View Full Version : Beleives vs Science (not another religion thread)
Soulforged
10-01-2005, 00:47
Some time ago here a problem arose between an indian community (of the guaranies) in Misiones and the central government. A child (Julian) of three years suffered from an illness, the doctors couldn't pick up an exact diagnostic, but they made sure that he needed an intervention quickly. On the other side the fathers and the chaman of the community didn't want the child to be treated in any form by the "medicina blanca" (white medicine), they wanted to treat the child with prayers, rituals and herbs. The case was presented before the court and the judge disposed that the child should be treated (by the force if necessary) in the hospital, and following the recommendation of the medics, he should be operated. The child was operated and now he's recovering. But the problem didn't end there (in spanish (http://www.oberaonline.com.ar/portal/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10409), now the director of the hospital doesn't want the child to be returned to the community, several cases like this happened coming from guaranies communities around the zone, so the problem is that if he should return to the community. Notice that the child was saved only because the fathers brought him to a near hospital. So the question is now that: Would it be wise to return the child to his parents when they will treat him with rituals, should any other illness arise? Should we allow the child to return to that place where the life of all humans lasts less than in the city or the mans are more inclined to get ill?
Obviously I'm not trying to talk about this particular case, but in general: Should belief be more important that the human health? I'm talking about any belief.
Louis VI the Fat
10-01-2005, 01:11
Tough one.
My first reaction would be to look at it from an individual perspective. And I would have to wholeheartedly agree with GC.
But there's also an imperialistic side to it that I find it hard to reconcile myself with. 'Should we allow the child to return to that place where the life of all humans lasts less than in the city or the mans are more inclined to get ill?' You are forcing them to adopt a western way of living like this. The last remnants of tenthousand years of native American civilization are destroyed.
Kaiser of Arabia
10-01-2005, 01:20
Why should we care?
Louis VI the Fat
10-01-2005, 01:39
Because they are human beings who suffer, laugh and love just like we do? :balloon2:
Alexander the Pretty Good
10-01-2005, 01:43
I thought we had to respect other cultures.
:rolleyes:
ShadesPanther
10-01-2005, 01:53
I thought we had to respect other cultures.
:rolleyes:
Obviously not when you are right and they are wrong...
Reverend Joe
10-01-2005, 01:58
I do not believe that medical practice should be forced on anybody. However, if a belief system is causing physical harm to a person, such as in this case, it is the job of whoever is concerned to try to convince the person or people that they need to seek a more proven avenue of medical help.
As an example: Let's say that a friend of yours is sick with some sort of parasite. To treat this illness, he is using a traditional 16th century medical elixir, which contains potent levels of mercury. Of course, you should help him- but, physically forcing him to enter a hospital is, by any standard, wrong (except for that of the doctors- although their standard is skewed by how much they are paid.) What you have to do is convince him to voluntarily give up the quicksilver elixirs, so that you do not violate his human rights.
As for not allowing the kid to return, that is worse than forcing medical treatment, by a long shot.
Soulforged
10-01-2005, 03:51
I do not believe that medical practice should be forced on anybody. However, if a belief system is causing physical harm to a person, such as in this case, it is the job of whoever is concerned to try to convince the person or people that they need to seek a more proven avenue of medical help.I agree but the problem is that the person doesn't has a will of his own in this case. Even if he had, in this concret case, our law only considers emancipateds as having "legal" will for saying it in someway. So here it has to be forced presuming the consense of the person.
As an example: Let's say that a friend of yours is sick with some sort of parasite. To treat this illness, he is using a traditional 16th century medical elixir, which contains potent levels of mercury. Of course, you should help him- but, physically forcing him to enter a hospital is, by any standard, wrong (except for that of the doctors- although their standard is skewed by how much they are paid.) What you have to do is convince him to voluntarily give up the quicksilver elixirs, so that you do not violate his human rights.Again I agree, but here the person is a minor.
As for not allowing the kid to return, that is worse than forcing medical treatment, by a long shot.I don't think so. Our government is one of the less imperialist ones, wheter it be for true compromise with the people or for lack of real power. The decision is purely based on legal grounds. In this case, considering that the parents live in argentinian territory, our civil law applies. This means that our canons for patria potestad (the right and obligation of the father over the son- talking on education, breeding, and so) applies to them. In this case it could be considered as a wrong use of this right. In any case, I agree with you, I don't think we can force all communities to simply give up their childs to modern society. The easy way to see it is removing the problem, ie the illness, and see if that way we still want to do it. Besides a decision like this will mean that we've to erase all indian communities because of their customs.
bmolsson
10-01-2005, 04:57
If I am not mistaken, most religions actually embrace medicine......
If I am not mistaken, most religions actually embrace medicine......
Yes, but many also have certain reservations.
Jehova's Witnesses do not want blood or organs. Certain medicines are based on pigs excluding muslims. The list is rather long.
Soulforged
10-01-2005, 05:39
If I am not mistaken, most religions actually embrace medicine......
You're not mistaken, but you said "most". Misiones has 45 communities of guranies, non of them believes in "white medicine".
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