All scum should be shot???a

[The Stranger]

this is the statement of Caesar010 and i would like to invite him to post his here so whe can debate on it and stop cluthering the Victim /of Crime thread :bow:

[KukriKhan]

OK (for now). Just be careful it doesn't turn into a flame-fest. You know how I get when that happens.

[The Stranger]

no, i dont actually...i've never been warned in the backroom...i got warned only for spam.

[Sjakihata]

The all scum should be shot, is not only the view of caesar010, but it is shared by, among others, Plato.

I, for one, do not agree with it - it's the easy way out, and isnt a way out actually.

[Strike For The South]

It dosent solve much people would be terrifird more power to the govrement I say wrost idea ever

[Byzantine Prince]

it's the easy way out
That's why it's better. Why degrade a person to the role of an animal in a cage? No person deserves that really. Not unless they have imprisoned others in their homes I would guess.

Theold eye for an eye works perfectly. The ancients were on to something when they developed that law.

[King Ragnar]

Yes scum should be shot, it scares others who may commit crimes and it saves time and money.

[The Stranger]

mhuaauhahahahahahahahahahhha death penalty is more pricy then life in prison...you know that dont you...and should all scum be shot or do you got certain excetions

[The Stranger]

That's why it's better. Why degrade a person to the role of an animal in a cage? No person deserves that really. Not unless they have imprisoned others in their homes I would guess.

Theold eye for an eye works perfectly. The ancients were on to something when they developed that law.

this question is to everyone...would you stick with this oppininion if it was your life at stake

[Strike For The South]

The death penalty should be for murder and treason only anything besides that should be jail time and strangers right none of us here would have the balls to have a needle stuck in us or someone we love of a parking violation or a loaf of bread

[The Stranger]

i would stick to my oppinion to the end if its worth it...but i wont be so stubborn that i cant be convinced. and i think you are only allowed to have such an oppinion when youre so coldblooded and hard as Brutus

[Sjakihata]

That's why it's better. Why degrade a person to the role of an animal in a cage? No person deserves that really. Not unless they have imprisoned others in their homes I would guess.

Theold eye for an eye works perfectly. The ancients were on to something when they developed that law.

Then follows the next question, logically. Define 'scum'.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I dont see a problem if these goups get the death penalty. And as some have pointed out to me some of these are minor.....So the more I thought of it I came up with a new solution!


rapist. die on 1st offense

murderers. die on 1st offense

burglars. 10 years in jail no parole.....you do it again you die

car jackers. same as burglary

assault. depends on what happened

Mugging. same as burglary


It is mean I know.....but criminals don't care about us.... why should I care if they die?

[King Henry V]

Rapists, murderers, paedophiles, people who mug old ladies for their pensions, burlgars, drug dealers........

[scooter_the_shooter]

It dosent solve much people would be terrifird more power to the govrement I say wrost idea ever


Well we could use lynch mobs. As long as they got the right guy I dont care what they do to him! A rope is cheap and can be used over and over ~;)



Oh add pedophiles and drug dealers to the list (thanks I forgot about them)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I find the use of the word scum objectionable. Is it a curse? How about prick? Is there a major difference between the two? ~D

[The Stranger]

untill its your son...i think killing someone is wrong...i mean how many people do you think will be in those lynchmobs cuz when they lynch someone they're next...smart...you just lower yourself to their level...if civilisation braught us to this kind of solutions...help

[scooter_the_shooter]

stranger


If I had a son I would darn well sure he would be to afraid of me to steal a pack of bubble gum!

[Sjakihata]

Rapists, murderers, paedophiles, people who mug old ladies for their pensions, burlgars, drug dealers........

Was that a reply to my definition of scum?

if so, this is clearly not a definition, but merely phenomena of scum.

[JimBob]

I take the old Hebrew version of eye for an eye. If you cause someone to go blind, you are not made blind yourself, you must serve as that person's eyes. You will read for them, walk with them, ect. If you cipple someone you're going to be pushing a wheelchair. That is justice

[Moros]

I think this is riduculous and sick. not every robbery is the same hell not every murder is the same. If some tries to kill you and while you try to defend yourself you killed him...ohw hot damn now your a murderer. Now lets kill you!
And most people don't steel because they just feel like it some "have to",... What'll you do when a cousin of yours steals a bubble gum, lock him up for 10 years.

please get real.

[The Stranger]

Well we could use lynch mobs. As long as they got the right guy I dont care what they do to him! A rope is cheap and can be used over and over ~;)



Oh add pedophiles and drug dealers to the list (thanks I forgot about them)


and that will be the result of your policy...it will frighten people to death...is that what you want...that your son is so afraid of you that he wont look you in the eyes...thaT HE DOESNT WANT TO BE WITH YOU. hast hystory learned you that terrorgoverments dont work. with that kinda laws your goverment wouldnt last for 50 years. threatening people is not the way to rule people...its the way to destroy yourself

[Strike For The South]

Well we could use lynch mobs. As long as they got the right guy I dont care what they do to him! A rope is cheap and can be used over and over ~;)


Lynch mobs what a great idea they have worked so well in the past :book: Ceaser you have to be joking the day I see a lynch mob down my street is the day America dies

[scooter_the_shooter]

Self defense is not classified as murder in the USA.


And my cousin who stole the gum knew it was wrong.....so he deserves it!
........


I think people would like to be able to walk down town at night knowing there isn't a rapist behind them!

I think any one who is not a bleeding heart liberal would not mind.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Lynch mobs what a great idea they have worked so well in the past :book: Ceaser you have to be joking the day I see a lynch mob down my street is the day America dies



If its your family member that got raped....i think I would see you in the lynch mob ~;)

[Strike For The South]

How in the hell is a lynch mob self defense my family member got raped and I knew who the guy was Id probaly kill him but Id get jail time and deservedly so

[scooter_the_shooter]

It is revenge....And my version of justice is revenge.




Come on....where is capo, I think he will back me up.

[Strike For The South]

It is revenge....And my version of justice is revenge.

sorry to burst your bubble but the wrold isnt in black and white and you cant paint everyone with one brush

[scooter_the_shooter]

Ok once you get beat half to death by some criminal......I will give him flowers, tell him it's societies fault and give him a tv while he is in jail for 6 months.....thats how our justice system seems now :dizzy2:


well my AOE 3 demo just got done downloading....I will post back soon

[King Henry V]

It is revenge....And my version of justice is revenge.




Come on....where is capo, I think he will back me up.
Revenge is justice.

[Strike For The South]

If I get half beaten to death the guy will get more than 6 months I can assure you and it is his fault but calling for a tyrannical goverment and lynch mobs is idiocy

[Productivity]

Ok once you get beat half to death by some criminal......I will give him flowers, tell him it's societies fault and give him a tv while he is in jail for 6 months.....thats how our justice system seems now :dizzy2:

And since when has sfts been advocating that?

There is a reason why it makes sense to view punishment as a contiuoum with capital punishment at one end and something similar to what you said above at the other. Just because sfts (or any other) advocates somethign different to you, it does not mean they support the opposite extreme. And quite frankly if your looking for extremists like capo to back you up your really struggling. Nothing against capo, just he's an extremist - its logical that he will support it. When you can convince a moderate come back and tell me that it's a reasonable idea.

[The Stranger]

people dont like to see their brother killed cuz he stole a car...
children dont like to see their dad killed cuz he stole bread for dinner...
people will be terrified and will try to destroy the goverment that uses this policy

i quote again

and that will be the result of your policy...it will frighten people to death...is that what you want...that your son is so afraid of you that he wont look you in the eyes...thaT HE DOESNT WANT TO BE WITH YOU. hast hystory learned you that terrorgoverments dont work. with that kinda laws your goverment wouldnt last for 50 years. threatening people is not the way to rule people...its the way to destroy yourself

[TosaInu]

There are two problems. Sjakihata mentioned one, the second is also mentioned, but to put it clear:

how do we know for sure that someone meets the definition and that he's not falsely accused and proved guilty?

[The Stranger]

yup...how bout that...if yall want them to get a punishment you give m isolation room for life so they can think about what they done wrong...but no man has the right to end one's life. death is the easy way out but also the unjustified one.

[King Henry V]

Was that a reply to my definition of scum?

if so, this is clearly not a definition, but merely phenomena of scum.
Scum are people who have shown through their actions that they are the lowest of the low, they are not human, they have not an ounce of kindenss or decency, they are evil.

[AntiochusIII]

Revenge is justice.Is it so? What kind of revenge, exactly?

In fact, I don't want to bring religion in here, but only as an example (and do recognize I am a non-believer), but isn't the New Testament denies the righteousness of revenge?

Buddhism, it seems, have similar philosophies, as well.

[Moros]

Revenge is justice.
so the brother of the guy who's been killed because he used drugs can kill the judge, the lawyer, you (since the law was your idea anyway),...?

[Kagemusha]

What has now happened that lynch mobs should be started?Its easy to start a lynching mob when people are angry but when bloodthirsty people get the taste of blood it will end in a carnage one way or another.

[scooter_the_shooter]

people dont like to see their brother killed cuz he stole a car...
children dont like to see their dad killed cuz he stole bread for dinner...
people will be terrified and will try to destroy the goverment that uses this policy

i quote again

and that will be the result of your policy...it will frighten people to death...is that what you want...that your son is so afraid of you that he wont look you in the eyes...thaT HE DOESNT WANT TO BE WITH YOU. hast hystory learned you that terrorgoverments dont work. with that kinda laws your goverment wouldnt last for 50 years. threatening people is not the way to rule people...its the way to destroy yourself


NO ONE is stupid enough to steal if they know they will be killed....the point of my idea is that you probably would rarely have yo use it because there will be very few crimes!



WTH my son would not be a thug so he would not have to be afraid.


This will put fear into the criminals, normal law abiding people would be able to walk downtown at night. Average joe wouldd not have to worry about criminals....criminals would be afraid to break the law.

[King Henry V]

if yall want them to get a punishment you give m isolation room for life so they can think about what they done wrong...
Please do me a favour...reflect on what the yhave done wrong? What do you think they are, children who don't know what they are doing? You do that with a young kid who nicked five pounds fromy our wallet to teach them not to do it again.

[King Henry V]

so the brother of the guy who's been killed because he used drugs can kill the judge, the lawyer, you (since the law was your idea anyway),...?
Somebody who has done wrong should pay heavily for what they have done. That is revenge. Revenge for someone punished is mistaken revenge.

[Don Corleone]

As hard as it is to do, I don't believe any true follower of Christ can advocate for the death penalty. Even in extreme cases, like John Wayne Gasey. Christ tells us we are all flawed in God's eyes, and just as He has forgiven us, so too we MUST find a way to forgive others. Life imprisonment is one thing, because it's also a safety mechanism. I was a strong advocate of the death penalty for pretty much all my life. But go and read Matthew 18 and tell me if you still believe Christ would support the death penalty. I understand all the arguments in favor of capital punishment better than most. But I cannot reconcile the death penalty with the life Christ calls me to lead. Sorry.

[Moros]

but every body has a different view of what is called revenge so how are you going to difine it and what if someone murdered someone out of revenge for example a wife kills her man because he cheated it this ok then? should she be murdered to or was it plainly revenge...?

[Strike For The South]

As hard as it is to do, I don't believe any true follower of Christ can advocate for the death penalty. Even in extreme cases, like John Wayne Gasey. Christ tells us we are all flawed in God's eyes, and just as He has forgiven us, so too we MUST find a way to forgive others. Life imprisonment is one thing, because it's also a safety mechanism. I was a strong advocate of the death penalty for pretty much all my life. But go and read Matthew 18 and tell me if you still believe Christ would support the death penalty. I understand all the arguments in favor of capital punishment better than most. But I cannot reconcile the death penalty with the life Christ calls me to lead. Sorry.

I understand that Don but at the same time a man who has raped and murder a 6 year dosent deserve to draw another breath and if that makes me a sinner or wrong in gods eyes then I shall repent but I cant have that man wegihing on my concinse

[Moros]

but what if he wasn't the guy who did?

[The Stranger]

NO ONE is stupid enough to steal if they know they will be killed....the point of my idea is that you probably would rarely have yo use it because there will be very few crimes!



WTH my son would not be a thug so he would not have to be afraid.


This will put fear into the criminals, normal law abiding people would be able to walk downtown at night. Average joe wouldd not have to worry about criminals....criminals would be afraid to break the law.

if no one is so stupid WHY ISNT DEATHROW empty then. ofcourse he'll steal its or steal and try not to get caught or die. easy choise aint it.


...thats not what you said...you said you would scare him so much that he wouldnt become a thug...i say that wouldnt work...he'll hate you for it...the same thing the people will do if you'll release this policy. and when the people think the goverment isnt working good (or sumthing like it) they got the right to overtrow the goverment.

[Strike For The South]

but what if he wasn't the guy who did?

We would neeed to be absoultely positive before we did it

[Moros]

how can you be absolutly sure about antyhing.

[The Stranger]

Please do me a favour...reflect on what the yhave done wrong? What do you think they are, children who don't know what they are doing? You do that with a young kid who nicked five pounds fromy our wallet to teach them not to do it again.

what makes you thin k the year old can learn and change and the 25 year old cant ~;)

[Strike For The South]

how can you be absolutly sure about antyhing.

As best we can

[Moros]

they got the right to overtrow the goverment.
ohw no he's going to change that law isn't he? he'll say if the government is doing the right things in Strike of the Souths way of view everybody who tries to rebel must be killed. But if SotS thinks they're not well then lets kill that government.

[The Stranger]

strike for south...As best we can isnt enough when you talk about lifes.

[Kagemusha]

how can you be absolutly sure about antyhing.

Thats why our countries shouldnt use the death sentence.When its peacetime we have the time to if found guilty put serious criminals to prison and released if later found innocent.Altough i dont support death sentence in peacetime,i think prisons shoud be more like labour camps rather then Hotels. :whip:

[Strike For The South]

What about someone who picks him out of a lineup or there are witnesses thats pretty sure in my book

[The Stranger]

Gert keep it civil...i dont want this thread closed...and SotS what caused the sudden turn of view...in the first page you stated worst idea ever...

[Moros]

Thats why our countries shouldnt use the death sentence.When its peacetime we have the time to if found guilty put serious criminals to prison and released if later found innocent.Altough i dont support death sentence in peacetime,i think prisons shoud be more like labour camps rather then Hotels. :whip:
amen to that bro'!

[Strike For The South]

ohw no he's going to change that law isn't he? he'll say if the government is doing the right things in Strike of the Souths way of view everybody who tries to rebel must be killed. But if SotS thinks they're not well then lets kill that government.

I was talking about murders and treasonists if a war ever does break out here with the majority of the populace behind pepole will get the death penalty but it dosent mean you should back down if its something you belive

[Moros]

can't I even use sarcsm anymore?
oh well at least we can still kill people...ok I'll stop now (I just had to say this)

he can be manupilted, bribed or perhaps the murderer himself...

[Strike For The South]

Gert keep it civil...i dont want this thread closed...and SotS what caused the sudden turn of view...in the first page you stated worst idea ever...

I was talking about ceaser view of punshment as a whole not just the death penalty and gret that was sarcasm ~:confused: It went over my head sorry ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[Moros]

just a question but wich states (within the USA and other nations) have dead penalties?

[The Stranger]

Scum are people who have shown through their actions that they are the lowest of the low, they are not human, they have not an ounce of kindenss or decency, they are evil.

is that what you see in a man who stole a wallet or a bread to feed his family

[Moros]

And what about doctors who lose a patient?
they get sued you sometimes you know! there aren't gonna be a lot of doctors left if you do something like that.

[Kagemusha]

What about someone who picks him out of a lineup or there are witnesses thats pretty sure in my book

The point is as a society,we dont have to execute him or her.I would prefer a lifetime of forced labour.If he or she doesnt want live a life like that that, human has always the option to end it himself.Then its that humans own choise.

[Sjakihata]

Suicide is illegal in many countries.

[Strike For The South]

just a question but wich states (within the USA and other nations) have dead penalties?

Here is some info the death penalty was abolished here in 72 (I think) but in 76 A man named Gary Gilmore asked for it in Utah and that eventually turned the tide and the sumpreme court reinstated it in 77 here are the states

The # on the left is men excuted the # on the right are on death row


Executions since 1976, by jurisdiction
Jurisdiction Executions
since 1976
Texas 344 446
Virginia 94 23
Oklahoma 77 97
Missouri 64 57
Florida 60 382
Georgia 38 113
North Carolina 36 198
South Carolina 33 74
Alabama 32 195
Louisiana 27 94
Arkansas 26 38
Arizona 22 131
Ohio 16 202
Delaware 13 19
Indiana 13 35
Illinois 12 9
Nevada 11 86
California 11 639
Mississippi 6 70
Utah 6 10
Maryland 4 9
Washington 4 11
Pennsylvania 3 231
U.S. Federal Gov't. 3 35
Nebraska 3 8
Montana 3 3
Kentucky 2 36
Oregon 2 32
Tennessee 1 106
Idaho 1 20
Connecticut 1 7
Colorado 1 3
New Mexico 1 2
Wyoming 1 2
New Jersey 0 15
Kansas
(On December 17 2004, the death penalty statute of Kansas was declared unconstitutional) 0 7
U.S. Military 0 7
New York
(On June 24 2004, the death penalty statute of New York was declared unconstitutional) 0 2
South Dakota 0 4
New Hampshire 0 0
United States
total 969 3,449*
no current death penalty statute: Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico.

[Kagemusha]

Suicide is illegal in many countries.

Yes it is.But wery hard to stop. ~;)

[TosaInu]

Yes it is.But wery hard to stop. ~;)

Just punish suicide with the dead penalty; that should make them think!

[Kagemusha]

Just punish suicide with the dead penalty; that should make them think!

But i dont support death penalty.Me thinks 200 years in prison would be proper punishment ~;)

[The Stranger]

ahahahhahahaha that reply is worth a sig...hshhhahahahhaaha

[Sjakihata]

I know it's silly that suicide is illegal. I mean, who the **** thinks he can decide if I can take my own life or not?!?

[Kagemusha]

I know it's silly that suicide is illegal. I mean, who the **** thinks he can decide if I can take my own life or not?!?

Where is Pindar when we need him?Im sure he would explain this to us ~;)

[The Stranger]

i think sjak as a point...only yourself must judge about your life but bout your life only unless youre a judge etc

[Sjakihata]

Where is Pindar when we need him?Im sure he would explain this to us ~;)

yes, it would be interresting where the though developed. legal/juridical history. im sure Pindar would know.

[King Henry V]

is that what you see in a man who stole a wallet or a bread to feed his family
Did anyone call pcikpocketers or shoplifters scum? And please stop with the pathetic "he only did it to feed his family". We're talking about the Western world here, there are soup kitchens.

[Meneldil]

NO ONE is stupid enough to steal if they know they will be killed....

Oh yeah ? Then dare to explain me why there are still pedophilia, murders and things like that in countries with death penalty ? Look like it doesn't work that well ?

China is actually the country with the more death penalties applied, yet there are more and more crimes there. Why is that ?

Then, if you're waiting for people like PJ and Kapo to support you, I guess your point of view is clearly doomed and pointless. It would be like asking Mao and Stalin to support my views about capitalism.

[King Henry V]

But why allow padeophiles the pleasure of living?

[The Stranger]

Did anyone call pcikpocketers or shoplifters scum? And please stop with the pathetic "he only did it to feed his family". We're talking about the Western world here, there are soup kitchens.

when talking about xtreme topics you must come with xtreme arguments...and i guess you want to see this in the entire world so...and what is the difference from stealing 20 gucci purses in the shop and stealing a car. you Caesar called carjackers scum...

when whe're the western world...oh sooooo civilised and whe see murder as uncivilised....THEN WHY ANSWER MURDER WITH MURDER...WHY LOWER YOURSELF TO THEIR LEVEL...THATS STUPID...some of you clearly never saw poverty and think that just by scaring the bejezus outa everyone they'll stop fighting for their existance

[The Stranger]

But why allow padeophiles the pleasure of living?

cuz nobody has the right to kill a human being...and everyone has the right to live. and if you believe that it goes for everyone no matter what he has done.

[King Henry V]

Crjackers are those who kump into an unsuspecting victims car and force them, often by gunpoint, to go where carjackers wants them to go.. Sometimes he would shoot the person and take the car.

The killing of murderer is not murder. Murder is when an innocent victim is killed. Yes, nobody has the right to kill a human being. But scum are not humans. Their deeds have stripped them of any claim to be human.

[The Stranger]

why are they not human...maybe youre right bout serial killers...but a human is no human when he makes no mistakes

[Moros]

but there are no poor in Usa everybodys rich over there!!!
no serious, there are enough people who freeze to death in countrys like Usa and European countrys because they hve no home would it be wrong for them to steal a jacket? perhaps yes? must they be executed ofcourse! a problem less right?

[King Henry V]

why are they not human...maybe youre right bout serial killers...but a human is no human when he makes no mistakes
Oh so raping or killing someone is a just a mistake. "Oh sorry, mate, didn't mean to do, ti was just a mistake".

[Moros]

It wouldn't be the first time when someone killed someone by mistake.
A rape would be more difficult.

but accidents do happen and they can be lethal...now lets kill him gnah,gnah!

[PanzerJaeger]

Then, if you're waiting for people like PJ and Kapo to support you, I guess your point of view is clearly doomed and pointless. It would be like asking Mao and Stalin to support my views about capitalism.

~:confused:

[Moros]

lol

[BDC]

Death Penalty is a useless deterrent. We have a lower murder rate than the USA, and don't have the death penalty. China has a horrific execution rate and still lots of crime.

Execution was only removed here because it was useless. There's only so many starving bread thieves you can execute before it becomes obvious it's not working.

[The Stranger]

Oh so raping or killing someone is a just a mistake. "Oh sorry, mate, didn't mean to do, ti was just a mistake".

i didnt meant only that kinda mistakes...a man can make the wrong descision and do the wrong thing...does that makes him less human...a man can kill someone outa anger does that makes him less human.

[King Henry V]

Hello, before Britain abolished the death penalty, they were not hanging bread thieves. So execution is useless. And prison works, does it? Do 12 year sentences for murder work? Why should these people be even allowed to reproduce, let alone be free after a dozen years?

[The Stranger]

there will always be criminals cuz all people think I WONT HAPPEN TO ME!!! no punishment will truly work. but to end a mans life is never a solution...

why they must live...cuz theyre inteligent and can learn from their mistakes...

Take Tooki williams the gangleader of the cribs...sentenced to deathrow later awarded with the nobleprice for peace.

isnt that a reason why they should live

[Soulforged]

Suicide is illegal in many countries. Wich?

On the subject, please if anybody is talking seriously about this subject, then i'm not surprised to see such much violence and irrationality on the world. Scum, is profinling of persons, many of them just commits mistakes, and if they don't then it's not for us to judge. Kill them will not solve anyproblem, will just be another unnecessary evil done with no purpose more than vengeance. When we'll evolve? I expect that no one is saying this seriouly, i mean it.
Oh so raping or killing someone is a just a mistake. "Oh sorry, mate, didn't mean to do, ti was just a mistake". :dizzy2: You've won the price of ignorance in this thread, yes they can commit both in ignorance *holds the flame*...ufff :wall:

[Steppe Merc]

Henry, it is better for a murder to go free after a dozen years, than to murder innocents, and even non innocents. The state has no right to kill people.

Besides, you're missing BDC's point. He was exagerating, but the fact is that the death penalty does not stop crime. If the death penalty stopped crime, then their wouldn't be the continuing need to execute criminals. However, the places that kill the most people each year still kill more than others the next year, and the next and the next. Obviously, criminals are not stopping.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I don't believe suicide is a crime anywhere.

Attempted suicide is sometimes a punishable crime, but suicide is not, for obvious reasons.

Seamus

[Soulforged]

I don't believe suicide is a crime anywhere.

Attempted suicide is sometimes a punishable crime, but suicide is not, for obvious reasons.

Seamus
Yes but then the conduct is punishable, i want to know what country has that kind of retrograde legislation.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yes but then the conduct is punishable, i want to know what country has that kind of retrograde legislation.

Just looked this up (straightdope.com)


The Christian opposition to suicide hardened starting with fifth-century theologian Augustine of Hippo, who argued that offing yourself is never justifiable because it violates God's injunction "thou shalt not kill." Suicides were deemed to have committed a mortal sin and denied Christian burial. Church law influenced civil law, and by the tenth century suicide in England was considered not just a crime but a felony. English common law distinguished a suicide, who was by definition of unsound mind, from a felo-de-se or "evildoer against himself," who had coolly decided to end it all and thereby perpetrated an infamous crime. Such a person forfeited his entire estate to the crown. Furthermore his corpse was subjected to public indignities, such as being dragged through the streets and hung from the gallows, and was finally consigned to "ignominious burial," as the legal scholars put it--the favored method was beneath a crossroads with a stake driven through the body. Other European states established similar laws, apparently hoping they would serve as deterrents. As time went on the punishments lessened. By the 17th century an English suicide forfeited only personal property; his heirs could still get his real estate. But the basic notion of suicide as a crime wasn't swept away in France till the revolution, and in England it took even longer: ignominious burial wasn't abolished until 1823 nor property forfeiture till 1870, and the deed itself remained a crime (albeit only a misdemeanor, and a rarely prosecuted one at that) until 1961. In many jurisdictions you can still be prosecuted for helping someone kill himself, and assisted suicide remains a hotly debated topic not just in the UK but in much of the world.

In the U.S. suicide has never been treated as a crime nor punished by property forfeiture or ignominious burial. (Some states listed it on the books as a felony but imposed no penalty.) Curiously, as of 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime--North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma. Of course they didn't take matters as seriously as the Roman emperor Hadrian, who in 117 AD declared attempted suicide by soldiers a form of desertion and made it--no joke this time--a capital offense.

--CECIL ADAMS

Leave it to the Brits to make it grounds for siezing property. :dizzy2:

Seamus

[Soulforged]

Just looked this up (straightdope.com)
Leave it to the Brits to make it grounds for siezing property. :dizzy2:

Seamus
Thanks for the quote I imagined that. Anyway, God should have say things more clearly to Moses, I'll pass a letter to him, and add this: "thou shalt not kill other people, only in selfdefence or state of necesity". ~D ~:cheers:

[bmolsson]

Rape is a rather difficult crime. Only a few percentage of all rapes are made by a stranger in the public. Most of all rapes are between people that know each other.
Can a husband rape his wife (or vice versa) ?
When can a girl say no without it being her fault when the no is rejected ?

Furthermore, murder versus self defense is also a rather subjective thing. Sometimes I have a feeling that its enough to be on an Americans property to give him the right to shoot me, so being invited for afternoon tea seems to have its risks......

The whole "shot'em all" view seems to be a bit neanderthal to me. Actually revenge is something I see as medieval and not really has anything to do with a modern society.

[Soulforged]

Rape is a rather difficult crime. Only a few percentage of all rapes are made by a stranger in the public. Most of all rapes are between people that know each other.
Can a husband rape his wife (or vice versa) ?
When can a girl say no without it being her fault when the no is rejected ? And not only that, many rapers don't even represent themselves that they're actually commiting rape or stupre.


Furthermore, murder versus self defense is also a rather subjective thing. Sometimes I have a feeling that its enough to be on an Americans property to give him the right to shoot me, so being invited for afternoon tea seems to have its risks...... Well it has to have a subjective component but without certain objective circumstances there's not a single possibility to make space for legitime defense. In short it requires actual danger (from the objective point of view).

The whole "shot'em all" view seems to be a bit neanderthal to me. Actually revenge is something I see as medieval and not really has anything to do with a modern society. Agree, but it seems that some people have not learned the lesson yet, maybe we should accuse them of something (because it's beautiful when they're actually inocents) and menace with death penalty, then they'll know that we all are humans and falible, and will know the pain that the convicted feels.

[Slyspy]

Once upon a time in Britain we had laws similar to those which caesar desires. You could indeed be hung for stealing a loaf of bread (whether you were was left to the whim of the judge). Or you could be transported, which often amounted to the same thing but slower. The executions were carried out in public as a demostration of the system at work and as a warning those watching. For some offenses the body would be gibbeted and left on display as further warning.

Guess what - it didn't work. The executions became entertainment, a day at the fair. People stripped the gibbets for trophies. The fear of capture and death was there of course but people ran the risks anyway, often with more violence. If you are going to hang for theft then why not kill the victim as well? It may save you neck by helping you escape and if caught the result is the same anyway. People still got drunk and did stupid, nasty things. People still stole out of need and greed.

As a further note: how do you define scum? Sure its easy when it is the little chav who stole your car, or the lunatic who ate your neighbour but what about the railway exec whose negligence cost people their lives, but who is a caring family man and pillar of the community? Or the business man who ruins thousands by thieving from the company pension fund while being prominent man in society with powerful connections? Would they hang too? They should, but you know they won't.

[yesdachi]

I can’t believe that soooo many people are soooo against executing criminals. And that there are soooo many people ok with punishments like life in prison. ~:confused:

People think that if a criminal is put in jail that they are separated from society and don’t affect it anymore. This is very wrong; they interact with other inmates who are being “rehabilitated” and will eventually be released back into society. A person in for a life sentence is a burden on the state and a negative influence on other inmates.

I was talking with a friend of mine who is a prison guard, I love hearing some of the stories ~D , and we were discussing where they (inmates) would go after they get out. He said without hesitation that he wouldn’t want them moving in next to him (honestly, I don’t think they would want to ~;) ). Which brings me to the question, where should they live? Rehabilitated in the eyes of the state but do you want a former rapist living next to you and your wife? Or a former child molester across the street from your kid’s school? I think when deciding on a punishment one must look at the criminals life after the punishment is over to decide if the punishment is appropriate. Exile was on accepted option back in the day but there are no uninhabited places left on earth, so these former criminals will be “next door” to someone, should it be next door to you?

[The Stranger]

i dont mind having them next door. and it has been proven that life in prison is less expensive then deathrow. some people will never learn those should never be released back in society...but their life mustnt be taken either (unless they want to). some will learn but when you dont give them a chance to prove it they have no other choice but to go back to their old criminal path

[yesdachi]

and it has been proven that life in prison is less expensive then deathrow.
Can you put a price tag on the amount of influence prisoners with life sentences push on to rehabilitating inmates? Forcing a prisoner to live with another prisoner who has no chance of becoming rehabilitated is cruel and unusual punishment IMO. Those sentenced to life will never be a positive effect on society, ever, anywhere and should be removed from society completely, not hidden in a prison where they can still affect others.

[Steppe Merc]

Obviously we would need to seperate life prisoners than those who have lesser offenses. And that is starting to happen. Prisons are being more divided by how well the prisoner will cooperate. You don't have the serial murder who's minimum sentence is 150 years with a guy who was dealing cocaine.
But it does need to be changed more. I never understood arguments about prisons not working or having to short of a time, obvisouly they would need to change with the removal of the death penalty.

[sharrukin]

and it has been proven that life in prison is less expensive then deathrow.

Well actually it hasn't. The Duke University study was badly flawed. The Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration NOT actually being life without parole.
The death penalty cases had nine other cases added to its cost with the reasoning that if the state asked for the death penalty and didn't get it that was part of the cost as well. This was based on the idea that only 10% of those sentenced to death are actually executed. In actual fact its closer to 30% or 40% in Texas.



As hard as it is to do, I don't believe any true follower of Christ can advocate for the death penalty. Even in extreme cases, like John Wayne Gasey. Christ tells us we are all flawed in God's eyes, and just as He has forgiven us, so too we MUST find a way to forgive others. Life imprisonment is one thing, because it's also a safety mechanism. I was a strong advocate of the death penalty for pretty much all my life. But go and read Matthew 18 and tell me if you still believe Christ would support the death penalty. I understand all the arguments in favor of capital punishment better than most. But I cannot reconcile the death penalty with the life Christ calls me to lead. Sorry.

But wouldn't Matthew 18 also apply to imprisonment as well? It is punishment just as surely as the death penalty is. Forgiving others doesn't mean denying justice. You do not oppose imprisonment so how does Matthew 18 apply to the death penalty but not imprisonment? Isn't Jesus talking about a personal desire for vengeance rather than justice? Judgment will be rendered against those who are unforgiving of others in this life but again that is different than justice. I think?

Genesis 9:6: "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

This was before "The Law" of the Pharisees came into being so even if you believe Jesus caused The Law to pass away it does not invalidate this does it? I honestly don't know if this and the Ten Commandments are part of The Law or not?

Anyway in the New Testament;

Matthew 15
Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Luke 20:
20:8 Then Jesus said to them, "Neither shall I tell you by what authority I do these things."
20:9 Then he proceeded to tell the people this parable. "(A) man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and then went on a journey for a long time.
20:10 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenant farmers to receive some of the produce of the vineyard. But they beat the servant and sent him away empty-handed.
20:11 So he proceeded to send another servant, but him also they beat and insulted and sent away empty-handed.
20:12 Then he proceeded to send a third, but this one too they wounded and threw out.
20:13 The owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I shall send my beloved son; maybe they will respect him.'
20:14 But when the tenant farmers saw him they said to one another, 'This is the heir. Let us kill him that the inheritance may become ours.'
20:15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 3 What will the owner of the vineyard do to them?
20:16 He will come and put those tenant farmers to death and turn over the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they exclaimed, "Let it not be so!"
20:17 But he looked at them and asked, "What then does this scripture passage mean: 'The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone'?
20:18 Everyone who falls on that stone will be dashed to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls."
20:19 The scribes and chief priests sought to lay their hands on him at that very hour, but they feared the people, for they knew that he had addressed this parable to them.

Luke 19
Luke 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Romans 13
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Revelations 13
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Acts 25
25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.

[The Stranger]

cool christian warfare ~D

[Steppe Merc]

You can't take scriptures as law. All of them were written many years after the fact, by people who were not even there.

[yesdachi]

Obviously we would need to seperate life prisoners than those who have lesser offenses.
I agree, but I am just suggesting that we separate them one step further. :hanged:

[Don Corleone]

Sharrukin,

In the passages you cite, Jesus is talking about the fate that is in store for people who mistreat fellow human beings, not what Jesus is advocating we should actually do to each other. In the first Matthew passage, the 'death' He's talking about is not being ressurected. In the 2nd Matthew passage, He's talking about the way the nation of Israel has mistreated the prophets, and eventually, the Son of God Himself.

Matthew 18:21-35

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." The 'debt' here is not cash, it's justice. There's plenty of other chapters where Jesus talks about reserving judgement and not indulging in vengance,

If the sole reason for imprisoning people was to punish them to satisfy our need for vengance, we would indeed be violating Christ's law. That's not the only reason why we do it. We also do it to remove threats from the general population and to attempt to rehabilitate them. Based on that, incarceration is okay.

[Soulforged]

[QUOTE]I can’t believe that soooo many people are soooo against executing criminals. And that there are soooo many people ok with punishments like life in prison. And i cannot believe your ignorance gets that high.

People think that if a criminal is put in jail that they are separated from society and don’t affect it anymore. This is very wrong; they interact with other inmates who are being “rehabilitated” and will eventually be released back into society. A person in for a life sentence is a burden on the state and a negative influence on other inmates. The state cannot take higher moral ground or decide over the lives of human beings, period, some state didn't undertand that, it seems that you didn't either. On the other hand I'm also against privation of freedom, one goes against the right to live the other against the right for freedom, this second is more discussable. The rehabilitation teory is loosing partidaries on the judicial and legislative world, now is just retribution or prevention that justify the punishment.
I
was talking with a friend of mine who is a prison guard, I love hearing some of the stories ~D , and we were discussing where they (inmates) would go after they get out. He said without hesitation that he wouldn’t want them moving in next to him (honestly, I don’t think they would want to ~;) ). Which brings me to the question, where should they live? Rehabilitated in the eyes of the state but do you want a former rapist living next to you and your wife? Or a former child molester across the street from your kid’s school? I think when deciding on a punishment one must look at the criminals life after the punishment is over to decide if the punishment is appropriate. Exile was on accepted option back in the day but there are no uninhabited places left on earth, so these former criminals will be “next door” to someone, should it be next door to you? I tend to not judge the persons for they past actions, I recommend that you, as a human, recognice the defects of human kind, and accept that all of us make mistakes. The state also appears to forget that they only judge actions and not persons, is a huge difference.

[The Stranger]

how can you teach children that killing is wrong when you kill a man for stealing a car?

[yesdachi]

And i cannot believe your ignorance gets that high.
It is impossible to calculate the height of my ignorance. There are entire libraries on subjects I am ignorant on but this statement is nothing more than an exasperated observation of something “I can’t believe” not that I am ignorant about.


The state cannot take higher moral ground or decide over the lives of human beings, period, some state didn't undertand that, it seems that you didn't either. On the other hand I'm also against privation of freedom, one goes against the right to live the other against the right for freedom, this second is more discussable. The rehabilitation teory is loosing partidaries on the judicial and legislative world, now is just retribution or prevention that justify the punishment.

I don’t understand what you are trying to say here, it doesn’t relate to what you have quoted. I’ll try to summarize and reply to your comments though.

States can’t decide over the lives of human beings? They can if we give them the authority to, which we have. The state cares for us and disciplines us because “we” have given the state the authority to. The amount of care and discipline are what “we” allow them to give thru laws and such.

I think I understand that you are against killing and depriving others of their freedom but you are willing to discuss the amount of freedom that should/could be deprived. That's fair.

In this last part I think you are trying to say that you don’t think jail time is about rehabilitation anymore as much as it is about retribution and punishment. If this is the case then you think that its ok for inmates that will return to society to be forced to interact and be influenced by lifers who could care less about rehabilitation because they will never return to society.

I think my statement is dead on. Criminals in jail do affect society, are a burden on the state, and are a negative influence on other inmates.


I I tend to not judge the persons for they past actions...
Now this is something I just disagree with you on. I completely judge people on their past. I am naturally skeptical, and the nature of the situation decides on the degree of care I give to any decisions I make. I don’t like people to wear shoes in my house; a friend of mine always wears his shoes into my house and I remind him not to. Next time he comes over I bet he will wear his shoes into my house, he says he wont but I am skeptical, even if he does it doesn’t matter because the transgression is not that severe but others are more dire and not worth the risk. Someone convicted of embezzling as an account says he won’t do it again but I wouldn’t hire him as my accountant, the risk is too great. A convicted child molester says he won’t do it again but I wouldn’t send my kids to his daycare, the risk is too great. I could go on but I think I have made my point. In my eyes, what you have done in the past affects your future and how people will interact with you. Sometimes the risk is too great to deal with criminals, rehabilitated or not, and I would rather not put my family, friends or society at risk.

I don’t want serious criminals in any part of my society and the only way to completely remove them is death.


@ The Stranger (just avoid a 2nd post) I wouldn’t teach children that killing is wrong and neither is steeling a car under the right circumstances. Circumstances are what determines “wrong”.

[The Stranger]

i agree with you bout the last part...

[scooter_the_shooter]

Hay stranger you keep bringing up this son that I don't even have.



Well What if that man you didn't want killed.....


Moves next door

abducts the kid


sexually assaults him

cuts his fingers off

sets him on fire while he is alive

and when my son is dead throws his body in the river....


Can we kill the maniac yet?

[Soulforged]

[QUOTE]It is impossible to calculate the height of my ignorance. There are entire libraries on subjects I am ignorant on but this statement is nothing more than an exasperated observation of something “I can’t believe” not that I am ignorant about. No it's, but I've been warned so I cannot repeat this.

I don’t understand what you are trying to say here, it doesn’t relate to what you have quoted. I’ll try to summarize and reply to your comments though.


States can’t decide over the lives of human beings? They can if we give them the authority to, which we have. The state cares for us and disciplines us because “we” have given the state the authority to. The amount of care and discipline are what “we” allow them to give thru laws and such. Wrong they decide over certain subjects that concern your life and freedom, not over your right to exist.

I think I understand that you are against killing and depriving others of their freedom but you are willing to discuss the amount of freedom that should/could be deprived. That's fair. Well I like to see that.

In this last part I think you are trying to say that you don’t think jail time is about rehabilitation anymore as much as it is about retribution and punishment. If this is the case then you think that its ok for inmates that will return to society to be forced to interact and be influenced by lifers who could care less about rehabilitation because they will never return to society. What society or the convicted does after he comes out it's not a problem of the state.

I think my statement is dead on. Criminals in jail do affect society, are a burden on the state, and are a negative influence on other inmates. This doesn't matter, your talking about morals, and for that reason morals have little space on penal law.


Now this is something I just disagree with you on. I completely judge people on their past. I am naturally skeptical, and the nature of the situation decides on the degree of care I give to any decisions I make. I don’t like people to wear shoes in my house; a friend of mine always wears his shoes into my house and I remind him not to. Next time he comes over I bet he will wear his shoes into my house, he says he wont but I am skeptical, even if he does it doesn’t matter because the transgression is not that severe but others are more dire and not worth the risk. Someone convicted of embezzling as an account says he won’t do it again but I wouldn’t hire him as my accountant, the risk is too great. A convicted child molester says he won’t do it again but I wouldn’t send my kids to his daycare, the risk is too great. I could go on but I think I have made my point. In my eyes, what you have done in the past affects your future and how people will interact with you. Sometimes the risk is too great to deal with criminals, rehabilitated or not, and I would rather not put my family, friends or society at risk. Ok. Then don't transmit this despotical power to the state. You're entitled to your "skeptical" opinion, but the problem is that man continues to be falible, and continues to be a person, wheter you like it or not. The state on the other hand can only judge actions that affects others, the morality of the peson that acts is of little value.


I don’t want serious criminals in any part of my society and the only way to completely remove them is death. Well then who's a serious criminal? How can you proove his seriousness beyond all doubt? What will you do in his position? The state can convict an innocent man (even looking at it from your moral point of view) and charge him with anything and then kill him, look at the power you're giving them. Looking at it from my perspective, you can think what you want, the state doesn't presume (or at least shouldn't) that the person will kill again, or that he's an "evil" person, the state, i repeat, only judge actions, and i hope it continues that way. You only want a return to Mr.Lynch's times.


Can we kill the maniac yet? So he has ceased to be an human and no his title is "maniac". The answer is always, no. You can even take the most horrible case that you want the answer is always no.

[The Stranger]

Hay stranger you keep bringing up this son that I don't even have.



Well What if that man you didn't want killed.....


Moves next door

abducts the kid


sexually assaults him

cuts his fingers off

sets him on fire while he is alive

and when my son is dead throws his body in the river....


Can we kill the maniac yet?


hmmmm...as a state i think its wrong...as a person i think its wrong but if you would kill the man...i would think its wrong but i would understand it...though you must accept the punishment you'd get if you got caught.

but at the same time i would understand if a man would steal a car or food under certain circumstances...its wrong but i can understand...and he too must accept the punishment that stands for it...either death or 24 hours labor...though i still think killing him for that is stupid.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I am going to do something I have never done on this board.......change my mind.

Based on seeing the other side of things I now agree that killing a bread thief is bad...I would still like to see car jackers get at least 30 years. But the prison system can't handle that.


I would like to see longer sentences prison then are given out now though.


(I still want rapist and murderers dead though)

[The Stranger]

yeah...i helped change his mind....~:bow: youre not that bad either ~D

[Soulforged]

I am going to do something I have never done on this board.......change my mind.

Based on seeing the other side of things I now agree that killing a bread thief is bad...I would still like to see car jackers get at least 30 years. But the prison system can't handle that.


I would like to see longer sentences prison then are given out now though.


(I still want rapist and murderers dead though) What if you were those rapist and murderers? What if you were that car jackers? I must remind you that most car jackers don do it intentionally (to use a vulgar word). What if the woman wants to have sex and then acuses the man of rape? What if you wanted to kill an animal in a hunt and a man passed through your way? There's a lot of things to consider, even outside the law dogma.

[Meneldil]

~:confused:


You don't support 'the all scum should be shot' theory ? Come on PJ, I thought you were a fascist, a true one. Not one of these damn socialist whinner ;-)

Surprisingly, I'm now studying penal law, and well, the all 'scums should be shot' crap was not even applied during the dark age. Even the good old frankish law (one of the stupidest law system you'll ever heard of) did not punish all crime by death penalty.

Now, I'm not Louk Hulsman. I agree that there should be harsh harsh crimes should equal to harsh penalties. But death penalty is just too much, just for the fact you can never be sure that someone is guilty.

[Goofball]

I dont see a problem if these goups get the death penalty. And as some have pointed out to me some of these are minor.....So the more I thought of it I came up with a new solution!

Your "solution" is too simplistic and arbitrary (not to mention just plain mean) to work. Here's why:


rapist. die on 1st offense

So we should shoot an 18 year old boy who has consentual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, but is prosecuted for rape because her father flips his lid and calls the cops?


murderers. die on 1st offense

You propose we should execute the housewife who is sick and tired of receiving her usual Saturday night black eye so she finally smashes her husband over the head with a lamp?


burglars. 10 years in jail no parole.....you do it again you die

A couple of things wrong there. First of all, you're mixing up the terms "parole" and "early release." I have no problems with a ten year sentence for burglary with no chance of early release, but parole is meant to monitor convicts after they have served their time in order to help them reintegrate and lessen their chances of reoffending.

Secondly, the fact that you are willing to execute a person because they stole a television set is just sickening. I don't know if you consider yourself to be a Christian or not, but if you do please don't ever try to throw Christian morality around in any future arguments in here, because you don't have a leg to stand on given what you just said.


car jackers. same as burglary

Again, I agree with the long sentence (I might even go twenty years for a car jacking that also involved taking the driver prisoner), but death? No.


assault. depends on what happened

Most sensible thing you said in this post. The punishment should always depend on what happened.


Mugging. same as burglary

My comments with respect to your car jacking proposal apply here as well.

[yesdachi]

I think the nature of each crime needs to be examined before a punishment or even an arrest is made.

A woman killing her husband for beating her is essentially self-defense and shouldn’t even be arrested. I do believe in justifiable homicide, self-defense is definitely justifiable.

Statutory rape (consensual sex with a minor) is waaaayyyy different than a first-degree sexual assault (rape). Still worthy of a punishment but hardly a death punishment.

Kill the rabid dogs :skull: , punish the misguided teens :whip: and help the battered wives :love: .

[scooter_the_shooter]

Your "solution" is too simplistic and arbitrary (not to mention just plain mean) to work. Here's why:



So we should shoot an 18 year old boy who has consentual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, but is prosecuted for rape because her father flips his lid and calls the cops?



You propose we should execute the housewife who is sick and tired of receiving her usual Saturday night black eye so she finally smashes her husband over the head with a lamp?



A couple of things wrong there. First of all, you're mixing up the terms "parole" and "early release." I have no problems with a ten year sentence for burglary with no chance of early release, but parole is meant to monitor convicts after they have served their time in order to help them reintegrate and lessen their chances of reoffending.

Secondly, the fact that you are willing to execute a person because they stole a television set is just sickening. I don't know if you consider yourself to be a Christian or not, but if you do please don't ever try to throw Christian morality around in any future arguments in here, because you don't have a leg to stand on given what you just said.



Again, I agree with the long sentence (I might even go twenty years for a car jacking that also involved taking the driver prisoner), but death? No.



Most sensible thing you said in this post. The punishment should always depend on what happened.



My comments with respect to your car jacking proposal apply here as well.




Goof......didn't you see me repent in this thread yet? Read the post above yours.