View Full Version : Catholic Church Says Even Celibate Gays Should Not Be Priests
Here's an odd one: Archbishop O'Brien, the guy overseeing the reform of the Catholic seminaries and schools, has declared that even non-practising homosexuals should be barred from studying for the priesthood. (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20050907.htm#head2) Here's a direct quote:
The archbishop overseeing a Vatican-run inspection of U.S. seminaries said there is no room in seminaries for men with strong homosexual inclinations even if they have been celibate for a decade or more. "I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary," said Archbishop Edwin F. O'Brien.
So if I'm understanding this right, a priest should desire women, and only women, but never act on it. And a man can commit cold-blooded murder, repent, get a dispensation and become a priest. But a celibate gay man must not study in a seminary. Is it just me or is this kind of weird?
Adrian II
09-15-2005, 01:29
They are entitled to be as bigoted as they want, as long as they keep it to themselves.And their hands as well. :dizzy2:
Crazed Rabbit
09-15-2005, 01:32
Holy crap, are you that surprised?!
Sheesh.
Crazed Rabbit
Proletariat
09-15-2005, 01:32
Isn't their beef with their preference, not their actions? I don't see this as much of a surprise from them.
Azi Tohak
09-15-2005, 01:48
How much longer until priests can be married?
Azi
Don Corleone
09-15-2005, 03:42
Here's an odd one: Archbishop O'Brien, the guy overseeing the reform of the Catholic seminaries and schools, has declared that even non-practising homosexuals should be barred from studying for the priesthood. (http://www.catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20050907.htm#head2) Here's a direct quote:
The archbishop overseeing a Vatican-run inspection of U.S. seminaries said there is no room in seminaries for men with strong homosexual inclinations even if they have been celibate for a decade or more. "I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary," said Archbishop Edwin F. O'Brien.
So if I'm understanding this right, a priest should desire women, and only women, but never act on it. And a man can commit cold-blooded murder, repent, get a dispensation and become a priest. But a celibate gay man must not study in a seminary. Is it just me or is this kind of weird?
Are you Catholic, or are you just looking to throw stones?
Oh, so all those poor altar boys were victimised by heterosexual priests. Whatever you say, Mr. O'Brien.
O'Brien then went on to say:
O'Brien, who leads the Archdiocese for the Military Services in Washington, said ''there are some priests, I don't think there are many, some ordained people with same-sex attractions and they've done very well" remaining celibate.
''But generally speaking, in my experience, the pressures are strong in an all-male atmosphere," he said. ''And if there have been past failings, the church really must stay on the safe side. . . . The same-sex attractions have gotten us into some legal problems."Hope that clears it up for you Lemur.
Are you Catholic, or are you just looking to throw stones?
Neither Catholic nor looking to throw stones. However, I have a great deal of respect for the Catholic Church, and I'm puzzled by some of their recent decisions. If anything, this strikes me as an over-reaction to the pedophilia scandals. I'm not sure it makes sense to focus so much attention on the gay pedophiles, when there are plenty of straight ones to be worried about.
When there's a worldwide shortage of qualified priests, and celibacy is the biggest stumbling block, I don't know that it makes sense to bar celibate gay men from the order. That's all.
PanzerJaeger
09-15-2005, 06:20
If anything, this strikes me as an over-reaction to the pedophilia scandals.
I believe the british term is "Spot on!". :thumbsup:
I think its time for a new vatican council, to work out this issue and many others. The Catholic lifestyle is just as aplicable today as it was 500 years ago, it just has to continually adapt with human progression.
A.Saturnus
09-15-2005, 16:36
At least it´s proof that the catholic church has a different view on what homosexuality is than Gawain.
Duke of Gloucester
09-15-2005, 18:34
Isn't their beef with their preference, not their actions? I don't see this as much of a surprise from them.
No. The preference is not seen as sinful. The practice is. I cannot imagine how you have picked up the idea that the reverse is true.
PJ is right, it is a reaction to peadophilia scandals, and not a particularly logical one, given that some scandals involved heterosexual priests.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-15-2005, 18:50
At least it´s proof that the catholic church has a different view on what homosexuality is than Gawain.
Wow I havent even replied to this thread and you drag me in here. They have a different view only in the fact that I think if their celibate theres no reason other than political to deny them priesthood.
And that's why the Catholic Church is going to hell....
The Catholic Church does not like gays... it has never like gays... why are you surprised they won't let a gay become a priest?
This is starting to make a little more sense: (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/national/15seminary.html)
The issue of gay seminarians and priests has been in the spotlight because a study commissioned by the church found last year that about 80 percent of the young people victimized by priests were boys.
[snip]
The Rev. Donald B. Cozzens, a former seminary rector who set off a controversy five years ago when he published a book asserting that "the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession," said in an interview yesterday that many in the church had come to accept his observation.
I had no idea that 80% of the cases involved boys. I guess that makes the reasoning clear: rather than distinguish between gay men and gay pedophile men, it's safer to block them all, or at least demonstrate that you're trying to do so. This may also limit future legal liability for the Church as a whole.
Not very nice to the celibate gay priests, but at least I'm starting to understand the rationale.
Papewaio
09-16-2005, 03:54
It is their club so it is their rules.
I do think that all religions should be taxed as corporations though.
any Church that really believes in what the Bible says most definitely would not ever allow gays to be Priests
the Bible is very clear about what it says about gays. having them be Priests would be an affront against God, and a mockery of the Priest role
Ja'chyra
09-16-2005, 10:13
Catholic Church Says Even Celibate Gays Should Not Be Priests
No it didn't:
I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary
I, not the church, a personnal opinion not a rule.
The Holy See should be coming out with a document about this
Should be, not is or will be.
Any, it's their church so it's their rules.
English assassin
09-16-2005, 11:21
the Bible is very clear about what it says about gays.
Does anyone by any chance still have that link to the amusing article that says all the other things the Bible is clear about, you remember, the one that says my neighbour is clean shaven in clear contravention of Leviticus 3:12 must I stone him to death or is it acceptable to use a rifle, etc etc?
Come to think of it I think it should be an org rule that that article is posted wherever Nav posts one of his "the Bible hates gays" routines.
A.Saturnus
09-16-2005, 17:27
Wow I havent even replied to this thread and you drag me in here. They have a different view only in the fact that I think if their celibate theres no reason other than political to deny them priesthood.
Not quite. The position you defended before, namely that homosexuality is a behaviour, implies that there are no celibate homosexuals. If homosexuality is a behaviour, it is only existent where sexual behaviour is. Since celibate persons do not engage on sexual behaviour, they are neither homosexual nor heterosexual. At least according to what you said.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-16-2005, 17:32
The position you defended before, namely that homosexuality is a behaviour, implies that there are no celibate homosexuals
How so? I like many if not all others am tempted to steal. Does that make me a thief? Do I have to act on my impulses? Heterosexuality is also a behavior and no different than homosexuality in this manner. I have seen many here claim that its impossible for a heterosexual person as well to be celibant. There is no difference in this regard.
A.Saturnus
09-16-2005, 17:54
How so? I like many if not all others am tempted to steal. Does that make me a thief? Do I have to act on my impulses?
No, that´s preciesly my point. If you don´t steal, you´re not a thief. If you don´t engage in homosexual acts, you´re not homosexual. There can´t be a calibate homosexual just as there can´t be a not stealing thief. At least if one says homosexuality is a behaviour. And that´s precisely what the catholic church is not saying. Imagine they would say "thiefs cannot be priest, even if they don´t steal". That wouldn´t make sense.
What the catholic church is aknowledging here is that homosexuality is a trait, and not a behaviour.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-16-2005, 23:57
If you don´t engage in homosexual acts, you´re not homosexual.
So if you dont engage in sex with the opposite gender your not heterosexual? Is heterosexuality a trait or a behavior? You seem to be agreeing with me but not. I can see no difference between a celibant homosexual and a celibant heterosexual. This is where I and the church part company here.
Duke of Gloucester
09-17-2005, 09:25
So if you dont engage in sex with the opposite gender your not heterosexual? Is heterosexuality a trait or a behavior? You seem to be agreeing with me but not. I can see no difference between a celibant homosexual and a celibant heterosexual. This is where I and the church part company here.
Strictly speaking you part company with Cardinal O'Brien (possibly). The bible and the Catholic church condemn homosexual practice, not homosexual inclinations. I think Cardinal O'Brien is making statements about policy, not morality. I think he is saying it is too risky to ordain men with homosexual tendecies because they might later abuse children. I think this is nonsense, but it is not making any judgement about whether those with homosexual tendencies, heterosexual tendencies or both are more or less worthy of becoming priests.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-17-2005, 18:00
Strictly speaking you part company with Cardinal O'Brien (possibly). The bible and the Catholic church condemn homosexual practice, not homosexual inclinations.I think Cardinal O'Brien is making statements about policy, not morality. I think he is saying it is too risky to ordain men with homosexual tendecies because they might later abuse children.
Well thats why I say its strictly political. If he is speaking for the church. I understand his reasoning. But insnt that punishing someone before they commit a crime?
A.Saturnus
09-17-2005, 18:06
This is where I and the church part company here.
That´s exactly what I wanted to say. The curch and you disagree.But I guess you can live with that.
A.Saturnus
09-17-2005, 18:10
any Church that really believes in what the Bible says most definitely would not ever allow gays to be Priests
the Bible is very clear about what it says about gays. having them be Priests would be an affront against God, and a mockery of the Priest role
You know your bible poorly Navaros. The bible makes no statement with regard to this. It forbids a man "to lie with a man as one would lie with a woman". That´s exactly what calibate homosexuals don´t.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-17-2005, 18:17
That´s exactly what I wanted to say. The curch and you disagree.But I guess you can live with that.
Since I dont go to church , it easy. ~;)
A.Saturnus
09-17-2005, 18:32
Since I dont go to church , it easy. ~;)
Yeah, but do you go to curch? ~;) I´ll unpray for better spelling.
Gawain of Orkeny
09-17-2005, 18:40
Lets hope your unprayers are answered ~D
Follow up:
Oh look (http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2005-10-07-gaypriests_x.htm), they didn't implement the policy afterall. ~:handball:
Hurin_Rules
10-08-2005, 18:51
I'm not sure such a ban is canonical, according to the Catholic Church's own rules. Why is homosexuality different than any other sin in this regard? According to the church, God's grace has the power to save anyone. Absolution washes away the stain of sin. If this is the case, then everyone needs to be forgiven if the repent, show contrition, confess and receive absolution. Why, as some posters have noted, can murderers be forgiven and accepted as priests, but not homosexuals?
I agree with Papewaio that all churches should be taxed, just like any other private organizations.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.