[news] Be afraid of the future

[solypsist]

"Suspects arrested or detained by federal authorities could be forced to provide samples of their DNA that would be recorded in a central database under a provision of a Senate bill to expand government collection of personal data. The controversial measure was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee last week and is supported by the White House, but has not gone to the floor for a vote. It goes beyond current law, which allows federal authorities to collect and record samples of DNA only from those convicted of crimes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/23/AR2005092301665.html

pros? cons?

[Goofball]

"Suspects arrested or detained by federal authorities could be forced to provide samples of their DNA that would be recorded in a central database under a provision of a Senate bill to expand government collection of personal data. The controversial measure was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee last week and is supported by the White House, but has not gone to the floor for a vote. It goes beyond current law, which allows federal authorities to collect and record samples of DNA only from those convicted of crimes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/23/AR2005092301665.html

pros? cons?

I don't know why everybody gets so upset about things like this. If you're not a terrorist or a criminal you have nothing to fear from der Fuhrer's... oops... I mean Bush's new internal security agenda.

~D

[Don Corleone]

I think this is a terrible abuse of privacy, and it's not even just those arrested/detained. The hospital wants my wife & I to sign a waver allowing them to retain DNA samples of our baby when she's born (by the way, while you were gone, I knocked up my wife ~D ). I blew a gasket. They also sent a detailed questionaire on our eating habits, education, racial makeup, the whole 9 yards... The reason? So they could author the birth certificate.... color me skeptical, but it sounds like a research study to me.

[Kagemusha]

Bigbrother is watching.Im afraid that one day we will live in a society where everyones movements can be observed 24 hours a day.There goes privaty. :bigcry:

[solypsist]

i thought this place was already called Britain (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2001/09/26/cameras.htm)?



Bigbrother is watching.Im afraid that one day we will live in a society where everyones movements can be observed 24 hours a day.There goes privaty. :bigcry:

[drone]

The continuing invasion of privacy by the government has got to stop. The initiative I find the most disturbing is the fingerprinting of children, supposedly to help police find them if they are abducted. Do they destroy these records when the children become 18? I don't think so. If I am ever convicted of a crime, they can take my fingerprints, DNA, retinal scan, and a stool sample for all I care, but until then they don't need anything from me but my taxes. Have the police gotten lazy, do they need everybody's biometrics to solve crimes these days?

And it's not just the government. Stores ask for phone numbers or zip codes when making purchases. Website registration required even when there is no charge. All of this information gathered, with no control over access. This is why I own a shredder, and have bogus phone numbers, email, birth dates, and addresses I can give out to people with no real reason to know. I also own Alcoa stock, so I can recoup the cost of my tin foil hats. ~;)

[Kagemusha]

i thought this place was already called Britain (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2001/09/26/cameras.htm)?

Yes.I think you are right about Britain,but almost same goes also in every other European metropol.But about DNA samples arent they coming to passports aswell.So if one likes to travel a lot,the person also has to give an sample of his DNA to the government.It shouldnt be so hard to create an data bank from those samples.Infact it should be necessary,because without a databank there is no sense to put those samples on passports. :shrug:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Whoa.

It appears there is *GASP!* agreement amoung us all!

I think this is a terrible idea. I'm sick of people saying "If you're good, you have nothing to fear." It should be, "They should know nothing unless I am a criminal."

Any Brits (no offense intended, its just that Britian is slowly turning into big brother) who believe this is good?

Crazed Rabbit

[Don Corleone]

You know what I find funny about the whole privacy question?

The Left blames the Right and the Right blames the Left. In reality, it's government versus society, regardless of political leanings.

[Kagemusha]

You know what I find funny about the whole privacy question?

The Left blames the Right and the Right blames the Left. In reality, it's government versus society, regardless of political leanings.

You hitted the nail straight to the head there Don. :bow:

[solypsist]

all roads in government eventually lead to fascism. i think that's how the quote goes.



You know what I find funny about the whole privacy question?

The Left blames the Right and the Right blames the Left. In reality, it's government versus society, regardless of political leanings.

[Kagemusha]

all roads in government eventually lead to fascism. i think that's how the quote goes.

Yes.I think government is like a fire, good friend of a man when kept under control,but terrible foe if let loose.

[Rob The Bastard]

Just another step towards totalitarianism... ~;)

All for your protection, of course.

If these records were returned or destroyed if the donor/suspected criminal was found to be innocent or not involved in a crime then it might not be so bad.

I am all for taking samples from criminals convicted of serious crimes. I think that might be a useful tool in solving crimes.


Recently somebody wandered onto my property and stole a couple of solar lights that my wife had in our front garden... they cost a few dollars, no big deal, you would think. My wife no longer feels safe to walk out to our back garden to shut her hens for the evening... someone might be there. Whoever took the lights has stolen my wifes' freedom and I'd happily feed them feet first through a industrial sized mulcher if I could lay my hands on them.

:idea3: It occurs to me that I might be biased.

[The Stranger]

"Suspects arrested or detained by federal authorities could be forced to provide samples of their DNA that would be recorded in a central database under a provision of a Senate bill to expand government collection of personal data. The controversial measure was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee last week and is supported by the White House, but has not gone to the floor for a vote. It goes beyond current law, which allows federal authorities to collect and record samples of DNA only from those convicted of crimes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/23/AR2005092301665.html

pros? cons?

who dude...one cool avatar ~:cool:

[Kagemusha]

But what do you guys think about the fact that the bio trace will be on passports in next ten years?After that the bio traces collected from criminals will be just a marginal.

[Geoffrey S]

This kind of stuff always sounds creepy to me. There's no decent way of knowing what these samples will be used for, and there's always the risk of such DNA profiles being used by third parties. If I'm convicted of a crime a government's got the right to record my profile, since it's then a matter of public safety; until that happens they should mind their own business.

[Viking]

Good idea. Personally I`m for taking DNA samples already from birth; from everyone. If you have some DNA from the spot in question you automatically know who the criminal is.


Gelatinous Cube]I personally don't think there is anything wrong with taking DNA samples from criminals. It falls under the same reasons we take Fingerprints; only it's more accurate. I would have no problem using DNA the same way we use Fingerprints.

Exactly, though it`s much is easier to find someones DNA+ plus your DNA tells you with good accuracy what kind of illness you will have in your life, cancer for example. And other very personal details that fingerprints cannot tell you.


This kind of stuff always sounds creepy to me. There's no decent way of knowing what these samples will be used for, and there's always the risk of such DNA profiles being used by third parties. If I'm convicted of a crime a government's got the right to record my profile, since it's then a matter of public safety; until that happens they should mind their own business.

There`s a risk for everything. But if only police gets access to this database and only after crimes I think your data is relatively safe.

[Ironside]

You know what I find funny about the whole privacy question?

The Left blames the Right and the Right blames the Left. In reality, it's government versus society, regardless of political leanings.

It's actually more of a society vs the people thing. Some private companies would love to get your private information. More focused comercials and better checking on who you employ for example.

Until you can actually do some genetical repairation, I'm not that fond of automatic genetical registration, and even with that, it's not that much better.
Registration of criminals is fine, on the entire population, it's not.

[yesdachi]

They also sent a detailed questionaire on our eating habits, education, racial makeup, the whole 9 yards... The reason?
They sell your information to statistic companies. The same way grocery stores with a discount card that they scan when you make purchases, sells your information to statistic companies. My understanding is that it is a lucrative business and pays the providers of the information well (in the case of grocery stores the $ received for the info far outweighs the % off the products they offer. Stores usually only do it for a few years and stop, because by that time the stat co. has gotten all they want and wont pay as much anymore).


On the topic… I don’t have much of a problem with it. Seems like a reasonable next step to fingerprinting. Plus “big brother” already knows what I buy at the store (see above) he might as well have my DNA too ~;) .

[BDC]

I don't see an issue with it. There's nothing at all that anyone can do with detailed information on the everyday lives on 60 million people. I doubt there is even any way to record it properly now, let alone even attempt to gain much useful from it.

Don't see anything wrong with CCTV either.

[Mongoose]

There is nothing to be afraid of. We... errr they are not watching you and you no right to priva..errr paranoia. Shut up and take the pills we sent you before we unleash our horde MIGHTY LAWYERS!

:stare:

Maybe the .org should get in on this. First we should rename it to "The .borg". Instead of moderators, we should have enforcers. Tosa will have acess to control panel that gives him complete control of your computer. it will be able to remove programs, add spyware, and give the .borg patrons painful electric shocks.

The next phase will be to remove limbs and organs rather then take avatars/sigs when you get warnings(which will be replaced by the electric shocks).

All bow down to Total assimilation.borg! :whip:

[PanzerJaeger]

Get over it unless you're willing to do something about it.

The government has so much information on everyone, it really doesnt matter anymore.

All one can do is be a stand-up citizen and vote for politicians who believe in a fair judicial system.

[Strike For The South]

politicians who believe in a fair judicial system.

was this an oxymoron ~:cheers:

I need a new rifle

[drone]

Get over it unless you're willing to do something about it.

The government has so much information on everyone, it really doesnt matter anymore.

All one can do is be a stand-up citizen and vote for politicians who believe in a fair judicial system.
You can always do what this guy did:
http://cryptome.org/freetotravel.htm
http://papersplease.org/gilmore/

When a store asks for my zip code, I give them my work zip code. When a website asks for my birthday, I give them Dec 7, 1941. I've used hjsimpson@aol.com, living in Springfield, VA. The Washington Post thinks I'm female (which probably explains the Neiman Marcus ads I keep seeing on that page ~;) ). It's ridiculous that they ask these questions, so they get ridiculous answers back.

The purchase of a home in the US goes on the public record. Imagine my surprise when every shady mortgage firm known to man started sending me refinance letters in the mail, complete with name, address, and loan amount, within days of closing. Should this be public knowledge? The line between what the government knows about you, and what companies know about you gets blurrier every day, and this is not a good thing.

True, "they" know a lot about you already. It's your job to make sure they don't learn any more than they need. And the more contrary of us like to gum up the works a little, just because. Question authority, before they stop answering to you.

[Aurelian]

"Soylent Green is peeeoople! It's peeeople!!"

Sorry, just had to say that for some reason.

I agree with everybody else that it's a bad idea. I REALLY don't want my DNA on file with the government the way things are going today.

But, hey, let's look on the bright side. Maybe this is all just an evil scheme by MAJESTIC-12 ~:smoking:... you know, the group that negotiates with the aliens. Maybe the government is just collecting our DNA so the grays :alien: won't have to do so much abduction and anal probing! :shocked2:

Just think, someday your DNA could be part of some human/alien hybrid out in space! :freak:

That wouldn't be so bad? Right?

Fewer anal probes.

[_Martyr_]

Fewer anal probes.

Now thats as good of campaign moto as I've ever heard! ~D

[Papewaio]

Not if you are running for Council in San Fran or Sydney.

:indian_chief: :policeman: :builder: :helmet: :biker:

[AntiochusIII]

Had "Big Brother" only wants to keep an eye on you, and make it easier to catch criminals among you, the practice will be, at best, a nuisance and only a possibility of bad things.

BUT, considering how the **** the bloody ad companies (in the internet, through the mail, through the phone, bah! It'll soon go telepathic!) get your information given ONLY to your government, your DNA, the blueprints of yourself, are NOT safe in the hands of the government. This practice is going a slap in the face of any real freedom. Or even a kick between the legs. Imagine private profit-seeking companies, selfish companies like today, get their hands on, literally, you. Horrid.

Edit: wow, soly, that's a really unique...er...Jihadist you have there.

[_Martyr_]

Not if you are running for Council in San Fran or Sydney.

:indian_chief: :policeman: :builder: :helmet: :biker:

True... a special case though!

I like the smilies! ~D

[GonZ]

I don't have a problem with CCTV here in England (speed cameras are a different matter grrr). CCTV can help catch criminals or at least identify them like the London suicide attacks.

However they don't seem to do much to deter drunken yobbishness and street crime which if reports are to be believed are at epidemic proportions here.

DNA sampling - fine for criminals convicted of serious crimes. If you're an honest citizen then there's just no need for it.

Sadly I fear it's only a matter of time before we're all chipped and tracked from satellite!

[Ja'chyra]

CCTV here is mostly limited to town centres and outside depatment stores/garages that sort of thing and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the proposed ID cards and bio passports, especially as they are going to charge us for the priviledge, we also cancelled our plans to go to the US on holiday, because of the fingerprinting at the airport, just on principle.