View Full Version : Is reporting "bad" posts whining?
Devastatin Dave
09-27-2005, 15:33
I was just informed by one of the backroom mods that i should limit my "whining" about reporting "bad" posts that are insulting to Christians. So, is reporting posts that offends you considered "whining"? Or is it only "whining" when the subject matter that you are reporting is critical to Christianity or Christians themselves. Is it me or has the moderation in the backroom, although it has been quite fair more times than not, taken a turn to the left? Or am I just "whining" some more? ~:handball:
A.Saturnus
09-27-2005, 15:46
I wonder how the backroom moderation could turn left when it was already extremely biased as you persisted in pointing out ~;)
But concerning your question, I don´t think it´s whining to report a post. Of course, it depends how you report it. After all, the function´s there for a purpose. It´s just that if the mods have a different view on things, you can´t expect them to act according to your liking.
Ser Clegane
09-27-2005, 15:51
Obviously this refers to the PM I sent you, Dave.
I think I made it pretty clear in my PM that it is not the reporting of posts I have an issue with (the reporting of "bad" posts by patrons is a feature that is much appreciated by the moderators) but with the accompanying comments.
Some examples:
Will a mod do their job, or is will nothing be done since its obvious because of the mod's personal bias.
A totally ignorant statement about Christians, this will get ugly if nothing is done quick even if the mods probably agree with the statement.
Looks like a grand old Christian bashing time in here, I'm sure you guys won't do shit about it since most of you agree with the anti Christian message.
In my PM I suggested that instead of throwing around accusations in "bad post reports" and in threads, you should address any moderating-bias you note in the Backroom section of the Watchtower.
If there is reason for criticism I prefer to discuss it openly instead of permanently having to read snide remarks (which I personally consider to be poor style).
Devastatin Dave
09-27-2005, 16:08
Some examples:
Will a mod do their job, or is will nothing be done since its obvious because of the mod's personal bias.
Quote:
A totally ignorant statement about Christians, this will get ugly if nothing is done quick even if the mods probably agree with the statement.
Quote:
Looks like a grand old Christian bashing time in here, I'm sure you guys won't do shit about it since most of you agree with the anti Christian message.
In my PM I suggested that instead of throwing around accusations in "bad post reports" and in threads, you should address any moderating-bias you note in the Backroom section of the Watchtower.
If there is reason for criticism I prefer to discuss it openly instead of permanently having to read snide remarks (which I personally consider to be poor style).
Nice... Those were sent after the posts that those were referring to had no action taken as timely as, oh let's say, someone said something derrogatory against some pet belief systems that has a higher degree of protection than belief systems that are less popular to you and others. Paint me as you want. Snide remarks? I guess you are completely innocent of making ANY snide remarks? Next you just simply blow it off and ask for more proof? Obviously this will never be resolved and I'll just stop "whining" through the post reporting system. Sorry that i took your suggestion Ser to make a thread here in order for you to make me look like an asshole in public. Great job BTW of baiting me through PM's (private messaging, right?) in order to vent out your frustration with me. That's gotta take some great skill. ~:handball:
English assassin
09-27-2005, 16:44
If it makes you feel any better Dave I once reported what I regarded as a blatantly racist post by a well known right leaning member. Sod all was done about it, (I didn't even get a PM telling me to shut up) which I found quite incredible. I was so incensed I banned myself from the Org for a few weeks because if I came here I knew I was going to post nothing good.
It happens. I guess we aren't going to agree with the mods all the time. I still think I was right but, root de toot, gotta move on.
Devastatin Dave
09-27-2005, 17:02
If it makes you feel any better Dave I once reported what I regarded as a blatantly racist post by a well known right leaning member. Sod all was done about it, (I didn't even get a PM telling me to shut up) which I found quite incredible. I was so incensed I banned myself from the Org for a few weeks because if I came here I knew I was going to post nothing good.
It happens. I guess we aren't going to agree with the mods all the time. I still think I was right but, root de toot, gotta move on.
Good points, so maybe we should take a more "liberal" stance on the whole posting and reporting "bad" posts. Is it possible to not offend everyone? No. So why should we have a system that can be used, by accident or intentional, to limit what is considered "objectional"? By whose standards? Yes, by the Mods and Tosa but can there be a completely clear and definite definition of the forum rules? I don't think so personally, but then again, I maybe a little whiney. ~D
King Henry V
09-27-2005, 17:55
I must admit that your posts did over step the mark a bit there, Dave.
Back to the question. No, it's not whining, it's just another weapon in the debating arsenal. ;-)
I think it's possible to post without offending anyone or anything, but I also think it's possible to read offence in anything.
What's the problem Devastatin Dave? I was busy with the Backroom topic yesterday and immediately processed the reported posts. Processing means here that I read the posts again and edit/PM/Warn/Alert when I agree it's over the top (black or white doesn't matter). Processing doesn't mean that the reported post is deleted and the author banned. Though it's a tempting thought: I think the Backroom will eliminate itself within 24 hours.
I think the problem isn't with the forum rules, the problem is with the topics, sometimes the author and sometimes the reader.
Devastatin Dave
09-27-2005, 20:11
What's the problem Devastatin Dave?
No problem, I'm just an idiot for doing what was suggested to me only to have it backfired and used against me, as planned I'm sure, by posting this issue. I'm wrong, Ser's right, and vindicated with much satifaction I'm sure, I'll stop being so whiney.
Proletariat
09-27-2005, 20:26
Quit trying to politicize the Org's Judiciary!!!ONE!
Dave, if it helps any, your initial general complaint - that there may be a double standard in "protecting" Christianity as opposed to other religions - was taken very seriously and discussed at length amongst Org staff. I think it gave us all pause for thought. Some, including myself, did not think the complaint justified. Others thought it valid. We're a group of individuals and don't always agree. Ultimately, the final decision over complaints lie with the relevant forum's moderator, with a "right of appeal" to the admins. But I assure you that your complaint was not ignored and did make us more aware of the issue you raised.
EA, I don't know about the specific case you cite - it may have been before I got my robes - but you cannot always tell if action has been taken on a complaint. We don't always edit/delete posts or issue public rebukes. Maybe we should have done in the case you mention, I don't know. But often people are warned for bad posts without the posts themselves being edited.
PanzerJaeger
09-27-2005, 20:45
Theres clearly a double standard Dave. Youve seen how criticism of Christianity and criticism of Islam are dealt with completely differently. Thats just the way it is here at the .org. There's plenty of bias against Christianity, but its much less than in a lot of forums and we just have to live with it.
*wonders how many of his own posts have been reported* ~:eek:
Adrian II
09-27-2005, 20:47
Reporting other peoples' posts isn't cricket in my book. I never do it. I try to respond to insulting posts in a polite way. Often I do not respond at all, I just can't be bothered. There are more important issues in life than what passes for 'debate' in a game forum backroom.
Reporting other peoples' posts isn't cricket in my book.
With respect, I am not sure that's the way to look at it. Contrary to King Henry V's joke, the report feature is not provided so that people can score an underhand blow against their sparring partners. So you should not feel bad about it in that way. I look at it more as a wake up call to alert the mods - we are only human and may see something too late or maybe not see it at all.
I try to respond to insulting posts in a polite way.
I think this is often the best way. :bow: Fighting fire with fire is hopeless. And responding in public, rather than reporting in private, helps cultivate an atmosphere of civility where bad posts are not considered acceptable. Where the insult is particularly bad - e.g. it should be edited or deleted - reporting it may be more effective though.
Often I do not respond at all, I just can't be bothered.
I understand - there's a danger of just causing bickering. But if the issue is serious, it's probably best to make your case politely and hope that people will see sense.
Adrian II
09-27-2005, 23:17
But if the issue is serious, it's probably best to make your case politely and hope that people will see sense.Or I may see sense myself. It happens that I take offense at a post at first, but not afterwards when I read it again.
Or I may see sense myself. It happens that I take offense at a post at first, but not afterwards when I read it again.
Yes, that is a very good reason for holding fire. Reply at speed, repent at leisure.
A.Saturnus
09-28-2005, 15:45
Reporting other peoples' posts isn't cricket in my book. I never do it. I try to respond to insulting posts in a polite way. Often I do not respond at all, I just can't be bothered. There are more important issues in life than what passes for 'debate' in a game forum backroom.
Reporting posts is a very valuable tool for moderators. If everyone instead of only the mods keep an eye open for bad posts, the lives of the moderators were much easier.
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 15:52
Reporting posts is a very valuable tool for moderators. If everyone instead of only the mods keep an eye open for bad posts, the lives of the moderators were much easier.
Unless its met with criticism and used to post in a thread to paint the person as a whiner. So let this thread be a lesson to anyone reporting a bad post, it won't be anonymous and it can be used against you. So it will probably be better to do what AdrianII suggested; just don't let it bother you and keep responses polite.
I think this thread has served its purpose in more ways than expected... ~:handball:
Unless its met with criticism and used to post in a thread to paint the person as a whiner. So let this thread be a lesson to anyone reporting a bad post, it won't be anonymous and it can be used against you.
Not exactly. Your PM to me that started all this was answered in confidence. I even asked you not to start a thread about it as the discussions about your complaint were ongoing.
Well, you started a thread...
Ser Clegane
09-28-2005, 16:07
Not exactly. Your PM to me that started all this was answered in confidence. I even asked you not to start a thread about it as the discussions about your complaint were ongoing.
Well, you started a thread...
Uhm ... before things get mixed up ... Dave started this thread after I sent him a PM. I suggested that if he had the feeling that the Backroom moderators were biased he should start a thread in the Watchtower to discuss this issue instead of just making accusations (like the ones I quoted) in every other "bad post report" and in various threads.
I called these accusations "whining" as long as no facts to backup these accusations are provided (I did not call the reporting of "bad posts" as such whining - which I made clear in our PM exchange - but the manner in which the reports are made).
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 16:20
Not exactly. Your PM to me that started all this was answered in confidence. I even asked you not to start a thread about it as the discussions about your complaint were ongoing.
Well, you started a thread...
Well, you're wrong, so cool your jets. If you, Ser, and which ever other mod want to pile on just because I did what was suggested, bring it the #### on. What a crock of ####. :furious3:
Too bad there are no mods for the mods... :help:
If that's the case than I apologize to Dev Dave for my mistake. :bow:
Duke John
09-28-2005, 16:49
Too bad there are no mods for the mods...Surely there is always God to punish the heathen mods :wink:
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 16:55
If that's the case than I apologize to Dev Dave for my mistake. :bow:
And I'm sorry for being nasty with my response.
And Duke, God will judge us all.
Ja'chyra
09-28-2005, 17:37
I'd say it depends on what you reported, if you reported everyone that said there is no God or religion is all a con then yes that is just whining, just as if I reported your last post here as being offensive as I don't believe in God then that would be whining too.
Red Harvest
09-28-2005, 17:45
I've noticed that those who like to go into "pack attack" mode tend to be the whiners about such things. Seems like when they can't refute something, they go crying for help.
I can't recall any posts I've reported although I've seen many that deserved to be.
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 17:49
I'd say it depends on what you reported, if you reported everyone that said there is no God or religion is all a con then yes that is just whining, just as if I reported your last post here as being offensive as I don't believe in God then that would be whining too.
Well, its in the context in which Ser Clegane neglected to include, not by accident I'm sure, when he posted my "bad post" comments. The posts i was reporting WERE offensive and not just a disagreement on the comments. Of course to Ser and others, they probably didn't see the offensiveness since they had the same feelings as the posts. I'm sure its hard to moderate on things that you agree on. I'm sure I can't get you to see my point either Ja'chyra, so please excuse my whining. ~:handball:
Ser Clegane
09-28-2005, 18:42
Ok, for the last time:
It is not the reporting of posts that I took exception to or that I referred to as "whining".
If that is the perception I created I am sorry for that.
Instead of flaming a post that they consider to be offensive, patrons should report these posts - and Dave is not the only one who excercises this right.
Reporting a post serves as an alert to the moderating staff to become aware of any offensive posts that escaped our attention - the moderating staff will then decide if and what kind of actions are appropriate.
Sometimes these actions will be visible to the public, sometimes they will not be visible to the public ... sometimes there will be no action (there will be no warnings "on demand").
What I referred to as "whining" and considered to be bad style were the repeated Kindergarten remarks along the line of "you are biased and actually agree with the post I reported, so you will do nothing anyway".
I suggested to Dave that, if he had the feeling that the Backroom moderators (i.e., primarily me) were so biased, he should take this issue to the Watchtower and preferably add some cases to back up his point.
Dave, feel free to post the PMs I sent you on this issue if you feel that this might help to clear up the situation.
:bow:
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 18:49
Dave, feel free to post the PMs I sent you on this issue if you feel that this might help to clear up the situation.
:bow:
I leave that up to you, you seem to have a better ability of posting what is sent in private. I also have to keep my PM box open since it gets filled so quicky because I'm such a pain. But, please feel free to continue, Red Harvest along with others appear to enjoy this thread. :bow:
caesar44
09-28-2005, 19:54
DD , Ser , Can't you all get along , the Christian way ~;) (hey , me no Christian but nonetheless...)
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 20:00
DD , Ser , Can't you all get along , the Christian way ~;) (hey , me no Christian but nonetheless...)
We do get along, in our own special little way. ~D
Meneldil
09-28-2005, 20:18
Well, if DevDave reports each and every post with the words 'religion' and 'bad' as being offensive, it sure as hell must be really annoying.
While many of these topics usually don't deal with christianism, but rather with religion as a whole (including Islam, Judaism), you still find a way to reply 'oh well, some more christian bashing here' or another pointless comment of that kind.
Now, image if I reported all posts I disagree with. Like, french bashing, european bashing, socialist bashing, pointless comment like 'kill them all', and statements like 'atheism is a religion yadayada'. I'm fairly sure Ser Clegane would quickly ban me.
Ser Clegane
09-28-2005, 20:27
Uhmm ... perhaps I have to say this again:
The volume of reports is not the issue, and it is definitely not the case that Dave reported every post with religion in it.
And no, reporting posts containing country bashing will not lead to a ban.
Devastatin Dave
09-28-2005, 20:51
Well, if DevDave reports each and every post with the words 'religion' and 'bad' as being offensive, it sure as hell must be really annoying.
While many of these topics usually don't deal with christianism, but rather with religion as a whole (including Islam, Judaism), you still find a way to reply 'oh well, some more christian bashing here' or another pointless comment of that kind.
Now, image if I reported all posts I disagree with. Like, french bashing, european bashing, socialist bashing, pointless comment like 'kill them all', and statements like 'atheism is a religion yadayada'. I'm fairly sure Ser Clegane would quickly ban me.
Well that wasn't the case, it was things that I found truelly offensive. It wasn't stuff like, "I don't like Christianity" or "I'm an athiest because I don't like religion" it was stuff like comparing Christians to hitler and religious people being stupid. So no, I was not reporting each and every post.
Posts comparing Christians to Hitler?
The Stranger
09-29-2005, 18:37
thats not so good...hitler was a pig...a fascist pig
Sjakihata
10-03-2005, 21:31
it was stuff like ... religious people being stupid
And how is this christian bashing?
Personally, I think all this whining should be halted as soon as possible. Report to the post instead of coming with these vague accusations.
Oh my god.
religious people being stupid
This would be an insult to anyone believing in a religion.
It's equally fine with the rules when people say 'I believe in Entity' and 'I don't believe in Entity'. It's also fine when both sides bring up 'prove'. It's not fine when either side starts insulting the other.
It's a difficult thing I know and likely full of double standards, bias and whatever, but hey: I didn't bring these topics here. Believe your own thing and show some respect for the others.
:scastle:
caesar44
10-04-2005, 18:14
"Toleration is the best religion." (Victor Hugo)
Me so saint...~D
Sjakihata
10-04-2005, 18:30
toleration? I thought it was called tolerance... ~:confused:
caesar44
10-04-2005, 18:39
toleration? I thought it was called tolerance... ~:confused:
So , should I tell it to Mr. Hugo ?
Btw - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14763a.htm , it's toleration
Papewaio
10-07-2005, 05:13
Well in all honesty I don't read every thread and so I need the reports to help me see the bad posts.
A normal response is to give a poster the chance to read a PM and self edit.
Then if they fail to do so the moderator steps in and hands out a warnings as required.
----
Try the concept of charity and see the post in the best light. If even under that light it is bad, report it. If you don't get satisfaction, well I tend to rant at that point and hit them with villiage people smilies... but then again I never said I was a model mod. ~:cheers:
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