Mithrandir
09-14-2005, 20:38
You know that when they state that one out of every five Americans is functionally illiterate, I had no idea till today that they were talking about you- for only ignorance or malice or as I suspect in your case a combination of the two could rationalize a post of this sort. Why do I state this?? Well as an example let us take your statement:
Regarding the "Homelands" concept as being ahistorical? He has got to be joking!!
From his point of view he wants to be able to build the Camel unit (forget name) in Flanders; and is pissed that the MedMod will not allow him to do so. He calls this ahistorical. Claiming that after years of assimilation Camels will grow in Flanders!! ;)
The poster is not being logical on many levels, but the main point being he wants to *ahistorically* have access to *any* unit in *any* province. His basis for this reasoning is that the game is inherently ahistorical, as the Almo never did conquer Europe.
Ok, so he wishes to pile ahistory on top of ahistory, rather than make some attempt at correction.
More to the point, highlighting the contradictory nature of the poster, he rails against his PRECEIVED ahistorical nature of the Homelands concept, while, at the simultaneously, exclaiming his dissatisfaction at not being able to build Camels in Flanders!!!
Non-sensical.
Aha!! I seem to want to be able to recruit camels in Flanders, funny though that I can find no reference to camels at all in my post, I suppose it exists in some corner of your sub-human intellect sharing space with your definite proof for the following unsubstantiated improvable statements made about myself which basically calls me a sub-standard player and a sore loser, sating the following:
The truth of the matter, I think, is evident. The player had difficulty in comprehending the Mod, difficulty in playing the Mod, and even more difficulty in beating the Mod.
His appear to my view, are simply excuses. Like I said, the MedMod takes a good skill level. Those w/o the skills, will be beat and seek excuses.
Obviously you have access to my computer as well as personal experience of playing against me in multi-player due to which you can justify with irrevocable evidence for the following, If so kindly do not hesitate to share such proof with other forum members so that they may also realize the accuracy of your statements:
What I had actually stated was:
But what really infuriated me was the "Homelands Concept"(The areas where factions can recruit their units are called Homelands. ) That has to be the most ahistorical idea that I ever heard. It basically pre supposes that the historical timeline is a fixed constant with no variation allowed, which defeats the entire purpose of the game which is to allow the player to re-create the historical timelines as he or she chooses. In effect what the MedMod states is that everything is fixed, The Almohads should not be able to conquer Europe and even if they do so it is an aberration and therefore after an 100 years of Islamisation and cultural integration I still should not be able to recruit any units out of Flanders since it is not a Homeland for my faction. This is unacceptable, and remains so because the MTW engine cannot support this concept, the actual concept that was ultimately introduced by CA in RTW is culture (A concept that has nothing to do with Homelands whatever Wes claims), where one cannot immediately recruit units immediately after conquering the province but must wait till the province is culturally integrated which is the historically accurate version.
This should have been abundantly clear to any individual of average intelligence, but obviously I had not anticipated some one like you, so I shall elaborate further. As I had previously posted in the EB sub-forum I had proposed that:
The very premise of any TW game whether STW or MTW or RTW is to present Points of Divergence (POD) in the OTL(Orthodox/Our TimeLine) which leads to an Alternative Time Line or ATL. To illustrate in STW one had to lead any one faction to secure the post of Shogun which meant that clans that were in OTL unsuccessful contenders to ultimate power like the Takeda can now form the Shogunate. Similarly in MTW one had to conquer all of Europe, something that no nation has been capable of doing till date and continuing onto RTW where it is possible that the Aedui or the Casse end up ruling Rome instead of the other way around. An excellent illustration of a POD and its resultant ATL is given by Gibbon in his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire where his POD is that Charles Martel loses the Battle of Poitiers in 732 AD, whereupon he assumes the following:
A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the Rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet."
Which is the precise point that I had stated, that after a certain period of cultural integration I should be able to recruit units that are geographically and historically valid for that region, in this case I that I should be able to recruit Junds, Murtaziqa or Muttawia from Flanders which I cannot. What the MedMod does is to freeze the OTL, which I had considered as ahistorical since according to MedMod rules that British should have never been able to conquer their colonial empire since they would be restricted to only the British Isles and their possessions in France for recruitment- so no sepoy army in India or colonial army in North America prior to the American Revolution. The problem lies in the fact that Med Mod is based on a premise of Nation States and national Armies- both concepts that do not come into in to existence till the 15th century which nearly beyond the scope of MTW.
Just I have rationally clarified and repudiated this point- It is very much possible for me do the same for very point in this irrational rant that you have just made(BTW how is it that the concept of rational argument backed up a solid premise has passed you by I shall never understand.), but I refuse to do, since such a course of action would require that I vilify Wes and MedMod to such an extent that I consider detrimental to the Modding community as a whole, something I see no good reason to undertake esp. for the likes of you. For whatever my creative differences with Wes I have no problem in accepting him as one of the mainstays of the Modding community and an innovative genius in his own right- which is why after sober reflection(another activity you seem incapable of) I have deleted my previous post and edited my original post.
The second reason why I refuse to indulge you further can be explained by the following point in your post:
JFYI, the AI cannot be improved, as it is hard-coded. What can be improved in the game's overall balance creating an environment which will allow the AI to function more efficiently and closer to how it was intended.
I must admit that this came as a shock to me, this is for me the equivalent of someone stating with absolute certainty that the Earth is flat. Yes, the battle field AI is not moddable inspite of what anyone may state to the contrary, but the campaign AI is completely moddable- it operates according to a set of modifiers and attributes that are capable of being adapted to suit one’s requirements, I have done so has Wes, as has BKB or VH or several other modder. This merely proves what I had suspected all along that you have no knowledge what you so readily state, that you would have known this if you had spent more time playing the game than ranting in the forums. Then you could have also known that the reason that the alliance system seemingly works in MedMod is due to a very simple trick- basically that if you confine all factions for all purposes to their homelands they are more likely to accept alliances since as every player who has played MTW with some dedication knows that the AI always seeks to achieve the homelands goals even in the conquest mode, but I suppose the very definition of the word dedicated immediately exempts you. Just as he or she would have realized that alliances are rendered more probable if your empire is restricted.
So to sum up – what’s the point of indulging you, you have no knowledge of the game mechanics, have never understood the concept of a rational argument and are incapable of a coherent conversation where you do not flame someone.
So I have a simple idea: we could go on like this for all eternity or I propose a contest of skill-
Today is the 14th of September, let us each create a mod that is due to be released on the 1st of January, 2006(Even a Beta version is acceptable) and let the community judge our efforts, If your mod is judged better than mine I will publicly apologize to you in the forum and resign from the .org for all eternity, and naturally expect you to do the same. So do you have the guts for this or are you what I suspect you to be- a sniveling coward and a hypocrite. The Ball is in your court
Regarding the "Homelands" concept as being ahistorical? He has got to be joking!!
From his point of view he wants to be able to build the Camel unit (forget name) in Flanders; and is pissed that the MedMod will not allow him to do so. He calls this ahistorical. Claiming that after years of assimilation Camels will grow in Flanders!! ;)
The poster is not being logical on many levels, but the main point being he wants to *ahistorically* have access to *any* unit in *any* province. His basis for this reasoning is that the game is inherently ahistorical, as the Almo never did conquer Europe.
Ok, so he wishes to pile ahistory on top of ahistory, rather than make some attempt at correction.
More to the point, highlighting the contradictory nature of the poster, he rails against his PRECEIVED ahistorical nature of the Homelands concept, while, at the simultaneously, exclaiming his dissatisfaction at not being able to build Camels in Flanders!!!
Non-sensical.
Aha!! I seem to want to be able to recruit camels in Flanders, funny though that I can find no reference to camels at all in my post, I suppose it exists in some corner of your sub-human intellect sharing space with your definite proof for the following unsubstantiated improvable statements made about myself which basically calls me a sub-standard player and a sore loser, sating the following:
The truth of the matter, I think, is evident. The player had difficulty in comprehending the Mod, difficulty in playing the Mod, and even more difficulty in beating the Mod.
His appear to my view, are simply excuses. Like I said, the MedMod takes a good skill level. Those w/o the skills, will be beat and seek excuses.
Obviously you have access to my computer as well as personal experience of playing against me in multi-player due to which you can justify with irrevocable evidence for the following, If so kindly do not hesitate to share such proof with other forum members so that they may also realize the accuracy of your statements:
What I had actually stated was:
But what really infuriated me was the "Homelands Concept"(The areas where factions can recruit their units are called Homelands. ) That has to be the most ahistorical idea that I ever heard. It basically pre supposes that the historical timeline is a fixed constant with no variation allowed, which defeats the entire purpose of the game which is to allow the player to re-create the historical timelines as he or she chooses. In effect what the MedMod states is that everything is fixed, The Almohads should not be able to conquer Europe and even if they do so it is an aberration and therefore after an 100 years of Islamisation and cultural integration I still should not be able to recruit any units out of Flanders since it is not a Homeland for my faction. This is unacceptable, and remains so because the MTW engine cannot support this concept, the actual concept that was ultimately introduced by CA in RTW is culture (A concept that has nothing to do with Homelands whatever Wes claims), where one cannot immediately recruit units immediately after conquering the province but must wait till the province is culturally integrated which is the historically accurate version.
This should have been abundantly clear to any individual of average intelligence, but obviously I had not anticipated some one like you, so I shall elaborate further. As I had previously posted in the EB sub-forum I had proposed that:
The very premise of any TW game whether STW or MTW or RTW is to present Points of Divergence (POD) in the OTL(Orthodox/Our TimeLine) which leads to an Alternative Time Line or ATL. To illustrate in STW one had to lead any one faction to secure the post of Shogun which meant that clans that were in OTL unsuccessful contenders to ultimate power like the Takeda can now form the Shogunate. Similarly in MTW one had to conquer all of Europe, something that no nation has been capable of doing till date and continuing onto RTW where it is possible that the Aedui or the Casse end up ruling Rome instead of the other way around. An excellent illustration of a POD and its resultant ATL is given by Gibbon in his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire where his POD is that Charles Martel loses the Battle of Poitiers in 732 AD, whereupon he assumes the following:
A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the Rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet."
Which is the precise point that I had stated, that after a certain period of cultural integration I should be able to recruit units that are geographically and historically valid for that region, in this case I that I should be able to recruit Junds, Murtaziqa or Muttawia from Flanders which I cannot. What the MedMod does is to freeze the OTL, which I had considered as ahistorical since according to MedMod rules that British should have never been able to conquer their colonial empire since they would be restricted to only the British Isles and their possessions in France for recruitment- so no sepoy army in India or colonial army in North America prior to the American Revolution. The problem lies in the fact that Med Mod is based on a premise of Nation States and national Armies- both concepts that do not come into in to existence till the 15th century which nearly beyond the scope of MTW.
Just I have rationally clarified and repudiated this point- It is very much possible for me do the same for very point in this irrational rant that you have just made(BTW how is it that the concept of rational argument backed up a solid premise has passed you by I shall never understand.), but I refuse to do, since such a course of action would require that I vilify Wes and MedMod to such an extent that I consider detrimental to the Modding community as a whole, something I see no good reason to undertake esp. for the likes of you. For whatever my creative differences with Wes I have no problem in accepting him as one of the mainstays of the Modding community and an innovative genius in his own right- which is why after sober reflection(another activity you seem incapable of) I have deleted my previous post and edited my original post.
The second reason why I refuse to indulge you further can be explained by the following point in your post:
JFYI, the AI cannot be improved, as it is hard-coded. What can be improved in the game's overall balance creating an environment which will allow the AI to function more efficiently and closer to how it was intended.
I must admit that this came as a shock to me, this is for me the equivalent of someone stating with absolute certainty that the Earth is flat. Yes, the battle field AI is not moddable inspite of what anyone may state to the contrary, but the campaign AI is completely moddable- it operates according to a set of modifiers and attributes that are capable of being adapted to suit one’s requirements, I have done so has Wes, as has BKB or VH or several other modder. This merely proves what I had suspected all along that you have no knowledge what you so readily state, that you would have known this if you had spent more time playing the game than ranting in the forums. Then you could have also known that the reason that the alliance system seemingly works in MedMod is due to a very simple trick- basically that if you confine all factions for all purposes to their homelands they are more likely to accept alliances since as every player who has played MTW with some dedication knows that the AI always seeks to achieve the homelands goals even in the conquest mode, but I suppose the very definition of the word dedicated immediately exempts you. Just as he or she would have realized that alliances are rendered more probable if your empire is restricted.
So to sum up – what’s the point of indulging you, you have no knowledge of the game mechanics, have never understood the concept of a rational argument and are incapable of a coherent conversation where you do not flame someone.
So I have a simple idea: we could go on like this for all eternity or I propose a contest of skill-
Today is the 14th of September, let us each create a mod that is due to be released on the 1st of January, 2006(Even a Beta version is acceptable) and let the community judge our efforts, If your mod is judged better than mine I will publicly apologize to you in the forum and resign from the .org for all eternity, and naturally expect you to do the same. So do you have the guts for this or are you what I suspect you to be- a sniveling coward and a hypocrite. The Ball is in your court