Let me beat the Left to the punch...

[Don Corleone]

William Bennet is a disgrace. Here is he is, our former Secretary of Education, showing his ass to all of America. During a debate on crime, a caller on Bennet's radio show suggested that higher abortion rates are leading to less crime. Bennet's answer? (No offense intended to anyone...)


You could abort every last black baby and you'd still have crime.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/30/D8CUKRH04.html

I don't care what he meant by that. I don't want anyone that categorically stupid on the radio. I've heard Klansmen with more wit and decorum then this.... The only defense I've heard is "Oh yeah, well you should hear what Charlie Rangell said last week..." (For the record, Charlie Rangell, D-NY said on the House floor that Bush is the Bull Shannon of today's day and age, Bull Shannon of course being the police chief that used dogs and firehoses to attack Rev. King). I don't care how bad Rangell's speech is, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, justifies this sort of thing. It's intolerable. So, before my worthy adverseries on the left ask about the silence, let me encourage conservatives of all ilk to condemn this statement.

Now, since I've done this, I imagine the response will have to shift to "And George Bush should resign too". Well, let's put an end to that right now. This was one buffoon who made a wildly inappropriate (racist, insensitive and pro-abortion for that matter) comment. Bush was out in front of the pack condemning it this morning.

Edit: Erh, Bull Connor. Bull Shannon was the bailiff on the sitcom 'Night Court'.

[Redleg]

Well Bennet seems to have gotten beat up over this comment - and justly so in my opinion by especially by Colmes of Fox News. Happen to catch Colmes on my way home from work late at night on talk radio talking about Mr. Bennets comment. When I heard the sound bite in context - I was completely shock that someone stated that, what a ****** moron Bennet was for making such a ridiculous comment.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Condemned! What a moronic, stupid, ignorant thing to say.

Crazed Rabbit

[ah_dut]

The man is clearly an idiot who cannot keep his mouth shut...bad combination

[Big_John]

this p.o.s. went to my alma mater.... :shame:

[Aurelian]

Ouch. Agreed. Foot in mouth time for Mr. Bennett.

Here's the transcript from Media Matters:

From the September 28 broadcast of Salem Radio Network's Bill Bennett's Morning in America:

CALLER: I noticed the national media, you know, they talk a lot about the loss of revenue, or the inability of the government to fund Social Security, and I was curious, and I've read articles in recent months here, that the abortions that have happened since Roe v. Wade, the lost revenue from the people who have been aborted in the last 30-something years, could fund Social Security as we know it today. And the media just doesn't -- never touches this at all.

BENNETT: Assuming they're all productive citizens?

CALLER: Assuming that they are. Even if only a portion of them were, it would be an enormous amount of revenue.

BENNETT: Maybe, maybe, but we don't know what the costs would be, too. I think as -- abortion disproportionately occur among single women? No.

CALLER: I don't know the exact statistics, but quite a bit are, yeah.

BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.


Wow. That was a poorly turned phrase. He needs a 60 minute timeout on the "naughty spot" so he can think about what he said.

I just made a "Super Nanny" reference. ~D

[drone]

Before you use words like "moron" and "idiot" to describe Bennett, think for a second. He has a PhD from the University of Texas, and a law degree from Harvard. The man is not stupid. He may be (or is), however, rascist and out of touch. Calling him an idiot somewhat excuses him. For this, there can be no excuse.

[Don Corleone]

You have a very good point Drone. Simple mean ignorance is not the order of the day here. Bennet allowed a glimpse behind the curtain.

[Red Harvest]

Bush was out in front of the pack condemning it this morning.
Considering I was hearing comments on this yesterday when Democrats were slamming it, and Bush spoke about it this morning, I get tickled by the "front of the pack" comment. Joining or following the pack would be more apt.

It was a fairly racist comment, although repugnant in several other ways as well (and a particularly odd twist is in its worship of the almighty dollar.) If you dissect it looking only at the basic assertion it does illlustrate a problem some have of separating environment, etc. from race. What it appears he was getting at is the concept of children born into families that have a higher statistical probability of being incarcerated/convicted. So then he makes the leap to that being black and using a racist generalization. Sad to say, I've seen others make the same leap here recently. That failure is common across the political spectrum. Ironically, the international definition of racism isn't even accurate because it is so broad as to be unusable.

[PanzerJaeger]

You could abort every last black baby and you'd still have crime.

Is that not a true statement? :hide:

[drone]

Bennet allowed a glimpse behind the curtain.Sums it up nicely. I tried to think of way to phrase hidden rascism, but could come up with something that sounded right.

Ah, the speed of the internet. This fiasco is already in his Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bennett
I really like the bottom entry, as a grad student he went out on a blind date with Janis Joplin.:dizzy2:

[Louis VI the Fat]

It is true statistically that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could abort every black baby in the US and the crime rate would go down.

If you accept the fact that there is a higher crime rate amongst Afro-Americans than average, then, leaving other variables out of the equation, it is true by sheer extrapolation. Call it racist all you want.
I do think it shows a poor grasp of sociological and statistical reality if you believe that you can leave all other other variables out of the equation. In practice, it takes a racist leap of thought to not see this.

It is also true that aborting all black babies would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do. Now if only Bennet just tried to show the ridiculousness of these far-out, far-reaching, extensive extrapolations there wouldn't be a problem. Let's not forget that the first one showing his ass to all of America was that macro-economically challenged caller.

Where Bennet get's in trouble though, is when one deconstructs his answer. I can think of a thousand neutral, non-offensive examples that would've immediately revealed the mistaken train of thought in the assertion from that caller that 'the abortions that have happened since Roe v. Wade, the lost revenue from the people who have been aborted in the last 30-something years, could fund Social Security as we know it today'.

What Bennet probably revealed instead, was his racial mindset. That 'probably' meaning that there is the possibility that he came up with his example because the caller reminded him of the sort of silly extrapolations some statistically challenged racists make. That still doesn't explain why, when trying to show that that caller's statement is false, he comes up with an example he thinks is true, but is merely impossible to pull off.

But, even when applyin the 'principle of charity' and assuming that he was only trying to counter one silly extrapolation with another, he should've realized that a statement like his is offensive in the extreme.

So there are three layers of possible racism in Bennets statement. Firstly, by regarding the statement that 'blacks commit more crime' is inherently racist. If it is, then Bennet is a racist. I don't think it is.
Then there's the 'glimpse behind the curtain' theory, that Bennet unwillingly revealed a racist mindset. I think he did, but that's only based on circumstantial evidence.
Lastly, that only a racially insensitive fool would even bring up an offensive example like his, whatever his intentions with it may have been.

[Red Harvest]

So there are three layers of possible racism in Bennets statement. Firstly, by regarding the statement that 'blacks commit more crime' is inherently racist. If it is, then Bennet is a racist. I don't think it is.
Yes, this is where he got himself into trouble in a hurry. This same sort of logic that he was applying could and was applied to Irish and other immigrants to the U.S. at various times in our past. It is one of those cases where the root problem is not race, but circumstance and the culture that developed around it. Take someone out of a destructive environment early, and things are different.

There are a lot of people who have a sense of superiority/greater self worth because they were born with more than the next person. That is the "glimpse behind the curtain." Sometimes it is racist, other times it is more caste like, sometimes it is both. I've had coworkers who thought the inherent value of manual laborers was very little, and didn't really care if a manual laborer could live off their wages. I pointed out to one of these professionals with a bad back, that he had no more worth as a human being than the lowliest manual laborer, and that if I needed a ditch dug, he (with the bad back) was utterly worthless to me from a business enterprise standpoint. The truth is we need both, but one is in market excess.

[rasoforos]

He [Bennet] is a Fox News contributor and chairman of "Americans for Victory over Terrorism," which his Web site calls "a project dedicated to sustaining and strengthening public opinion as the war on terrorism moves forward.


Now why doesnt this surprise me at all?

I suppose his idea of wining the 'war on terror' is to prevent every muslim baby from being born?

BTW How did known republicans react to these comments?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, Pres. Bush quickly condemned it, as have the Don (obviously), I, and a number of other conservatives here at the Org.

Crazed Rabbit

[PanzerJaeger]

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

Thank you Aurelian. Whats wrong with that statement? Its the truth. ~:confused:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Talk about hypocrisy. Are you people serious? Don Im really suprised at you and some of the other conservatives here falling oforthis BS. Its really funny how liberals use the fact that since arbprtion has been legalised violent crime has also gone down and that abortion is one of the reasons. These comments of his are taken out of context. He was answering the claim that abortion reduces crime. He said this is so but it is irrehensible. You could asy aborting all babies would reduce the crime level and it would be true. That doesnt mean you support such an action. We all know Bennetts stance on abortion. How about some of you reading all of what he said instead of what the press decided to say.

Your all to hung up on PC BS.

Whats wrong with what he said. Liberals use it to back abortion . He uses it to show how silly thus claim is.

What part of this did you all miss


That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

[solypsist]

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/bennett-200509280006.mp3

listen to the man himself say it, and decide the context.

but to partially agree with Gawain's post, Bennet noted that he did not intend his comments to be racist. As shown by the high media profile of Bennett's comments, and the strong reactions of several other politicians and public figures, the broader discussion of the correlation, if any, between crime and the rate of abortions in the United States remains a highly controversial subject. while I disagree with Bennet's conservative record, there is no prior history of racism, which is almost always evident in situations like these when differentiating between racism and poor judgement.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I think the thing that did it was his stipulating that the babies aborted be black. He made no reference to income or socio-economic status, as though he thought that blacks are assumed to all be criminals who haven't been caught. A less ridiculable statement might have gone "you could abort every last baby who's parentage indicates a very high likelihood of a criminal future, but you'd still have crime."

Crazed Rabbit

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think the thing that did it was his stipulating that the babies aborted be black.

His caller brought up the race issue not he.

[Navaros]

his comment was made solely to point out how ludicrous the pro-murdering-babies advocates are

his comment is less ludicrous then their's, because at least he had a legitimate point behind his comment (the point being, pointing out their ludicrousity) whereas the pro-murdering-babies advocates' only point is that they rejoice in the slaughter of human babies

[Redleg]

His caller brought up the race issue not he.

However Bennet used the race with his response. Right wrong or indifferent the statement in the context that he used it was wrong. The best take on the statement is Colmes as far as I can tell.

Judging the future on the un-born. A ridiculous statement and not one worth defending, Bennet deserves all the criticism that he is getting for making such a statement,

[A.Saturnus]

Gawain, Louis wrote an exhaustive, comprehensive eplanation of the issue. To develope a serious discussion please direct your disagreement on that and explain which parts of his reasoning you don´t follow. Please don´t just do as if it doesn´t exist.

[ICantSpellDawg]

William Bennet is a disgrace. Here is he is, our former Secretary of Education, showing his ass to all of America. During a debate on crime, a caller on Bennet's radio show suggested that higher abortion rates are leading to less crime. Bennet's answer? (No offense intended to anyone...)


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/30/D8CUKRH04.html

I don't care what he meant by that. I don't want anyone that categorically stupid on the radio. I've heard Klansmen with more wit and decorum then this.... The only defense I've heard is "Oh yeah, well you should hear what Charlie Rangell said last week..." (For the record, Charlie Rangell, D-NY said on the House floor that Bush is the Bull Shannon of today's day and age, Bull Shannon of course being the police chief that used dogs and firehoses to attack Rev. King). I don't care how bad Rangell's speech is, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, justifies this sort of thing. It's intolerable. So, before my worthy adverseries on the left ask about the silence, let me encourage conservatives of all ilk to condemn this statement.

Now, since I've done this, I imagine the response will have to shift to "And George Bush should resign too". Well, let's put an end to that right now. This was one buffoon who made a wildly inappropriate (racist, insensitive and pro-abortion for that matter) comment. Bush was out in front of the pack condemning it this morning.

Edit: Erh, Bull Connor. Bull Shannon was the bailiff on the sitcom 'Night Court'.


Look into this a bit more deeply. I dont feel that what he said was bad at all, unless humans are supposed to communicate like robots. His quote was taken way out of context. The text that Aurelian and Panzerjager quoted was more full and comprehensive in regards towhat Bennet actually meant. I will look into past comments to see if he holds any well-rooted racial prejudicies.

Once, I told a bBack-Hispanic girl to clean up after a party so that i could take her friend to another party. As soon as i said that i wanted to put my foot in my mouth because I wasnt thinking color when I said that. It seems as though Bennet was attempting to defend the culling of black children in the name of crime prevention. Margaret Sanger of planned parenthood admitted to targetting the black population with affordable abortions and birth control explicitly to limit their population growth. I totally disagree with her here yet we never hear about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics

[rasoforos]

The length some people will go, and the amount of logic abuse it takes them, to support what a republican said...


...is there ANYTHING in the world that you wouldnt justify?...

...very dishonourable :embarassed:

[Soulforged]

That doesn't appear to be a left statement...but anyway wheter it be left or rights, this is one of the most stupid things i've ever heard.

[Byzantine Prince]

I think he was speaking from a purely statistical point of view not a social or even humane one. What makes it appauling, is that he tries to portray his viewpoint with wrong reasoning. For example if the hypothesis is that if every black baby was aborted crime would go down, that clearly insinuates a forced spree of abortions based only on race, therefore no different from genocide. It's Hitler saying that if every jewish person was aborted then Germans would have more money, it's true, but it's also very very wrong.

[A.Saturnus]

If you aborted all babies, crime would drop even more. Why didn´t he say that?

[solypsist]

it seems the only one in here who doesn't think it was stupid is PJ. which says volumes about the guy.



That doesn't appear to be a left statement...but anyway wheter it be left or rights, this is one of the most stupid things i've ever heard.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I don't see the problem, besides for reverse-rascist AA Hatemongers twisting meanings...again. And the General Public (i.e. Yall) falling for it...again.
EDIT: Removed some questionable material.

[PanzerJaeger]

it seems the only one in here who doesn't think it was stupid is PJ. which says volumes about the guy.

And you're a moderator? Ive been warned for such statements. Of course solypsist is untouchable, so what are you going to do? :shrug:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

And you're a moderator? Ive been warned for such statements. Of course solypsist is untouchable, so what are you going to do? :shrug:
Don't worry, I'm here.:bow:

[Red Harvest]

And you're a moderator? Ive been warned for such statements. Of course solypsist is untouchable, so what are you going to do? :shrug:

I think "the guy" was referring to Bennett, not you. PJ, you take up some really extreme views and it is pretty common to hear you defend what just about anyone else here considers indefensible.

[Soulforged]

After all, if you did abort all the black babies, crime would go down. But as Bennet himself said, that would be a morally reprehensible thing to do.
This is a joke right?~:confused:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

This is a joke right?~:confused:
Probably, but it is true. Just as if you aborted all White babies, crime would go down. Or all Hispanic babies. Or all Asian Babies. See the drift?

It's a stupid argument for abortion, and that's all Mr. Whatshisnuts was trying to point out.

[Productivity]

Probably, but it is true. Just as if you aborted all White babies, crime would go down. Or all Hispanic babies. Or all Asian Babies. See the drift?

You're talking about crime. He's talking about crime rates. Aborting all white babies would make crime rates go up, in a completely abstract world:no: :embarassed:

[Geoffrey S]

It was a stupid comment. Frankly, why of all the possible answers he could have given did he have to state that crime would go down if all black babies were aborted? That he followed on to state that his previous comment was impossible to pull off and morally reprehensible doesn't excuse his lumping together of black people and criminals.

[Steppe Merc]

I don't see the problem, besides for reverse-rascist AA Hatemongers twisting meanings...again. And the General Public (i.e. Yall) falling for it...again.
EDIT: Removed some questionable material.
For god's sake, there is no such thing as reverse racism. There is just racism. Racism is not just white against black. So there is no reverse racism, because racism doesn't go one way or another against one color against another.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

For god's sake, there is no such thing as reverse racism. There is just racism. Racism is not just white against black. So there is no reverse racism, because racism doesn't go one way or another against one color against another.
Hrm...not according to the ACLU, NAACP, and other Affirmative Action Groups. Also, Affirmative Action is called Reverse Discrimination/Rascism in just about every nation other than the US.

[Steppe Merc]

Hrm...not according to the ACLU, NAACP, and other Affirmative Action Groups. Also, Affirmative Action is called Reverse Discrimination/Rascism in just about every nation other than the US.
Well then they are fools. Racism is an age old problem, and isn't just white verus black. Heck, it isn't always based on color. To say that there is reverse racism is claiming that only whites are racist, and that is insane, because it ignores many other racial problems that exist.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Well then they are fools. Racism is an age old problem, and isn't just white verus black. Heck, it isn't always based on color. To say that there is reverse racism is claiming that only whites are racist, and that is insane, because it ignores many other racial problems that exist.
You are a man after my own heart, Steppe.~:)

[The Stranger]

from what i learned...RACISM IS DIFFERENT TREATMENT IN THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES...thats roughly...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

it seems the only one in here who doesn't think it was stupid is PJ. which says volumes about the guy.

Not only is this a personal attack but a lie. I see nothing wrong with what he said and me and Panzer are not the only ones.


Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

After all, if you did abort all the black babies, crime would go down. But as Bennet himself said, that would be a morally reprehensible thing to do.

I wonder if GC got a warning for this? I would take it that GC agrees with Bennet whole heartedly.


If you aborted all babies, crime would drop even more. Why didn´t he say that?

Later on he did.

Its bad when PC becomes so powerful you cannot tell the truth without being attacked.

[Soulforged]

[QUOTE=Kaiser of Arabia]Probably, but it is true. Just as if you aborted all White babies, crime would go down. Or all Hispanic babies. Or all Asian Babies. See the drift?
[QUOTE]But you still keep defending that logic. + Abortion = - crime? How is that? It doesn't excuse the coment of that stupid person, but even taking it from your point of view, do you really believe it? Also is he talking about forced abortion, because that will make his argument even more idiotic, even if he didn't mean it as a racial attack, it's a racial attack. The crime can go down without any abortion, and abortion only means, in the way that you put it, the end of civilization.

PS: Mods what's happening with my posts? The quotes don't function as they should.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But you still keep defending that logic. + Abortion = - crime? How is that? It doesn't excuse the coment of that stupid person, but even taking it from your point of view, do you really believe it?
He didnt say that. The book he was quoting did. He said later that he didnt even believe that to be true. Yet people here have supported abortion on the grounds that it reduces crime and never a word was siad about it. He is saying such a thing is abhorent even if it were true. Certainly if we abortedf all bthe crime rate would not only go down but dissappear all together.


Also is he talking about forced abortion, because that will make his argument even more idiotic, even if he didn't mean it as a racial attack, it's a racial attack. The crime can go down without any abortion, and abortion only means, in the way that you put it, the end of civilization.

The man is a fierce ANTI ABORTIONIST. He is against abortion for any reason. My how people can twist anothers words around. Its the left that says abortion is lowering the crime rate not those of us on the right. He and we say that even if it did its an unacceptable means .

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Not only is this a personal attack but a lie. I see nothing wrong with what he said and me and Panzer are not the only ones.


Don't forget me.

[Geoffrey S]

Who could possibly forget you, Kaiser? ~;)

[Soulforged]

He didnt say that. The book he was quoting did. He said later that he didnt even believe that to be true. Yet people here have supported abortion on the grounds that it reduces crime and never a word was siad about it. He is saying such a thing is abhorent even if it were true. Certainly if we abortedf all bthe crime rate would not only go down but dissappear all together.Representing it as a possibility and expressing it is idiotic either way. Besides I was talking about the logic of GC, not Bennet's.

The man is a fierce ANTI ABORTIONIST. He is against abortion for any reason. My how people can twist anothers words around. Its the left that says abortion is lowering the crime rate not those of us on the right. He and we say that even if it did its an unacceptable means . I didn't twist words, I don't even know how all this started, I was talking about the perspective of some people here. About forced abortions, again even mentioning the subject is stupid, appling it will be criminal. And the left on your country is giving that kind of arguments in favour of abortion? WOW they're really falling apart, and desperate. There's far better arguments for abortion than this stupidity.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Representing it as a possibility and expressing it is idiotic either way. Besides I was talking about the logic of GC, not Bennet's.


So then your problem is ewith the author of the book he was quoting and not with Bennet?


didn't twist words, I don't even know how all this started, I was talking about the perspective of some people here. About forced abortions,

No one has mentioned forced abortions other than yourself.


And the left on your country is giving that kind of arguments in favour of abortion?

It not only this country, In fact many here on these very boards have quoted the same book as Bennet did.

[Ironside]

Yet people here have supported abortion on the grounds that it reduces crime and never a word was siad about it.

Link please. I do remember a thread mentioning it, but never seen it used as a defense for abortion on this forum.

It was a very poorly formed answer by Bennet. And I still not see were the caller brought forward the race issue in the transcript Aurelian posted.

[Soulforged]

So then your problem is ewith the author of the book he was quoting and not with Bennet?My problem is with the statement on itself, wich makes the person an idiot.

No one has mentioned forced abortions other than yourself.It was a question...if you didn't notice it. :rolleyes:

[Byzantine Prince]

This thread has degenerated nicely.~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

My problem is with the statement on itself, wich makes the person an idiot.


Bennets or the author of the book he was quoting?


It was a very poorly formed answer by Bennet. And I still not see were the caller brought forward the race issue in the transcript Aurelian posted.

Ok lets give you that. Would he have gotten the same reaction if he had said aborting every white baby would reduce crime? Again its the PC fact that blacks were mentioned that bothers you.

Besides that he says


BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know

Right off he says he dosent believe abortion reduces crime. He then goes on to say.


But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.


He saying this is a ridiculous moronic thing to say from the start. Again if he had said white people or all babies would that have made you happy?

Theres little doubt that more abortions equals less people so of course less people equals less criminals. Maybe he mentioned blacks because they are affected more than any other group in the US by abortion.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Gawain, maybe he mentioned Blacks because they are disproportionately more likely to commit or be the victim of a crime in the U.S.A. than any other major ethnic group.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain, maybe he mentioned Blacks because they are disproportionately more likely to commit or be the victim of a crime in the U.S.A. than any other major ethnic group.

Exactly what I meant . Well that and the fact they their babies are also the most likely to be aborted.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

fair play

~:cheers:

[Soulforged]

Bennets or the author of the book he was quoting?
Bennet's of course. The right answer would have been that's just ridicolous and I'm not going to make opinions over that.

[Ironside]

But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce wars, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could sterilize every American in the world, and the amounts of wars would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but the amounts of wars would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

[Ironside]

Either you will take this above statement as #### and ignore it. Or you will be insulted, and certainly if you feel it's true, care about it and aren't exactly happy about it. Known as touchy subject. And well it is insulting to the rest too, as atleast I get the feeling that I want to say that atleast I'm not to blame for that statistics, if I'm part of the group hit by the statement.

So yes I wouldn't have a problem with the statement on aborting all the white, as I know it's a lie.
The all babies would have worked best in this case.

And he was thinking about crime as he talks about crime rate not crime in general. Nothing about the abortion rates.

And he knew that it was stupid too. Why would he be trying to reduce what he was saying so much otherwise?

[The Stranger]

This thread has degenerated nicely.~D

oooh i like that tone ~D

[Paul Peru]

My main point isn't this: If he'd said poor instead of black it would still have been valid, misantropical and unappealing. Only it would not have been racist.

I just wanted to mention that the ever-so-humane Scandinavian countries, or at least pioneering Sweden and imitator Norway took this line of reasoning to its natural consequence in the first half of the previous century. Eugenics were are the rage, and gypsies, handicapped (* challenged) and other deemed to be inferior or problematic were sterilized by force and kids were abducted by the government for no good reason to get them away from what was thought to be bad influences.

Especially Sweden has gone to great lengths to forget about this, so the facts are mostly remembered by those of a brown and nauseating inclination, who would like to go down that road again.

[Don Corleone]

I believe Bennet's caller, and then subesequently Bennet's train of thought was that as blacks commit crimes at a higher than average rate, removing them from the gene pool would hypothetically lower crime.

First, I would argue that is most likely untrue. After this purge where all black babies are aborted, another group would occupy the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder and they would in turn commit a higher percentage of crime. This is not to say that is the only strata in the spectrum occupy, but there is a disproportionate number of blacks in the lower strata and surprise, surprise, blacks have a higher crime rate. I believe they have crime in Iceland, one of the most genetically pure places on the planet and no African populations, so it's nothing endemic to peoples of African descent.

Second, suppose it were true. It shows a fundamental and callous disregard for your fellow man to make such a statement. I am struggling to make a parallel statement, and I'm finding that even by qualifying it, I cannot bring myself to dengirate an entire people this way. Let me ask you Gawain, PJ... you're a young hardworking black man who's never committed a crime in your life. On the radio, you hear the former Secretary of Education make the statement "well, if we could just kill all the black people, our crime rate would go down. But of course *sigh*, we can't do that". I find such a statement abominable and in my mind, it no human would make it against anyone he truly perceived as human.

Next, if you re-read my original post, this statement shows an arrogance and a stupidity that boggle the mind. Did he really think he was going to be able to say something like that and say "well, I didn't mean it to be racist". It shows the man, a career politician, doesn't know his craft anywhere near well enough to be allowed in front of a microphone. I have spent most of my life trying to convince people from the middle and the left that most conservatives are not racist. And then Bennet comes along and makes a statement like that. Politics is the game of perception. If Bennet hadn't made that jump in logic by now, he never will.

Finally, I viewed his comments as incredibly hypocritical, and it really makes me question the reasons for his stance on abortion. If he found abortion 1/10th as detestable as I do, he would not be performing mental exercises like aborting an entire population out of existence. This might come as a shock to you, but a lot of black people have a latent fear that this is exactly what white America wants to do. I don't care what kind of disclaimer he tacked onto the end. That's a disgusting and sad game, used as a cheap argument by the weak minded. "America deserved to get bombed in Pearl Harbor, and it was a shame it didn't cause more damage. But of course, the Japanese were wrong not to announce it ahead of time". Hmm, did my second statement take any of the sting out of my first?

[Divinus Arma]

Rush Limbaugh says he should be applauded.

Why?

Because he is speaking the truth.

I'm not racist, but Bennet is right isn't he? Abort every black baby and crime will go down.

And like he said: It is ridiculous and immoral and unconscionable.

Sounds about right to me but noone has the balls to say it.

Don you sucked the big politically-correct weiner on this one buddy.

[Ironside]

Rush Limbaugh says he should be applauded.

Why?

Because he is speaking the truth.

I'm not racist, but Bennet is right isn't he? Abort every black baby and crime will go down.

And like he said: It is ridiculous and immoral and unconscionable.

Sounds about right to me but noone has the balls to say it.

Don you sucked the big politically-correct weiner on this one buddy.

You normally call fat people fat-ass?

And he does in practice say that if you perform etnic clensing then you would reduce a problem. It is ridiculous and immoral and unconscionable, but it would still reduce the problem.

There's a difference between common PC and what you call the PC crowd.

The problem with his statement haven't to do with if he's right or wrong (well actually it does, because AFAIK it has truth in it, and that's what makes it much worse (but as Don Carleone mentioned, it would probably not survive the real world )), but in the way he presented it.

[Don Corleone]

Rush Limbaugh says he should be applauded.

Why?

Because he is speaking the truth.

I'm not racist, but Bennet is right isn't he? Abort every black baby and crime will go down.

And like he said: It is ridiculous and immoral and unconscionable.

Sounds about right to me but noone has the balls to say it.

Don you sucked the big politically-correct weiner on this one buddy.

I've tried for an hour to come up with a response that wouldn't escalate things, and frankly, I'm at a loss. This is one of those fundamental questions upon which we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I find abortion abhorent and would never recommend using it against a large group of people, esepecially a specific group. You and Bennet apparently think it's okay, as long as it's black people that are at the other end of the knife. Oh wait, it's your morality that keeps you in check.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

If we abort every baby, we can wipe out all crime in less than 100 years.


Seamus

P.S. Yes, the statement is intended to be ironic, not a serious statement of position.

[Xiahou]

If we abort every baby, we can wipe out all crime in less than 100 years.


SeamusYou fiend!

[Don Corleone]

If Bennet said what Seamus did, the hyperbole he claims he was trying to make would have been much more evident.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I believe Bennet's caller, and then subesequently Bennet's train of thought was that as blacks commit crimes at a higher than average rate, removing them from the gene pool would hypothetically lower crime.

First, I would argue that is most likely untrue.

Well then go back and listen to him again Your so wrong. He said exactly what you are saying. He started out saying that ge didnt belive that aborting all black babies would not lower crime but that even f it did it would be morally irreprehrnsible. Im arfraid Div is correct here.


Don you sucked the big politically-correct weiner on this one buddy.

Sorry mate.

Heres further proof of it.


I find abortion abhorent and would never recommend using it against a large group of people, esepecially a specific group. You and Bennet apparently think it's okay, as long as it's black people that are at the other end of the knife.


How in hell do you get that from what he said and I and others have said?


If Bennet said what Seamus did, the hyperbole he claims he was trying to make would have been much more evident.

He did say that later on. Again thats not the whole transcriipt. Lets review. He said in a recent book it was claimed abortion brought down crime. He then says I dont believe that to be true but lets say aborting every black child would reduce crime. It still would not be an acceptable way of doing so as it is morally ireprehensoble. Now please tell me whats wrong with that or how it differs with the way you feel?

[Don Corleone]

Gawain, I have nothing further to say to you or Divinus while the two of you insist on insinuating that I'm performing a homosexual act.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain, I have nothing further to say to you or Divinus while the two of you insist on insinuating that I'm performing a homosexual act.


Only metaphoricaly.~D Get your act together in its usual corrrect manner.~;) And im not talking politically correct.

[Redleg]

Some have gone to far in defending Bennett's poor choice of words.

Lets see what others have to say about his word use.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006


Bennett's remark was apparently inspired by the claim that legalized abortion has reduced crime rates, which was posited in the book Freakonomics (William Morrow, May 2005) by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner. But Levitt and Dubner argued that aborted fetuses would have been more likely to grow up poor and in single-parent or teenage-parent households and therefore more likely to commit crimes; they did not put forth Bennett's race-based argument.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/


This is precisely the kind of insensitive, hurtful and ignorant rhetoric that Americans have grown tired of," said Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan told reporters on Friday that President Bush "believes the comments were not appropriate."



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9535204


The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

“The president believes the comments were not appropriate,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Bennett's remark was apparently inspired by the claim that legalized abortion has reduced crime rates, which was posited in the book Freakonomics (William Morrow, May 2005) by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner. But Levitt and Dubner argued that aborted fetuses would have been more likely to grow up poor and in single-parent or teenage-parent households and therefore more likely to commit crimes; they did not put forth Bennett's race-based argument.

And who proportionaly commits the most crime in the US and who proportioanly has their babies aborted most often? They claim aborting the poor or children or children of single parent homes reduces the crime rate. Yet I dont hear any stink over that. In fact ive heard here many make the case your doing the kids a favor.Again its only because he said the word BLACK that has people screaming.


This is precisely the kind of insensitive, hurtful and ignorant rhetoric that Americans have grown tired of," said Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan told reporters on Friday that President Bush "believes the comments were not appropriate."

[/QUOTE

Well then they can join you and Don in sucking the big PC pickle.

[QUOTE]The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.


Even though he said its not true? This only further illustratews that PC has gotten way out of hand. Its even bit you and Don.


“The president believes the comments were not appropriate,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Well with all the heat Bennet got gor the statements what did you expect? The president stands by Bennets remarks?

[Kralizec]

While probably not intended to be racist (he was basicly saying that aborting all babies of a population that commits more crime per capita will reduce crime from a relative view), Bennet was an idiot to say such a thing. If someone said that committing genocide against my culture was an effective, albeit not very nice solution to a certain problem, I'd be pissed.

Also it's pretty foul to suggest abortion as a means against poverty and crime. You help the poor by giving them education and fair chances on the labour market, not by killing their offspring. Jeez.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

While probably not intended to be racist (he was basicly saying that aborting all babies of a population that commits more crime per capita will reduce crime from a relative view), Bennet was an idiot to say such a thing.

What part of I dont believe this is true dont you people understand. He was giving an anaology. Your only gripe is that he chose to use the word black. He did so maybe because again propotionaly the majority of crime and abotions happens to blacks. But he prefaced it with I dont think this is true. He was giving an example and said even if he were wrong it it DID reduce crime it STILL is irrerehesible. Only someone looking for an excuse to attack the man or who has been sucked into the PC world could find fault with what he said,


Also it's pretty foul to suggest abortion as a means against poverty and crime. You help the poor by giving them education and fair chances on the labour market, not by killing their offspring. Jeez.

Again he never said that the book did that he was dissagreeing with. Yet again no attack upon the authors of this book either here nor in the press.No liberal bias my a$$

[Kralizec]

Ahem.


BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

Or, if you still don't get it.


But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.

I did say that the man probably didn't have racist sentiments making that statement, but he shouldn't have said it. It's grossly insensitive and someone stupid enough to burn his fingers like this shouldn't be in politics.
Again: if someone said that committing genocide against my culture was an effective, albeit not very nice solution to a certain problem, I'd be pissed.


Also it's pretty foul to suggest abortion as a means against poverty and crime. You help the poor by giving them education and fair chances on the labour market, not by killing their offspring. Jeez.

That was an slightly OT remark, I know it's not what Bennet said.

[Redleg]

And who proportionaly commits the most crime in the US and who proportioanly has their babies aborted most often? They claim aborting the poor or children or children of single parent homes reduces the crime rate. Yet I dont hear any stink over that. In fact ive heard here many make the case your doing the kids a favor.Again its only because he said the word BLACK that has people screaming.

Yep - it shows a racial baised in the statement on its face value. Bennett made a mistake in his word use - and doesn't want to admit it.



Well then they can join you and Don in sucking the big PC pickle.


LOL - lets play like grown-ups now. Are we going to degenerate into name-calling because I don't agree with your postion regarding Mr. Bennett. He should of left race out of the discussion - it distracts from the point he actually was trying to make. And that is not Politically correct either - he opened a can of worms that shows how arrogant he truely is.



Even though he said its not true? This only further illustratews that PC has gotten way out of hand. Its even bit you and Don.


And when did he say it was not true? Notice when he, Mr. Bennett started to attempt to explain his statement.



Well with all the heat Bennet got gor the statements what did you expect? The president stands by Bennets remarks?

Not at all - I suspect the President took the comments at face value - just like myself have done. I would not for a second try to defend Mr. Bennetts comments because they on thier face smack of racism - no matter what point he was actually trying to make. I ridicule racist comments - because they show a lack of character for the person that makes them.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And when did he say it was not true? Notice when he, Mr. Bennett started to attempt to explain his statement.


He said it right from the start.


BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know.

Notice its they who support this hypothesis not him. He says he doesnt believe it.

Then comes the contriversial statment.


But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.

This is a true statement. Again he probably picked blacks because they are most affectted by both of these and illustrate the best example of what hes talking about.
If he had said aborting all whites would lower the rate of conservatism you probably wouldnt have heard a word about it.

But he goes even further.


That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do,

So not only did he say he doesnt think its true but that even if it were it would still be unacceptable.

The only thing he agreed with is that abortion, ie reducing the popualation would reduce the amount of crime.

but your crime rate would go down

Of course aborting all white babies would lower total crime more than blacks and if he said that again you would not of heard a wimper. Since blacks commit a disproportional amoutnt of crime aborting their babies would lower the rate .But he doesnt even really say that.


So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.


Only the PC police can find a real problem here.

Again where is the outrage against the authors of the book Freakonomics?

[Redleg]

He said it right from the start.

Speaking of the statistics and study of the book.




Notice its they who support this hypothesis not him. He says he doesnt believe it.

Which Mr. Bennett then begins to engage in hyperbole.



Then comes the contriversial statment.


So why single out blacks? Lets see because possibily Mr. Bennett decides to show his arrogance in stating that its only blacks that committ the majority of crime. Well using Mr Bennetts logic.

If my mother had aborted my older brother - crime statistics for whites would of been one lower - well actually more then that since he has been in and out of jail several times, If my wife had aborted her oldest son - crime statistics for whites would have been lower by several crimes.

Mr. Bennett showed his hoofed mammals rear-end in his arrogant comment that smacks of racism, and you call me buying into the politically correct pickel.



This is a true statement. Again he probably picked blacks because they are most affectted by both of these and illustrate the best example of what hes talking about.

Or maybe Mr. Bennett pick blacks because he decided to be an arrogant hoofed mammals rear-end and show how baised he is toward an racial group.



If he had said aborting all whites would lower the rate of conservatism you probably wouldnt have heard a word about it.


However I would of stated the same thing about him - what an arrogant hoofed mammal's rear-end for making such a racial baised statement.



But he goes even further.


At making an hoofed mammal's rear-end of himself.



So not only did he say he doesnt think its true but that even if it were it would still be unacceptable.


So that is suppose to get him off the pot for his arrogant and racially baised statement?



The only thing he agreed with is that abortion, ie reducing the popualation would reduce the amount of crime.


Thus convicting human beings before they are born - the other issue I have with both the book and his statements.



Of course aborting all white babies would lower total crime more than blacks and if he said that again you would not of heard a wimper. Since blacks commit a disproportional amoutnt of crime aborting their babies would lower the rate .But he doesnt even really say that.


Oh yes he does say it - why do you think the problem with his statement is - its not from made up words that Mr. Bennett alledged to have stated - but what he actually stated.



Only the PC police can find a real problem here.


Nope - Mr Bennett has shown himself to be an arrogant hoofed mammal's rear-end and racially baised wether that was is intent or not with his statements.



Again where is the outrage against the authors of the book Freakonomics?

Bring them on - maybe I will read their book and then become outrage at them for condemning the unborn before they have the chance to become the statistics that they claim. Or just maybe I won't give them a second thought because they are not worth considering in my opinion.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well this issue sorts out the common sense conservatives from the hardcore rightwingers. ~;)


As far as I'm concerned Bush, in a-typical clear and concise phrasing, nailed it:

the comments were not appropriate.

[Redleg]

Well this issue sorts out the common sense conservatives from the hardcore rightwingers. ~;)

Not me - I have common sense? Boy some would be surprised by that comment coming from you. - I am politicially correct walking and sucking the pickel of political correctness.



As far as I'm concerned Bush, in a-typical clear and concise phrasing, nailed it:

Just another time I, 100% agree with Bush.

[Xiahou]

Honestly, I think this is much ado about nothing. If it hadn't been a controversial figure like Bennet that said this, I don't think it would even register a blip on the media radar.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Honestly, I think this is much ado about nothing. If it hadn't been a controversial figure like Bennet that said this, I don't think it would even register a blip on the media radar.


Yup its just another excuse to attack conservatism.


Speaking of the statistics and study of the book.


The basis of which claims abortion lowers crime. Thats what he was saying he doent believe.


Which Mr. Bennett then begins to engage in hyperbole.

Says you ~D He says even if it were true it would be wrong. What more do you want out of the man.


So why single out blacks? Lets see because possibily Mr. Bennett decides to show his arrogance in stating that its only blacks that committ the majority of crime. Well using Mr Bennetts logic.


Because they do commit a proportionaly staggering amount of the crime and of abortions. Im sorry that they are the best example but thats not Bennets fault only the fact that he recognizes it. No where did he say or even infer that blacks conmmit the majority of crime as thats a false statement to begin with .


If my mother had aborted my older brother - crime statistics for whites would of been one lower - well actually more then that since he has been in and out of jail several times, If my wife had aborted her oldest son - crime statistics for whites would have been lower by several crimes

Would he be wrong?


So that is suppose to get him off the pot for his arrogant and racially baised statement?


He never made one.


Oh yes he does say it - why do you think the problem with his statement is - its not from made up words that Mr. Bennett alledged to have stated - but what he actually stated.


Again he said nothing wrong unless your hung up on PC. I guess you cant call a spade a spade nowdays without being attacked.


Nope - Mr Bennett has shown himself to be an arrogant hoofed mammal's rear-end and racially baised wether that was is intent or not with his statements.


Thats your opinion and you are intitled to it. I find the bias on the other foot including your own. Truly shocking.


Bring them on - maybe I will read their book and then become outrage at them for condemning the unborn before they have the chance to become the statistics that they claim. Or just maybe I won't give them a second thought because they are not worth considering in my opinion.

They are the ones claiming aborting the poor lowers crime. Tell me who in the US is proprtionaly the poorest and commits proportionaly the most crime? Dont rack your brain to hard now. Where is everyones outrage at suggesting we should abort the babies of the poor and of single mothers to reduce crime or avoid poverty?

[Redleg]

Yup its just another excuse to attack conservatism.


Not at all - its an examble of baised views based upon race.



The basis of which claims abortion lowers crime. Thats what he was saying he doent believe.


That is only part of what he stated.



Says you ~D He says even if it were true it would be wrong. What more do you want out of the man.


Obviousily he is an hoofed mammal's rear end with his arrogant comment - especially if one engages in that type of hyperbole.



Because they do commit a proportionaly staggering amount of the crime and of abortions. Im sorry that they are the best example but thats not Bennets fault only the fact that he recognizes it. No where did he say or even infer that blacks conmmit the majority of crime as thats a false statement to begin with .

So is the allegory of blacks that he used - its a statement based upon racial baised views condemning a whole race of people before they are even born.




Would he be wrong?


Yes - again he condemns a whole race of people before they are even breathing air.



He never made one.


Sure he did - I recongized it for the racial baised statement that it was when I first heard it. Utter nonsense.



Again he said nothing wrong unless your hung up on PC. I guess you cant call a spade a spade nowdays without being attacked.


Nothing wrong other then condemn a whole race before the individuals are even born. His arguement and your defense of him states that he didn't mean it that way. Well frankly it doesn't matter how he intented it - the statement by itself on its face value is one of racial basis.



Thats your opinion and you are intitled to it. I find the bias on the other foot including your own. Truly shocking.


Well since I have had mandatory training on equal opporinuty and sexual harrassment - his intent means nothing - its the preception of the audience on wether the comments were racist or not. Shall I bring up all the black websites and leaders who are claiming that yes indeed Mr. Bennetts comments smack of racial bias? Its not hard to find - several moderate black leaders are also upset with his comments because it smacks of racial bias on its face value, regardless of his intent or meaning.



They are the ones claiming aborting the poor lowers crime. Tell me who in the US is proprtionaly the poorest and commits proportionaly the most crime? Dont rack your brain to hard now. Where is everyones outrage at suggesting we should abort the babies of the poor and of single mothers to reduce crime or avoid poverty?

If the knuckleheads who wrote the book came near me with their comments I would give them the same what-for for their equally class baised comments - verus racial comments that Mr. Bennett made. Excusing one persons bad behavior because of another persons bad behavior smacks of well political correctness gone wrong - or liberialism gone extremely wrong.

Have you now become a liberial since I am now politicial correct?

[Kralizec]

I think it's quite clear. Let's look at the radio conversation, shall we?



BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know.

Freakonomics launched a theory that one reason crime went down the last decades is the legalisation of abortion. Bennett doesn't agree with this, because "there's to much that you don't know", understandable because there are many other factors involved.
He proceeds to say this:


But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

How many times do I have to repeat this?

[Goofball]

Rush Limbaugh says he should be applauded.

Why?

Because he is speaking the truth.

I'm not racist, but Bennet is right isn't he? Abort every black baby and crime will go down.

And like he said: It is ridiculous and immoral and unconscionable.

Sounds about right to me but noone has the balls to say it.

Don you sucked the big politically-correct weiner on this one buddy.

The Number 1 Rule of Thumb for determining if what you are about to say is a racist comment or not:

If you have to preface your remarks with "I'm not racist, but," then the comment you are about to make is most definitely a racist comment.

And we can see that the rule holds true in this case.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

If you have to preface your remarks with "I'm not racist, but," then the comment you are about to make is most definitely a racist comment.

And we can see that the rule holds true in this case.


Even his opponnets admit the Bennet doesnt have a racist bone in his body. This is total BS. There was nothing racist in his comments. Im truly shocked at Don and Redlegs outlook on this matter.

[Redleg]

Even his opponnets admit the Bennet doesnt have a racist bone in his body. This is total BS. There was nothing racist in his comments. Im truly shocked at Don and Redlegs outlook on this matter.

You should try arguing with me about concealed gun permits then. ~D This conservation is nothing compared to that one.