A little hypothesis

[Byzantine Prince]

Let's assume certain things:

God is a god.
He is the only one.
He is alone.
He creates things to love.
He doesn't have purpose on his own.
He does not believe in god, for he is god.

Now make the argument, what is the difference between a nihilist(me) and god?

In my opinion by being a nihilistic atheist like myself is the closest thing to god. If he exists, he surely loves me the most.

[Soulforged]

Let's assume certain things:

God is a god.
He is the only one.
He is alone.
He creates things to love.
He doesn't have purpose on his own.
He does not believe in god, for he is god.

Now make the argument, what is the difference between a nihilist(me) and god?

In my opinion by being a nihilistic atheist like myself is the closest thing to god. If he exists, he surely loves me the most.


Let me ask you something. When the anarchist question came out many talked from ignorance, I'll try not to make the same mistake. So if you say that you're a nihilist: What's a nihilist? Does a nihilist not believe in anything for certain, so you can't be a nihilist and atheist at the same time?
And the difference will be that you don't create things to love and you're not alone. And I don't know but if you're a nihilist then how do you know you exist? Again maybe I misunderstood what is nihilism.

[Franconicus]

Let's assume certain things:

God is a god. You are not ~;)
He is the only one. You are not
He is alone. You are not (although you may believe it)
He creates things to love. And takes care of them. You do not.
He doesn't have purpose on his own. Really?
He does not believe in god, for he is god. He believes in his creation.
In my opinion by being a nihilistic atheist like yourself is not very close to god. If he exists, he surely loves you - like everyone else. Your created you, you are his son. :laugh4:

[Sigurd]

Let's assume certain things:

God is a god.
He is the only one.
He is alone.
He creates things to love.
He doesn't have purpose on his own.
He does not believe in god, for he is god.

Now make the argument, what is the difference between a nihilist(me) and god?

According to Nietzsche a nihilist is someone who believes in an afterlife and strives to obey the requirements for this afterlife, hence forgets about the now and the good life one can enjoy right now.
He called Christian morals nihilistic as it conforms to this philosophy.

Another definition of a nihilist is that he/she denies the existence of truth.
Does God believe in absolute truths?
Does He conform to universal truths and laws that even He needs to obey?
If god does not conform to universal truths and laws He is a nihilist.
And hence a nihilist and God agree.

What about the liar paradox?
:thinking2:

[Byzantine Prince]

It's amazing how people confuse nihilism with skepticim.

=Soulforged
Does a nihilist not believe in anything for certain
No. The nihilist is absolutely sure of himself. He is the ultimate realist.

=Soulforged
so you can't be a nihilist and atheist at the same time?
All nihilists are atheists, so I guess it's redundant but I felt it added much needed spice.

=Soulforged
you don't create things to love
Art.

=Soulforged
and you're not alone.
The truth is man is all alone. The loneliest animal of all. He alone trully suffers.

=Soulforged
And I don't know but if you're a nihilist then how do you know you exist?
You run into the danger of being confused with skepticism and obsurdism there.

=Soulforged
Again maybe I misunderstood what is nihilism.
Yes.



According to Nietzsche a nihilist is someone who believes in an afterlife and strives to obey the requirements for this afterlife
:laugh4: Funniest and most contradictory thing I've heard about Nietzsche. Again you might have misinterpreted what you read.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Es ist allgemein bekannt, wie heftig Nietzsche das Christentum attackiert hat, aber allein die Leidenschaftlichkeit seiner Äußerungen zeugt davon, daß die mit Religion verbundenen Fragen nicht nur seine Vernunft, sondern sein ganzes Wesen ergriffen. Die Suche Nietzsches nach Gott erfolgt aber jenseits der menschlichen Vernunft, jenseits aller moralischen Gesetze, jenseits von Gut und Böse. Nämlich aus seiner tief persönlichen Suche nach Gott folgt Nietzsches Nihilismus inbezug auf alles Weltliche. Das Wort „Nihilismus“ wird bei Nietzsche in zwei Bedeutungen gebraucht. In einer Bedeutung ist das Synonym zum Nihilismus das Wort „decadance“ als Empfinden der Sinnlosigkeit der ganzen Welt und der eigenen Existenz. Das ist eng mit dem Zweifeln an der Existenz Gottes verbunden. Man kann behaupten, daß Nietzsche das fühlt, was Dostojewski beschreibt, indem er Mitja Karamazow sagen läßt: „Gott quält mich“. Wenn es keinen Gott gibt, ist alles erlaubt, es gibt weder Ziel, noch Sinn. Nietzsche kämpft gegen den alten „Inhalt“ des Begriffs „Gott“, er versucht das Religiöse vom Moralischen zu trennen, weil er sieht, daß diese Verbindung nicht meht aktuell ist, und daß sie stört, das eigentlich Religiöse zu erleben. In einem seiner Artikel zitiert B. Fondane folgende Worte von Nietzsche aus den nach seinem Tode veröffentlichen Schriften: „Ablehnung Gottes - im Grunde genommen wird nur der moralische Gott abgelehnt“. Als Überwindung von „decadance“ schlägt Nietzsche Nihilismus als tief persönliche Umwertung aller Werte, als Verwenden der Freiheit, die dem Menschen gegeben worden war, indem Gott ihn zu seinem Bilde schuf, vor. Diese Freiheit führt Nietzsche zu dem Gott, der Freiheit, Macht und Freude bedeutet, zu dem Gott des tanzenden Zarathustra. Der Gott ist nur durch den Nihilismus, durch das Überwinden aller menschlichen Gesetze der Vernunft und Moral zu erreichen.Surely any self-proclaimed Nietzsche (http://www.helmut-hille-philosophie.de/irina.html) expert can read German?

For those who don't, it says that somebody is clueless about Nietzsche, and that it ain't Sigurd. ~:handball:

[Byzantine Prince]

I know he hated nihilists. But that's only because he himself was trying to get away from it. He was trying to avoid it because it was all to familiar to him. ~;)
He was a Schopenhauer fanboy, and he didn't like that particular brand of pessimistic nihilism. To say that Nietzsche is devoid of nihilism(for the overwhelming most part) is to not understand his writings.

Just because I like Nietzsche doesn't mean I agree with EVERYTHING he says. Also if he really said that nihilists believe in an afterlife it's still ridiculous, and was probably used in a metaphorical sense, not a direct one.

And no I cannot read German, but I know that nietzsche didn't write that little article, lol.

Calling me clueless about Nietzsce is like calling the Pope clueless about the Bible. I've read almost everything he has written.

[Proletariat]

Calling me clueless about Nietzsce is like calling the Pope clueless about the Bible. I've read almost everything he has written.

Sheesh. You seem to love him just to show a contrarian stance to the misguided masses that demonized him.

[Sjakihata]

BP, you should read some Søren Aabye Kierkegaard instead, it's more healthy for you :bow:

[Kanamori]

At any rate, the conclusion is non-transferrable because it is dependant on suppositions that may not be true, ignoring any internal fallacies.

[Strike For The South]

He obvisouly belives in god because he is i belive in me and i am here

[Don Corleone]

Kierkagaard rocks. Explains away the need for dogma (and thus dogmatic conflicts) in 3 sentences.

[Byzantine Prince]

I've read Kierkegaard. So what?

Don, I just want to be 'great' and play it safe. ~;)
You can go ahead and be the greatest. ~D

God cannot believe in a god. That's a fact. If I am to follow in his example I am to do the same. If I'm the same as god, then he cannot hate me.

[Strike For The South]

God cannot believe in a god. .

How so he is he knows it

[Redleg]

~D

God cannot believe in a god. That's a fact.

Not a fact, Because for it to be fact you would have had to speak to God to ask him. Since God's existance can not be proven or disproven - your making an assumption. Hince the rest is nothing but a exercise in fallacy.



If I am to follow in his example I am to do the same. If I'm the same as god, then he cannot hate me.

Continue with your logical fallacy.

Again your making an assumption that you are the same as god. That would be incorrect since you refuse to believe in yourself. Since no one believes in you - you can not be the same as god.

[Don Corleone]

I wasn't addressing your little exercise in vanity at all. I was specifically mentioning that I like Kierkagaard's writings. Very clever, down to earth.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Let's assume certain things:

God is a god.
He is the only one.
He is alone.
He creates things to love.
He doesn't have purpose on his own.
He does not believe in god, for he is god.

Now make the argument, what is the difference between a nihilist(me) and god?Simple. Try some falsification. :book:

It doesn't matter if you can think of six, sixty of sixty million similarities. All I need to do is to name but a single difference to disprove it.

Do you want me to name any obvious differences between you and God or shall we just leave it at this?

[Zharakov]

Here is my therory


God made man and woman in some way that we know not of.

God could care less if you believe in him or not as long as you believe in something.

As long as you are a good person you will go to Heaven. Athiests included.

God did not creat solely for people to love. Because love is only one of the things we humans are capable of doing.

The Apocolyps will come. But Humanity will win.

And we are not the first.

[TosaInu]

God cannot believe in a god.

This is correct. The Bible writes: there's no other god than God. Ergo, God does not believe in a god. This is no deduction, but true if that was God's saying and His statement being correct.

If your statement is: God cannot believe in God (which I assume you are trying to say), then you lost me. Isn't that the same as saying that you don't believe in yourself? How is it possible that I reply to your post? I'm I seeing things that don't exist?

[Sjakihata]

I've read Kierkegaard. So what?


What books?

[Byzantine Prince]

This is correct. The Bible writes: there's no other god than God. Ergo, God does not believe in a god. This is no deduction, but true if that was God's saying and His statement being correct.

If your statement is: God cannot believe in God (which I assume you are trying to say), then you lost me. Isn't that the same as saying that you don't believe in yourself? How is it possible that I reply to your post? I'm I seeing things that don't exist?
I used "cannot" instead of "does not" because it is not known if god exists or not. God (if he exists) does not believe in himself as in he doesn't worship himself. It's illogical to assume that.



Do you want me to name any obvious differences between you and God or shall we just leave it at this?
Tell me. There can't be a difference. The bible states that we were made in his image(meaning our spirit) and most atheist philosophy says we made him out of our own image(of the spirit). So you cannot say anything that would not be applicable.

[Papewaio]

Well if you are God, then I am Mary and you are 2000 years behind in your child support payments, so cough up. ~:handball: ~:cool:

At least with Zeus you get a Golden shower or a Swan But oh no with you it is all immaculate, no fun, all burden. ~:cool:

Oh and where were you when I was trying to convince him to settle down with a nice Jewish girl, one with a doctor or a lawyer for a father. Instead you talk him into some sort of frat road trip with the boys causing all sorts of troubles for the local stone throwers, temples, romans and judicial system. ~D

So I want child support and emotional damages buster!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Tell me. There can't be a difference. The bible states that we were made in his image(meaning our spirit) and most atheist philosophy says we made him out of our own image(of the spirit). The image of an object is not the same as that object itself.

If I see my image in a mirror, do I like a dog start to bark at that other dog in the mirror?


Not to mention, assuming the above is correct, and you are god, then why isn't everybody god? Surely those Christians from your first post wouldn't have any reason to be jealous of your lofty status then?

[Sjakihata]

Tell me. There can't be a difference. The bible states that we were made in his image(meaning our spirit) and most atheist philosophy says we made him out of our own image(of the spirit). So you cannot say anything that would not be applicable.

I'd like to place an order of a world of my own please. It should contain mountainous regions, dense forrests. Wild nature, friendly animals. Hot babes - no men, and a big mansion. The size of Germany should do.
The world itself should be about the size of mercury or pluto.

How long? 3-4 days at most? and no, im not paying for your holiday!

oh, and please, dont put snakes in there - it didnt went well last time, remember?

[Papewaio]

You could just move to NZ, lots of men... but they are good role models ~;)

You will get mountains and forests and no snakes.

Babes are up to the eyes of the beholder, but I think you may not find the PM to your standard... except she will go mountain climbing with you.

[Don Corleone]

By the way, BP, based on your work with Katrina and now Rita, not to mention the ongoing famine in Niger, you're doing a pretty crappy job.

Don't you suppose it's time for you to quit wasting your time debating your divinity with us mere mortals (who, for the record wouldn't be able to comprehend it anyway, but being divine, I'm sure you already know that) and head out and fix some of the messes you've allowed to accumulate.

[Sjakihata]

yes, how will God himself answer to the classical Teodicé problem?

[Papewaio]

Since I am neither God nor classical could you explain the Teodicé problem?

[Sjakihata]

Since I am neither God nor classical could you explain the Teodicé problem?

yes, certainly. I believe it was first encountered, officially, by Augustin. Basically, God is a good being. He creates light, sees it's good etc. Eg. He is good.
Also he is omnipotent, everything that happens, is through his will - or neglect thereof.

The problem arised first, I think, when an earthquake shattered Portugal (or was it Spain). At that time, said country was a very God-fearing nation, very holy and religious. So people asked themselves, why their country was hit - and not the infidels or pagans.

The teodicé problem simply means, then; Why does a good omnipotent God allow badness and evil to happen?

Of course, the simple answer is, the Lord's ways are mysterious, but...

[Papewaio]

Because it sorts the true believers from the fairweather ones... look in the bible and see how it makes big Jobs ~;) for his most devout followers.

[Divinus Arma]

God is a god.
He is the only one.
He is alone.
He creates things to love.
He doesn't have purpose on his own.
He does not believe in god, for he is god.



I agree.

Your argument contributes towards the proof that God exists.

His creation is his purpose. And we are unique in that we are the only known created entity that chooses whether to contribute to God's purpose or not. We may alter our own purpose so that it meets God's purpose, or we may only serve our own purpose. God's purpose for us is to make this choice freely.

And there you have it. Divinus Arma's meaning of life.


Close your eyes in the dark. Empty your mind of all things external. You are trapped. What if you were like this for all eternity? Now you are like God. You may imagine something... and it will be so. Your daydreams are in your control. But what if some parts were independant and did what they wanted without your control? It could be beautiful and fascinating. Or you could have eternal nightmares. So to with God. Our horrors are His nightmares. Our triumphs are beautiful and fascinating to Him.

Which road will you take as God's daydream?

[Byzantine Prince]

Thanks DA!
I think I'll play the part that is very similar to Nietzsche's. I'll ignore him and then feel bad about it because I used to love him and I miss him.

I never said that I am him. I only said there is no difference between us in how we are. That doesn't necessarily include level of power.

[Skomatth]

yes, certainly. I believe it was first encountered, officially, by Augustin. Basically, God is a good being. He creates light, sees it's good etc. Eg. He is good.
Also he is omnipotent, everything that happens, is through his will - or neglect thereof.

There is another answer to this problem. Omnipotence has very weak Biblical support. There is a passage in Revelations which might suggest omnipotence and also one in Matthew. However, the one in Matthew is in context of being saved. "With God all things are possible".

The source of the concept of an omnipotent god is taken from the Greeks and mixed with a Judeo-Christian God.

[Papewaio]

I never said that I am him. I only said there is no difference between us in how we are. That doesn't necessarily include level of power.

Made in His image eh!...