whats this they added a cow launcher

[Shadelord]

I mean come on we all know that japan did not know about the cow launcher untill the late 1630's so how could they be put into the this game i mean it makes no since at all this game is suposed to be historicaly acurate and now they just added the cow launcher. this book that i just read on japan's history stat's that 1633 was the earlist it was used now how could it be in the game?

[Ii Naomasa]

What bugs me the most about this is the sheer number of these units we'll see.

Japan has never had a lot of cows. Lack of good grazing land coupled with religious beliefs that generally did not allow beef as a staple part of the diet did not allow the cow to expand across Japan as it did in Europe and in the vast numbers it did in the United States. Even if you take into account oxen and other similar beasts of burdern, you simply just won't get enough cattle to provide ammunition for any prolonged campaign.

And there's the bovine hurling device itself. As we all know, the rules in Japan strictly prohibited the use of wheels by most individuals because of the damage to roads. So, any kind of launching unit would have to be disassembled and reassembled. Given that any decent cow launcher capable of flinging a mooing hulk of steak across the battlefield had to at least be fifteen feet in diameter and ten feet high, we're talking about a lot of lugging. The practicality of bringing these to every battle is ridiculous. You'd need at least a hundred peasants just to carry the thing around.

I suppose as a seige weapon it would have its merits. After all, Europeans were found of flinging dead horses and livestock over castle and town walls to hopefully make the defenders come down with some sickness (or get overwhelmed by the stench). The Buddhist nature of most of Japan's armies would prevent them from using dead animals. Perhaps this is a Christian-only weapon? Or will we finally see a Eta-class unit in the game?

From the looks of it, it seems like you'll be able to use this unit anywhere, though. I suppose flying bovines CAN cause damage to the unsuspecting Ashigaru that it lands on, and I suppose there would be some morale loss (especially if it doesn't survive the impact and now the samurai it landed on has 'sullied' himself by touching dead meat...hmm...perhaps this IS a Christian weapon, designed to make Buddhist units flee the battlefield in search of a shrine to cleanse themselves!...too bad sohei units were more ruffians than true monks...it would be the first true countermeasure against them!)

I can't believe I just wrote all that just to continue Shadelord's sarcastic thread...it was actually fun, doing what we've done to the other units announced.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Ii Naomasa (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Nelson]

If availability is handled like the appearance of Dutch traders, I have no objection to the cow trebs. 1633 is a tad late for most of our games, but I'd be willing to put on the brakes in the campaign to use them.

I suspect that prior to the launcher's debue cows were simply rolled down the hill toward the enemy throughout the 16th century, usually to counter raging sword saints, who went on to open the first Japanese steak houses.

[barocca]

eeh whats up doc?

(I posted these questions at 'that' forum, but, seeing as how most of the brains hang out here, I hope no-one minds me asking them again...
If you don't like it I'll mention your lineage, and it's similarity to a hampster smelling of elderberries ;p )

What I realy want to know is WHICH units can be assigned to the trojan rabbit?

Can we only place ninja inside them, or will we be able to assign any unit at all?

Do the defenders get a % chance of discovering the unit concealed within the trojan rabbit?

Do the defenders need a cow launcher to successfully 'expel' the trojan rabbit from the castle?

Does a successful rabbit expulsion result in the complete loss of the 'concealed' unit?


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Dark Phoenix]

Why cant you just play the game as entertainment and leave history for books our documentaries. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif




------------------
DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon

[Vanya]

I say: load the bovine hurler with ashigaru! Now you have paratroopers!

[Tachikaze]

Sigh.

Once again people come on this forum making claims about "historical accuracy" without reading first.

The cow catapult or boeufuchet was invented in France before 932 AD. There many accounts of minor French incursions into Japan as early as the Camera Cura Period. In one incident, one of these French outposts even claimed to have possession of the long-sought Imperial Tea Cup.

Even though he never referred directly to boeufuchets, Steven Tullburn mentions special armor being developed in Yomomama Period (also known as the Yo Mama Period) as defense against falling bovine.

So, get your facts straight before you start raving about historical inaccuracies!

As far as game balance is concerned, I think we should adopt a wait-and-see attitude until the new release.

------------------
A murky puddle becomes clear when it is still.

[This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Nelson]

Wait and see!

Ya, I heard that! I'm waitin' alright.

And Vanya, that's paraHOOFers.

[barocca]

or is it ParaHeifers?

and Godworm over at 'that' forum had this to say
Quote

GodWorm
(2/1/01 10:07:21 am)
-----------------------------------

...Rice was grown in rice paddies, cows were kept in cow paddies. When the martial possibilities were considered the manure in cow paddies was collected and hardened by fire and used as missiles (later also discovered by the Fecundians who used bull paddies, hence Toro Fecundians)....and this led to the popular English children's song, "Paddy Cake, Paddy Cake, Bakerman".
Anyway, as the art was further refined the practicioners of this art, the Bovine Scatologists, were addressed, by the layman, as BullShit Artists. As there is no actual historical reference anywhere to COW launchings we can only conclude this is the work of BullShit Artists.
I trust this has been enlightening to all.
[/QUOTE]

I can't decide wether he's claiming the Bovine Scatologists suppressed the records of cow launchers, in an effort to improve the status of their own martial art,
or suppressed the records because such a weapon is too terrible to consider in he first place...


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[solypsist]

re: cow thrower

I suppose it's just something to appeal to all those damned Starcraft players (hmm..I seem to be echoing someone else with that line) and hopefully players will feel too embarrassed to use it in MP. I think I might have a screenshot of it somewhere....but anyhow, until we see just how it performs in the actual game, we (ie. YOU) should just be quiet and be thankful that EA has considered those players who might have actually wanted such a device but were afraid to ask. Until the expansion actually comes out, we should just wait and see before trying to rabble-rouse the other users in this forum in order tol insure a good product. Personally, I can't wait to use one - can it be flanked? it might be a special event, just like the Legendary Swordsman. My only complaint is that it's so much smaller than the Kensai.

[Vanya]

I say it will have to have a special event: you will have to have a cow in order to project it onto thine enemies...

[Tachikaze]

Your soldiers have to become vegetarians so they won't eat the ammunition.

[Vanya]

Feed the cows that which makes them fart a lot, and have loose bowels. This way, when you hurl them at thine enemies, you also GAS them!

This could lead to the first known uses of toxic nerve gas to strike down enemies in Japan, a la Saddam Hussein...

[barocca]

actually Vanya,
the first known use of toxic gas was during the introduction of firearms.
Morii, unable to devise a tactic to overcome Oda's expert use of firearms, would feed his Ashi's heavily spiced rice laden with MSG (smuggled from china) on the night before battle.
The Ashi's naturally would eat far more than normal, and would wake the next morning with bellies bloated with gas.

Morii would attack from upwind and order the Ashi's to charge the ranks of muskets; As each was shot the foul gas eminating from the bodies would drift downwind and immobilise the musketeers.


------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Vanya]

Oh great master... you have shown me the light! I shall now catapult ashigaru on your diet onto enemy lines, where they will land on their pointy sticks and spew their deadly cargo directly onto their formations! And I shall catapult them naked and unarmed, so that they cannot defend themselves, thus ensuring the delivery of the weapon.

Why didn't I think of this before?!?

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[barocca]

Vanya,
it is a proud day when the master learns something from the student,
even i had not thought to employ the cow launcher in such a fashion,

thank you grasshopper, you are ready...

------------------
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[hach]

where are you getting this cow launcher info??

hach

[Tenchimuyo]

Cow launcher? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

But very funny http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Tachikaze]

Hach,

Watch the 1975 British film, Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It will solve many mysteries in these forums.

------------------
A murky puddle becomes clear when it is still.