post it here. ~D Brw, the "Bismarckstrasse" goes right up onto the "Bismarckberg". :dizzy2: ~;)

Husar

09-06-2005, 22:09

Hmm, seems like we've got some ants at this picnic. Shewww!

Anyway, why do you guys think Prussia developed such a militaristic culture? Was it hereditary, environmental, or what?
I don´t really have an idea, but I´d guess it was kind of a strategy by the leaders to make people interested in the military and people didn´t refuse to become eccentric about it. I think governments could try to influence people for example by officially and publicly honoring soldiers, always wearing nice uniforms, representing law and order together with some propaganda and, quite important, success. So people got exited about the military and even supportet the militaristic government. People back then also had a more romantic view of soldiers I think, they still thought fighting was honorable, there were no mass-production and mass-destruction weapons in the early days of prussia and the military was meant to make boys become honorable and disciplined men.

Just my thoughts.

GoreBag

09-06-2005, 22:22

Well, from the start, Prussia was a military-oriented "state", seeing as how the Teutonic Knights kind of took over the place at the behest of a Polish king whose name escapes me. The idea was to quell the raiding pagans (the real Prussians).

Mostly, though, I think Prussia as it existed in the mind of Capo is the product of Friedrich II, an enlightened despot if there ever was one.

I found an article about the rise of Prussia, but it gives Friedrich a much darker connotation than other resources I've read.

Rise of Prussia (http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/wc2/lectures/riseprussia.html)

Adrian II

09-06-2005, 23:03

*slaps* Who captured Holland in 1940?Some hysterical peasant from Austria. Are you perchance related? ~;)

Husar

09-07-2005, 00:29

Some hysterical peasant from Austria.

Wrong, he was just sitting on his crazy behind somewhere in Berlin. It were germans who captured the Netherlands, and while I´m at it, my dad is dutch. ~D

Evil_Maniac From Mars

09-07-2005, 02:24

I'll join II Korps. I'll post the application with English translations of German provinces (if I know the English translation) to make it easier for the Officers.

Name: Evil_Maniac From Mars
Possition Applied For: II Korps, or Cavalry Commander
Where in Germany is your ancestory? Bayern, Schwaben, Bradenburg, Rus-Deutsch

Aenlic

09-07-2005, 02:58

You know, even though my ancestors were from Wörrstadt and Schornsheim and possibly eligible, leaving for American in 1748, I don't think someone from the Rheinhessen would have much appreciation for Prussians, just from a historical viewpoint. And my politics would probably preclude membership, as well. I'd just agitate and march about carrying a red and black flag and stuff. Very un-Prussian. ~;)

Strike For The South

09-07-2005, 03:26

*slaps* Who captured Holland in 1940? Exactly.

Anyway, this club will do nothing except be more prussian then the Nhilist club AND the Welshmens club combined!

actually we just sit around and be German. ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: And losts more of it!

The welshman will stand strong *gets into truck loads shotgun and preapares to defned country 10,000 miles away which until yesterday he didnt know exsisted* ~D

Adrian II

09-07-2005, 07:50

Wrong, he was just sitting on his crazy behind somewhere in Berlin.I know, but it would spoil the effect with Kaiser's ancestors being Austrian and all.. ~;)

Incongruous

09-07-2005, 08:04

Well on my Granfathers side, I'm descended from German nobility who were foisterd upon the Hungarians.
It was even suggested that we have Hapsburg blood. :duel:

Petrus

09-07-2005, 11:45

Well, my grandfather was born in Lorraine and his brother in law was recruted by force in the wermacht, so i think i can join.

This makes :

Name : Petrus
Regiment : Grossdeutschland
Rank : deserter

Brutus

09-07-2005, 14:59

Is this the place where I can get my grandfather's bike back? While I'm at it, some "Prussian" bullit ruined my grandfather's economy books (a whole row of books with a little round hole right through the middle), so we would like some compensation for that too, please.

Also, my other grandparents would like to complain about the large cannon the "Prussians" put in their backyard to fire upon the uncoming Poles. It kept them awake for an entire week.

~D

Husar

09-07-2005, 19:29

Is this the place where I can get my grandfather's bike back? While I'm at it, some "Prussian" bullit ruined my grandfather's economy books (a whole row of books with a little round hole right through the middle), so we would like some compensation for that too, please.
Can you prove it was a "prussian" bullet?

Also, my other grandparents would like to complain about the large cannon the "Prussians" put in their backyard to fire upon the uncoming Poles. It kept them awake for an entire week.

~D
Didn´t your grandparents pay taxes for the "Prussians" to defend their home? ~;)

Brutus

09-07-2005, 19:56

Can you prove it was a "prussian" bullet?

Didn´t your grandparents pay taxes for the "Prussians" to defend their home? ~;)

That would be very unlikely, as the Poles were coming to liberate them (in october 1944, the 1st Polish Panzer Division, led by general Stanislaw Maczek, liberated West-Brabant). Also, strange way to defend homes by shooting everything to pieces.

As for the bullet, I can't, never seen it actually. (so I could probably been an Allied bullet as well, but that doesn't make for a good story, does it now?) Anyway, the books were pretty worthless, I can tell you that!

Evil_Maniac From Mars

09-07-2005, 22:35

PanzerJaeger

09-07-2005, 22:52

Capos most likely busy today. I havent seen him post anywhere else.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

09-07-2005, 22:54

Probably, but I copied it in case he missed it under all the pro-Wales stuff.

Kaiser of Arabia

09-08-2005, 02:48

School started, sorry.

Anyway, let's get this straight...I cannot edit my posts!

Let me see if I can get this.

I Korps
FM: Me
GdI: Panzer
GdK: Evil Manaic from Mars

II Korps
FM
GdI
GdK
Soldaten:
Petrus
Discovery 1

III Korps
FM
GdI
GdK
Soldaten:

@Brutus: Poles liberate? My dear man, is that possible? The Polish attrocities in Eastern Prussian definatly make us not want to give you back your books. In fact, an artillery regiment is en rout to your home to use it as a base camp.

Csargo

09-08-2005, 03:38

Count me in I want to join just put me anywhere u need me

~:cheers:

Brutus

09-08-2005, 10:40

@Brutus: Poles liberate? My dear man, is that possible? The Polish attrocities in Eastern Prussian definatly make us not want to give you back your books. In fact, an artillery regiment is en rout to your home to use it as a base camp.
Ah well, no worries mate, we got compensation a long time ago when these same Poles captured a German armoury and sent a German Panther D-tank as a gift to my region. It had been standing on the edge of a city park next to my old school for 60 years already.

http://www.1e-poolse-pantserdivisie.nl/afbeeldingen/panther%20d%20tank%2030-10-04.jpg

~:cool:

Kaiser of Arabia

09-08-2005, 21:02

Russian: You get soldaten in the Freikorps.

Brutus: Where in Poland do you live? Alot of my relatives come from the Pommerania/Silsea region (I know at least 1 side is ethnically german, but I'm not sure about the other side. The last name is Taft, if that says anything, I think they were at least part Ethnically German).

Anyway, to sing one of the many anthems of our club:
(to My country tis of thee)
Danzig is German,
It is so German
It is so Deutsch
(Chorus:)
It got invaded in 39
Then again in 45
Now it has an unpronouncable name in Poland
but it is German!

It was stolen From us
By the Treaty of Versailles
That war did suck!

Lol! I can't write songs.

PanzerJaeger

09-08-2005, 23:24

Thats one of the best preserved Panthers ive seen, especially in open air. Its a travesty what they are doing to the captured equipment in the states. :no:

Brutus

09-09-2005, 09:31

Brutus: Where in Poland do you live? Alot of my relatives come from the Pommerania/Silsea region (I know at least 1 side is ethnically german, but I'm not sure about the other side. The last name is Taft, if that says anything, I think they were at least part Ethnically German).

I´m not from Poland, I´m from the Netherlands. All I said was that the Polish 1st Panzer Division liberated my birth region in the south of the country. (These particular Poles had lived in Great-Britain during the war, I believe... Many of them did not return to communist Poland after the war). They were the left wing of the advancing Allies in 1944, with Canadians and Americans to the east.

@Panzerjager: I believe it is actually one of the last two surviving Panther D-tanks of this type in the world (the other one, it seems, is in a private collection). The renovated it last year, repainting it in the original colours (as seen on the photo. When I was still at school 4 years ago it was in different shades of grey). When they opened it (the lid had been sealed) they found that most of the interior was still intact, albeit a bit rusty. Anyway, to preserve it longer, they removed all inner parts and stuffed it with concrete, so generations of schoolchilderen can eat their sandwiches or fries whilst sitting on it once again.

Petrus

09-09-2005, 11:10

Anyway, to sing one of the many anthems of our club:
(to My country tis of thee)
Danzig is German,
It is so German
It is so Deutsch
(Chorus:)
It got invaded in 39
Then again in 45
Now it has an unpronouncable name in Poland
but it is German!

It was stolen From us
By the Treaty of Versailles
That war did suck!

Lol! I can't write songs.

It's not terrible, i'll try another one :

Danzig was Prussian
But Prussians wanted make real
Their silly wargames
And slaughter everything
That was within reach

Now Gdansk is Polish
And so will it remain
As Prussians have been sent
Back to their silly wargames
Unable to make them real again

This is such a low price
For those slavers to remain quiet
While playing wargames
And vomiting their ale
That’s the only thing remaining to them

Gdansk is freedom
For everyone that lives
Outside a wargame
First of all for Prussians
Who do not have to die anymore

So silly is the man
That think phantasmagoria
And glorified slaughters
Is the only way to live
As it only brings death and doom

I don't think i'm better song writter than you anyway.

Kaiser of Arabia

09-09-2005, 21:20

Next person to call Danzig Gdansk will be ridiculed relentlessly. Danzig shall be ours again, it has been long opressed by the Polish government. Poland as a nation shouldn't even exist, in my opinion. The land is rightfully either German, Czech (Origionally Austria, but yeah, it didn't work out), Slovak (because Czechoslovakia doesnt exist anymore) and Russia. Koenigsburg is also German, but there's not much of a point to it anymore as it's just one big radioactive baltic port. God I have the USSR.

Now, let's get down to brass tacks. Nah, I'm just kidding.

Anyway, continue the funness.

Orda Khan

09-11-2005, 19:49

I fail to see why this was posted in the Monastery. Surely the Tavern is a more relevant place

.........Orda

Gregoshi

09-12-2005, 03:15

It is my understanding from Herr Kaiser, that in this thread you can declare your Prussian-ness and that once the club has assembled on the parade grounds, they will then discuss any and all things regarding the Prussian Military. That is why it remains here.

GoreBag

09-12-2005, 03:23

Poland as a nation shouldn't even exist, in my opinion. The land is rightfully either German, Czech (Origionally Austria, but yeah, it didn't work out), Slovak (because Czechoslovakia doesnt exist anymore) and Russia. Koenigsburg is also German, but there's not much of a point to it anymore as it's just one big radioactive baltic port. God I have the USSR.

No, the land rightfully belongs to the Prussians - the original ones who weren't German at all, but a Baltic people. In any case, "right" has nothing to do with it, so Gdansk it is.

Kaiser of Arabia

09-13-2005, 21:53

Gave a presentation on my prussian-ness in school today. Major hit. How are your prussian-ness going?

Anyway, I find it interesting about how everyone assumes Pommerania and Silsea are rightfully Polish, and whoever comes from there is a pole. Not true. My entire German German side (as opposed to the Austrian German) side was from Pommern and Silsea. They were German, not Polish. I don't like Poles because of what they did to Pommern and Silsea (Ethnicide of Germans).

And Gdansk it is not. The Poles get all rightous about the deaths of their countrymen during WWII, WHAT ABOUT THEIR MURDER OF OVER 1 MILLION AFTER THE WAR? WHAT ABOUT THE CZECH ETHNIC CLEANSING OF THE SUDETENLAND? WHAT ABOUT THE MURDER OF MILLIONS OF GERMAN CIVILIANS BY SOVIET AND POLISH FORCES AFTER THE WAR IN GERMANY? HUH?

You will not find any of my relatives in Germany or Poland anymore. They were killed by the Soviets. Don't even start to try to justify it, or I will justify the holocost. There was no differance in the two actions, other than the scale. Which, when you look at total casualties, was almost the same. Justify the holocost, and if you can, you can justify this. If not, then you cannot. That's the way it goes.

Ser Clegane

09-13-2005, 22:00

WHAT ABOUT THEIR MURDER OF OVER 1 MILLION AFTER THE WAR?

Quite an accusation you are issueing here (and all in capital letters I might add).

I think it would be good if you would add a (credible) source to support this, as I seriously doubt those numbers.

SwordsMaster

09-13-2005, 22:14

You will not find any of my relatives in Germany or Poland anymore. They were killed by the Soviets. Don't even start to try to justify it, or I will justify the holocost. There was no differance in the two actions, other than the scale. Which, when you look at total casualties, was almost the same. Justify the holocost, and if you can, you can justify this. If not, then you cannot. That's the way it goes.

Not quite, really. See the subtle point here is that USSR alone lost 20 million during the war. And no, most of them weren't killed by Stalin. So you'll understand if the ones that survived were a little harsh on the average german fella.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

09-14-2005, 00:36

If you look on a map of the German provinces, you will see that part of Pommern is still in Germany. Not much, but a bit. Kaiser, I agree with you. I've had many family members (Germans living in the Ukraine, they had kept their nationaltiy and citizenship) slain by Stalin. Including one who was shot through his glass door in Berlin, though he was clearly a conscript.

GoreBag

09-14-2005, 03:18

Brutus

09-14-2005, 11:29

As is my understanding, many Germans were indeed murdered or deported in Eastern Europe after the war. That is neither justifiable nor admirable, but I do think it's understandable. If you see what the Germans themselves did to the Poles, Czechs, Russians and others, I am not surprised what they did to the Germans afterwards. Still, this doesn't make it any less atrocious (just like the British bombing German cities to make as much civilian casualties as possible, which they managed to do quite well, just go and have a look in Dresden, for example).

However, we must not forget that, as Neongod already said, it was the Germans who took lands like Pomerania, Silesia and Prussia from it's original Slavic and Baltic inhabitants during the Middle Ages. This also didn't happen in a way that I would call in even the remotest sense admirable. Saying that Poland as a nation has no right to exist is absolutely wrong in my eyes, as Poland was in older times a great nation and if the Germans have the right to their own state, why don't the Poles?

Last but not least, let not forget that someone like Otto von Bismarck, by some regarded as one of the greatest Prussians ever, and himself mostly responsible for forming the Second German Empire in 1871, had a distinct policy of marginalising many people easily identifiable as "Real Germans": Austrians, Catholics, Socialists, and the like.

Gregoshi

09-14-2005, 16:15

Let's keep the emotional outbursts out of these discussions please.

Orda Khan

09-14-2005, 16:28

Let's keep the emotional outbursts out of these discussions please.
My point entirely in my previous post. I could not see this thread developing any other way, hence my reference to the Tavern

.......Orda

Gregoshi

09-14-2005, 16:59

I'm an optimist by nature Orda...though events here at the Org and in real life during the past several months have been challenging that optimism.

Orda Khan

09-14-2005, 17:04

:bow:

......Orda

Kaiser of Arabia

09-14-2005, 20:54

What about the Balts from which the land was taken? I've never heard of Polish execution of Germans after the war - American and French, though, are a different story.

"We can Gdasnk if we want to,
We can leave your friends behind;
'Cause your friends don't Gdansk,
And if they don't Gdansk,
Then they're no friends of mine."
Get out of my thread...OUT I SAY! YOU PRUSSIAN HATER!

Quite an accusation you are issueing here (and all in capital letters I might add).
Ethnic Cleansing
Czechoslovakia:
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/sginferno/sgi01.html,
Eastern Europe:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/German-exodus-from-Eastern-Europe
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_exodus_from_Eastern_Europe

Massacres and Warcrimes
Usti Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usti_Massacre
Dachau Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_Massacre
Firebombing of Hamburg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gomorrah
Firebombing of Dresden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Firebombing of Kassel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Kassel_in_World_War_II

GoreBag

09-14-2005, 21:00

Never! This is my thread now!

Kaiser of Arabia

09-14-2005, 21:02

Never! This is my thread now!
*shoots you*
PRUSSIANS! ATTACK!
*charges NeonGod's home* :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

Ser Clegane

09-14-2005, 21:32

Ethnic Cleansing
Czechoslovakia:
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/sginferno/sgi01.html,
Eastern Europe:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/German-exodus-from-Eastern-Europe
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_exodus_from_Eastern_Europe

I ask for credible sources and what I receive are links to a (neo-)Nazi website and to a (rather short) disputed Wikipedia entry?

Hmmm...

Kaiser of Arabia

09-14-2005, 21:34

I ask for credible sources and what I receive are links to a (neo-)Nazi website and to a (rather short) disputed Wikipedia entry?

Hmmm...
1. Survivors of the sudetenland genocides are now neo-nazis? Hrm...let me find another article (i have several).
2. Just about every political-related article on wikipedia is disputed.
3. You think you're the master? Provide me with reliable evidence that:
a. Proves the Holocost Happened
b. Proved these warcrimes did not happen.

I accept your reality and replace it with my own.

GoreBag

09-14-2005, 21:40

me with reliable evidence that:
a. Proves the Holocost Happened

Are you serious?

Kaiser of Arabia

09-14-2005, 21:42

http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/ethnic.html
http://www.hickl.info/html/e-sudetenland1.htm
http://www.ippu.purdue.edu/failed_states/2000/papers/jacksonpreece.html (above After 1948 in the article)

Ser Clegane

09-14-2005, 21:45

1. Survivors of the sudetenland genocides are now neo-nazis? Hrm...let me find another article (i have several).
Did you happen to take look at the website as a whole?
Any website that goes at length to point out all the good sides of Hitler and the Third Reich and focuses on all the evils the Allies did is very likely to be a (neo)-Nazi website

2. Just about every political-related article on wikipedia is disputed.
Actually a lot of the historical entries aren't. This one specifically also does a rather poor job in backing up any claims. It has pretty much the same weight as anybody of us just making a post on this board without providing evidence.

3. You think you're the master? Provide me with reliable evidence that:
a. Proves the Holocost Happened
b. Proved these warcrimes did not happen.
Actually proving that something did not happen is usually a bit difficult, isn't it? Since you made the original claim I would say the onus lies pretty much on your end.

NB: I do not dispute the fact that there was ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe after WWII - what I doubt are the high numbers that you provide.

PanzerJaeger

09-14-2005, 21:54

I thought the counter-cleansing of most of eastern Europe of Germans was common knowledge.. ~:confused:

Kagemusha

09-14-2005, 21:59

Anyway what does it matter.Germans didnt show mercy to civilians nor did the Soviets.It was war not somekind of simulation.You can think it yourself.If foreign soldiers would come to your country and take your house,rape your wife and daughters.If you could have a payback would you show mercy?Germans got what they asked for.War is not very nice.

Kaiser of Arabia

09-14-2005, 22:00

Did you happen to take look at the website as a whole?
Any website that goes at length to point out all the good sides of Hitler and the Third Reich and focuses on all the evils the Allies did is very likely to be a (neo)-Nazi website

Actually a lot of the historical entries aren't. This one specifically also does a rather poor job in backing up any claims. It has pretty much the same weight as anybody of us just making a post on this board without providing evidence.

b. Proved these warcrimes did not happen.
Actually proving that something did not happen is usually a bit difficult, isn't it? Since you made the original claim I would say the onus lies pretty much on your end.[/QUOTE]
Let's disect this, shall we?

Any website that goes at length to point out all the good sides of Hitler and the Third Reich and focuses on all the evils the Allies did is very likely to be a (neo)-Nazi website

Typical Franco-phile view. They could be taking an objective view of history, of course, but no, they're Neo-Nazi's instead. Find me where on the website it claims to be Neo-Nazi. And yes, I looked at the site as a whole.

This one specifically also does a rather poor job in backing up any claims. It has pretty much the same weight as anybody of us just making a post on this board without providing evidence.

Again, typical communist-loving view. Because the article disagrees with you, it's automatically to be discounted. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia anyone can post one, with strict regulations of course, the article could have been disputed by a guilt-loving denialist, like yourself. For all I know, you could have prepared for my using of such an article by disputing it yourself. Since wikipedia does not share that information, all possibilities are open.

The Ethnicide of Germans after World War Two was not well documented because the allies one. And we all know, tis the Victor who rights history.

What about my other sources that you did not even bother to read?

And a question: If first hand accounts of the holocost are accountable, why aren't first hand accounts of these attrocities? Because they were committed by the shining star of Communism or Social Democracy rather than your hated "fascism?"

You have fallen for the guilt shoveled onto the German people for actions they had no part in committing. The generation that commited the holocost is dead, why must you pay for their crimes? Or are the sins of the father passed onto the son?

Oh, and Neongod.

Are you serious?

I wanted to see if he can come up with sources any more reliable than the one's I posted, I am not challenging it's existance. ~:handball: