Countering defending naginata

[Draksen]

I have always difficulties, when attacking in multi-player games, to beat compact defending groups of naginata.

How should I try to defeat them ?



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[BakaGaijin]

You pretty much have to find a way to flank the Nagi. You can't use archers and attacking head-on with anything is asking for trouble. Muskets and Arqs might be more useful against them, but I usually don't use guns online, so I don't know for sure.

[solypsist]

the Naginata are so expensive I've fought only a few battles against opponents who've used them. Flanking tends to work against them. Also, it's a good idea just to tie them up with a cheap unit while the bulk of your army goes after the rest of the enemy force. A good way to do this is to set a unit of Yari Spear on hold formation then attack the Nagi. The formation means your men will take a much longer time to die (and lose the combat) affording you the time to rout the rest of the enemy army or at least bringing a unit around for a flank attack/muskets to fire on the Nagi. flank to rout them.

[Slyspy]

Yeah, Soly has it right. Naginta are good at staying alive, but not good at killing things. Tie them down with another defensive unit and concentrate on slaughtering the other enemy units. Then flank the naginta, gang up and rout them. Everybody can catch a fleeing naginta!

By the way, does any one know which formation naginta work best on. Engage at will of keep formation? I don't use them very often (usually for heading bridge assaults) and so haven't had enough practice to find out.


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"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

[BakaGaijin]

I always use them in Hold Formation, just as I do with Yari. Their strength is in defence, and you should be using them for holding lines always... so why not use Hold Formation to get that extra defensive bonus to an already-strong defensive unit?

[Draksen]

Thanks for answers !

Slyspy, you have said that :
"Naginata are good at staying alive, but not good at killing things."
I have a bad experience of those Naginatas against my elite units (monks or no-dachi warriors). I must admit : they are very good for keeping a "front". Because of this, I think it's the best defensive untit in the game. Do you agree ?



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Kazamatsuri clan
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[Anssi Hakkinen]

Naginata live to defend - it's their raison d'être. Their problem is that they cannot do anything else well. They're almost totally impossible to integrate into an army that makes use of highly mobile assault troops (ND, WM): hence, I almost never use them.

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"Learning is to a man as the leaves and branches are to a tree, and it can be said that he should not be without it."
- Takeda Shingen

[Vanya]

To beat Naginate do the following:

1. Buy hordes of arquebusiers. You can get 4 for the price of a single Na!

2. Put the Arquebusiers in wedge formation.

3. Lump all the gunny wedges and charge them head-first into the line of nagis. Make sure to hit the center of their line!

When the arques break through the line, they will cut a sinlge unit into two separate groups, thus imparting a morale penalty on them. The rout begins there. You club-wielding peasants will then easily chase down the fleeing nagis and give them the wedgie of their lives!

[Slyspy]

Draksen,
As I said I have not used them much. They are in theory the best defensive unit since they are difficult to kill. In practice I prefer some higher honour yari samurai or ashigaru to hold my line. Why? Two reasons really. The first is that yari troops are better at killing (especially against cavalry), and in a grindig melee it killing that counts. Their higher honour for the koku should help their survivability. The second reason is that yari infantry are faster. Thus your defense is not static. You can respond quickly to threats, or launch counter-attacks, or get out of trouble when necessary. Naginta are just too slow to do this. Oh, and they get tired more quickly as well, which effects their morale and effectiveness.

Interesting Naginta are could at assaulting bridges and establishing a beach-head. In these situations their longevity is essential, enabling them to succeed were the lightly armoured yari troops would be slaughtered before help could arrive.


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"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

[BakaGaijin]

It's probably best just to use a couple of Naginata units, rather than basing an army around them. I imagine that it would be rather effective to use them to hold specific points in a line. Stick a unit in your army, let them naturally lag behind because of their slow speed, then bring them around to react to an enemy flanking move. Use them like a rear guard, one might say. If the enemy changes his attack, you can still use the Nagi to block his flank in and screen for something with more punch to pull off a full envelopment.

Even still, it would probably be better to go with lots of Yari.

[Didz]

I usually stick my Taisho in a Nag unit just to give him a little more stability.

The downside is that they are so damn slow that if you are not careful they hold back the entire army.

[BakaGaijin]

The only time they'll hold back the army is when you use the Group feature. Since that's usually a bad idea anyway, it's no trouble to do without it.

[lanza27]

Naginata are my favorite unit. I love to use them because I am a very defensive minded person.

However the wy I get beat more often then not with my naginata heavy armies is by flanking cavalry. Monks and ND can come and my archers bury them. But the horses are a problem b/c the nag's have no chance of catching them or cutting them off.

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Lanza
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[BanzaiZAP]

I use them almost exclusively for holding important provinces. Defensive only. I use extra yari/ashisgaru in the assault armies, but then move in naginata when I control the province. They're very effective at holding bridges or making lines on a hillside. They will need support, but they will hold a position better than most other troops. Standard rectangle set to Close, Hold Position and Hold Formation. If you even give them the Armory bonuses, they're even more durable! The only problem is that you can NOT retreat with them. They're so slow, that they'll be brought down before they can escape.

-- B)