Something off with the roman factions

[Magraev]

Hi all

I modded a game last week with me as the Brutii (Mundus Magma). The other romans were only allowed to build city watch, velites, cav. auxilia and light auxilia.

I figured I'd be busy protecting my fellows and looked forward to that.

Only problem is, the Julii are still beating the gauls and the Scipii are still beating the carthagenians! Not quite as fast but still... At around 230 the Julii have secured the area south of the alps and the scipii have Sicily and the city just south of carthage. The armies are 90% velites and 10% cav. auxilia.

How can this be? Is the game skewed so bad in the romans favor??

[Magussen]

I wish I knew how exactly the game is rigged in favor of the Romans.
It annoys me immensely.

[Magraev]

I wish I knew how exactly the game is rigged in favor of the Romans.
It annoys me immensely.

Me too, and it seems nothing I do can change it. In the same game I (Brutii) made an early alliance with Macedon (as did the senate), and they've used the respite to grow hugely to the north, eating Thrace and Dacia in the process.

So the AI can prosper - just not against Rome. grr. :furious3:

[PseRamesses]

I wish I knew how exactly the game is rigged in favor of the Romans. It annoys me immensely.
Agree. Last night I did a test as the Punies. I took Hanno on Sicily and secured the Island and invaded the Italian peninsula. I conquered Rhegium, Paestum and Corfinium which I gave to my new allies the Greeks. I sacked all roman provinces and handed them over to the Gauls. The Romans are down to just one family member and 2 hastati, 1 velite and 1 triarii and only holding Roma. They agreed on a peacetreay but still refused the protect. status (hmm, that´s another feat. that never can be overdebatable). So the Gauls completely surrounds Roma with Greece holding the 5 southern ones. I, Gaul and Greece are allies. I depart with my now aging Hanno to intercept a Ptolemaic incursion in Trip.Sup. After some 5 years of campaigning against them and taking all of their islands I get a peacedeal and return with some spies to monitor the "Roman situation". What the h_ll???!!! They have taken 3 provs from Greece and 5 from the Gauls... in just 5 years, and starting off with just 4 units???? This is seriously undermining this game, don´t you agree?

[Magraev]

That sounds absolutely absurd!

Maybe the autocalc is way off on the roman units strength? ~:confused:

There is some mojo going on for sure...

[Ciaran]

Strange, even if I play against the Romans, they´re not that much expanding. I once played with the Seleucids (the stock game, however) and when I finally reached them they still hadn´t moved much from their initial positions. So, judging from my experience, the game isn´t quite rigged in favor of Roman factions as well. Truth be told, I found the Romans to be the easiest enemy so far.

[Garvanko]

I wish I knew how exactly the game is rigged in favor of the Romans.
It annoys me immensely.
Why? It makes for a decent challenge, IMHO.

[professorspatula]

Agree. Last night I did a test as the Punies. I took Hanno on Sicily and secured the Island and invaded the Italian peninsula. I conquered Rhegium, Paestum and Corfinium which I gave to my new allies the Greeks. I sacked all roman provinces and handed them over to the Gauls. The Romans are down to just one family member and 2 hastati, 1 velite and 1 triarii and only holding Roma. They agreed on a peacetreay but still refused the protect. status (hmm, that´s another feat. that never can be overdebatable). So the Gauls completely surrounds Roma with Greece holding the 5 southern ones. I, Gaul and Greece are allies. I depart with my now aging Hanno to intercept a Ptolemaic incursion in Trip.Sup. After some 5 years of campaigning against them and taking all of their islands I get a peacedeal and return with some spies to monitor the "Roman situation". What the h_ll???!!! They have taken 3 provs from Greece and 5 from the Gauls... in just 5 years, and starting off with just 4 units???? This is seriously undermining this game, don´t you agree?

I imagine the settlements rebelled and became Roman again. Allies are rubbish at keeping hold of gifted cities, and if the cities that rebelled still had a majority of Roman culture influence, the rebellion will be loyal to the Romans. That's perhaps how they got their empire back. Perhaps a bit of divine intervention helped them also.

[Magussen]

Seriously, the Romans are never invaded, in the dozens of campaigns I played only one settlement has ever been (re)taken from them by the AI.
I also noticed that the AI is slightly more agressive VS Romans if you play a roman faction.
Revolts also seem not to occur as often as they should in roman settlements, regardless of the sabotage and spying.
Romans also play more efficiently on the strategy map, building forces and relentlessly going on conquering other factions who are more prone to unconclusive warfare.
The non-roman AI factions very often play strategically as if they wanted to help roman imperialism, turning on powerful allies instead of taking advantage of a crippled defenceless roman faction.
Ships carrying roman troops very often cross the seas under the nose of superior naval forces.
I could give more examples of suspicious circumstances all in favour of those damned romans.
Regarding the greater challenge, I do not feel challenged at all, I routinely crush the Romans, I just feel frustration when I see illogical situations on the map.

[Magraev]

I agree completely. The AI doesn't seem to want to fight the Romans (except when they're me).

I'm going to mod a new game, where rome can build nothing but peasants!

[PseRamesses]

I imagine the settlements rebelled and became Roman again. Allies are rubbish at keeping hold of gifted cities, and if the cities that rebelled still had a majority of Roman culture influence, the rebellion will be loyal to the Romans. That's perhaps how they got their empire back. Perhaps a bit of divine intervention helped them also.
I´m playing RTR 6.0 so civil revolts are gone, riots yes but revolts no. When I gave the cities to my allies I made shure I stayed around to actually see them move garrisons into them and I raised all destructable buildings too. So the only way the Romans could´ve taken them back is by war. The math doesn´t add up on this one: 4 units (to start with) take 8 settlements in 5 years (10 turns)!!!??? The AI cheats, it´s that simple, especially with the Romans.

[econ21]

The AI cheats, it´s that simple, especially with the Romans.

If that is true, I wonder if modders have encountered the problem? e.g. when they unify the Roman factions and play around with the vacated faction slots?

[PseRamesses]

If that is true, I wonder if modders have encountered the problem? e.g. when they unify the Roman factions and play around with the vacated faction slots?
In RTR 6 the game slots that were Romans, now other factions, doesn´t behave like this so it defenitely have something to do with the Roman unit vs others.

[econ21]

In RTR 6 the game slots that were Romans, now other factions, doesn´t behave like this so it defenitely have something to do with the Roman unit vs others.

But unit attributes are all available for editing in a text file. There must be some flag that a unit is "Roman" (whether faction name, culture etc). If the AI cheats so as to favour units flagged in that way, it should be easy to test.

[Magraev]

Make a unit (like the silver shields) that is absolutely identical to a roman unit and let them duke it out! Good idea.

There may also be issues with ai scripts etc. that might make the romans use their ressources better?

[Kraxis]

Make a unit (like the silver shields) that is absolutely identical to a roman unit and let them duke it out! Good idea.

There may also be issues with ai scripts etc. that might make the romans use their ressources better?
Auto-calc... We have tested enough what happens in normal fights. They are equal enough.

[Magraev]

Hmm then that's not it (seemed a bit silly too).

How do you explain that the romans can beat Carhage and Gaul with nothing But velites then??

~:confused:

[Kraxis]

Hmm then that's not it (seemed a bit silly too).

How do you explain that the romans can beat Carhage and Gaul with nothing But velites then??

~:confused:
Auto-calc (the way the AI fight with itself)... Chariots are way stronger than they should be in auto-calc for instance. Perhaps the Roman factions have some bonus or whatnot.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

i've seen the same thing, when i fought rome as carthage i trounced rome and took all of italy, their legions just crumbled, but no matter how many regions i took from them, they had more, i finally destroyed the romans somewhere in russia!
however in RTR 5.4 they are really slow expanding, they basically just take italy and very slowly start nicking a few provinces from gaul, ignoring carthage completely

[A.Saturnus]

You may notice that the Senat is despite having only Rome often a very rich faction. It seems to me that it sponsors AI-Roman factions. They often appear wealthier than they should be.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

maybee, but there is still a senate in RTR 5.4 and the romans don't do too well in that even though they have most of italy