Why should I move to YOUR country?

[Divinus Arma]

Why Should I move to your country? (what the heck: or U.S. State, other than California. Worth a shot.)

I plan on retiring sooner or later and have given a bit of thought to moving away from the United States. I love my country and serve her still, but I need something that fits my needs.

I am not turned on by socialist-democracy governments, but I will consider one if the reasons are there.

I have thought quite a bit about New Zealand. My Sister-in-law lived there for about a year on study and she ranted and raved about it. I even contacted the NZ Army to find out about joining them as a career officer. I love the Climate, the cost of living, and the diversity of ecosystems. I also like that there are no illegal immigrants and their *appears* to be little social strife. I don't know much about the government and am pretty much ignorant to social politics.

Aside from NZ, I am pretty much open to many westernized countries.

A few that are certainly out:
Anywhere that it gets well below freezing on a regular basis for long periods.

Now that I think about it... A lot is out.

Here's what I want: Freedom of religion, of the press, of speech, to organize publicly, the basic bill of rights but I dont care so much about gun ownership. Also, temperate climate, as cold as maybe England/Ireland and as no hotter than 125 degrees F. (It gets to be 110 where I am now and I have no problem with that). I would also like my American dollar to go pretty far. I'll be on an American pension from my line of work, so I want the most bang for my buck. (who wouldn't, right?)

I think it also important to mention that I will adapt to the local culture, learn the local language, and adopt national pastimes instead of forcing my culture on you. I am also an educated producer and do not want government handouts.


So why should I move to your country? ~:)

[Soulforged]

When with your dollars and my devalutated economy you'll have a nice life here. A very beautiful place is near the Andes or in Tierra del Fuego.

[Reverend Joe]

I think I will break my own "no-backroom" rule for this one.

I would suggest Provence, in the south of France (but north of the Cote D'Azur). Beautiful country; the Provencale are very friendly; great food, too- a good mix of mediterranean plates. If you hate the country, you will not like Provence- there are very few cities, and a lot of vineyards and lavender fields.

[Divinus Arma]

I think I will break my own "no-backroom" rule for this one.

I would suggest Provence, in the south of France (but north of the Cote D'Azur). Beautiful country; the Provencale are very friendly; great food, too- a good mix of mediterranean plates. If you hate the country, you will not like Provence- there are very few cities, and a lot of vineyards and lavender fields.

I heard the South of France was very expensive. I also heard there is a huge Muslim immigration problem in France.

[Divinus Arma]

When with your dollars and my devalutated economy you'll have a nice life here. A very beautiful place is near the Andes or in Tierra del Fuego.

44.3% is below the poverty line! This compares with about 12% in the U.S.

That is a bit much for me. Poverty tends to bring in more serious problems.

[Soulforged]

44.3% is below the poverty line! This compares with about 12% in the U.S.

That is a bit much for me. Poverty tends to bring in more serious problems.
Oh don't worry DA, in those places i told you, you'll never face any "problems" for the rest of your life, those are elitist places, prepared to any stranger that comes with the greens.

[Papewaio]

New Zealand is a good choice to retire to. It doesn't have many illegal immigrants because they have to get through Australia first.

Australia is pretty nice, I would recommend Perth, it is hot but dry and the beaches are very good. Makes Sydney look dirty by comparison. However if you lived in Perth you have to be the type of person who is active, not the type that needs someone else to make the fun for them.

[Strike For The South]

Cmon man TEXAS is the place hell I suggest my neighborhood (lots of military) or just about ten minutes north get yourself some land, the nature is very nice the ladies are amazing the food is great and there are 3 yes DA 3 lakes where you can get hammered and piss on yourself and trust me its the greatest fun you will ever have

[Incongruous]

Don't come to NZ mate, bad choice at the moment.
Social and political strife abound.
The weather is crap at the moment.
But hey keep watching all that propaganda about our clean, green image.

[Papewaio]

Oh and a quick look at the Big Mac Index (http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4065603) to do a quick look at the countries economies. ~D

[Kanamori]

There is a reason businesses send all of their favorite high-ups and major divisions to Madison ~;)

All of the benefits of a city without all of the problems.

Other than Madison, check out Charleston. Same kind of thing with wonderful old roots and history; Mount Pleasant is quite nice. I'm a fan of North Carolina too. All the lovely flowers everywhere ~:)

[Papewaio]

Don't come to NZ mate, bad choice at the moment.
Social and political strife abound.
The weather is crap at the moment.
But hey keep watching all that propaganda about our clean, green image.

One problem with NZers are they are very parochial.

For good weather live in Northland.

Political and social strife... why what is happening that is so bad in NZ?

Not many countries do I know of that are as green as NZ? So what has happened lately that makes it less green?

BTW Bopa how many other nations have you lived in?

[GoreBag]

The Turks and Caicos. Canadians have been moving there to avoid paying taxes for years. Seriously, they have very little in the way of taxation.

[Divinus Arma]

Cmon man TEXAS is the place hell I suggest my neighborhood (lots of military) or just about ten minutes north get yourself some land, the nature is very nice the ladies are amazing the food is great and there are 3 yes DA 3 lakes where you can get hammered and piss on yourself and trust me its the greatest fun you will ever have

Actually, I have given a lot of thought to Texas. I spent some time training in San Antonio. San Antonio is okay, but Austin is awesome. I love Austin. When you turn 21, go straight to 6th Street. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. That is party central. I got a hotel room and just got bombed this last spring. Me and a bunch of other veterans stood on stage at one place (I was drunk as I could be, swaying back and forth, eyes squinting in the dim light), while the crowd cheered us for serving overseas. Then people bought me more drinks and I was near death. It was great.
I remember stumbling back to my hotel room, on the verge of blackout, when a local cop stopped me. He said "where you goin", I said "to my hotel room" and pointed (err... waved) in the general direction I was going. I was most certainly drunk in public and had no business being on the street. He looked me over with a suspicious eye and said, "well then straighten up a little". I sucked in my gut, stood at attention, , said "yes, Sir" and marched straight to the hotel. Where I passed out in a stupor.

I'm thinking Austin or Northeast Texas, near Dallas or Texarkana. Houses are still affordable in Texas.

[Del Arroyo]

Don't overlook Mexico-- the country is simply filled with gorgeous spots, and of nearly every climatic variation that you could desire. The cost of living for a retiree is quite low even in the places where large numbers of greying ex-pats have gathered.

There is quite a bit of craziness in the big cities, but the barrios of Mexico City aren't any more definitive of the nation as a whole than is Compton of the US as a whole.

Another, less conventional option could-- interestingly-- be Colombia. The cost of living is much lower than in Mexico, the people are friendlier than in Mexico, and if you keep a low profile you would actually be very safe there. They do have some problems with the guerrilla war-- but the risk to a US retiree living outside the hot zones and not driving a brand-new BMW is really pretty close to nil. And the government is rock-solid stable compared to many other Latin American countries.

Did I mention that Colombia is breathtakingly beautiful? There actually are growing numbers of US retirees making their second homes in this out-of-the-mainstream destination, often in smaller cities such as Bucaramanga.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

DA

[Soulforged]

Another, less conventional option could-- interestingly-- be Colombia. The cost of living is much lower than in Mexico, the people are friendlier than in Mexico, and if you keep a low profile you would actually be very safe there. They do have some problems with the guerrilla war-- but the risk to a US retiree living outside the hot zones and not driving a brand-new BMW is really pretty close to nil. And the government is rock-solid stable compared to many other Latin American countries. Are you sure about this? Hell my government is not the german's, but I don't think we're under Colombia, i'm pretty sure about that.


Did I mention that Colombia is breathtakingly beautiful? There actually are growing numbers of US retirees making their second homes in this out-of-the-mainstream destination, often in smaller cities such as Bucaramanga. As I said Tierra del Fuego is one of the most beautiful places in all the world a mix of various other places and auroras from time to time. In any case to live there you must like the cold. ~D

[Shaka_Khan]

New Zealand, Mexico, or Columbia sounds nice. How long can a foreigner stay in those countries? Is it easy to immigrate and gain their nationality? Is it easy to get a decent job there?

[GodsPetMonkey]

Australia is great. What more can I say!

Oh, I'll help you out a little though.



I am not turned on by socialist-democracy governments, but I will consider one if the reasons are there.


It's not what I would consider social-democratic, but it is definitely left of the US government (but none the less conservative).



A few that are certainly out:
Anywhere that it gets well below freezing on a regular basis for long periods.

Australia doesn't do freezing. There is some snow in the mountains, but you right pretty much everywhere else!



Here's what I want: Freedom of religion

Yep


of the press, of speech, to organize publicly,

Not enshrined in anything, but they exist none the less. More in a sec.


the basic bill of rights but I dont care so much about gun ownership.

We don't have a bill of rights, in many ways, we have never needed one. Most of our rights come from the common law (surprising number there) or have been implied in our constitution by the courts (and Americans complain about Judicial Activism).

Gun ownership... well, it's not hard to get a hunting rifle, especially if you have military experience and no criminal record. Just don't think you can bring the AK over with you.
Not that you would need it.



Also, temperate climate, as cold as maybe England/Ireland and as no hotter than 125 degrees F. (It gets to be 110 where I am now and I have no problem with that).

Tasmania is pretty good, gets chilly in the winter but not below 0 (talking C. not F.). SE New South Wales is also fairly mild.
We also have plenty of warm if that is what you after (and we are more famous for it... ahhh, Queensland).


I would also like my American dollar to go pretty far. I'll be on an American pension from my line of work, so I want the most bang for my buck. (who wouldn't, right?)

Exchange rate is about US$0.75 to AU$1.00 (I think). But the relative prices are about the same. Sorry, this is no Mexico.


I think it also important to mention that I will adapt to the local culture, learn the local language, and adopt national pastimes instead of forcing my culture on you. I am also an educated producer and do not want government handouts.

None of those are major differences, we speak the same language, similar (perhaps more easy going, but just as friendly) culture, and if you can drink booze, you will have NO problems with national pastimes.
Please note we take our national day a lot less seriously then you do independence day... actually, most things we take less seriously, except perhaps Anzac day (our veterans day).

Oh yeah, it's also pretty easy for Americans to get a permanent residency visa (if you wish to be an expat) here too.



Australia is pretty nice, I would recommend Perth, it is hot but dry and the beaches are very good. Makes Sydney look dirty by comparison. However if you lived in Perth you have to be the type of person who is active, not the type that needs someone else to make the fun for them.

Perth is a great city, much nicer then Sydney and Melbourne (which I would not recommend living in if you want some peace), but Western Australians are a little different to the rest of us. Brisbane and Adelaide are also rather nice cities, but they are rather warm and dry.

[Divinus Arma]

Good Suggestions. Thank you! Keep 'em coming.

As for Mexico, that is a serious "no way jose". Sorry, but I think that pretty much goes for all of South America. No offense, but I don't want to live in a 3rd world country. I know that sounds elitist. If it does, I'm okay with that. I want to move freely through most of the country and not have to worry about

a. bandits or revolutionaries
b. A government crippled by corruption where I can give a cop 20 dollars and go home.
c. Beggars.

Yep. I am spoiled by the good old US of A. So, France might be okay, NZ sounds good. I am a little worried about Australia simply becasue Australia has like half of all the deadliest animals in the world.
Examples: Eighty percent of Australia's snakes are venomous. Uhm... deadly spiders and insects... Great White Shark infested waters... not to mention Nicole Kidman and Paul Hogan! ~:eek:

Does New Zealand have the same problem with deadly venomous snakes and insects?

[Shaka_Khan]

I have no problem with beggars who don't bother me. It's the bandits or revolutionaries that I have a problem with. From what I have heard, any American, Canadian, European, or wealthy person was threatened by some of them because of their ideology.

[PanzerJaeger]

Austria is amazing.. thats where id go.. but it seems you want a warmer climate. Italy? So much history and culture.. good food too. ~;)

[English assassin]

Come to the lovely south or west or England. The south (I mean the weald of kent, sussex and hampshire) gets the best weather, and is absolutely classic English countryside. The west (eg Herefordshire, Gloucestershire all the way down to Cornwall) also has good weather though a tiny bit more rain, and, hey, if its good enough for King Arthur its good enough for anyone. Also its a fair bit cheaper than the south.

For my money Herefordshire is the nicest part of the whole country, though I still have a soft spot for my old county, Kent. A small town in Herefordshire would be ideal, say Ledbury, http://www.ledburyonline.co.uk/ and its even on a train line to London and Birmingham. My parents live near there now, and everytime I go up there I fall about laughing reading the local paper with its headlines like "Local cat takes third prize in Hereford cat show"

But if you are retired then its worth saying that in the south you have two of the world biggest airports within handy reach, as well as the channel tunnel, so its a good spot for exploring Europe, and indeed the world.

I think England ticks all your boxes except poss the one about your yankee dollars, the exchange rate is not too good right now and you may find anything within say 100 miles of London quite expensive.


I will adapt to the local culture, learn the local language, and adopt national pastimes

So long as you are willing to drink bitter and admit cheerfully that American "football" is no such thing I think you will fit right in.

[Lazul]

q: "So why should I move to your country?"

a: You shouldnt :laugh:

But if you do, we have a stable country with few internal problems. Stupid politicians, anoying religius leaders and about 1 or 2 good tv-channels.
Wonderfull summers, winter is cold as hell, rains alot, wonderfull landscape.

As for the 'muslim immigrant problems', well thats all over Europe.

added: Btw, i live in Sweden ~;)

[Divinus Arma]

I have always been fascinated with England, even if I am confused by the various names (great britain, england, united kingdom, british islands: which is what?). America is her child in a way. I certainly respect the British allaince with America. I have said in other threads that I will die for a Brit in duty as if he were an American.

The cost of living has me concerned. Is a home and a bit of land very expensive? It doesn't need to be too close to a huge population center, but I don't want to drive 5 hours to a market either.

[Idaho]

I have always been fascinated with England, even if I am confused by the various names (great britain, england, united kingdom, british islands: which is what?). America is her child in a way. I certainly respect the British allaince with America. I have said in other threads that I will die for a Brit in duty as if he were an American.

The cost of living has me concerned. Is a home and a bit of land very expensive? It doesn't need to be too close to a huge population center, but I don't want to drive 5 hours to a market either.

Britain is the main island of the British Isles. Great Britain is a geographical term to include Britain plus the small islands immediately next to it. Britain consists of three countries - England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Island is included to make the United Kingdom or Britain and Northern Ireland - aka the UK.

Imagine England is North Carolina
Britain is Mainland USA
Great Britain is Mainland USA including Rhode Island and the Florida Keys
UK is all of the US including Alaska and Hawaii

Calling Britain 'England' is a big no-no when there are Scots and Welsh about. Like calling a Texan a 'yankee'.


I think the biggest problem you are going to have in moving countries is the cultural differences. You sound to me like a dyed in the wool yank!

[English assassin]

If ever you are in doubt, if you simply refer to "Britain" (or if you prefer the UK) you won't upset anyone.

Property in London or within commuting distance of it is probably about as expensive as any on the planet. I can't pretend to be a big expert on property prices in the west country but if you avoid a few hot spots (Bath) I guess its OK. My brother lives out that way in a nice cottage with a big garden and an allotment, and he is a train driver, which is OK money but not big bucks.

Everything is smaller in the UK than you will be used to though. "a big garden" means about 3/4 of an acre, not something the size of Belgium ;-)

[LeftEyeNine]

GAH GAH GAH !

Why Turkey ?

You may have problems with organizing publicly, I mean, it's not "demo everything in democratic terms" yet here. I hope it does not..Anyway..

The coastal towns longing form Aegean to Mditerranean vary from fun-lovers to relax-all-day retired people's top preferences. Bitez, a town around the famous Bodrum, is nearly mostly British. I watched some guy talking about British in real estate agency business there...

Hospitality is a general characteristic assumption claimed about Turkish society. Actually, different people always draw attention, but in a warm way here, as long as you show the warmness too.

I'm residing currently in Izmir, I may welcome you for some stay if you ever land in Turkey.

GAH GAH GAH ! (I won't stop that unless someone tells me the meaning..)

[Ja'chyra]

For a good sized family home in a good area you could expect to pay from £200k up, I have a 3 bed terraced house in an ex-council estate in Hampshire and that costs about £140k.

[Adrian II]

Looks like Spain or France would fit the bill for you. You can buy a derelict Spanish farm for a pocket mirror and a handful of shiny beads, learn to plant tomatoes (because of the neighbourly contacts, this gets you friends in no time) and slowly rebuild the place to your liking. That is what I am going to do between now and twenty years on, I think.

[Sjakihata]

Llearn to plant tomatoes (because of the neighbourly contacts, this gets you friends in no time)

Plus a lot of funds from the EU agriculture support programme.


scandinavia is nice, especially norway sweden - the best nature. and good welfare states = a lot of added bonuses. probably too cold for you, if you cant stand it dropping below 0

[Adrian II]

Plus a lot of funds from the EU agriculture support programme.Oh forget about the subsidies, think of those huge, juicy buggars quashed and spread - in Catalan fashion - on toast with a bit of garlic and olive oil. Or stuffed, straight from the oven. Or ...

*walks off drooling, mumbling to self*

[English assassin]

heh. Do you think people from the south of Europe dream of retiring to Britain or the Netherlands and growing turnips? Could a catalan journalist be wistfully imagining pulling a cabbage from the sodden earth in January...

No, me neither.

[Slyspy]

Don't go to Spain without careful consideration - the local government can. in some areas, screw you over big time and leave you with virtually no property rights.

Britain is probably too pricey for you.

It looks essentially like you are looking for a cheaper US rather than a foreign country! You could try central Europe I suppose (the Czech Republic maybe) but frankly you'd probably be happier in the States by the sounds of it. Probably in a gated community. ~D

New Zealand is a good place to emmigrate to, by all accounts, but I'm sure they have their problems as well.

[Adrian II]

Outdoor brunches in February, kids roaming freely in the hills and valleys, riding horses, village festivities, a swim in six foot Atlantic waves or the turquoise blue of the Med, ahh..

*walks into concrete Amsterdam lamp post*

[el_slapper]

For Europe, if you are annoyed by immigrants, avoid big cities. Smaller ones usually(but check) have far less of them, & more integrated(the lone problem we have with our 200 malians in my town is that the mosque is too small & has a risk for security therefore). In bigger ones, well, things usually doesn't happen that well..... Not that the immigrants are always guilty of everything, but they tend to form independant big groups, that tend to clash with older groups...

[yesdachi]

Your quality of life will drop like a brick if you are not in good health as you reach your golden years. I would choose an area with a progressive medical industry. ~:)

West Michigan is pretty nice. Lots of medicine, blue sky, all 4 seasons and there are many philanthropists driving the recreational side of life ~:cool: . There is a bit of an unemployment issue, as many manufacturing jobs are being sent overseas but if you are retired it wont matter much.

Another thing I would consider are the chances of a natural or un-natural disaster. ~:eek:

[Adrian II]

Spain is among the world's healthiest countries. Spanish women have an average life expectancy of 80, men of 74. Health care and services are excellent and among the best in the EU, except in rural areas where they are spread rather thin and suffer from underinvestment.

¡Olé! :cool4:

[Idaho]

Does no-one see the ridiculousness of a would-be immigrant asking to find a country without other immigrants?

[Adrian II]

Does no-one see the ridiculousness of a would-be immigrant asking to find a country without other immigrants?Does he? Oh sjees, he does. Guess I just missed that post. Divinus Arma, forget Spain, there are far too many immigrants there! Stay clear, leave to place to me!
:stare:

[Ja'chyra]

No he didn't, he just expressed concerns about an area with a high amount of ILLEGAL immigrants, or areas where there are problems because of immigrants which is totally different and completely understandable.

[Adrian II]

No he didn't, he just expressed concerns about an area with a high amount of ILLEGAL immigrants, or areas where there are problems because of immigrants which is totally different and completely understandable.I am sure Spain has illegal immigrants, and to compound the situation they have a socialist government. It just wouldn' t do for a well to do, elderly citizen looking for peace and quiet and subservient locals such as Divinus Arma. What can I say, I will miss him.

[Sjakihata]

Spain has HUGE amounts of illegal immigrants coming from North Africa.

[Adrian II]

Spain has HUGE amounts of illegal immigrants coming from North Africa.Yes, ENORMOUS WAVES of them. They are flooding the countryside, taking over Madrid. I phoned Barcelona yesterday and the guy on the other end said 'Salam aleikum'. It's 732 all over again!
~:eek:

[Ja'chyra]

I am sure Spain has illegal immigrants, and to compound the situation they have a socialist government. It just wouldn' t do for a well to do, elderly citizen looking for peace and quiet and subservient locals such as Divinus Arma. What can I say, I will miss him.

Lol, liked the elderly citizen part ~D Maybe we should be thinking about places that has free bus transport and lots of ramps for his zimmer.

Sorry DA ~:cheers:

I did see a programme about Bulgaria a few months back and it looked quite good, I think me and the wife will retire abroad when the time comes but we've got 30 years to decide.

[Sjakihata]

It's 732 all over again!


funny

[Adrian II]

I did see a programme about Bulgaria a few months back and it looked quite good, I think me and the wife will retire abroad when the time comes but we've got 30 years to decide.Forget it! Bulgaria is still too close to Spain. In 30 years it'll be SWAMPED by illegal immigrants!

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Property in Scotland is generally cheaper than in England or in Wales. I think housing in Northern Ireland may be fairly cheap by these standards too.

NOTE: cheap housing in the U.K. is expensive compared to the USA, you will be astounded at how far your dollar will not go in the U.K. housing market.

[Ironside]

Yes, ENORMOUS WAVES of them. They are flooding the countryside, taking over Madrid. I phoned Barcelona yesterday and the guy on the other end said 'Salam aleikum'. It's 732 all over again!
~:eek:

They was running around in France 732... ~;)

Sweden/scandinavia is quite covered. Can add that all countries here got good economy though.

[Geoffrey S]

I'm still trying to think of reasons to move to Holland. The weather? The chicks? Gedoogbeleid? Probably not the best place to retire to.

Spain's excellent. When I retire, that's where I'd want to go; had plenty of good times around there. Though it's probably rather early to start thinking about retiring when you're 18.

[Idaho]

I'm still trying to think of reasons to move to Holland. The weather? The chicks? Gedoogbeleid? Probably not the best place to retire to.

Spain's excellent. When I retire, that's where I'd want to go; had plenty of good times around there. Though it's probably rather early to start thinking about retiring when you're 18.

Actually only people who are of retirement age should consider the Netherlands. In 30 years it's going to be under the sea.

[Geoffrey S]

Looks like I'll have to invest in a boat, then.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Come to the Isle of Man;

1. 10% tax
2. Me
3. won't be the only Manxman at the org
4. 2 weeks off in june for the TT races...

why wait?

[Sjakihata]

Looks like I'll have to invest in a boat, then.

Or better yet. Buy all boats/ships/barges/etc. Then conduct a smooth, quick, and painless coup d'état. Just hold office for awhile. Then when the flooding begins, issue the following directives: it is illegal to leave Holland. It is illegal to import boats/ships/barges/etc. All offenses will be punished harshly. [insert prefered advertisement, with discounts on YOUR boats/ships/barges/etc at very reasonable prices] (for example only €10,000 for one)

Then celebrate and buy yourself an umbrella.

[Adrian II]

Actually only people who are of retirement age should consider the Netherlands. In 30 years it's going to be under the sea.Exeter, isn't that the home of Met Office, Britain's leading center of globalwarmophobia? They moved there in 2003, I believe. Smack in the middle of the Exe estuary, a location that will be awash with floodwaters in 30 years time if we are to believe the Met Office's own dire predictions. Which I guess we shouldn't, hm? I mean if they locate their main office in the, um, frontline of global warming?
:sunny:


Exeter City flood warnings

All Flood Warnings Are Serious

Do take the following steps as soon as you hear a warning. Don't wait until the situation gets worse before you do anything. The better prepared you are, the better you will cope with the effects of flooding.

Do watch what's happening. Is the weather getting worse? What are other people doing? Should you be doing the same?Do move your car to higher ground.

It only takes two feet of fast flowing water to wash your car away.

Etcetera etcetera... (http://www.exeter.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3143)

[Ronin]

Come to Portugal.....it´s basically Spain without the ETA nutjobs, friendlier people(in my opinion...but i can´t really say the spanish aren´t friendly), and a slower life pace.

[Viking]

Move to Norway, here you get:

-Free hospital visits. Smoke the shit out of yourself and get free treatment for your cancer.

-High taxes. Share, share!

-High gas prices. Keeps your driving to a minimal, good for the enviroment.

Convincing, huh?

[Sjakihata]

plus you got a socialist government willing to spend all those oil fantazillions on improving welfare.

[Dîn-Heru]

plus you got a socialist government willing to spend all those oil fantazillions on improving welfare.

Actually they plan to improve the welfare without dipping into the oil fund iirc...

[GoreBag]

Actually, maybe you should give the Orkneys a try. Plenty of other vikings-by-descent there. Some areas still speak Norwegian.

[Moros]

Well Belgium if you want to live in a country whitout a (real) army, with no real influence in foreign politics (you won't live in a country who starts wars).
But is known for it's Chocolate Beer and french fries (it should be called Belgian Fries ***** *** *****) and drink in public when your older then 16 years and so on and on... ~D

come to belgium Uncle Corneel wants you... ~;)

(ps: we're also known for our lame dutch jokes :p (it's like an England-french or US-Canada thingy))

[Kagemusha]

Divinus i would suggest you go and find your resting place from Eastern Mediterranian islands i would recommend Cretes.By yourself a peachouse, swim and fish in the sea.Eat full but healthy food and flush it down with wine and beer.Dance and laugh with the locals,because they are wery nice and wellcoming people.I dont know about you,but thats where i would like to spend my retirement days.

[LeftEyeNine]

Divinus i would suggest you go and find your resting place from Eastern Mediterranian islands i would recommend Cretes.By yourself a peachouse, swim and fish in the sea.Eat full but healthy food and flush it down with wine and beer.Dance and laugh with the locals,because they are wery nice and wellcoming people.I dont know about you,but thats where i would like to spend my retirement days.

Yeah, blooody right..

Greek or Turk we're all Mediterranean first. I have to add my appreciation for such a recommendation, Divinus.

[Idaho]

Exeter, isn't that the home of Met Office, Britain's leading center of globalwarmophobia? They moved there in 2003, I believe. Smack in the middle of the Exe estuary, a location that will be awash with floodwaters in 30 years time if we are to believe the Met Office's own dire predictions. Which I guess we shouldn't, hm? I mean if they locate their main office in the, um, frontline of global warming?
:sunny:

Naah mate - my house and the Met Office are on a largish hill a couple of miles from the Estuary. Global Warming will just give us a sea view ~:cool:

[Geoffrey S]

Divinus i would suggest you go and find your resting place from Eastern Mediterranian islands i would recommend Cretes.
Thinking about it, also good. I met a couple of older people there who moved over to enjoy the rest of their lives, and they found it a most pleasant place.

[Del Arroyo]

As for Mexico, that is a serious "no way jose". Sorry, but I think that pretty much goes for all of South America. No offense, but I don't want to live in a 3rd world country. I know that sounds elitist. If it does, I'm okay with that. I want to move freely through most of the country and not have to worry about

a. bandits or revolutionaries
b. A government crippled by corruption where I can give a cop 20 dollars and go home.
c. Beggars.

Well, what I'm trying to tell you is that none of these things are realistically going to be a problem for a retiree living in Mexico. I mean, if you want bandits, beggars, and REAL corruption, visit Honduras. Mexico is a different ballgame.

The only really iffy areas in Mexico are going to be certain zones very close to the Guatemalan border and certain cities along the US border (such as Ciudad Juarez). Also large swathes of Mexico City are basically like L.A.'s Compton but without the guns.

I just got back from a year living and working in Guadalajara. I was not nor was anyone I knew a victim of crime, corruption was never a problem, and I saw very few beggars. What bothered me most was the filth of the big city. but in 99% of Mexico, that isn't a problem, either.

If I may speak honestly, I will say that if prices are a real concern for you, you may have to be a bit more open-minded. I'd be willing to wager that most of what you've heard about Mexico et al is 95% false.

..

Anyway, as Ronin said, Portugal may be another option to look at. From what I understand the prices are somewhat lower there than in the rest of Europe, and it is known for being a quiet little country. I'd watch out though-- Spain is supposed to have low prices too, but from what I've heard things are getting as pricey there as in other parts of Europe.

DA

P.S.: If you want to move freely throughout the ENTIRE country worry-free, Colombia is certainly out.

[Kagemusha]

Thinking about it, also good. I met a couple of older people there who moved over to enjoy the rest of their lives, and they found it a most pleasant place.

I also hope to live there someday.That is if i ever live to see my retirement days. ~:)

[Don Corleone]

I might be wrong about all of this, but if DA attempts to relocate to a European country, he'll take a huge tax hit on accumulated wealth (like money in 401K accounts) he attempts to bring in with him.

As a retiree, you're looking for political stability, warmer climate, low crime, lower cost of living and a low tax policy. Beautiful scenery, nice climate, good services etc. would come in the 2nd tier.

Might I suggest Singapore? You can't get more politically stable. The weather is quite warm, but not overpowering. The taxes are reasonable, and you won't be taxed on accumulated wealth you already possess that you bring in, just any new income you earn (though consulting, part-time work or 401K distributions). The scenery is beautiful, it's very clean and crime is practically non-existant. The food is delicious, public services are great, and the women are stunning. The one big drawback is the price and upkeep of an automobile, but you really don't need one.

There is a healthy muslim minority, but the government doesn't tolerate extremism from anybody so you wouldn't have to worry about that sort of thing. Other than the car problem, the only other big issue you'd face is the cost of airfare to come back to US to visit.

Also, be warned, start planning now. The IRS HATES it when financially independent retirees leave, and have a lot of nasty tricks in store for you if you don't work with a financial adviser. It can be very, very, very difficult to get even 50% of your assets out of the country if you don't do it right.

[Del Arroyo]

Might I suggest Singapore?

Pardon my ignorance but I though Singapore was one of the absolute most expensive places on the planet.

And, since I can't edit my posts (darn you nutso moderators!), I will mention a unique plus-side of Mexico here-- it is much easier to visit home from Mexico, if that's something you plan on doing ever.

DA

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Germany is always fun, but the south is better than the north IMO. Austria, especially Salzburg, is nice, and it's only a short distance from the German border.

[Goofball]

Look no further, my friend. Vancouver Island is the place to be:



http://www.bctravel.com/bc-vimap.jpg

We've got this:

http://www.islands.bc.ca/images/memberspics/mtwashingtonboard.jpg

this:

http://www.britishcolumbiafishing.ca/fishing-photos/P7240017.jpg

this:

http://www.fivestarcan.com/s_vib.jpg

and a whole lot more.

The weather is warm, and so are the women.

Come on up and enjoy...

[GoreBag]

It's a trick. It rains like mad in British Columbia.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Come to New Jersey:

All the corruption of a 3rd world country, but with the same exact currency as the US!

All the lovely transplanted Noo Yawkerz - a miracle of higher culture!

Smog so plentiful you don't need cigarettes!

Almost forgot! Property Taxes higher than the combined Scandinavian income taxes! Combined!

---

On the plus side, we've avoided some of the worst of the oil hikes. Doesn't seem as bad as other states. :book:

[Byzantine Prince]

Come to Canada! You can get married to another man, or smoke minimum amount of weed with no criminal reprocutions. It's great!

Also if you decide to come to Alberta, then you can work in the oil fields up north and get filthy rich, like I'm going to be soon. ~:cheers:

[Shaka_Khan]

Check out Puerto Rico (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rq.html) . There is no tax in Puerto Rico, and it's a commonwealth associated with the US.

Or check out UAE (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html). It's a wealthy country thanks to the oil and gas.

http://www.reiseservice-graw.de/burj-al-arab-cool.jpg http://www.arabskeemiraty.com/soubory/top3.jpg

http://www.arabskeemiraty.com/soubory/top2.jpg

http://www.internationalplanners.com/show/graphics/mosque_in_dubai.jpg

http://www.globosapiens.net/data/gallery/ae/pictures/www.globosapiens.net--united-arab-emirates--dubayy--dubai--id=3516.jpg

[Divinus Arma]

Wow. All the suggestions! Thanks folks.

Regarding some of the items mentioned here:

I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration. Living in Southern California, I can see and feel the effects. In my first post, I clearly stated that I would adopt local customs, learn the language, and be an educated productive member of society. This statement is directly reflective of my disgust with illegal immigration. As a potential immigrant myself, I consider it my obligation to ASSIMILATE, rather than force my language and culture on you. I just respect the culture of each country too much to do otherwise. And likewise, if you come here, I would want you to learn english, pursue education, and not take from the government.

I have a close firend who works in a barbershop, making about $4k US per month. She works with an illegal immigrant who makes the same amount but does not pay taxes. This same illegal immigrant has children who were born in the US. She claims to makes less than the poverty level, so she gets a huge monthly welfare check for her kids, as well as food stamps, free medical care, and free education for the kids.

The illegal immigrant is destroying the Southwestern US. There are day laborer pick up spots all over the place, littered with trash, undesirable males loitering around. Many shops are beginning to adopt dual language signs in there stores: spanish/english. And this is becasue they refuse to learn english!

What's worse, becasue they are poverty stricken and uneducated, their kids are born into terrible neighborhoods (all 7 or 8 of the kids) where they join gangs and plague the educational system. My sister in law is a teacher and she tells us all the time how the dirt-birth babies are destroying the educational system. She has to spend half her time with english-second-language students and the real citizen children get screwed. The urban schools all suck becasue no teacher wants to work there with the crime and ESL students. So the good teachers leave and the crap teachers stay, which only makes the problem worse!

Granted, if I lived in Mexico, I would want to get the hell out too. I have plenty of respect for those that would risk their lives for a better life. But we simply cannot afford to absorb them without turning our country into the same slumhole that Mexico is.

And Del Arroyo, my respect to you. :bow: You are obviously a capable, intelligent, and educated individual and I appreciate your individual efforts and ability. :bow:
I could never move to Mexico however, because of the impression that the illegal immigrants have given me. I am disgusted with Mexico. I virtually loathe it. I would rather live in Moscow, Finland, Greenland, Alaska, New York, New Jersey, anywhere ANYWHERE but Mexico. I would rather live in a socialist, homosexual, liberal, anti-American European country than Mexico. I would rather live in a tiny one room craphole in the middle of nowhere in North Dakota than spend more than a layover in Mexico.

I wish, more than I can express words, that Mexico would be the same standard of government and economy as a modern Western Nation. Then, and only then, would I even consider this. When Mexico is like Spain, or France, or England, or Denmark, or the US, or Canada, or Germany: THEN I would consider it. When 2 million people a year stop swimming the rio grande, packing into semi trucks, and backpacking across the mountains to take our jobs in manufacturing, construction, agriculture, services, and retail: THEN I may consider it.

No my friend. No Mexico for me.


Sorry. I kind of went off the deep end there for a minute.

[Del Arroyo]

Well geez, Divinus Arma, I bet that if we picked some random country-- say, Germany-- and started emptying out all of our ghettos and trailerparks and sending the people there, the Germans would probably start feeling pretty much the same way about us, if that was the only information they had on Americans.

Trust me, mainstream Mexicans aren't so crazy about the people you're describing either. But your venom is one-sided-- where is your disgust for the greedy capitalists who seek out these workers? The shallow, pretentious consumerist whores who generate an ever-increasing demand for their labor? And where is your disgust for an entire generation of youth who would rather sit around playing video games than get their hands dirty and earn a buck?

This thing works both ways. Mexico could probably manage to deal with all of its massed poor internally, but the US is right next door and that's where the jobs are at. The US could almost certainly figure out how to deal with its labor shortage WITHOUT such massive immigration, but Mexico is right next door, and that's where the workers are at.

And what about the things that US Citizens are doing to Mexico?? Do you think that Mexican society as a whole is thrilled with millions of drunk, drugged gringo partiers running around the country, flouting all standards of common decency, spreading venereal disease, and corrupting local values??

And what about the Mexicans who go to the US and come back? What effect do you think they might be having on traditional social values?? And what about LA gang culture?? That's something that WE, the US of A invented, and we are inflicting it on them each time one of those little snitheads gets deported or returns for other reasons.

I mean, get real, buddy.

..

Yet despite all the messy things that are going on, there are still an awful lot of great people and an awful lot of great places, in BOTH countries.

Based on what you said in the previous post, Divinus Arma, I have decided that you absolutely MUST visit Mexico, at least for a vacation, and see the REAL Mexico for yourself. There are many there who judge Americans solely on what they've seen of spring-breakers and-- I'm guessing this will blow your mind-- say they're certain they'd never even want to visit the USA. On your visit to Mexico you may find much more that surprises you.

Let me know when you plan to take this trip so I can advise you on where to go. :bow:

DA

[GodsPetMonkey]

I am a little worried about Australia simply becasue Australia has like half of all the deadliest animals in the world.
Examples: Eighty percent of Australia's snakes are venomous. Uhm... deadly spiders and insects... Great White Shark infested waters... not to mention Nicole Kidman and Paul Hogan! ~:eek:

Wow really? I did not know that...
I once had a 3m carpet python living in my house (non-venomous if you don't know). Didn't see any signs of vermin for months! (I lived in a house built in 1912, loads of crawl space).

But really, as long as you’re not silly enough to stick your willie into a hollow log is western Queensland your fine... the vast majority of dangerous reptiles live away from people (snakes tend to be west of the main cities, all coastal, and crocs to far north). As for Great Whites, well, they tend to stick to far off shore to be a threat to anyone, and we have the best surf life savers in the world, as soon as there is any sign of a shark on a patrolled beach everyone is warned.

Besides, Australia is a big place, you can find areas with less dangerous animals, but with the most venomous sake (western taipan) and spider (funnel-web, very deadly to primates), I can understand your apprehension. As long as you don't invite disaster, the animals will leave you well alone. Deaths from these animals are incredibly rare (in fact I believe that the funnel-web has not claimed a life since an anti-venom was developed).

We keep Paul Hogan in a cage and Nicole overseas ~;)

[Brutus]

Actually only people who are of retirement age should consider the Netherlands. In 30 years it's going to be under the sea.
Man, that would be brilliant! My mother's house at the edge of the sea level border would then become a house right at the beach instead of 2 hours away from it! And as in 30 years the mediterrenean will be too hot in summer, we will have an excellent climate!

Free beach house, here I come! :beam:

[yesdachi]

Sorry. I kind of went off the deep end there for a minute.
That was one of the most entertaining “off the deep ends” I have read in some time! ~:cheers:

[BDC]

Not Britain. It's too wet.

[Divinus Arma]

Well geez, Divinus Arma, I bet that if we picked some random country-- say, Germany-- and started emptying out all of our ghettos and trailerparks and sending the people there, the Germans would probably start feeling pretty much the same way about us, if that was the only information they had on Americans.

Trust me, mainstream Mexicans aren't so crazy about the people you're describing either. But your venom is one-sided-- where is your disgust for the greedy capitalists who seek out these workers? The shallow, pretentious consumerist whores who generate an ever-increasing demand for their labor? And where is your disgust for an entire generation of youth who would rather sit around playing video games than get their hands dirty and earn a buck?

This thing works both ways. Mexico could probably manage to deal with all of its massed poor internally, but the US is right next door and that's where the jobs are at. The US could almost certainly figure out how to deal with its labor shortage WITHOUT such massive immigration, but Mexico is right next door, and that's where the workers are at.

And what about the things that US Citizens are doing to Mexico?? Do you think that Mexican society as a whole is thrilled with millions of drunk, drugged gringo partiers running around the country, flouting all standards of common decency, spreading venereal disease, and corrupting local values??

And what about the Mexicans who go to the US and come back? What effect do you think they might be having on traditional social values?? And what about LA gang culture?? That's something that WE, the US of A invented, and we are inflicting it on them each time one of those little snitheads gets deported or returns for other reasons.

I mean, get real, buddy.

..

Yet despite all the messy things that are going on, there are still an awful lot of great people and an awful lot of great places, in BOTH countries.

Based on what you said in the previous post, Divinus Arma, I have decided that you absolutely MUST visit Mexico, at least for a vacation, and see the REAL Mexico for yourself. There are many there who judge Americans solely on what they've seen of spring-breakers and-- I'm guessing this will blow your mind-- say they're certain they'd never even want to visit the USA. On your visit to Mexico you may find much more that surprises you.

Let me know when you plan to take this trip so I can advise you on where to go. :bow:

DA


Well DA, I agree with everything that you wrote. The capitalist whores who employ these people are just as guilty. I hate them all equally: Republicans and Democrats alike. As for the American Drunks in Mexico, you may as well scream at the bar that feed them alcohol. It's the same argument, my friend. I've only been to TJ and I have heard that much of the country is nice. Except for my in-laws who were robbed in Baja. And my Dad who drank the water during a scuba-diving trip and developed a permanent intestinal problem after getting deathly ill. And my relaitves going to Mexico city: the most polluted city in the entire world. And my sister-in-law's old illegal immigrant chef boyfriend who witnessed a murder in Mexico City. And my other relatives who went to Cancun but were terrified to leave the resort. And those retirees that purchase land in Mexico that was all stolen by the Mexico Federal Police with no compensation.

Ya. I'd rather eat my own feces, drink my own blood, and cut off my left hand than move to Mexico. Good times!

As for Gang culture, you should do a little research.

But you still have my respect. :bow:

[Incongruous]

Ok my rant is over. It's just that after living in NZ for five years under Helen Clarke things get you man. About the social strife, dude, you need to live here to feel it, in the street a few blocks away some Maori extremist started putting up "Anti-Pakeha" billboards, trust me race relation in NZ have reached boiling point and now that the New Right has gained strength poloticians are only going to make it worse. As for the Greeny Cleant image there have been quite a few docos about it and all that you find out is negative.
But there are so many more posotives than negatives, hey I mean you only need to watch LOTR to see it, the weather is good (not great) and you should live in Wellington, the capital and the best. Away from all those JAFA's, just be pre-pared for the power of the anti-nuclear stance in all its great greeny glory, its actually a very good stance in my opinion and we very rarely get power shortages.
Then theres the Rugby, Super 14 and NPC you'l love them both soon enough trust me. ~:cheers:
So by all means come to NZ, I reckon it's great, better than LA, LONDON (Well actually I like London better but I am a Londoner) and Aukland ( I prefer to keep Aukland seperate from the rest of us normal kiwis) ~D

[Papewaio]

JAFAs?

Howabout Northland and the Bay of Islands?

[Divinus Arma]

Ok my rant is over. It's just that after living in NZ for five years under Helen Clarke things get you man. About the social strife, dude, you need to live here to feel it, in the street a few blocks away some Maori extremist started putting up "Anti-Pakeha" billboards, trust me race relation in NZ have reached boiling point and now that the New Right has gained strength poloticians are only going to make it worse. As for the Greeny Cleant image there have been quite a few docos about it and all that you find out is negative.
But there are so many more posotives than negatives, hey I mean you only need to watch LOTR to see it, the weather is good (not great) and you should live in Wellington, the capital and the best. Away from all those JAFA's, just be pre-pared for the power of the anti-nuclear stance in all its great greeny glory, its actually a very good stance in my opinion and we very rarely get power shortages.
Then theres the Rugby, Super 14 and NPC you'l love them both soon enough trust me. ~:cheers:
So by all means come to NZ, I reckon it's great, better than LA, LONDON (Well actually I like London better but I am a Londoner) and Aukland ( I prefer to keep Aukland seperate from the rest of us normal kiwis) ~D

Okay! I really am biased towards NZ. So the major social strifr\e is between whites and indingesous Maoiri? Is that right?

I mat retire in , well, 13 years, if I stay in the military. 13 Years goes fast!!!!! Crap the lasy t seven have gone by in a blink!

Anyway. I expect a 3k a month pension and medical paid for. My understanding is that the US dollar goes twice as far in NZ. Also, I understand that I need a sposor in order to emigrate.

I will have chioldren with me. I want good schooling for them. More than anyhting I want a "home" feeling to my country. I love the US, but something is different here. There is an air in the US that I cannot describe. Imperialist? I don't know. I will do my duty and be done with it. I wish to leave the US and the path it pursues after I am done defending her.

[Incongruous]

Aye, the recent conflict has broken out mainlt due to peace settlements which I personally hate due to my uncles shop being forcefull bought in order to hand it over to the so-called "native" Maori (there are conflicts on this due to the fact that there was another people her befor ethe Maori, the Moriori's whom the Maori ate and completely wiped out save a few hundred who are now seeking the title of indigeonous people). Also polotics here at the moment are a mess due to Labour's misshandling of the state under Clarke.

Education here varies, as long as you don't send your kids to low rate school in a low rate area it will be fine, other than NCEA which is a complete balls-up but by the time you get here I'm sure it will be fine. As for getting in, I think you can get in no problem so long as you have 1 million dollars NZ.
But come to Wellington, it's the best! ~:cheers:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Bopa,

I'd totally forgotten about the pre-Maori people.
Would you be willing to start a thread about it to refresh my memory?

[Papewaio]

Aye, the recent conflict has broken out mainlt due to peace settlements which I personally hate due to my uncles shop being forcefull bought in order to hand it over to the so-called "native" Maori (there are conflicts on this due to the fact that there was another people her befor ethe Maori, the Moriori's whom the Maori ate and completely wiped out save a few hundred who are now seeking the title of indigeonous people).


The Waitangi Treaty was made between the Crown and the Maori people, otherwise in all probability it would be French New Zealand...

As for the Moa Hunters that is indeed worthy of another thread.

[kiwitt]

Come to New Zealand (http://www.newzealand.com/) ... a little propaganda he. he.

As to some Cities: Here are some city comparisons, albeit on a smaller scale in NZ
Auckland = Los Angeles (Sprawl, traffic)
Wellington = Chicago (windy)

[Bulawayo]

I have seen this site before. Does anyone from New Zealand think that it has any good and relevant information?

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/

[Incongruous]

The Waitangi peace settlement was made when Britain already had dominance over NZ. It has now become a burden upon non-maori Kiwis, its racist and unfair.

As for Wellington, you cannot compare any city in the U.S to it, its a major city surrounded by forested hills, mountains and valleys.

That Celtin NZ thing is pap, but there is a maori story that in the south island the Maori had to fight a white skinned red haired demon tribe who lived in caves not Pa's, these caves can be seen today but the story has no credibility other than being rather old.

[Papewaio]

The Waitangi peace settlement was made when Britain already had dominance over NZ.
Untrue, at the time Britain was even sure they wanted NZ as the cost of colonialism was showing to be a burden. However the locals who were of British decent along with representatives of the Crown put forth to the Maori the Treaty of Waitangi in which the Maori people and the Pakehas together would form NZ. The Maori would keep certain lands, hunting and fishing rights, while in return they would become loyal subjects to the Crown.

The Maori fulfilled their side of the bargin hansomely. Even so oppourtunistic Pakeha broke The Treaty of Waitangi and stole land that wasn't rightfully theirs. The Crown stepped in on several occassions and on the whole the British sided with the Maori over the local Pakeha.



It has now become a burden upon non-maori Kiwis, its racist and unfair.
Keeping a contract to someone is neither racist nor unfair. Breaking it based on their race however is both racist and unfair.



As for Wellington, you cannot compare any city in the U.S to it, its a major city surrounded by forested hills, mountains and valleys.

Kansas City, any where in the North of America that is both cold, windy and has a decidely British bent... so you may have to go to Vancouver.

[Incongruous]

No actually it is unfair, when one of your family members has lost everything they have worked on for the past twenty years to some ethnic group claiming to be indigeonous then perhaps I might consider debating it with you.

[Papewaio]

Twenty years versus 200?

I agree that the application of the Waitiangi treaty can be upsetting, it is more upsetting that it wasn't enforced more throughly in the first place.

Oh and a lot of Kiwis lost a lot of land in the late eighties when New Zealands economy went south. Plenty of farmers lost properties that they had owned for generations to economic forces.

[Incongruous]

I don't care much, as I said the Treaty is divisive and unfair. It would be like an aboriginee coming to your house and saying "sorry mate but this used to be my peoples land so now we are re-climing it.
Whats worse about the Treaty settlement is that ordinary Maori get nothing from it.

[Papewaio]

There is no treaty in Australia. Native Title allows aborogines access to land to use for ceremonies and hunting. It does not give grazing or mineral rights. It can impact on Federal construction.

If the ordinary Maori get nothing is that the fault of the Treaty or the Tribunal?

[Incongruous]

Oh I see, you believe the Law makes right?
Look I am going to have to stop here before I get really angry, so I will tell you this come and live in NZ and soak up the tension by talking to "Pakeha" and what they think about the treaty then come back and talk about it.

[Papewaio]

I am descended from some of the first missionaries to New Zealand and on most branches of the family go back at least five generations. I grew up in Northland and have plenty of family in NZ. When one of my Pakeha ancestors who was a missionaries son got threatened by Whalers, 300 Maori Warriors turned up and did a Haka, and it wasn't for a Rugby match.

I have saluted the flag at the Waitangi Day celebrations.
Oh and my grandmother used to work at the Waitangi Treaty House.

So in short you are pawned. :bow:

[Shaka_Khan]

New Zealand ranks high in the Growth Competitiveness Index rankings.
She is right below Germany and right above South Korea.

Full Rankings (http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Growth+Competitiveness+Index+rankings+2005+and+2004+comparisons)

[Rob The Bastard]

Meaning of JAFA

Just Another F Aucklander

The word was coined by New Zealanders living outside Auckland as an insult because of the perceived faults of Auckland and Aucklanders. Auckland is seen to dominate over other New Zealand cities as it has by far the biggest city economy and population. Perversely it is also perceived to be a drain on the national economy and tax-take, particularly because of the costs involved in attempting to alleviate its traffic congestion. Aucklanders are supposed to hold an arrogant attitude towards non-Aucklanders such that they think nothing worthwhile exists south of the Bombay Hills, the southern border of the Auckland region. The popular saying "New Zealand stops at the Bombay Hills" thus has equal but opposite meanings for those on both sides of the hills.

Auckland is also despised by people from smaller cities and rural areas who consider many of its residents to lead a yuppie lifestyle. Dislike of Auckland intensified in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the Auckland provincial rugby union team dominated the National Provincial Championship of New Zealand s national sport and held the prestigious Ranfurly Shield trophy for a record 61 successful defenses over 8 years. Attitudes of some prominent Aucklanders towards the rest of the country, notably those of former mayor John Banks, have done little to alleviate the situation.

While many non-Aucklanders use the word Jafa as a light-hearted insult, the strength of dislike tends to increase in Canterbury and other southern parts of New Zealand. A much published photograph taken in the late 20th century shows a young boy at a rugby match in Christchurch holding a sign reading simply "I hate Auckland". An advertisement for a local beer, which appeared on billboards in Wellington, featured the following sarcastic remark: "LET'S GO TO AUCKLAND FOR THE HOLIDAYS. YEAH, RIGHT."

Aucklanders have robbed the word of its sting by enthusiastically embracing it as a nickname. In 1999 the Tourism Auckland organization launched a "Jafa" advertising campaign. While Aucklanders initially adopted the word ironically, the New Zealand Herald, Auckland s daily newspaper, sometimes now uses Jafa as a nickname for Aucklanders without any hint of irony.

Taken from URL=http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Jafa

[Rob The Bastard]

Here is a site that I was told about just the other day...

http://www.zealand.org.nz/ The "Radical" history is largely unsubstantiated but I found many parts of the site to be interesting.