View Full Version : Such a small start, yet so much to conquer.
I need some tips for starting off with very small empires. I really want to play as Ireland in XL mod but I cant get a formidable stack before going bankrupt, and the English always get Wales first which is my only option for easy conquest. I'll take any general small empire advice you got along with XL players' advice who've played Ireland. I'd love to hear from Patron who modded Ireland and seemed to do real well.
I think this is really where the trade restrictions in XL start to not make sense, even though I like them generally. There is just nothing to do as Ireland when all you have is one province of farm income.
Do you even have a ship yet?
If not,how could you even get to Wales. Anyways, I have never played that mod so I don't know if they added a "landbridge" or not.
You have two options
1. Disband all your troops and build on farms and ships for trades.
2. Attack with "hit and run" techniques. What I mean is if you have archers, shoot their line but be very close to the borders of the battlemap. When they advance on your position, withdraw. THIS ONLY WORKS IF YOU HAVE AT LEAST ONE PLACE TO RETREAT TO ON THE MAINLAND, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR TROOPS BECAUSE YOU COULDN"T AFFORD THE RANSOM.
Another method to attack is THROW EVERYTHING BUT YOUR KING on a providence and attack. Use every technique you know to win, its a must. I would do this on the British when they throw everything they have toward France. Or, if you have the ships for transport, attack France if France is winning the British/France war. If you do lose, don't ransom back ANYTHING and persue option #1.
3. Slash and Burn. Do option 2 but don't hold onto anything, just clear out the enemy and burn everything they have BESIDES THE KEEP to the ground. This won't work well later because when you conquer back the territory, it would be nice to have something in it to use. Don't burn the Keep or better yet if its better than a Keep because they take way to long to rebuild.
Do you even have a ship yet?I don't have a current Irish campaign. I've tried several before and failed, wanted to get some advice before I start another new one.
I failed miserably with the Irish as well. Perhaps disbanding all but your RKs, then build their berserker units. High initial cost, but very low upkeep. Slowly build several and a boat, then invade England wherever they're weakest. That's my thought, don't know if it will work.
I played as the Scots and the Armenians and was successful with both by attacking on/near the first turn and not stopping. Ireland seems a little different though.
Ok, I started a new one. Disbanded everyone but a governor Gallowglass and upgraded farms to 80%. I spammed Celtic Warriors and took Scotland by weight of numbers. I then try to take the one below it (Northumberia?). Let me tell you, Celtic Warriors suck. Spearmen and Urban Militia were kicking their ass. The Highland Clansmen didn't do too well either. I guess I will have to spam Gallowglasses.
I only played them the once, but I did pretty well. Without decent GA goals I got bored though and gave up towards the end of the High era with most of Western Europe in my grasp, so it can be done.
Basically you need an extremely quick, aggressive, well-planned offensive, for most of Early. You need the IONA and a foothold on the continent, concentrating on the French holding as you don't want them to be able to roll over the now weakened English.
Fianna Eirreann and Gallow heavy armies are your key along with some Javelins to flank and harass enemy RKs. Since Early armies are spear heavy a small well managed Irish force can roll through a few provinces before needing refitted. Use your cavalry to tie up enemy cavalry. You won't be able to afford enough Rks to play the usual Catholic game of using them as the hammer to your infantries anvil, instead use them to frontal charge enemy cavalry and flank them with your skirmishers while your swords and axes chew up the main line.
I found it extremely helpful to disrupt the line of battle as much as possible. If you can manage it, have your cav charge the enemy cav at the rear of your army while the swords assault. Don't be afraid of fighting uphill, the swords ought to easily countact the negative factors.
Basically assault relentlessly, selling upgrades that you've captured but don't need to fund the warmachine until you have enough agricultural land to take a breather and consolidate.
bretwalda
10-03-2005, 12:59
Actually, I was quite successful for the second time I tried. My tactic was to buy Wales on the second (or so) turn with emissaries and then build troops (keeping in mind the upkeep cost) for a very few turns and kill the English. Irish have superior troops and British are overstretched usually.
They did the favor of killing the Scotts before dieing so that was nice :wink: When I had the British Isles, Flanders, Morrocco and a few Mediterraen Islands, I stopped and turtled until I had 500k in the "bank". By that time Papacy was the strongest power and I had to face them but that is another story...
:wink:
Del Arroyo
10-03-2005, 20:13
Ireland is too small and too poor. I've tried it. I've taken an awful lot of small/inherently disadvantaged starting positions and done fine with them. But Ireland just isn't financially possible.
DA
bretwalda
10-03-2005, 20:48
Well.
Here is the screenshot when I was opportunisticaly turtling:
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/051003/irish_turtle.gif
(Please note the other green are the Turks...)
This is when I took a long deep breath and started killing he pope fleet and this is when finally a huge fleet was got rid of...
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/051003/papacy_fleet_dead.gif
This is a nice pix where my artilliery kills the POPE!!! when the battle has not even really started...
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/051003/power_of_arty.gif
This is present time: Pope is cut in half, soon will be pushed back to Sardinia and hopefully will only gain one point per point count.
http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/051003/now.gif
The best way to clear the seas of catholic fleets is to burn the kings... until they are extinct. Muslim / pagan heathen can be just plainly sunk :wink:
Summing up: Irish can be raised to a superpower...
Wow, a few things come to mind when I saw your post.
1. How did you lose 15 ships and take out none?
2. How did both England and the Pope become superpowers?
3. How is England still in the game when you own "England?"
4. Are you using a mod?
bretwalda
10-03-2005, 21:47
Wow, a few things come to mind when I saw your post.
1. How did you lose 15 ships and take out none?
When you fight a sea battle all of the ships of one side are lost. On the first pic I lost 15 on the second the Papacy did...
2. How did both England and the Pope become superpowers?
England reemerged twice. The Pope chipped away the catholics slowly and soon it was a superpower
3. How is England still in the game when you own "England?"
I burned the English king a few times so one of the extinctions burdens my soul :wink: They reemerged in Iberia twice if I recall correctly.
4. Are you using a mod?
Well, quite obviously I use XL mod like the starter of the thread, otherwise how can I be using the Irish faction. Also, Papacy has GA goals like everyone else...
Sweet empire bret! I've gotten some progress finally. I first took Norway, then Scotland, Northum, and then Mercia. That's where I'm at now, I expect another counter-attack very soon, I'm afraid because I'm a little understaffed and all my provinces aren't connected through sea, damn Brit ships are giving me a headache. Then again, Fianna Eirean and Gallows easily destroy the crap Urban Militia and spearmen they are spamming. Even their Royal Knights are easy to defeat, just lure them into a forrest where the Fianna Eirean can hack them to bits. Once I can get the entire Island taken I'm going to turtle too until high, or probably a bit after once I swap out some units with the new ones.
BTW: Does Ireland get any new units in high/late? If not, do Fianna Eirean stack up against later units like CMAA?
Don't quote me on this now, it's a while since I played my Irish campaign!
I'm pretty sure that the Irish don't get access to the higher Catholic units, certain of the higher cavalry units but less sure of the infantry units.
I remember still using teched and valoured Fianna Eirreann as the main stay of my armies. I also distictly remember being dissapointed that my tech rush in Ireland failed to yield me Feudal Knights, but maybe I'm imagining things.
I don't know about later items like pikemen and pav arbs, but they're pretty generic so I'd imagine so. I wasn't in a state to tech my provinces much to be honest. You'll probably end up fighting at a technical disadvantage until Late when the armies go more generic. Take a look in the unit prod files, if you can decipher them it should help.
Vladimir
10-04-2005, 13:40
Wow, good job! I don't know how you kept them sober long enough to beat back the Pope. Ship battles aren't always all-or-none. Quite a few times I have taken losses in a victory. Recently I lost 2:1 but won the battle.
bretwalda
10-04-2005, 15:57
Wow, good job! I don't know how you kept them sober long enough to beat back the Pope.
Oh well, I had to ration the whiskey and the beer :wink: And I allowed a little celebration after each victory...
Ship battles aren't always all-or-none. Quite a few times I have taken losses in a victory. Recently I lost 2:1 but won the battle.
What I said was "When you fight a sea battle all of the ships of one side are lost." I thought the question was how could so many ships be lost...
Vladimir
10-04-2005, 18:39
Oh well, I had to ration the whiskey and the beer :wink: And I allowed a little celebration after each victory...
~:cheers:
What I said was "When you fight a sea battle all of the ships of one side are lost." I thought the question was how could so many ships be lost...
Cool.
Don't quote me on this now, it's a while since I played my Irish campaign!
I'm pretty sure that the Irish don't get access to the higher Catholic units, certain of the higher cavalry units but less sure of the infantry units.
I remember still using teched and valoured Fianna Eirreann as the main stay of my armies. I also distictly remember being dissapointed that my tech rush in Ireland failed to yield me Feudal Knights, but maybe I'm imagining things.
I don't know about later items like pikemen and pav arbs, but they're pretty generic so I'd imagine so. I wasn't in a state to tech my provinces much to be honest. You'll probably end up fighting at a technical disadvantage until Late when the armies go more generic. Take a look in the unit prod files, if you can decipher them it should help.Gah, you were right. I was really looking forward to using Chivalric Knights as the Irish. All you get are CMAA and Xbows.
bretwalda
10-04-2005, 21:11
Gah, you were right. I was really looking forward to using Chivalric Knights as the Irish. All you get are CMAA and Xbows.
Actually I have arbs and pav arbs; also welsh longbowmen rock. Plus the armorpiercing javellins and darts you have stay valuable throughout the ages. You only get armored spearmen, though - but that holds long enough to flank with your Irish-only troops while your kerns, bonnachts and dartmen pierce armor... I personnaly don't really miss heavy cavalry (you have RK anyway) as there is irish horsemen which is jinnette by any other name...
Yeah I meant "xbows" generally. Irish Horsemen's darts seem week, so do foot dartmen. I don't think darts are armor piercing like javs, in my (recent) experience they bounced off RK's and didn't seem to do much at all. They're extremely weak in melee too, they couldn't even kill skirmishing archers.
Kerns are great though. When I had went to attack 5 English RK's I just took 5 armored spearmen and 5 Kerns. Disproportionate losses but it was still a breeze.
Pillowfighter
10-05-2005, 03:55
Here is a screen from my Irish Campaign. I had married off as many princes to foreign princesses as I could during the early turns. I had an alliance with the Danes who were fighting both the Swedes and French(both countries are blue). When the Danish King was captured and killed the Danes disappeared and I obtained 3 or 4 provinces because of the marriage to their princess. I also inherited both of their wars with Swedes and French though. Interesting since I haven't played the game enough to ever have this sort of thing happen before.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Pillowfighter7/IrishCampaign.jpg
Vladimir
10-05-2005, 15:09
Interesting. I never put much stock in inheritance but maybe I should get devious by arranging marriages and killing off their royal line. :devil:
Pillowfighter
10-06-2005, 02:54
Yea...I have been trying to improve my play by working more on my royal line and inheritance. This is my current King and for a young King(ascended throne in early 20's) he is one of the best with alot of influence that I have ever had in any campaign yet. I did have to send 2 heirs ahead of him off on a one way trip to Wessex early in the game though. ~D
I'm not certain how much of a factor his influence would have on gaining the territory on the Danes demise?
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Pillowfighter7/King.jpg
I haven't thought about it but higher influence nations getting first dibs on inherited territory sounds logical.
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