New Tory leader [Archive]

InsaneApache

10-05-2005, 14:43

Prolly only of interest to a few of the UK posters, but who do the organs think should get to be the new Conservative leader.

Having watched the speeches this week, I have to say that far and away the best (IMHO) is Cameron. He actually says things that I havn't heard for a decade or more. More democracy, less tax and he at least has the courage to grasp the education nettle and point out the nonsense of New Labours policies.

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=conference.2005.news.story.page&obj_id=125400&speeches=1

Maybe the man for the job? Watch this space.......

Duke Malcolm

10-05-2005, 15:12

I agree, I think Cameron's speech was most interesting, mostly the fact that he performed the whole thing wandering about the stage and without notes. I have to say, I didn't see most of the speech, but of what I did see and of what I just read, I might just consider voting Conservative in the next General election... beautiful... especially the bit about why he joined the party... *sniff*

I think that Sir Malcolm Rifkind or Dr Liam Fox might perhaps be able to win over more Scottish votes in the next election to both Westminster and Holyrood, although I feel that Kenneth Clarke might give the party a slightly better chance with the voters overall.

Adrian II

10-05-2005, 15:25

http://www.geocities.com/borisjohnsonfanclub/image002.jpg

Geoffrey S

10-05-2005, 15:31

Boris Johnson, right? That picture sums up my feelings on the Conservatives at the moment. They need to get some kind of common ground going rather than the internal bickering and divided opinions which permeate the party right now, if they want to look like a feasible alternative to Labour.

BDC

10-05-2005, 16:08

Cameron might go somewhere. But Clarke will win, dooming the country to four years of Brown. The Tories really need to pull the finger out. They are failing completely as the opposition. All they do is say the exact opposite as Labour, which never goes anywhere.

English assassin

10-05-2005, 16:28

As a paid up member of the party I can honestly say I couldn't care less who wins, as they are all terrible. Clarke should have won after 97, and is now too old. Fox is a moron even by the undemanding standards of UK politics. Cameron is a 30 something Old Etonian and I will go to hell in a handbasket before I think the country needs to be lead by one of those. Rifkind (is he standing?) is all right but ineffectual.

Although I am not on his wing of the party Davis seems to be the best of a bad lot. The old working class thug made good schtick has worked in the past after all.

But honestly I couldn't give a monkeys. This ought to be telling me something...

Incidentally I hope you were all impressed by the brilliant way the party got the worst possible result from the ballot to change the rules for electing the leader? A majority against the present rules, but not a big enough majority to change them. Superb. So we are stuck with a system in which Sid and Doris Bonkers (aged 87) elect the leader, but whose credibility is underminded by the fact that most sensible people didn't want it. (Having met Sid and Doris Bonkers I certainly don't.)

Mark my words this has gone from an unfortunate period and is looking like it could be terminal decline. Which is rather unfortunate as The Labour party is not nearly so centre right as Polly Mad in the Guardian pretends to believe. (see eg Gordon Brown being told off for running budget deficits by the IMF despite the economy being nowhere near recession)

Duke Malcolm

10-05-2005, 16:32

Oh, yes that thing about not changing how the leader is chosen... Surely anyone can see that it is better to have a leader that the MPs choose and can unite around rather than some random folk who will never meet the person.

Rifkind is standing, I believe.

ShadesWolf

10-05-2005, 19:01

It would be interesting to see what would happen if cameron won.
I personnally believe Bliar gets a lot of female votes due to him have a full head of hair and some sad women even fancy him (cant see why myself)

The last election was the worst female turnout for Conservatives since they got the vote. So what does that tell you.

Anyway it all depends on who the sun backs at the next election, as they tell the sad public who to vote, and the population follows. At the last election the tory shad some good ideas, but people just didnt believe them. Until the economy crashes, and it will, I cant see these lot being kicked out.

lancelot

10-05-2005, 19:17

Personally, I love Boris! They definately should get him back and put him in charge! That guy cracks me up!

There is something really funny about a guy who is sooooo posh he can barely speak!

Did you ever see him on 'Have I got news for you'? He was hilarious ~:cheers:

_Martyr_

10-05-2005, 19:29

Yeah, I saw that one! ~D Probably the funniest show on TV, and that was probably one of the funniest episodes! ~D

The_Doctor

10-05-2005, 19:32

Boris! Boris! Boris!:dizzy2:

If he got in, Liverpool would revolt and form its own country.

BDC

10-05-2005, 19:34

Boris! Boris! Boris!:dizzy2:

If he got in, Liverpool would revolt and form its own country.
Go Boris then!

King Henry V

10-05-2005, 19:40

I'll drink to that.~:cheers: They could always join Ireland. Then there wouldn't be anymore of that rubbish Merseybeat on TV.

The_Doctor

10-05-2005, 20:29

Remember Liverpool was the "second city of the empire".

Then there wouldn't be anymore of that rubbish Merseybeat on TV.

Yes there would, only we would have to export it to you.

I have never seen it, so it must be bad.

Geoffrey S

10-06-2005, 08:11

Did you ever see him on 'Have I got news for you'? He was hilarious ~:cheers:
'twas ace.

InsaneApache

10-06-2005, 08:32

Remember Liverpool was the "second city of the empire

I thought that was Glasgow ~:confused:

Anyway back on topic...

@ EA I personally couldn't give a rats arse where the leader of the Tories came from, as long as they manage to put up some sort of fight at the next election and not roll over for a fourth time. It hasn't hurt Bliar being a public, smarmy, schoolboy and it didn't help Howard coming from a lower social group than Bliar...

as Howard said..

"This grammar school boy is not going to take any lessons from that public school boy on the importance of children from less privileged backgrounds gaining access to university."

and I was impressed with Camerons speech, as KM said, done without notes and engaging his audience.

econ21

10-06-2005, 09:54

But Clarke will win, dooming the country to four years of Brown.

As a Labour supporter, my suspicion is that Clarke would be the biggest threat to Brown in an election. It would be harder for Brown to patronise and appear superior to him, plus Clarke has a likeable human side to him that Brown arguably does not. I suspect ideologically, Clarke appears more palatable to floating voters - he does not seem part of the "nasty party", which Davis does and even the younger faces may be identified with.

I may be biased though as I confess Clarke is one of the few Conservative politicians I like and can listen to without briddling (Willetts and Rifkind might be too others).

But more generally, it is hard to see Brown losing the next election unless the economy or something goes very sour. From that point of view, Clarke may be a bad choice due to his age, if he has to be replaced for yet another leader. From such a defeatist point of view, it may be better to choose someone younger but stick with him, allowing him to build up his credentials to win the election after next.

Duke Malcolm

10-06-2005, 11:39

Remember Liverpool was the "second city of the empire".

That was Glasgow...

Anyhoo...
The public would certainly support Clarke more than Cameron in an election, unless Cameron wins and proves himself a fantastic leader and gains massive support and such like. But I think that if Cameron won and gave every speech without notes and wrote it himself and engaged the people then he would be in with a good chance of winning the election, especially if he kept that magnificent head of hair (as we all know the hypothesis that bald men lose elections to hairy men).

Wouldn't it be nice of Rifkind or Fox won, then the leaders of the three main parties would be Scottish. And they tell you English folks you live in a Scottish Raj...

English assassin

10-06-2005, 12:04

Can we just have a quick check on this wunderkind-speaks-without-notes thing?

OK, I went through bar school, so I suppose I have the advantage of practice. But being able to speak for 20 minutes, not on some esoteric topic you know nothing about, but on what are supposed to be your deepest, most cherished beliefs, is not THAT big a deal. And he is a politician, its supposed to be his job to be able to do this.

But more generally, it is hard to see Brown losing the next election unless the economy or something goes very sour

Its hard to see the Tories winning, certainly. But there's no love lost for Labour any more. Its just as well for Gordon that the Lib Dems are so obviously only the political wing of the wingeing middle class and Reform are mad. A serious left of centre challenge would see Labour in the soup IMHO.

The_Doctor

10-06-2005, 17:39

The borough council petitioned for Liverpool to be given city status which it achieved in 1888, and by the early 20th century it was proclaimed the "Second City of Empire".

http://www.liverpool08.com/AboutLiverpool/History/index.asp

In the past, Glasgow and Liverpool each had a claim to being the second city of the UK or indeed of the entire British Empire. Both cities were prominent because of their economic importance, especially the central role which they played in overseas trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_city#United_Kingdom

Ok, so Glasgow was at some point in time.

Is Glasgow the one with the Neds?

Duke Malcolm

10-06-2005, 17:47

Yes, but Glasgow is the proper, original 2nd city of the Empire

Taffy_is_a_Taff

10-07-2005, 23:25

all of Scotland's cities are the ones with the NEDs

~D

I have to say that I don't like Clarke or Fox.

I love Boris Johnson but seeing as he isn't running I'm going to have to say that Cameron or Davis'll get it and, being abroad, I know nothing about either.

Duke Malcolm

10-08-2005, 12:22

The bookies were at 5:6 for Cameron last time I checked, he's favourite.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

10-08-2005, 13:45

having read about Cameron's and Davis's performances at the conference I do believe that Cameron would be the wiser pick for the Tories. If Davis can't get his act together in preparing his speeches for an important event like that then I doubt he'd get his public image working if he did win.

King Henry V

10-18-2005, 21:57

Well Ken Clarke has been knocked out of the race, he got the least number of votes, 38 out of 198 votes. I don't quite like his Europhile views, he is old, and I think the only one he could give a run for his money is the Bull of Hull.

BDC

10-18-2005, 22:07

Well my friend, who appears to be the solitary local member of the Young Conservatives, seems really taken with Cameron. And seeing as my friend's also the most cynical bastard I've ever met, I suspect Cameron must have something going for him.

InsaneApache

10-18-2005, 22:49

Charisma....something alien to the tories since they sold their soul to Major......and lets face it, Major had a quadruple charisma bypass....how anybody could think him a leader beguiles me.....

English assassin

10-19-2005, 17:34

Cameron? Yes, that's what we need, a 39 year old old Etonian from the Notting Hill set. That's the way to reconnect with the masses... :dizzy2:

I see Zac Goldsmith has been selected on the candidates list too. Well, thats the hard-to-reach sons of billionaires demographic sewn up then.

Bloody hopeless.

The_Doctor

10-19-2005, 19:02

Cameron? Yes, that's what we need, a 39 year old old Etonian from the Notting Hill set. That's the way to reconnect with the masses...

He could sell them drugs.~D

*I am only messing*

ShadesWolf

10-19-2005, 20:37

So tomorrow I will see who I get a chance to vote for ~:)

My guess is Cameron or Fox
with David Davis getting eliminated.

Duke Malcolm

10-20-2005, 16:37

Cameron seems the best to win, but Davis might be better for "connecting to the masses" with his much-advertised council estate background, and single mother...
The drug thing with Cameron gives him a slight boost with the public, I think. It shows he is consistent and hold a point for a damned long time, and makes him seem more human.

Although I still think that it would be nice if Dr Fox won for the reason I stated above...

RabidGibbon

10-20-2005, 16:59

Read in the Independant that "The Drug thing" has worked wonders for Cameron, as everyones asking "What drugs did you take and were you at an orgy at the time?" instead of "How can you lead the Tory party when you've only been an MP for 4 years or so.

Does seem a kind of meteoric rise. Do Orgahs think Cameron would make a good leader for the Tories? The other 2 (David & Fox) do seem like the charisma-less chumps the tory party excels at churning out in leadership contests recently.

BDC

10-20-2005, 17:44

English assassin

10-20-2005, 18:03

Do Orgahs think Cameron would make a good leader for the Tories

Would have been better if he had had a proper job instead of being a policy wonk/PR person.

I look forward to using my ballot paper to snort some charlie.

Kanamori

10-20-2005, 18:09

snort some charlie? is that what they call coke in England~:confused:

English assassin

10-20-2005, 18:16

Its what I call coke in England. I dare say it hasn't been called charlie for about ten years now.

Not that David Cameron would know what it was called ten years ago, of course. Or today. or ever.

Kanamori

10-20-2005, 18:19

:laugh4:

King Henry V

12-07-2005, 12:27

Well David Cameron has got the leadership, I think he might turn out to be a Conservative Bliar.

English assassin

12-07-2005, 12:39

Well David Cameron has got the leadership, I think he might turn out to be a Conservative Bliar.

What, another one???

Tribesman

12-07-2005, 13:26

I think he might turn out to be a Conservative Bliar.
What , you mean Thatcher Lite~D

Somebody Else

12-07-2005, 13:39

I for one am pleased with the result. A young leader's always good - if they're good enough to get in without the experience of some old git, then they're clearly more than capable for the job. And hopefully they'll be brash enough to do something odd, like improve things...

Of course... 39 - still 16 years too old.

Prodigal

12-07-2005, 14:01

They're gonna have to perform some freaking miracles before I forget what those total ******* did last time.

How many of them ended up in prison?

NOT ENOUGH!

Even Maggies lil boy can start a coup, a bloody COUP of all things! And he gets what, house arrest?

I'm no great fan of labour either btw, but at least they resign when caught; and none of them have even got close to the bottom feeding life forms that the last tory government epitomised.

I haven't read any of the previous posts in this thread as I have deep concerns that anyone saying the tories being voted out was the worst thing that happened to the country may make my eye's bleed.

InsaneApache

12-07-2005, 14:51

I'm no great fan of labour either btw, but at least they resign when caught; and none of them have even got close to the bottom feeding life forms that the last tory government epitomised.

er... Peter Mandelson (x2), Donald Dewar, Ron Davies, Geoffrey Robinson, Mike O'Brien, Keith Vaz, Stephen Byers, David Blunkett (x2), Beverley Hughes...and then there was the Bernie Ecclestone incident....oh yes as pure as the driven slush this bloody lot, no suggestion of impropriety at all.

Jeesh some people ...........~:joker:

Geoffrey S

12-07-2005, 15:08

Since this whole deal started I've seen a lot more of Cameron. Can't say I'm impressed, the comparison with Blair is apt; in particular his condescending, patronising tone is similar.

Still, I refrain from too much complaining until he actually makes clear what his policies would be were he in office, or if he resorts to simply criticising Labour without actually providing a viable alternative.

King Henry V

12-07-2005, 15:26

I think he might turn out to be a Conservative Bliar.
What , you mean Thatcher Lite~D
Probably...economically right-wing, socially centre right.
Although I think that he might thin the sugary coating of socialism that labour has...

English assassin

12-07-2005, 16:32

Just to add to IA comments:

Even Maggies lil boy can start a coup, a bloody COUP of all things! And he gets what, house arrest?

Sorry to disappoint you but that coup wasn't actually official Tory party policy. If the freelance activity of a dickhead son of a long gone former leader is the best you can do...

No disrespect mate, you can hate the tories for whatever reason you like, right down to bad haircuts, only its not that convincing to the rest of us.

I am amazed (slightly biased I admit but still amazed) that in light of the little list that IA posted, not to mention the small bleedin' matter of starting a WAR on the basis of lies, that some people STILL believe the old 1997 Alistair Campbell bollox that Labour= pure and Tories=sleaze.

this is even before we get onto eroding civil liberties and urinating taxpayers money up the wall.

Duke Malcolm

12-07-2005, 17:44

Probably...economically right-wing, socially centre right.
Although I think that he might thin the sugary coating of socialism that labour has...

Almost the perfect man... now if he only came out to support the Empire, then... *sighs* he's so dreeeamy...

Duke Malcolm

12-07-2005, 18:58

I just watched PM's Questions on the BBC, and by God, Cameron was marvellous, expecially his little jibe at the Government Cheif Whip.

JAG

12-07-2005, 20:30

King Henry V

12-07-2005, 21:15

Would that "fresh, brand new and interesting policies" be going back to Old Labour?

ShadesWolf

12-07-2005, 21:25

Would that "fresh, brand new and interesting policies" be going back to Old Labour?

No its another new Tax, to allow the yob culture more power to avoid full time work. A few more civil servants/ council workers ~:cheers:

Grey_Fox

12-07-2005, 21:37

I thought it was very funny.

InsaneApache

12-08-2005, 04:26

A few more civil servants/ council workers

Yes but only until they reach 60 years old the poor dears....whilst the rest of us have to work another 2 extra years to keep them in the style of living in which I would like to become accustomed.....

Don't Socialist make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

NO.

JAG

12-08-2005, 06:10

Don't Socialist make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

I am nice, warm and fuzzy!

lancelot

12-08-2005, 13:57

Clearly as a member of the Labour party I am concerned with Cameron taking over, in fact the Tories might actually be ahead in the polls at Christmas for a change - about time. But there is so much hype and he has a lot to do, the Tories are no way near close enough to forming the next govt, young people still hate them, inner cities don't forget the problems Tories caused them in the 80's not to mention the Labour improvements, etc. Plus I have a sneaking suspision Brown will introduce some brand new, fresh and interesting policies when he becomes leader, no way we are loosing the next election and by then Cameron will be axed, like every failed Tory leader before him has been, it is the Tory way.

9 more years of Red rule. ~:cheers:

Labour, red? Ha!

And the only thing the next labour government (whoever is in charge) will introduce is new taxes (stealth or otherwise). Its standard labour problem fixing policy- dont tackle the cause of the problem, just get more money and that will fix it (this time).

Besides, the only reason Labour are in power now, is the voting system, in a vote for vote count Tories beat them hands down. They won on a technicality at best.

And considering your democratic tendencies, Im surprised you favour such a suck ass voting system... ~:)

Im not saying Im a tory supporter by any stretch but if one thing is for certain, labour have had their chance and all they have brought are new problems and new costs.

I am also sure whoever is in power next will continue to blame the previous government as a reason for their failures. labour have done that for god knows how long and its getting old...

Geoffrey S

12-09-2005, 20:35

Just had to get this one in:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4514866.stm
:ahh:

Marcellus

12-09-2005, 20:50

Yeah! Boris gets a job. How long do you think it will be before he gets fired? Ladies and gentemen, place your bets.

http://garymonro.blogsome.com/images/BorisJohnson.jpg

The_Doctor

12-09-2005, 21:17

Damn, you beat me to it.

He has is own website:
http://www.boris-johnson.com/index.html

His full name is:
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

And he was born in New York

Marcellus

12-09-2005, 21:31

His full name is:
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

He actually got his name wrong on Have I Got News For You. When asked for his full name, he replied Boris Johnson, when of course it is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Where he got 'de Pfeffel' from is anyone's guess. Curoiusly enough, he is the great-grandson of the last interior minister of the Imperial Turkish government. I believe his great-grandfather was nailed to a tree, but I may be wrong.

InsaneApache

12-09-2005, 21:32

Damn, you beat me to it.

He has is own website:
http://www.boris-johnson.com/index.html

His full name is:
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

And he was born in New York

No relation to the Doctor in the movie 'man with two brains'???....wasn't he called PPPhhhherrrwwwgfffoorah...or summat? ~:joker:

The_Doctor

12-09-2005, 22:36

He actually got his name wrong on Have I Got News For You. When asked for his full name, he replied Boris Johnson, when of course it is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Where he got 'de Pfeffel' from is anyone's guess.

Yeah, I remember that.~:joker:

Curoiusly enough, he is the great-grandson of the last interior minister of the Imperial Turkish government. I believe his great-grandfather was nailed to a tree, but I may be wrong.

Really?~:confused:

JAG

12-09-2005, 22:51

Lancelot - not only are Labour red, but these terms have been part of the second most influencial socialist government in our history. Look from funding to society and it is done, in main, a red way.

And considering your democratic tendencies, Im surprised you favour such a suck ass voting system...

I don't, I support a form of proportional representation which also holds the historic, strong local bonds.

lancelot

12-10-2005, 01:55

@Jag

But even you must admit they have moved so far right from what is really labour that a) its not even funny and b) they are not red anymore, more of a pinkish colour.. ~;)

And didnt they remove clause 4 of their manifesto, something about a pledge to common ownership?

I dont see you as much nowdays JAG, but I do enjoy reading your perspectives on things, even if I dont agree with half of it!

Prodigal

12-12-2005, 15:19

er... Peter Mandelson (x2), Donald Dewar, Ron Davies, Geoffrey Robinson, Mike O'Brien, Keith Vaz, Stephen Byers, David Blunkett (x2), Beverley Hughes...and then there was the Bernie Ecclestone incident....oh yes as pure as the driven slush this bloody lot, no suggestion of impropriety at all.

Jeesh some people ...........~:joker:
Any of them used rent boys, tried to get their children to lie in court for them...Do I need to go on? There's "impropriety" & being a criminal. Also none of them have been found dead in womens underwear with an orange shoved in their mouth.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

12-12-2005, 18:07

wasn't Ron Davies' walk in the park epsiode about rentboys?

Prodigal

12-13-2005, 11:44

No comment...I just didn't take kindly to having the assumption made that I'm a labour supporter because I dislike the tories more.

In another post I clearly stated that all politicians should be exterminated & replaced by the landed gentry.

Tsavong

12-13-2005, 17:40

I think i will wate and see what polcies they come up with before i make a decision of water there any good or not.

throw with voter tern out of 30% or so do they have a right to do anything rely? as the majority did not put them there. i think people should all vote and it was applied to the last election we would get 60% or so of ballot papers counted as destroyed in the ballot box, i would like to see there faces if that happened that more people thought that no 1 was worth putting in power ehehe