Bullethead
10-08-2002, 01:26
While waiting for feedback on Blore Heath, I've started work on Towton. This battle involved Yorkist reinforcements arriving at the crisis and deciding the day. Thus, I need to master the art of bringing in reinforcements at the correct time and place.
So I started with the info on Barocca's .adf page (many thanks for this) and began experimenting, trying to learn how the variables involved affect things. Unfortunately, I've found that some of Barocca's info doesn't seem to be correct. Even worse, I've found that there's a lack of consistency in the game. In some cases the reinforcements work fine but in others they don't, for no apparent reason. I therefore suspect the system contains bugs, or that the available information is incomplete.
Here's the results of my experiments, and my questions arising therefrom. I hope somebody from CA will look into this issue.
Reinforcements::xxx
For them as don't know, this is an optional parameter for a unit in the .adf file. The xxx is the time in seconds after the start of the battle before the unit appears on the map. If you use this parameter, the "reinforcements available" button at the top of the battle screen becomes active and you can then select to either place an assembly area flag or just call the reinforcing units in to an unspecified place.
This command works perfectly as regards to time. The unit always appears after the number of seconds specified in the .adf file. The problem with it is controlling WHERE on the map the unit appears. There also seem to be bugs in the interface of the reinforcement system, at least in an historical battle context.
I. REINFORCEMENT INTERFACE BUGS
A. NO NUMBER OF TROOPS
The "reinforcements available" button has a blank space where the number of off-map troops is supposed to show up. In an historical battle, this space remains blank.
B. NO NUMBER OF UNITS
When you hit the reinforcements button, you see 3 lines of green text. While the top line (units available) is correct, the other 2 lines always show 0 regardless of what's happening.
C. NO ASSEMBLY FLAG
The mechanics of placing the flag seem to work correctly, as units will head for the spot you click on. And when you click, the text by the mouse saying to place a flag disappears. However, no flag appears on the map.
II. REINFORCEMENT ENTRY POSITION PROBLEMS
There are 3 basic options here. You can hit a button to place an assembly point flag, you can just call the reinforcements in, and you can do nothing. The latter 2 options appear to have the same effect. Also, the AI seems always selects one of these--it never seems to place a flag because its reinforcements always appear as if it had done nothing.
1. Just Calling or Doing Nothing
By doing nothing, you just let the time specified in the .adf file expire. In either case, the unit appears at a default position. For a given battle, this default position is fixed, in that every time you run the battle, the troops appear in the same place. However, this default position seems to be determined by other variables because it's different in the separate battles I've experimented with. To wit:
Test Battle: Small map, defender in north. Defender's reinforcement appears at SW corner (0,0) behind attacker. Attacker's reinforcement appears at the same place, apparently showing this to be the default position.
Towton Battle: Medium map, defender in south. Defender's reinforcement appears at the center of the south map edge (about 26624,0).
[/list]
What causes this difference? Why do the units appear in the corner of the small map and the middle of the medium map? And why do the attacker's and defender's reinforcements use the same default spot? Basically, what are the rules for determining the default entry position?
B. Placing a Flag
This is weird. Due to the strangeness, I suspect a bug in the mechanics of the system.
CA's apparent intent here was that units would appear on the map edge at a point closest to where you put the flag. Problem is, it only works this way SOMETIMES, within rather tight limits as to flag placement. If you put the flag outside these limits, the unit appears at the default position as if you hadn't placed a flag. And the limits where the flag works don't make much sense.
There are 2 separate areas where placing the flag will make the unit appear on the map near the flag. These areas are:
Corner of Map to Your Right Rear: This seems to work regardless of which way your army faces, so if you're facing south, this would be the NW corner. The "working" area is a narrow strip starting at this corner and going up the edge toward your front up to nearly the midpoint of the map. If you put the flag near the corner, the unit appears at the corner. If you put the flag further forward toward the centerline of the map, the unit appears on the edge about even with the flag. However, this only works within an area about 5 textures out from the right edge of the map. If you put the flag further in on the map, the unit appears at the default position.
Corner of Map to Your Front Left: If you were facing south, this would be the SE corner of the map. This area is much like the above, except it extends across your front along the map edge behind the enemy. Again, the working area is about 5 textures wide and extends to about the centerline of the map.
[/list]
So basically, the 2 areas in which using a flag makes the unit appear at a "selected" point on the map edge looks like this:
====---+
|..........|
+.........+
|....Y...| |
+------| |
Where Y is the position of your army, facing the top of the picture. The double lines indicate the working areas. In my test battle, the default position was (0,0) if I put the flag anywhere besides these small working areas, the unit appeared in the lower left corner.
So what's up with this? Why don't the flags work everywhere? Is there a way around this?
Also, do the coordinates and facing given to a reinforcing unit in the .adf file have any effect on where it shows up? Do the effects differ for attacker and defender, or for facing on the map? For these last 2, my research indicates they don't, but it never hurts to be sure.
CA, please help http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
********************
NOTE: Besides the Reinforcements::xxx command, Barocca's .adf page also says you can get reinforcements by giving a unit a starting position off the map and allowing it to walk on. THIS DOES NOT WORK--the unit begins on the map all squashed up against an edge and immediately (before you hit Begin Battle) moves out onto the map far enough to get in proper formation http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif.
********************
------------------
-Bullethead
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
Friggin' non-Courier display font...
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
So I started with the info on Barocca's .adf page (many thanks for this) and began experimenting, trying to learn how the variables involved affect things. Unfortunately, I've found that some of Barocca's info doesn't seem to be correct. Even worse, I've found that there's a lack of consistency in the game. In some cases the reinforcements work fine but in others they don't, for no apparent reason. I therefore suspect the system contains bugs, or that the available information is incomplete.
Here's the results of my experiments, and my questions arising therefrom. I hope somebody from CA will look into this issue.
Reinforcements::xxx
For them as don't know, this is an optional parameter for a unit in the .adf file. The xxx is the time in seconds after the start of the battle before the unit appears on the map. If you use this parameter, the "reinforcements available" button at the top of the battle screen becomes active and you can then select to either place an assembly area flag or just call the reinforcing units in to an unspecified place.
This command works perfectly as regards to time. The unit always appears after the number of seconds specified in the .adf file. The problem with it is controlling WHERE on the map the unit appears. There also seem to be bugs in the interface of the reinforcement system, at least in an historical battle context.
I. REINFORCEMENT INTERFACE BUGS
A. NO NUMBER OF TROOPS
The "reinforcements available" button has a blank space where the number of off-map troops is supposed to show up. In an historical battle, this space remains blank.
B. NO NUMBER OF UNITS
When you hit the reinforcements button, you see 3 lines of green text. While the top line (units available) is correct, the other 2 lines always show 0 regardless of what's happening.
C. NO ASSEMBLY FLAG
The mechanics of placing the flag seem to work correctly, as units will head for the spot you click on. And when you click, the text by the mouse saying to place a flag disappears. However, no flag appears on the map.
II. REINFORCEMENT ENTRY POSITION PROBLEMS
There are 3 basic options here. You can hit a button to place an assembly point flag, you can just call the reinforcements in, and you can do nothing. The latter 2 options appear to have the same effect. Also, the AI seems always selects one of these--it never seems to place a flag because its reinforcements always appear as if it had done nothing.
1. Just Calling or Doing Nothing
By doing nothing, you just let the time specified in the .adf file expire. In either case, the unit appears at a default position. For a given battle, this default position is fixed, in that every time you run the battle, the troops appear in the same place. However, this default position seems to be determined by other variables because it's different in the separate battles I've experimented with. To wit:
Test Battle: Small map, defender in north. Defender's reinforcement appears at SW corner (0,0) behind attacker. Attacker's reinforcement appears at the same place, apparently showing this to be the default position.
Towton Battle: Medium map, defender in south. Defender's reinforcement appears at the center of the south map edge (about 26624,0).
[/list]
What causes this difference? Why do the units appear in the corner of the small map and the middle of the medium map? And why do the attacker's and defender's reinforcements use the same default spot? Basically, what are the rules for determining the default entry position?
B. Placing a Flag
This is weird. Due to the strangeness, I suspect a bug in the mechanics of the system.
CA's apparent intent here was that units would appear on the map edge at a point closest to where you put the flag. Problem is, it only works this way SOMETIMES, within rather tight limits as to flag placement. If you put the flag outside these limits, the unit appears at the default position as if you hadn't placed a flag. And the limits where the flag works don't make much sense.
There are 2 separate areas where placing the flag will make the unit appear on the map near the flag. These areas are:
Corner of Map to Your Right Rear: This seems to work regardless of which way your army faces, so if you're facing south, this would be the NW corner. The "working" area is a narrow strip starting at this corner and going up the edge toward your front up to nearly the midpoint of the map. If you put the flag near the corner, the unit appears at the corner. If you put the flag further forward toward the centerline of the map, the unit appears on the edge about even with the flag. However, this only works within an area about 5 textures out from the right edge of the map. If you put the flag further in on the map, the unit appears at the default position.
Corner of Map to Your Front Left: If you were facing south, this would be the SE corner of the map. This area is much like the above, except it extends across your front along the map edge behind the enemy. Again, the working area is about 5 textures wide and extends to about the centerline of the map.
[/list]
So basically, the 2 areas in which using a flag makes the unit appear at a "selected" point on the map edge looks like this:
====---+
|..........|
+.........+
|....Y...| |
+------| |
Where Y is the position of your army, facing the top of the picture. The double lines indicate the working areas. In my test battle, the default position was (0,0) if I put the flag anywhere besides these small working areas, the unit appeared in the lower left corner.
So what's up with this? Why don't the flags work everywhere? Is there a way around this?
Also, do the coordinates and facing given to a reinforcing unit in the .adf file have any effect on where it shows up? Do the effects differ for attacker and defender, or for facing on the map? For these last 2, my research indicates they don't, but it never hurts to be sure.
CA, please help http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
********************
NOTE: Besides the Reinforcements::xxx command, Barocca's .adf page also says you can get reinforcements by giving a unit a starting position off the map and allowing it to walk on. THIS DOES NOT WORK--the unit begins on the map all squashed up against an edge and immediately (before you hit Begin Battle) moves out onto the map far enough to get in proper formation http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif.
********************
------------------
-Bullethead
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
Friggin' non-Courier display font...
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 10-07-2002).]