View Full Version : Diplomacy
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-06-2005, 19:41
Topic for discussion - are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?
Might be an easy answer, but I suggest one looks at definitions of Informal diplomacy and Public diplomacy first. Seems they've got everything covered these days with their new terms.
Anything can be brought into play. Historical examples are also very welcome.
Proletariat
10-06-2005, 19:58
Espionage is an aspect, I'd say. I think I might be misunderstanding your question, though.
edyzmedieval
10-06-2005, 20:04
I love diplomacy. My dad wants to make me an ambasador or a diplomat of some sort. ~:)
Spying doesn't count as diplomacy.
Proletariat
10-06-2005, 20:07
Well, he asked for aspects of foriegn relations which is why I was confused.
He didn't say, 'Are there other types of diplomacy other than diplomacy?'
edyzmedieval
10-06-2005, 20:14
The commercial "alliances" don't count as diplomacy. ~:)
Just an example.
Proletariat
10-06-2005, 20:18
Okay, it is thursday, so it's very possible my brain has melted.
Topic for discussion - are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?
Have I completely lost my mind, or is BKB asking for what is not diplomacy or war, but is an aspect of foreign relations?
Sheesh.
Seamus Fermanagh
10-06-2005, 20:21
Have I completely lost my mind, or is BKB asking for what is not diplomacy or war, but is an aspect of foreign relations?
Yes, he is. In which case I would answer: Dating.
Seamus
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-06-2005, 20:23
Well, yeah. To be honest its not actually my question - my brother's dealing with Byzantine diplomacy at Uni at the minute and that's the question he's been given. I don't think it has to relate to Byzantium, just any kinds of foreign relations. Its pretty tough I know, but blame the lecturer if he's melted your brain!~D
Reverend Joe
10-06-2005, 20:25
Soooo... fruit smuggling?
No, there's diplomacy in that too.
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-06-2005, 20:29
Yes, he is. In which case I would answer: Dating.
Seamus
I would have agreed, but I saw a sentence on Wikipedia (disputable I know) in the 'Public Diplomacy' article that frankly stunned me:
Indirect public diplomacy includes the everyday activities of citizens internationally, such as everyday cultural activities and products such as films, tourism, theatre, and internet discussion.
LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy)
So, according to this, us lot are engaging in a bit of 'loose' diplomacy right now!:dizzy2:
Geoffrey S
10-06-2005, 21:00
Multinational companies?
Kaiser of Arabia
10-06-2005, 21:10
War is a continuation of diplomacy by other means. - Clausewitz
Geoffrey S
10-06-2005, 21:12
"Are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?" -The Blind King of Bohemia
Papewaio
10-06-2005, 21:19
If diplomacy is the relationship between countries then every interaction between the state and the people of the countries is diplomacy.
Rude tourists can really colour the peoples view of a country disproportionally compared with virtually any other benign action.
yesdachi
10-06-2005, 21:52
Multinational companies?
That is kind of what I was thinking. They work within the already established trade laws and such but are separate from any real diplomatic negotiations.~:confused:
edit:I suppose any criminal activities would also be outside any official diplomatic activities.
Kaiser of Arabia
10-06-2005, 22:20
"Are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?" -The Blind King of Bohemia
Which is what I was referring to. War is diplomacy, carried out by unconventional ways.
Geoffrey S
10-06-2005, 22:50
But wasn't BKB asking for foreign relations that aren't considered diplomacy? Or are you correcting the implication from BKB's post that war isn't a form of diplomacy? Just curious as to what you mean exactly.
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-06-2005, 22:52
Yes I think he was correcting it. I wasn't sure myself, I was going to put perhaps war. Judging by people's responses, seems like almost every kind of interaction is diplomatic these days.
Sjakihata
10-06-2005, 23:13
To me diplomacy is a peacful solution amongs countries, that's why I don't see war as diplomacy.
Productivity
10-07-2005, 01:29
Economic restrictions?
Soulforged
10-07-2005, 01:32
To me diplomacy is a peacful solution amongs countries, that's why I don't see war as diplomacy.
Well it's simply because war isn't diplomacy, but the absolute contrary. Though diplomacy can have bad effects, as bad as war...
Uesugi Kenshin
10-07-2005, 01:37
I think war is a form of diplomacy, if diplomacy is trying to get other countries to help you achieve your goals/follow you/do something for you then war is trying to make them do something, whether it be surrender, open up a strait, remove their soldiers from your land. It is the most extreme form of persuasion, but like sanctions and such still follows the basic premise of diplomacy, which i think of as coaxing (and sometimes coercing) a country to do something, whether it is specific or broad.
Diplomacy are just relations themselves, thus war can be part of it. Or at least that is the argument von C. makes.
But one has to understand the time he lived in. Back then limited wars were very much a normal thing. For instance the English and Dutch wnet to war over the Dutch not wanting to salute the English first in the Channel (an old right).
Today wars are more or less total. Submit unconditionally. Most countries for some odd reason don't like that very much. Thus the modern war is different not only in the military aspects but also in the diplomatic one.
bmolsson
10-07-2005, 03:16
Trade.... Its older than diplomacy.
Alexander the Pretty Good
10-07-2005, 03:40
Well, if posting on an international forum is diplomacy, I'm gonna try to collect from the State Department - I'm overdue. ~;)
Soulforged
10-07-2005, 06:38
Diplomacy are just relations themselves, thus war can be part of it. Or at least that is the argument von C. makes.
But one has to understand the time he lived in. Back then limited wars were very much a normal thing. For instance the English and Dutch wnet to war over the Dutch not wanting to salute the English first in the Channel (an old right).Incorrect. Diplomacy is only oriented towards peaceful relationships, there could be cohersion, but war is the eternal foe of diplomacy, the one that enters the scene when all forms of diplomacy have failed.
Today wars are more or less total. Submit unconditionally. Most countries for some odd reason don't like that very much. Thus the modern war is different not only in the military aspects but also in the diplomatic one.Here you've to separate the two moments. One being the war itself wich is not diplomacy, and then later take the situation as a momentum of cohersion when the winner can take advantadge of it and force certain agendas through relationships.
You do know that there is a diplomatic stance that says: At War
Meaning the war is included in the diplomatic system. And war does not preclude diplomacy in quite the majority of wars.
And diplomacy isn't eaxactly peaceful always. A trade embargo is hardly peaceful, and an embargo to get some piece of land of the other is especially not peaceful.
So war and diplomacy are not only linked they overlap.
edyzmedieval
10-08-2005, 15:44
War is included in diplomacy, but war is diplomacy by unconventional means...
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