Convince me to join your religion/philosophical belief/truth

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, here's the deal. I'm not member of any religion/philosophical belief/truth at the moment. I want to find a religion/belief/truth or similar that in my opinion is the best. So I want information from anyone wanting to convince me to join their religion. I'd appreciate it if also not very missionary religions/beliefs would answer these questions. Some beliefs I'd like to hear described are:

- Science, Rationalism (which is basically science + the axiom that rationality is always better than emotions), Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Satanism, Nihilism, Stoic belief, Humanism and so on.

0. Name of the religion (if it's more detailed than just the main religion, please include the name of the sect/community/securalized-fundamentalist scale status so I can differ different religions that go under the same main name from each other)
1. morality: what duties do a human have, if any? what rights do a human have, if any? What's the opinion about egoism?
2. nature: worship/hate/neutral/realize the importance of living in harmony with it
3. did a god create nature? how was everything created? any known story, or is the belief considering it to be unknown?
4. sex: sin or sacred act, or neither?
5. violence: justified never? justified in special cases? justified always? if justified in special cases, which cases, and why, and who decided when those special cases apply?
6. god: is there a major power behind everything? Does it require worship, respect or nothing in particular?
7. irrational rites: are there any rites being carried out without a majority of the followers of the belief knowing why it exists?
8. rational rites: are there any rites carried out for a logical reason (memory rites excluded), and which are they?
9. what are the main things you need to do/think/believe in etc. in order to be part of the religion. If any statements contradict each other, which are the major principles that are of highest priority when choosing between the to?
10. magic: can you prove any magic done by your god/belief/truth etc.?
11. prejudice/axioms: is the religion built in such a way, that there are certain facts/theorems/beliefs/statements that you'd never accept to be false, no matter how strong proof against it there would be?
12. is there an absolute truth? yes or no. If not, can morality still exist, and how do you explain the rationale behind that morality, if there's no absolute truth - i.e. how can you say a certain act is bad/good if there's no absolute truth? If an absolute truth does exist, how is it to be found, or is it found already and then what is it?
13. what is the goal in life, if any?
14. what is the ultimate goal of mankind, if any?
15. has your religion done you anything good apart from making you feel safe assured that you'll get a better life after death?
16. what is the religion's view of feelings and emotions? Are they evil and should be surpressed?
17. what is a human? Is it possible for a human to cease being a human by a certain set of actions?
18. if you have a holy book, do you consider it written by your god, or by humans acting through god?
19. what is your view on searching the truth? Good or bad? Is truth a sacred thing?
20. why choose your religion when there are so many others?
21. sins: is a sin only something included in a list of forbidden things to do, or are there any general principles that can determine, unambigiously, whether a certain act is a sin or not? Is it the act that is a sin, or does the situation determine if the act is allowed or forbidden?
22. religion's change over history: if your religion has changed over the years, how do you defend the changes? i.e. if the holy book was written by your god or based on truth, but the change has lead to a belief that is a contradiction (in one or more ways) to the original message?
23. will there be an apocalypse, and will it be caused by human sins or fortune's/god's will?
24. is the main reason why I should join the religion my own salvation? Will I be punished if I don't join your religion?
25. is worship of god praying to him for a better own life, sacrificing to his honor, or respecting him, or is it a neutral stance, or is it by trying to live up to the rules of the religion?
26. should your religion have missionaries, and if yes, how should the faith be spread? And what should be done to those not wanting to convert?
27. what is the opinion of lazyness? sin? neutral? good?
28. how can earth be evil and God good and allmighty?
29. will converting to the religion make my life, or the lives of any others, any better?
30. how do you convert to the religion?

Please keep this thread clean, I don't want it to be closed, so please don't bash each other's religions in a way that's above the "close thread limit". ~:cheers:

NOTE! If I sound critical in any way, bear in mind that it's no bashing of religion, as I'm letting science and philosophy compete on equal terms with religion, given the same questions; thus, I'm similarly critical to philosophy and science, as I am to religion.

[LeftEyeNine]

I can not understand the people's instinct of "belonging to some discipline". That is an anxiety of identity.

What's more philosophies, beliefs or religions are far deeper than those reality show-like concepts competing against each other. You believe in something if you ever need to or meet it somehow. If you have not come up with any discipline that sounds rational to you up to now, there is no need for you believe in something then. No offense but I think that's an irrelevant try for a debate..

[Paul Peru]

0. Peruvianism - not a religion, a humanist philosophy
1. Humans have no duties a priori. If we sit down and think for a while "like Paul Peru did", we may come to some conclusions. If we are very clear-sighted, it will go something like this: We should follow Kant's Categorical Imperative, a useful formulation of which is "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law." In some cases this may seem overly altruistic, but it's not. It's brilliant! The disadvantages of not being able to kick someone in the face are very much outweighed by the advantages of not being kicked in the face.
2. Nature is a natural thing. Peruvianism does not have anything particular to say about nature. Science has a lot to say about nature, some of which will be shown to be false. My personal opinion on nature is "let's be nice to it, it's pretty, innit"
3. Peruvianists have found nothing to suggest the existence of a God. We refer this question to science, which has a lot to say about how things came about, some of which will be shown to be false.
4. Sex is natural, it's how we have always reproduced. This also explains that our species has developed strong urges. It follows from 1. that consenting adults may go ahead and have sex, but they should be careful to not having it result in any offspring that will not be well taken care of, and they should not expect the community to unquestioningly pay up for any costs their recklessness incurs.
5. It follows from 1. that violence is hardly ever justified. You may spank someone if they're over 18 and ask nicely.
6. Peruvianists have found nothing to suggest the existence of a God.
7. There is some wearing of ties.
8. There are greetings and huggings. This spreads good vibes, and is therefore rational. Since Peruvianism is not an organization, there are no gatherings and rites as such.
9. Kant's Categorical Imperative is a sound basis for a morality based on rationality.
10. On level 5 you get "slow poison"
11. Peruvianism bows to proof and respects logic
12. Peruvianism does not really have an opinion on this. The world seems quite real and predictable, it's possible to reach an intersubjective agreement on "how stuff works" and whether there is any cake left.
13. You decide! (Please remember The Imperative)
14. There isn't really one, but "Survival" seems true to the Imperative, and reasonably ambitious for a belief system ~;)
15. I find it easier to relate to other people. I've found some peace of mind.
16. You may want to take other people's reactions to your emotional displays into consideration, yes. Follow The Imperative!
17. For now, a human is a member of the species Homo Sapiens. We may have to redefine that if we encounter other sentient beings.
18. No holy book. Just The Bucket.
19. Searching for the truth is a good and necessary thing. You will not get "enlightened" unless you search for the truth. You will not find it, of course, but you will uncover falsehoods, and you may get "enlightened".
20. Less silly than Flying Spaghetti-Monsterism, cheaper than Scientology. If everyone were practicing Peruvianists... (there could be some transitional problems with the world economy)
21. If it doesn't go against The Imperative, it's permissible. Please take into consideration what laws are applicable, as you will generally not want to break them.
22. Too soon to tell...
23. There will be several dramatic events. Peruvianism does not predict any.
24. You should join because it's the only sensible thing to do. You will not be spanked for not joining unless you ask nicely.
25. N/A (follow The Gosh Darned Imperative, already!)
26. Maybe it should, but it's very hard to convert people to Peruvianism. It seems you have to be enlightened through the gifts of "deep thought", "intellectual curiosity", "study" and "maturity". We could try to push people in the right direction by giving them appropriate reading material and inviting ourselves into their homes at inconvenient times.
27. Some people are more inclined to laziness than others. Science may favour us with an explanation as to the whyness. Enlightenment tends to moderate laziness and magnify the will for do-goodery of both domestic and global nature.
28. Oh bugger! ~:eek:
29. I believe it would ~:cool:
30. It's not easy, as stated earlier. I could make a reading list and perhaps write some stuff myself, but it's just got to happen to you, I think. It's a gift ~;)

[Lazul]

Just follow Lazulianism;

*eat good food
*exercise daily
*be yourself
*dont hurt anyone

thats it.

... oh and all that Altruism stuff to ~;)

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Paul Peru: that's the kind of answer I wanted!

@LeftEyeNine: I'm mainly trying to find out which religion/way of thought lies closest to my own values. I'm not desperate to belong to anything, but if there is a group with a name that shares my values, it would be interesting to know.

[LeftEyeNine]

I think I'll follow Lazulianism since it has a fundamental that says :


*be yourself...

[Strike For The South]

Ive got candy, beer meat gold 72 virgins a hidef tv and a sports car just sign here :deal:

[GodsPetMonkey]

0. Name of the religion (if it's more detailed than just the main religion, please include the name of the sect/community/securalized-fundamentalist scale status so I can differ different religions that go under the same main name from each other)

The Religious Society of Friends, more commonly known as Quakers. A protestant Christian offshoot, but we are quite different from most Christian churches.
http://www.quaker.org/friends.html may be able to help answer many of your questions.

1. morality: what duties do a human have, if any? what rights do a human have, if any? What's the opinion about egoism?

Beyond those enshrined in law? Not really, not that we take ours from law, but rather it reflects our position fairly well. Rights to happiness, personal security and many freedoms are the crux of it.
As far as duties, I don't understand? Do you mean like, a duty to help others in need, because that's there, or more pray 15 times a day, because that’s not.

2. nature: worship/hate/neutral/realize the importance of living in harmony with it

I guess its realise the importance of living in harmony with it, though it's a personal choice... Charity and simplistic lifestyle are two of our tenants, and while simplistic lifestyle was once thought to involve a very heavy burden (dressing plainly, using rustic language) it is now seen more as a tenant to minimise use and waste wherever possible, and also reducing your impact on others (nature and people both included). So don't go driving your kids to school if it's only 200m away kind of waste is, while not strictly forbidden, is not endorsed.

3. did a god create nature? how was everything created? any known story, or is the belief considering it to be unknown?

What ever floats your boat really... there is no set story, we don't take the bible literally (and will openly challenge it in many places, it's the morals of Jesus we aspire too, not the tales of 4000 year old Jews). I have met people who say God created all, others who think God started it and from there it was on it's own, and ours beliefs as to the nature of God do not preclude the idea that no divine creation happened.

4. sex: sin or sacred act, or neither?

I guess neither, maybe leaning slightly towards sin. Not to fused about premarital sex (has more to do with personal the religious beliefs), but don't go flaunting it in public to much.
On the issue of homosexual relationships... we were the first well known church (I refrain from mainstream, but some people have referred to us as that) to accept homosexuals, declaring it non-sinful in the 'eyes' of God. But we have a real tendency not to condemn others.

5. violence: justified never? justified in special cases? justified always? if justified in special cases, which cases, and why, and who decided when those special cases apply?

We are true pacifists, this is quite different from normal pacifists.
We don't just refuse to fight (or rather, partake in violence) but try to prevent it whenever, and wherever, possible. We are not particularly overt about it, but we do a lot of works in trying to get parties to talk to each other and negotiate peace. This stance has caused some problems (WWII for instance), but we have stuck to it non the less. Often Quakers will go to ravaged areas and attempt to help, particularly the civil populace, but anyone that needs it will get it.

6. god: is there a major power behind everything? Does it require worship, respect or nothing in particular?

The BIG God question is a tricky one.... not really, the link a I provided above, and http://www.quaker.org/ in general should help explain it in detail, but as our relationship with God is fairly unique and lengthy, you should read it on your own if your interested.

7. irrational rites: are there any rites being carried out without a majority of the followers of the belief knowing why it exists?

Hmmm, not really. I can't think of any... at least we don't question why we sit in a group, silently reflecting, and only speaking up when we feel compelled to by the spirit within. Probably the only strange practice of ours, we just don't go for the sitting and listening to a preacher stuff (though some Quakers do have ministers who lead the congregation).

8. rational rites: are there any rites carried out for a logical reason (memory rites excluded), and which are they?

Not sure what you mean?

9. what are the main things you need to do/think/believe in etc. in order to be part of the religion. If any statements contradict each other, which are the major principles that are of highest priority when choosing between the to?

We have several tenants of faith, but these are hardly do or die. What’s more, Quakerism tends not to attract the fiery, fearful (of God), bigoted, etc. You have to be very open minded and accepting to make it as a Quaker. The idea that we don't try to convert others, and in fact, are willing to operate as complete equals with non Quakers (we don't go for the dominance of religion thing, Quakers become Quakers as they know they are one, not because they are told too). We don’t discriminate, to use a more popular term.

I have already mentioned a few of the tenants, so I wont re-explain them. There’s quite a bit to them, so look at the links I provided for a basic rundown.

10. magic: can you prove any magic done by your god/belief/truth etc.?

Not really, one must have faith. But again, there is no directing hand of God.

11. prejudice/axioms: is the religion built in such a way, that there are certain facts/theorems/beliefs/statements that you'd never accept to be false, no matter how strong proof against it there would be?

Yeah, the major one is that God is in all people, and as such, we must respect all other people in the same manner we ourselves expect to be respected, no matter who or what that person is, they remain sacred as carriers of the light.

12. is there an absolute truth? yes or no. If not, can morality still exist, and how do you explain the rationale behind that morality, if there's no absolute truth - i.e. how can you say a certain act is bad/good if there's no absolute truth? If an absolute truth does exist, how is it to be found, or is it found already and then what is it?

I hate this one... In one way, you could make the inner light out to be a form of absolute truth, but you would be both correct and very wrong at the same time. It is the common link between all people, and does indeed guide morality, but it is still up to the individual to decide on their own, such a morality is not set in stone. It's not dictated by God, but inspired from him (and the actions of Jesus).

13. what is the goal in life, if any?

To achieve the best you can and follows our core beliefs.

14. what is the ultimate goal of mankind, if any?

None really... I suppose utopia... Heaven is more obtainable though.

15. has your religion done you anything good apart from making you feel safe assured that you'll get a better life after death?

It makes me feel good knowing that I am doing good and by helping others, carrying out the will of God.

16. what is the religion's view of feelings and emotions? Are they evil and should be surpressed?

Not really, we don't like anger and hatred, at all, but to suppress love and happiness as well as remorse and sympathy would be... inhumane.

17. what is a human? Is it possible for a human to cease being a human by a certain set of actions?

Not at all... totally impossible.

18. if you have a holy book, do you consider it written by your god, or by humans acting through god?

Will, the bible is our holy book, but it is written by men, who were guided by the light, and as such has divine inspiration but is far from infallible, and we know in places down right wrong. We prefer to listen to the underlying message rather then the words written.

19. what is your view on searching the truth? Good or bad? Is truth a sacred thing?

Truth in what sense? Religious or scientific? Does it make a difference? Probably not.

20. why choose your religion when there are so many others?

I don't know, it's a personal choice. You don't become a Quaker as much as realise you are one. There is no real reason to chose us over any other unless you feel you belong with us.

21. sins: is a sin only something included in a list of forbidden things to do, or are there any general principles that can determine, unambigiously, whether a certain act is a sin or not? Is it the act that is a sin, or does the situation determine if the act is allowed or forbidden?

Well, the general guidelines for sins is the same in general Christianity. We just are not as firebrand about them, and don't try to read sins into the bible.

22. religion's change over history: if your religion has changed over the years, how do you defend the changes? i.e. if the holy book was written by your god or based on truth, but the change has lead to a belief that is a contradiction (in one or more ways) to the original message?

It has changed a lot over the years, we are willing to evolve and adapt, such things do not phase us. The life and times of Jesus were very different to our own, again, it's not the words that matter, but the underlying principals (love thy neighbour, etc.)

23. will there be an apocalypse, and will it be caused by human sins or fortune's/god's will?

No. But it's a personal choice, but I don't know of any Quakers who go for the apocalypse thing.

24. is the main reason why I should join the religion my own salvation? Will I be punished if I don't join your religion?

No, far from it. God is in all things, it matters not what you believe, but how you act. If you do good, but worship the big sandal in the sky, you are no less eligible for entry to heaven then a bonafide Quaker.

25. is worship of god praying to him for a better own life, sacrificing to his honor, or respecting him, or is it a neutral stance, or is it by trying to live up to the rules of the religion?

Bit of respecting, bit of praying, bit of living, mostly neutral. 'Worship' for us is trying to take inspiration from the inner light, this is normally done through quiet reflection, and can be done at any time, not just in church.

26. should your religion have missionaries, and if yes, how should the faith be spread? And what should be done to those not wanting to convert?

No, it never has, and never will. We don't believe in conversions, and converts are not Quakers. To become a Quaker, you can't be converted, but you must feel you are a Quaker (and I know that conversion can be self initiated, but I am not using the word in this context).

27. what is the opinion of lazyness? sin? neutral? good?

Errr, sin, but that's to strong a word. Bad would be better. Quakers are very active people by their nature, it may not be trying to do everything at once active, but we don't like being idle, we know there is always more to be done.

28. how can earth be evil and God good and allmighty?

Earth be evil? I don't understand your question.

29. will converting to the religion make my life, or the lives of any others, any better?

In a direct manner... well, if you don't feel any different after becoming a Quaker, then perhaps you were wrong in that you felt such a calling (or perhaps you had been a Quaker all along and just never labelled yourself as such). Will it make others life better? Indeed, not because of spirituality, but because Quakers help whenever and wherever needed, it's very important to us.

30. how do you convert to the religion?

I think I have explained this extensively already.

[LeftEyeNine]

I hope this thread does not turn into a "Show Off" soon..

[ICantSpellDawg]

rape, pillage and murder when you can get away with it. when you have amassed as much power and influence as possible, start your own religion and command others to destroy everything and everyone that cannot be used as slaves or fodder to your machine. then, demand sacrifice from true believers and end the world.

chrisianity

i cant think of a single reason not to do this if you only live once and there is nothing afterwards. except maybe laziness and fear of reprisal

[Reverend Joe]

Ive got candy, beer meat gold 72 virgins a hidef tv and a sports car just sign here :deal:

Beer, meat, gold, a ****load of virgins-

Can i sign?! :wideeyed:

[AntiochusIII]

i cant think of a single reason not to do this if you only live once and there is nothing afterwards. except maybe laziness and fear of reprisalRape and murder gives a bad taste in my mouth, and my conscience. Raping isn't nearly as satisfying as actual sex: it's more like a pathetic show of power. A sadistic pleasure worthy of only the lowest. Murder, why? What's the point? You can't do business with a dead man, you know...

Pillage, however, may be taken into consideration. :martass:

Hey I'm joking on that one.

[Bartix]

rape, pillage and murder when you can get away with it. when you have amassed as much power and influence as possible, start your own religion and command others to destroy everything and everyone that cannot be used as slaves or fodder to your machine. then, demand sacrifice from true believers and end the world.

chrisianity

i cant think of a single reason not to do this if you only live once and there is nothing afterwards. except maybe laziness and fear of reprisal
This is very sad on your behalf.

I think I shall look more on Quaker. Friends is good, and I think they also supplying fibre rich breakfast cereals and engine lubricant. ~:)

After all I am already looking for God, but I do not yet "know" I am Quaker. Just searcher. :balloon2:

[Rodion Romanovich]

@GodsPetMonkey: Thanks for your answer! Quakerism sounds quite appealing I must say. But I'd still like to hear about some more alternatives, it was not entirely what I was looking for, but very close.

[Aenlic]

I recommend the Church of the Sub-Genius (http://www.subgenius.com/).

[Claudius the God]

0. Unknown (maybe just common sense)

1. people with common sense have duties to be polite and helpful on occasion or in general (just a general desire to be decent to others), and if necessary to provide for one's self and family with food, shelter, etc. all humans have a right to live, a right to an opinion, freedom of speech, principles of the enlightenment. common sense chooses the political centre of capitalism with strong workers' rights and institutions such as trade unions. liberal democratic government.

2. the natural world is beautiful and interresting, but finite. resources should be treasured, and those harming nature intentionally or not (such as done by capitalism) should make appropriate efforts to reduce damage to the natural world and to restore the natural balance to the environment.

3. the origins of life and the universe and the subsequent development of each are the subject to the scientific method to investigate. with no evidence to prove the existance of a god or gods, it is generally assumed that there is no god, and that we should make moral values at a community level. should scientific evidence of a god be found, all information of such a being (including motivations) should also be subject to scientific inquiry.

4. violent sex should never be encouraged, but the concept of a sin is not one we hold. Sex is natural, and beautiful, and if one chooses it can be regarded as a sacred act. however, this sacredness is an individual or dual experience, never an institutionalised tradition.

5. violence is only justified as self-defence. weapons are never encouraged, but are sometimes accepted for dealing with others also with weapons. common sense never promotes the carrying of weapons, but realizes that situations occur when they are needed for self preservation. crime with weapons is utterly unacceptable.

6. the scientific method has found no factual evidence of god. The natural world should be protected though.

7. common sense generally discourages irrationality in all forms.

8. common sense promotes rational thought

9. people of common sense should realise the political and economic motivations for individuals or groups to manipulate society in various ways. they should be aware of propaganda, biased information, and advertising, and the promotion of absurdities through irrational preaching.

10. magic would include the creation of a stable, healthy, and mostly happy society.

11. if information is rational, and subject to rational investigation, such as the scientific method, then it is generally accepted until such time as it is streongly questioned with rational evidence to the contrary

12. one must distinguish between 'truth' and facts. the morality of the common sense is a community wide morality, with a respect for minority opinions.

13. the goal of life is to be generally productive and happy, and to think rationally, good deeds are of course encouraged.

14. the ultimate goal of humankind is to become decent as a society, free from the constraints of less rational ideologies from the fringes of society.

15. common sense realised the Enlightenment movement of Western Civilization, and is notable for many notable achievements

16. emotions are generally regarded to be free, discussion is encouraged. however, harmful opinions are often best kept to one's self to prevent harming others emotionally.

17. Homo Sapiens evolved over time from other hominid species as evident by inquiry into Evolutionary processes over time.

18. there is no holy book. but reading something in an Encyclopaedia never hurts.

19. the Scientific Method is promoted for the search for facts and truth.

20. it is rational and generally free of absurdities. it also has better morals than organized religion, because morals are decided by entire communities rather than the promoters of absurdities on the fringes of society

21. instead of sins we have laws to guide society regarding morality. laws are chosen by society as a whole.

22. rationality has declined in the past due to the forces of ignorance, greed, and hatred. it is the responsibility of those with common sense to prevent such horrors from ever happenning again.

23. there may be a catastrophic event in the future. these could include such things as supervolcanoes, extinction level events, massive damage to humanity due to global warming. but not events designed by higher powers to punish humanity for "misbehaviour" such assumptions are generally regarded as absurd.

24. you should join this understanding to be free of absurdities preached by those trying to control you from the fringes of society.

25. worship is not a requirement, but respect for the natural world and respect for facts is important.

26. the understanding regards missionaries as preachers of the absurd. common sense hopes that those less fortunate can be taught facts through education.

27. moderation in all things. too much lazyness is a bad thing, but too much work can also be a bad thing.

28. the natural world is good and rational. stupidity, ignorance, irrationality, and the atrocities that come from them can be regarded as evil. Having said this. Good is a blanket concept, and Evil can be interpreted as what people don't understand. research and rational inquiry should be used to judge the morality of things.

29. yes, rationality improves the lives of all except those who desire political control by spreading absurdities, irrationality and ignorance.

30. pay little attention to the absurdities preached by religious figures, and maybe read something from an Encyclopaedia once in a while.