View Full Version : Your favourite early 16th-century monarch
Hi,
I am currently starting my history thesis on diplomats from the Netherlands to England during the rule of the Emperor Charles V, and whilst reading some of the literature I once again found that the first half of the 16th century sees some of the most colourfull (and especially loony ~;) ) "monarchs" ever all at the same time. Therefore I wondered: Who's your favourite and why?
AntiochusIII
09-19-2005, 22:38
Emperor Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire.
"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men and German to my horse."
A man who spent his life fighting the French (Francis I, lifelong enemy), Ottomans (under no other than Suleiman the Magnificent), Germans (those Protestant princes), even the Italians (sometimes...) and the Pope (once, sacked Rome); whose empire includes many important parts of Europe.
Among the greatest of the Hapsburg family.
But yes, the time was the height of monarchy-in-action.
The other time for interesting monarchs would be around the Third Crusade. Barbarossa, Saladin, Philip Augustus, Henry II and Richard the Lionheart...
Mouzafphaerre
09-20-2005, 01:26
.
Resisting the temptation of GAH I voted other, in mind being Sultan Selim I, father of Suleyman -the so called magnifique-.
.
Emperor Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire.
"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men and German to my horse."
A man who spent his life fighting the French (Francis I, lifelong enemy), Ottomans (under no other than Suleiman the Magnificent), Germans (those Protestant princes), even the Italians (sometimes...) and the Pope (once, sacked Rome); whose empire includes many important parts of Europe.
Among the greatest of the Hapsburg family.
But yes, the time was the height of monarchy-in-action.
The other time for interesting monarchs would be around the Third Crusade. Barbarossa, Saladin, Philip Augustus, Henry II and Richard the Lionheart...
Indeed. Point is, Charles actually failed in all the goals he had set himself in life:
-Keeping the peace: he fought wars for more than half the years of his reign.
-Keeping the unity of the church: Mainly by his conduct (and that of the pope) the protestants proved inreconcilible with Rome.
-Keeping his lands together in one united inherentance: His lands were divided between his son and his brother.
Because of this (and his bad physical health) he displayed signs of a severe depression most of the time, so he resigned in 1555/'56 instead of ruling to his death like most monarchs did back then.
However, I personally have to say Henry was most likely the most potty of all. I mean, after beheading his second wife the guy went completely berserk; executing more and more people within his direct vicinty... :help:
Mouzafphaerre
09-20-2005, 14:02
.
Brutus, I loved your signature mate! :joker:
:medievalcheers:
.
LeftEyeNine
09-20-2005, 14:30
I can agree with Mouzafphaerre here..
Here is a brief description of what I. Selim did (Yavuz Sultan Selim is the common Turkish name for him. Yavuz = Stern, Ferocious, Grim..Pick your favorite.. )
-Three major battles won : Chaldiran (against Persian Turkish Safevis), Merdjidabik and Ridaniye (both against Mamelukes)
-Ottoman reign expanded by triple.
-The Caliphate passed over to Ottomans from Abbasids.
It's a true period of geographical, religious and political power burst.
P.S. Yeah, Brutus has one of the smartest sigs out there ~:cheers:
Knight Templar
09-20-2005, 16:55
-The Caliphate passed over to Ottomans from Abbasids.
Wasn't the last Abbaside killed in 1258 ?
Anyway, I voted for Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent, probably the greatest sultan in Ottoman history. He conquered large new territories, made many important reforms (Turkish called him Kanuni- legislator). His reign means greatest time for Ottomans, and with his death The Ottoman Empire slowly starts to weaken.
Adrian II
09-20-2005, 17:19
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmonarchs/ivan4/ivan4_images/ivan4_sidebar.jpg
LeftEyeNine
09-20-2005, 17:45
Wasn't the last Abbaside killed in 1258 ?
Anyway, I voted for Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent, probably the greatest sultan in Ottoman history. He conquered large new territories, made many important reforms (Turkish called him Kanuni- legislator). His reign means greatest time for Ottomans, and with his death The Ottoman Empire slowly starts to weaken.
After the conquest of Egypt (following victory of Ridaniye battle), shareef of Mecca sent his son to Ottomans indicating his loyalty. The Holy Relics and the keys of Mecca and Medina were delivered to Padishah in 1517.
With the Holy Relics, Selim I returned to Istanbul. Later on he ordered the Caliphate Mutevekkil III to come to Istanbul. That's how the Caliphate passed over to Ottomans.
Adrian II,
is that Ivan the Terrible?
LeftEyeNine
09-20-2005, 18:14
Yes it is..
Right click - save the pic. You see the upload name of the pic.
Thanks for the compliment, Mouzafphaerre & LeftEyeNine :bow:
Ivan the Terrible! Good one! I completely forgot about the Russians... :embarassed:
Well, so far so good, it seems that Suleyman is winning right now, but Henry is a good runner-up. Strangly enough nobody voted for Christian II, the Tyrant, also, francis I hasn't got any votes (yet?)
AntiochusIII
09-20-2005, 22:42
Well, so far so good, it seems that Suleyman is winning right now, but Henry is a good runner-up. Strangly enough nobody voted for Christian II, the Tyrant, also, francis I hasn't got any votes (yet?)Francis was quite a loser, you know, in the wars...
But his determination should be appreciated. What a persistent guy.
Charles V I say is my favourite still. This isn't the "greatest" thread, is it? If greatest then Suleyman or Ivan the Terrible would've been the ideal choices. But favourite for me is Charles. At least he has determination to hold such a large, spread out, and rebellious empire together as intact as he did.
PanzerJaeger
09-20-2005, 22:51
Didnt Charles V have rooms full of papers proving the ownership of lands all across Europe?
didn't charlie start out by simply being the heir to a minor dukedom? then due to dynastic links and deaths of relatives kept on inheriting more and more?
AntiochusIII
09-20-2005, 23:49
didn't charlie start out by simply being the heir to a minor dukedom? then due to dynastic links and deaths of relatives kept on inheriting more and more?Quite right. That's a Hapsburg alright. It's only like around 1550 or something that he actually took the throne of Spain for himself, though he controlled it long before.
Quite right. That's a Hapsburg alright. It's only like around 1550 or something that he actually took the throne of Spain for himself, though he controlled it long before.
Well, problem was, although his father (Philip the Fair) died in 1506, Charles' mother, Juana of Castille (also known as the Insane) lived on until 1555 (3 years before Charles' own death and only a few months before he abdicated). She was quite mad and locked away in a castle in Tordesillas, I believe, but as long as she lived Charles was only co-king of the Spanish kingdoms. He had however already been to Spain several times claiming the lands as his, though.
This isn't the "greatest" thread, is it?
Nope, certainly not. Debating who was the greatest would prove to be inconclusive and counterproductive, I think. I just want to know who's anyone's favourite.
didn't charlie start out by simply being the heir to a minor dukedom? then due to dynastic links and deaths of relatives kept on inheriting more and more?
If I'm correct, Charles' long list of hereditary titles was something like this (by the end of his life):
Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, semper augustus, King of Spain(meaning Leon, Castille, Aragon and Valencia, to name a few), Sicily, Jerusalem, the Balearic Islands, the Canary Islands, the Indies and the mainland on the far shore of the Atlantic, Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy, Brabant, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola, Luxembourg, Limbourg, Guelders, Athens and Patras, Count of Habsburg, Flanders,Tyrol, Holland, Zeeland, Namur, etc., Margrave of the Holy Empire, Count Palatine of Burgundy, Hainault, Pfirt, Roussillon, Kybourg, Landgrave of Alsace, Count of Swabia, Lord of Utrecht, Friesland, etc., Lord of Asia and Africa.
One could argue over the usefullness of a few though, like him being the duke of Athens and king of Jerusalem...
Knight Templar
09-21-2005, 14:03
Does anyone recognise this guy?
http://home.scarlet.be/~jos81/amadeo/90.jpg
Does anyone recognise this guy?
http://home.scarlet.be/~jos81/amadeo/90.jpg
No, not really... his style of dress and haircut probably indicate something very early in the 16th-century and Burgundian or thereabouts... Is it Charles himself? Or maybe his father Philip?
LeftEyeNine
09-26-2005, 21:42
I feel like someone from Iberian peninsula with him though.. Dutch maybe as well..
Knight Templar
09-27-2005, 09:08
No, not really... his style of dress and haircut probably indicate something very early in the 16th-century and Burgundian or thereabouts... Is it Charles himself? Or maybe his father Philip?
You were really close :bow: :bow: ...It is his brother Ferdinand, king of Hungary, Czech and Croatia from 1526-1564, from 1556 Holy Roman emperor. I think he should be on a list.
Gustavus I (Sweden, grandfather of perhaps more wellknown Gustavus II Adolphus)) a truly intresting and rather unpleasent carachter (if not to say scary, harsh, cruel, selfish, decieving and so on - surely would be one of Machiavellis favourites) but still the true founder of the Swedish nationalstate and also worthy of a nomination is his main rival Christian II (Denmark and wannabe Sweden).
Kalle
Aha I see Christian is allready in the poll, then you gotta put Gustavus there aswell.
You were really close :bow: :bow: ...It is his brother Ferdinand, king of Hungary, Czech and Croatia from 1526-1564, from 1556 Holy Roman emperor. I think he should be on a list.
Ah, I thought he looked like a Habsburg (probaly due to the lip). He was a good ruler as well, yes. Probably more sensible then any of the ones I put on the list.
Kalle, I didn't really know anything about Gustavus I, but after looking him up (thanks to Wikipedia), I can see why he could justifiably be on the list. ~D I however had to restrain myself a little, because if I had put all rulers in Europe between 1500 and 1550 on it, it would be far too long, I fear. Hence the "other"-option. If people want it we could always open another poll, of course.
Nah no need for new poll or topic :) This is fine, just wanted to mention him as no one else had done it I think :)
Kalle
Duke Malcolm
09-27-2005, 17:45
James IV, King of Scots.
He gave the Royal College of Surgeons a Royal Charter
Expanded the Royal Navy (of Scotland) by about 40 ships, and commissioned the largest ship in Europe at the time, the Great Michael.
Made way for the United Kingdom and tried to secure the "perpetual peace" with England (which didn't last) by marrying the daughter of the English King.
Had himself, and the entire Scottish Nobility and many more besides slaughtered at the Battle of Flodden...
TheSilverKnight
10-01-2005, 04:31
Well, problem was, although his father (Philip the Fair) died in 1506, Charles' mother, Juana of Castille (also known as the Insane) lived on until 1555 (3 years before Charles' own death and only a few months before he abdicated). She was quite mad and locked away in a castle in Tordesillas, I believe, but as long as she lived Charles was only co-king of the Spanish kingdoms. He had however already been to Spain several times claiming the lands as his, though.
His mother, Juana la Loca, was Queen of Castile in name and technically in power, thus Charles was only Co-King in Castile, but he was technically full ruler with powers in Aragon and the Catalan realms (also Sicily, Sardinia and Naples if we are including those realms as part of the Aragonese Kingdom). He only became full King of Castile when Juana la Loca died, and a few months before his own abdication, so his son Felipe became full King in name and power in Castile and Aragon. :book:
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