Whats worse Booze or Weed?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Which do you think is worse for the individual and society and why Pot or Alcohol?

[Kanamori]

I can never quite picture Gawain taking some hits w/o chuckling to myself...:balloon2:

[Kanamori]

I can handle them... take 'em away from everyone else and leave it to those who are responsible, like me~;)

~:cheers:

And, don't you think bud every day is a little excessive, Gawain? See, we've already found someone who can't handle it.

[Zalmoxis]

Weed, as you say, can be used to help leachemia patients, while alcohol does things only alcohol can do, both as bad.

[monkian]

Booze is the worst everytime.

It can make people very violent - we all know this to be a fact - I've been beaten up many a time by pissed up wankers. Never felt violent or seen anyone being violent or destructive under the effect of weed.


Alcohol is also alot easier to consume even when you've had too much - you can't skin up if you've smoked or eaten too much weed.

Plus state funded growth of Marijuana can produce alot more than just delicious bundles of smoking fun.

[Navaros]

Booze is worse but both of them are disgusting and pointless vices which no intelligent form of life should ever indulge in.

Best thing to do: universal ban on both and ridiculously-long prison sentences for anyone who uses them after the ban.

[monkian]

Booze is worse but both of them are disgusting and pointless vices which no intelligent form of life should ever indulge in.

Best thing to do: universal ban on both and ridiculously-long prison sentences for anyone who uses them after the ban.

Now I;d keep weed but then ban booze and religion. Alcohol and relgion have given people the exuse to cause alot more harm and suffering than weed.

[InsaneApache]

Booze is worse but both of them are disgusting and pointless vices which no intelligent form of life should ever indulge in.

Best thing to do: universal ban on both and ridiculously-long prison sentences for anyone who uses them after the ban.

Wow ~:eek: don't sit on the fence....tell us what you really think!!!

On topic:

Booze is far worse. It is addictive, spliff aint. Never mind the effects an alcoholic can have on their family and friends.....I've never had a day off work 'cos I had too much toke the night before, but I have if I've been to a party/wedding/ladsniteout and had 'one over the odds'.

:smoking: ~:smoking:

[doc_bean]

Booze is worse, it's the one I indulge in though, and I fear I might have to pay the price some day soon...

[InsaneApache]

But Doc you live in a country famed for it's beer ~:cheers: , amongst other things ~;)

[Al Khalifah]

The sheer number of patients in my local mental-health hospital suffering from cannabis related break downs and other problems stemming from its missuse is testament to only one thing:

Cannabis and alcohol, like all drugs, supplements, vitamins, food groups etc taken by humans if used incorrectly or in excess will cause serious harm that can often result in lasting damage, both to yourself and society. Cannabis can be addictive if it is used as an escape.

While actual fatalities resulting directly from cannabis use would be much lower (as a percentage of its total use), the number of people suffering from serious side-effects will be just as high. Also worth pointing out is that most people choose to smoke weed, which can cause lung-cancer and bronchitis and the tobacco taken in parallel can cause heart disease and significantly shorten life expectancy. It is also addictive and people can become psycologically addicted to weed, although they actually only crave the tobacco.

That said, taken in moderation and in groups (and never as an escape) it is just as safe as many forms of abuse we put our bodies through. Remember, coffee, vitamin supplements, energy drinks, saturated fats are harmful too but no one gones crazy over their use.

[Duke Malcolm]

While some say that alcohol makes people aggressive, people here are violent whether or not they have been drinking. Cannabis, however, is more anti-social (from what I've seen), because people generally sit in and toke away, and non-tokers sit around waiting for something interesting to happen. Cannabis is addictive, though; you should have seen my friend last week after not having any for a few days...

[Del Arroyo]

Personally I feel that weed is worse. Alcohol is a short vacation from the stress of major daily activities-- weed IS a major daily activity.

And while alcohol loosens you up and facilitates social interaction, weed shuts you up and makes you paranoid. Yes, if you're an experienced pot-head you will probably be able to function anyway, but the fact remains that weed turns you inward-- so what's the point?

And when you're high, what do you do?? You sit, you smoke some more, and you laugh at stupid stuff. That's it. Personally I feel that people who get their kicks from weed are missing out on life. And I know that weed doesn't sap everyone's ambition but there is a connection there.

..

Now it is true, the worst case scenarios for alcohol are more serious-- but is that how we should be judging things? Based on the worst that could happen?

The fact that other people might be stupid or weak with alcohol won't stop me from having beer or wine with my meal or getting drunk and going dancing once in a while. And getting stoned, doing nothing, and feeling the haze for three days afterwards, no matter how low the risk, just doesn't appeal to me.

But if weed's your thing then more power to you no hate here.

DA

[monkian]

Im not sure why you think that the recreational use of marijuana is a 'major daily activity' anymore than recreational drinking.

I dont personally sit at home doing mothing but smoke. I may have a joint whislt playing Total War but then Im far more likely to have a glass of wine or a can of beer.

If I do smoke alot of marijuana then its with other smokers - and its a very social thing. There may be 'non smoker's' among us but then there are often 'non drinkers' with me when I go to the pub and Im sure they dont find us drunken rabble that interesting when they are sober.

And Alcholism is physically addictive - there are physical side affects when a constant abuser is deprived of it.


Cannabis is addictive, though; you should have seen my friend last week after not having any for a few days..

He probably has an addictive personality. If alcohol was illeagal or not freely avaliable then Im sure you'd see plenty of peope in the street or at work acting rather stressed out.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I would say alcohol is probably worse, due to the violence. However, I really enjoy a nice cold beer, so I voted pot.

Also, I find persistent stoners really annoying to hang around with. A schoolmate of mine who smokes a lot just walks around in a daze-he's never got any energy.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I know a family who just lost their house because they couldn't afford their mortgage and their heavy pot habit.

The parents do little but smoke pot and go to work and one of their kids (who is a heavy heavy pot smoker) just sits in his room and plays video games and gets high all day like he has for the past 8 years.

They all turn in to utter gits when they can't get their fix.

So, alcohol means you can do utterly retarded stuff and pot can make you smoke your life away.


Surely it's just a matter of keeping things in proportion for both.

[DemonArchangel]

I would have to say weed.

I cook with alcohol!

[Fragony]

Weed isn't very addictive. Alcohol is a whole lot worse.

[Kraxis]

You can cook with weed too...

Anyway, I said both.
As far as I know you can only die from an alcohol overdose, not a THC (active ingredient) overdose. At least one that is selfinduced.

Having tried both I can tell you this much, weed is fun, but it soon gets old (I can't be bothered with it now), and it is hard to enjoy it is small doses (like a single glass of wine or beer, or even a scotch).
But to say it is the entire activity of the day is to equate it to the drunkards on the street. Yes, that is so with some, just like it is so with the drunkards. But are all who drink alcohol addicted? I severely doubt it. I can go weeks even months without drinking any alcohol, but I do drink it and I get drunk too. Perhaps more previously than now.

Both can be enjoyed without making them a problem for the person. Trouble comes if the person has nothing to do, besides indulging in these substances. We can see the effects of repeated abuse of alcohol on our streets quite often, but seldomly weed. But of course both can send people sprawling on the streets (lost house and so on).
Here alcohol wins because it is cheaper due to being legal. If weed was legal it would actually be cheaper than most alcohol.

[monkian]

I know a family who just lost their house because they couldn't afford their mortgage and their heavy pot habit.

The parents do little but smoke pot and go to work and one of their kids (who is a heavy heavy pot smoker) just sits in his room and plays video games and gets high all day like he has for the past 8 years.



*cough* rubbish*cough*

[Fragony]

*cough* rubbish*cough*

Ya, pot isn't even physically addictive. Seems to me that family had other hobby's.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I reckon psychological dependence works.

I suppose nobody else knows stoners who spend all their money and time on getting high and doing nothing else.

*cough* you don't know them *cough*

[edyzmedieval]

Both are crack. They suck big time.

[ah_dut]

I've seen stoned people and I've seen smashed people, I'd rather hang around with the stoners but in excess both are bad...simple eh? As to which one's worse? I have no idea. I tend to see more smashed people then stoners. Though I will say house parties wouldn't be as fun without drunk idiots to laugh at (I'm a teetotaller because I find I seem to be allergic to alchohol)

[Fragony]

I reckon psychological dependence works.

In that case there are probably people that got thrown out of their houses for their coffee addiction.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

coffee is somewhat cheaper than pot

[Fragony]

coffee is somewhat cheaper than pot

And more addictive as well.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Do any of you know why most people check themselves into a rehab center for addiction. Its not for alcohol or pot or coke or even herion. Its for sex. The most addictive thing on the planet.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

anyway, true story, sure there were a few more factors involved than pot but the ridiculously heavy pot consumption was their major extravagance and the person in charge of the finances didn't tell anybody else that they weren't in the best situation and so they continued to spend loads of money on the cannabis.

I don't know if they could be described as addicted though. They sure are moody without it.

[Fragony]

anyway, true story, sure there were a few more factors involved than pot but the ridiculously heavy pot consumption was their major extravagance and the person in charge of the finances didn't tell anybody else that they weren't in the best situation and so they continued to spend loads of money on the cannabis.

I don't know if they could be described as addicted though. They sure are moody without it.

Bit impolite of me to question your story. The effect of the drug tends to make people a bit ez when it comes to priorities. But in itselve it is pretty harmless; certainly not as damaging as alcohol.

edit, same as on ttlg or frag confused.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

the good news is that they have their situation sorted out and are still smoking up a storm.

~:cheers:

That one kid still has no life but the pot and videogames though, which is a pretty sad state of affairs.

:(

[monkian]

the good news is that they have their situation sorted out and are still smoking up a storm.

~:cheers:

That one kid still has no life but the pot and videogames though, which is a pretty sad state of affairs.

:(

See now pot and videogames doesnt seem sooooo bad to me ~;)

Sorry to be so abrubt in my earlier post but your story didnt seem particulary realistic to me. I would'nt have questioned it if you had subsituted pot with alcohol as that is a much more common story.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

it's ok, you're from GLC land.

Anyway, yeah, it's not the sort of thing you usually hear of.

[monkian]

it's ok, you're from GLC land.

Anyway, yeah, it's not the sort of thing you usually hear of.

Hehehe, used to work with one of them actually - the older bloke with the beard. Used work in Technical Support with me ~;)

[BDC]

Alcohol definately. By a long long way.

But it's legal, so you'll only go to prison for being drunk/violent/rude rather than for actually using it.

Ah, the logic behind the law...

[Red Harvest]

Do any of you know why most people check themselves into a rehab center for addiction. Its not for alcohol or pot or coke or even herion. Its for sex. The most addictive thing on the planet.
Imagine how surprised they are when they learn that the rehab clinic doesn't *provide* sex.

"Excuse me, there must be some sort of mistake. If I'm spending this much money I'm expecting a bit more action." ~D

[Divinus Arma]

I voted alcohol. I've done it all and stopped long long long ago, but I understand the propensity to abuse either substance. I just drink now... in case you haven't noticed.~D

I believe alcohol is worse. The effects can take you to blackout. MJ alone cannot (and I know from exp.).

Alcohol impairs your judgement AND inhibitions at the same time, a nightmare combination that makes doing dumb thing seem like a great idea. On the contrary MJ makes you paranoid and affects your perception rather than judgment, resulting in you doubting an idea and being too inhibited to do it either way: much safer.

Alcohol does not MAKE people violent (though tequila would sometimes convince me otherwise), it makes you react more rashly due to the judgment/inhibition combo. I have NEVER seen someone on pot get violent (and I have seen aplenty); I instead see them whine and surrender the argument.

You can overdose on alcohol and die. You can overdose on pot and fall asleep comfortably.

The bottom line: Alcohol contributes to aggression but has less effects on material motivation. Marijuana decreases aggression and makes people fat and lazy. On any day of the week I would rather be surrounded by fat, lazy, stupid, happy stoners then a bunch of angry drunks spoiling for a fight.

edit: Addiction.
Alcohol is proven to be physically addictive resulting in the degenerative disease we all know and love called alcoholism.
Marijuana just feels so good that users want to do it all the time because they enjoy it so much. It is not physically addictive. They just like it. For some it is an occassional thing, for many it becomes a hobby shared with friends, for still others it becomes a lifestyle choice.

[Red Harvest]

The main problem with weed has been that it mellows folks out too much, sucks away their drive. Compared to alcohol, it is pretty mild, as the hardcore pot smokers I knew in college could still ace difficult engineering exams, while the alcoholics were lucky to pass their tests.

One answer for violent offenders: *require* them to smoke pot as a way of mellowing them out.

The really hardcore stuff like heroin, replaces everything else in peoples lives.

[Byzantine Prince]

Some of you guys are admitted criminals! ~:eek:

LOL!

Neither is good or bad. They are just there. If you feel like it you can try both and then decide if it's worth doing again. I find that things people call addictive are only addictive because those people are weak or are really sensitive to things like that. I've smoked cigarettes, cigars, I've drunk a lot of booze, and I would not crave any of it again until my crappy friends wanted to do it again because they are addicted.

As for me, I get high out of my own censory addiction to philosophy. I remember my first Nietzsche, it was so enthralling I almost thought I was God for a second. ~:)

[Geoffrey S]

I voted alcohol. In general that's the more destructive of the two options with regard to other people, whereas stoned people just tend to sit around and stuff. But on a personal basis both are bad in excess, as are most things.

[Byzantine Prince]

You guys don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what others do. Even if it affects you!

It's their choice to be the way they are, just like you choose to not drink to much or eat too much. It's all about personal choice.

Neither pot nor alcohol are destructive.

Now philosophy on the other hand can make people do some crazy things.

*Remembers time BP sprayed 'God is dead' all over church* :laugh4:

[Hurin_Rules]

They can both be very dangerous, but I'd have to say alcohol is slightly worse. I have two main reasons:

1. You cannot overdose on weed.

2. Alcohol makes some people violent, whereas I have never seen or heard of weed alone having this effect. Weed just makes you hungry. They actually did a study once where they were testing the effects of weed and alcohol on drivers. People who were drunk drove over the limit and took dangerous chances; the people on weed drove under the limit and hugged the curb :)

So, I'd have to go with alcohol, while recognizing that both can be dangerous: alcohol to the individual and society, weed more just to the individual.

[Del Arroyo]

To be honest, I can't honestly say I've ever witnessed an episode of alcohol-induced violence. And I've certainly spent plenty of time in places where you'd expect it to occur. Perhaps that's because the vast majority of my drinking experience has been in Mexico, with Mexicans and hippies, who are both very happy drunks.

So actually, I'm going to go out alone here and call rubbish on the alcohol-violence link. If you're not looking for a fight in the first place, no amount of alcohol will find you one. People who get drunk and get in fights have in most cases planned it that way, or were at least open to the idea.

DA

[Tribesman]

Alcohol is by far the worst , you have to pay tax on it .

[Tachikaze]

I agree with what Ah Dut said.

I voted that alcohol is worse. I'd rather be around stoners than drinkers, especially here where the young men are such angry, violent drunks. Marijuana tends to mellow people out and make them less violent and aggressive. Our government could use more of it.

On the other hand, I must say that this is one area where I disagree with Monkian. I have seen the longterm effects of Marijuana on my friends, and it's sad. They all have dull facial expressions, are slow, and are not nearly as quick in the mind. That's a real shame because almost all of them used to be such sharp, intelligent people.

There's one who used to be good competition in games. Now, he's easy to deceive and trick. He makes obviously bad moves. Sometimes, he has trouble thinking of simple solutions to daily problems, even though he designs radio-controlled airplanes. Other friends stare into space a lot. They are less aware of things around them and even when someone is speaking to them.

Ask them and they are completely unaware of their limitations, but it's obvious to the rest of us.

That said, I'd rather people used marijuana than alcohol. Neither are bad in small quantities. Alcohol has a perfectly good place in society.

By the way, I've never tried marijuana, even though I hung around with stoners all through high school. I have had contact highs, I'm sure, but never direct intake. I don't like the taste of any alcohol, so I get no pleasure from it. I just reluctantly drink it for ceremonial reasons, like weddings and Japanese customs.

What do I do for fun? I use music, exercise, good conversation, and good sensuality to get high.

[Craterus]

I agree with the people that have said alcohol is worse. It is.

But weed is not good either. Smoking (cigarettes) should be banned, if you were to ban alcohol.

[AntiochusIII]

I agree with the people that have said alcohol is worse. It is.

But weed is not good either. Smoking (cigarettes) should be banned, if you were to ban alcohol.Considering I am a teetotaler and non-smoker, I advocate banning both. But since I am more liberal than many in terms of social issue, I could not bring myself to advocate banning both against my principles. See the paradox? Weed and alcohol are bad. Alcohol is worse in terms of it being more damaging to society (just observe all the drunk drivers out there.) I vote both are just as bad. Unfortunately, so many people are, sadly, relying on alcohol in everyday life that banning it could've caused another prohibition period.

However, considering the laws around these, I found them to be highly hypocritical, even if I understand the motives behind them. Why ban "weed" (different from cigarettes a bit, though I hate both, with cigarettes being more passionately so--it harms me with more nicotin in my lungs when it's them smoking the damn thing everywhere; I could've claimed that I feel threatened and stab them if I'm in Florida--pot I've been less exposed to) that can only really harm an individual (which many, including me, would argue for his/her personal liberty/responsiblity) while alcohol, which continuously causes side effect damages, are legal?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I voted for "pot" as the worse of the two -- but the both option was quite tempting.

My experience with alchohol is both personal and familial, with marijuana its familial and vicarious through friends and acquaintances.

As noted above, the long term physical effects of prolonged drinking at moderate or better levels can be devastating. Alcohol is more likely to kill through poisoning death than is marijuana. As a mood alterer, alcohol is more likely to trigger aggression and violence.

Both alter a person's physical reactions and judgement. Thus either can make it unwise to drive etc. Both are more problematic when used to excess than when used in moderation.

Marijauna use, since smoking is the primary form of use, can also be associated with lung cancer and other long term pulmonary problems, but does not trigger diabetes or some of the things alcohol does. The mood/attitude alteration effects of marijauna can last substantially longer than those associated with alcohol -- in part precisely because the physical side effects are less debilitating.

Which leads to my vote: I have known too many bright people who used MJ, and ended up trashing years of their life as a consequence. One example is a younger brother who started enjoying "weed" in college, and then "woke up" 6 or so years later realizing that he had accomplished absolutely nothing of worth in the interim. He received no lasting harm, he did not alter his genes, he even managed to get a degree (on autopilot as his grades indicated). But he managed to achieve zork toward having a useful and productive life and was playing "catch up" for years.
The clear majority of those getting drunk on weekends pretty much give up drinking after a few years, but the side-effects of drinking mean that most people do not stay drunk for long and get lots of stuff done when not -- not so the other "substance." Sadly, the one's who go on years-long "vacations" with marijuana tend to be the brighter ones, magnifying the loss for them and for all of us.

Seamus

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Weed.

First of all, it's illegal. That means it's bad, usually. 9 times out of 10 at least. Also, weed causes Cancer, and gives people around you cancer. It causes the munchies and makes people incredibly thin.

Alcohol, on the other hand, tastes good, is ok as long as you don't get smashed, only punishes the liver, and best of all, is at least semi-legal!

[Redleg]

In moderation neither is really a problem for the individual.

Achocol has a benefit of helping the blood system when used in moderation.

Pot has a medical benefit for easing some pain associated with several conditions.

Used in extreme or in excess both are bad. Because of this extremes society suffers because of it.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Actually (I don't smoke the stuff), weed is no more likely to cause cancer than cigarettes. Indeed, far less likely. And, it does not make one thin. It increases estrigen levels, and will actually make you chubby. Man boobs and all. It can also be linked to impotence.
Did I ever say Ciggerrettes were good for society? ~;)

Also, if it makes a chance of less babies (alcohol makes a chance for more babies), then it's bad when we have enemies like China! ~:cheers:

[Togakure]

Abuse of alcohol is far more damaging to individuals and to society than the abuse of marijuana, imo.


"The sheer number of patients in my local mental-health hospital suffering from cannabis related break downs and other problems stemming from its missuse is testament to only one thing ... "

Can you provide any documentation to support this statement? Where is this mental health hospital? Is it public, or privately owned by a religious institution? The idea of "cannibis-related break downs" seems utterly absurd to me. It smells of brainwashing propaganda ... .

In uni we debated this topic at length. The overwhelming majority of the class accepted that thousands of deaths and serious illnesses can be directly attributed to alcohol abuse, and that this was not the case with marijuana abuse. We had a doctor come in and speak about it, and he affirmed this opinion.


Neither is good or bad. They are just there.
Agreed. It's abuse by humans--the lack of common sense and self-control--that is problematic. Kinda like the situ with guns ... but hey, so many get off on wanting to control others, "playing God" by dictating what others should or should not do. Is anyone surprised that the slower, more difficult path of evolving our sense of personal responsibility falls by the wayside?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Quality over quantity. Although whoever is in charge of the military seems determined to shoot down all the good stuff with the excuse of "The Cold War is Over."
Tell the spartans at Thermopolaye that...wait...They're dead! ~:)

[Byzantine Prince]

Agreed. It's abuse by humans--the lack of common sense and self-control--that is problematic. Kinda like the situ with guns ... but hey, so many get off on wanting to control others, "playing God" by dictating what others should or should not do. Is anyone surprised that the slower, more difficult path of evolving our sense of personal responsibility falls by the wayside?
YEY! Toga is back! ~:cheers:

How's everything going?

[Quietus]

Both are bad for your health.

Ironically, cigarettes are deadlier than both.

[Soulforged]

Actually (I don't smoke the stuff), weed is no more likely to cause cancer than cigarettes. Indeed, far less likely. And, it does not make one thin. It increases estrigen levels, and will actually make you chubby. Man boobs and all. It can also be linked to impotence.
What?~:eek: The studies show the contrary even the ones that link marihuana at all with cancer. Here's one that shows the contrary: link (http://www.counterpunch.org/gardner07022005.html).
Marihuana has no considerable or significant effect on cancer production.~:cool:

[King Henry V]

Pot has a medical benefit for easing some pain associated with several conditions.

So does morphine. Should that be made readily available?

[Craterus]

So does morphine. Should that be made readily available?

Did he say that it should? I don't think so. He was just posting a good thing that weed does.

Alcohol, however, doesn't really have an advantage...

[Soulforged]

So does morphine. Should that be made readily available?
No it should be available wheter it causes pain or pleasure, or both, what's your point?~:confused:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Bad example. The Spartans didn't have tanks and airplanes.
True, lol, but it is a Quality over Quantity example. What if the Persians did have tanks ~D
Now I'm just getting silly.

[King Henry V]

IMO pot is bad because it scrambles you brain and can lead to schyzophrenia as well as cancer. I think that as we are getting ever stricter with smoking, this is not the time to get softer on cannabis. It also has a most repugnant stink.
Alcohol is bad only when too much is consumed. A glass of alcohol every evening is not as bad for you as a joint every night. However, when used extremely, alcohol can be more damagin, so I think that both are as bad as each other.

[King Henry V]

Did he say that it should? I don't think so. He was just posting a good thing that weed does.

Alcohol, however, doesn't really have an advantage...
No, but what many people have siad is that "marijuana is ok because it cna help with pain". So does morphine.

[Steppe Merc]

Booze is worse. It seems to me it is causes far more often negative affects. And it isn't as fun.



IMO pot is bad because it scrambles you brain and can lead to schyzophrenia as well as cancer. I think that as we are getting ever stricter with smoking, this is not the time to get softer on cannabis. It also has a most repugnant stink.
It doesn't smell bad! It smells way better than damn cigarrettes. Pot smells very good. Alchol smells worse than pot.

And what proof is there that it causes scizophrenia? Alcholism is really bad, btw. You can't get addicted to pot, but you certaintly can to alchol. I have a large history of alcholism in my family, and it's not pretty.

[Divinus Arma]

After reading everybody's comments, I think this poll needs to be modified. Which is worse for society and which is worse for the individual. There is a big difference.

[Divinus Arma]

Alcohol, however, doesn't really have an advantage...

The advantage of alcohol is clear:

It makes me drunk and then I post ridiculous nonsense.

[Craterus]

You can post nonsense without alcohol, therfore, no advantage. ~;)

[King Henry V]

Booze is worse. It seems to me it is causes far more often negative affects. And it isn't as fun.


It doesn't smell bad! It smells way better than damn cigarrettes. Pot smells very good. Alchol smells worse than pot.

And what proof is there that it causes scizophrenia? Alcholism is really bad, btw. You can't get addicted to pot, but you certaintly can to alchol. I have a large history of alcholism in my family, and it's not pretty.
Pot ,IMO, has a horrible, sickly sweet smell that makes me want to puke. Cigarettes don't do that, but I can't really breathe with smoke in my face. Then again, you can't really breathe when you want to puke. Alacohol can smell bad (like bad wine or something), but it does not have an over powering stench.You can get addicted to pot in the way that you begin to really miss the effects of the drug. And from articles that I have read, cannabis can cause schizophrenia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4305783.stm

[Kanamori]

It makes me drunk and then I post ridiculous nonsense.

When I tried to argue with Pindar about the definition of 'but' while I was inebriated, I made a rule for not posting like that again.~:) Of course, there was that time when I thought it would be a good idea to break the rule in one of Hurin's threads, but it turned out that it wasn't a good idea after all.:embarassed:

[Del Arroyo]

The advantage of alcohol is clear:

It makes me drunk and then I post ridiculous nonsense.

The really funny thing is that I actually never suspected this before ~;p

A few things do make alot more sense now...

DA

[Divinus Arma]

The really funny thing is that I actually never suspected this before ~;p

A few things do make alot more sense now...

DA

Then you must have missed my loss of sense a couple months ago...

Whew. I racked up more warnings then Will Robinson on his way to the bathroom!

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Booze is worse. It seems to me it is causes far more often negative affects. And it isn't as fun.


It doesn't smell bad! It smells way better than damn cigarrettes. Pot smells very good. Alchol smells worse than pot.

And what proof is there that it causes scizophrenia? Alcholism is really bad, btw. You can't get addicted to pot, but you certaintly can to alchol. I have a large history of alcholism in my family, and it's not pretty.
Booze isn't as fun! Booze is the ball! You can do fun things like get drunk and lose a friend at a pothead festival during a school-sponsored event! :pirate:

[Steppe Merc]

Booze isn't as fun! Booze is the ball! You can do fun things like get drunk and lose a friend at a pothead festival during a school-sponsored event! :pirate:
Yeah, or be like my friend, get drunk, pass out at a school football game, go to the hospital to get your stomach pumped, get suspended, have your car impounded, not be able to go on the school trip to Disney World, and be grounded for the next 6 months. Yay.

Oh, and pot smells wonderful. It just smells great. My dad agrees with me on the smell, that cigarrettes smell way worse. If I'm at a concert, and I'm not smoking, the smell of pot always cheers me up, gets me in the right refrence.

[PanzerJaeger]

Both are forms of escapism. If you have an enjoyable life, I dont know why you would need to spend money getting a high off of anything.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Both are forms of escapism. If you have an enjoyable life, I dont know why you would need to spend money getting a high off of anything.
Because it's fun...duh ~:)

[Ice]

Meh, I'd outlaw both. All they seem to do is cause trouble, atleast from my personal experiences. Reason why I refuse to do either.

[bmolsson]

Couldn't we use the same arguments as when we discuss gun control. Drugs and booze doesn't make people addicited, people that use it are the real offenders...... ~;)

[Steppe Merc]

Because it's fun...duh ~:)
Yup. ~D
As for escapism, isn't that why we do anything? Why we read, why we watch tv or play video games?
Of course taken to the extreme, its bad. Many people who suffered from depression in the past were alcholics, because it helped relieve them of their pain. They ended up dying miserable, and well drunk. But people who only watch to much tv or do video games can end up messed up too.

As for increased chance of cancer, well, that's the persons choice if they want to gamble.

[Ice]

Couldn't we use the same arguments as when we discuss gun control. ~;)

Guns have useful purposes though. Alcohol and weed don't, other then to get screw up your senses. Guns, are a another situation.

[AntiochusIII]

You can post nonsense without alcohol, therfore, no advantage. ~;)Exactly. I believe Abokasee is never drunk. ~D

Also, it is my belief that pot is addictive psychologically. While alcohol is both.

Well, asking those who advocate (and practice, i.e. "do") alcohol and pot, and they'd say both have useful purposes...

And, OMFG, I hate the smell of cigarettes.

[Soulforged]

Bias BS. I'm sorry, but all addictions come at a price, and that's one of them. Too much pot causes cancer. Too much cigarattes cause cancer. Heck, too much soda causes esophegial (sp?) cancer.
Bias BS based on what? Your statement appears to be a infamous Murphy's Law.~D ("but all addictions come at a price, and that's one of them")

[Papewaio]

Both are forms of escapism. If you have an enjoyable life, I dont know why you would need to spend money getting a high off of anything.

Stat! Use the paddles! Clear! beep beep beep.

I thought I just read something that I agreed with Panzer... oh there it is... oww there is a huge pain in my left arm like someone has put it in a vice and ohhh look at the light

beeeeeeeeepppppppppppppppp. St Peter :book2: hmmm this :angel: or that :devil: ... hmmm

====

Although it almost kills me to admit it, I agree with Panzer.

[Kanamori]

If you can do it responsibly, and it is fun responsibly, why should you rely exclusively on other things that are fun? Its a different type of fun, that's why people do them.

[Divinus Arma]

If you can do it responsibly, and it is fun responsibly, why should you rely exclusively on other things that are fun? Its a different type of fun, that's why people do them.

Exactly. Is reading a book escapism? What about video games? Computers? The internet?~:eek:

Drink a beer, have a toke, watch a ball game, have sex, eat a hot dog. Whatever. All of them are great. And all of them can destroy your life if you take them to excess.

That is the key: excess.

[PanzerJaeger]

Apples and oranges. Reading a book or playing a video game does not alter your state of mind.

Why do you drink at a social gathering.. or alone? To change yourself. I dont need to change my state of mind to have a good time or enjoy life. Im not saying its bad to do so either..




Although it almost kills me to admit it, I agree with Panzer.

This situation has to be fixed.. and fast! Hmm.. ok here we go:

German soldiers were 10 times better than Australian soldiers in WW2.

That should remedy this strange occurance of agreement. ;)

[Byzantine Prince]

Both are forms of escapism. If you have an enjoyable life, I dont know why you would need to spend money getting a high off of anything.
You answered your own argument. If I had an enjoyable life... I wouldn't need drugs. But having an enjoyable life is pretty rare, and pretty subjective isn't it Panzer?

[Papewaio]

This situation has to be fixed.. and fast! Hmm.. ok here we go:

German soldiers were 10 times better than Australian soldiers in WW2.

That should remedy this strange occurance of agreement. ;)

If we are talking snappier uniforms, salutes and lack of back chat to officers then yes the German soldiers were 10 times better. :bow:

[mystic brew]

Booze is worse. It seems to me it is causes far more often negative affects. And it isn't as fun.

It doesn't smell bad! It smells way better than damn cigarrettes. Pot smells very good. Alchol smells worse than pot.

And what proof is there that it causes scizophrenia? Alcholism is really bad, btw. You can't get addicted to pot, but you certaintly can to alchol. I have a large history of alcholism in my family, and it's not pretty.

absolutely agreed with most what you say, and i can't furnish you with precise data, though according to my friend, a psychiatric doctor studying and working closely with these things, he says the evidence is pretty clear that although MJ doesn't cause psychiatric illnesses, it is a trigger if there is an underlying tendency.

decent overview from the British Medical Journal here:
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/325/7374/1183

a problem, currently in both alcohol and MJ is a trend towards strength. beers and alcohopops are becoming stronger. In the UK, a demographic change of ale towards lager seems innocuous enough. Ale's 20 years ago were at an average of 3.4%, while premium lagers now are up at 4.8-5%.

In a similar, though even more extreme way brands of dope have gained strength, hydroponic skunks and so on. some estimates have put the increase since the 60s at 6-7fold, but it's hard to gauge.

[Tribesman]

a problem, currently in both alcohol and MJ is a trend towards strength. beers and alcohopops are becoming stronger. In the UK, a demographic change of ale towards lager seems innocuous enough. Ale's 20 years ago were at an average of 3.4%, while premium lagers now are up at 4.8-5%.

Yet if you look further back than 20 years many beers were stronger than the 4.8-5% and if you look into it , it was normal to drink a gallon a day of 8% beer starting with breakfast . Ever drunk any of the Trappist stuff ? Not surprising they have a vow of silence , who knows what sort of drunken rubbish they would be talking after drinking that .~;)
Oh and alcopops are not stronger , just a more expensive way of buying spirits diluted with fizzy stuff , a successful marketing ploy to exploit the idiots .

[Kraxis]

Guys we can't discuss subjective oppinions, such as smell. We can use them as arguments but we can't tell another that he is wrong for his smell of things.

Personally I prefer pot-smell over tobacco (reversed if it is unburnt though, then tobacco is very pleasing to my nostrils).
I'm an odd person when it comes to the use of pot. I have always been an adamant anti-smoker (personally, couldn't care less about others), but I did smoke that. Perhaps that was part of my reason for stopping? I don't know.

While I think cancer has a higher chance of settling in in your lungs if you smoke pot (you can eat and drink it too, which are very safe ways), it is certain that alcohol will destroy your liver at some point. Alcohol slowly destroys it, it is not based on chance as with cancer. Thus if you a are a heavy drinker you shold be very concerned really. Some can take much more than others in regards to liverdestruction but it will come eventually.
Not so with the cancer. So I think the point goes to pot there.

Alcohol doesn't make you aggressive per se, but you are going to react much stronger. You might flinch and become much more fearful (and we all know the crying drunk right?) or you might react with aggression to something that would only slightly annoy you.
I have never been in a fight I did anything to start (I had to defend myself from unprovoked attacks though), but once when I was drunk I nearly exploded with anger when a guy kept pushing me in the back (not intentionally of course). Had I not been a normally extremely calm guy I think I would have flattened him (he was even more drunk than me so I think it is a safe bet). That wa not normal an I would never have reacted similarly if I was sober.
But once when I was stoned a guy intentionally pissed on my leg, and I couldn't help but laugh at it, it just seemed so increadibly stupid and silly. I think had I been drunk I would have gone at his throat right away. Had I been sober I think I would have too.
Add to that that I have seen far too much alcoholaffected aggression caused by normally calm guys.

Alcohol makes you unstable if you drink above a certain limit.

On the other hand you CAN get psychoses from pot, but they are rare and not much of a factor in this discussion.

From personal experience I will say that the only reason to not TRY pot or similar product (MJ, hashis ect ect) is because it is illegal. Not other point really as a single spliff simply don't do damage of any kind worth mentioning. To say it would lead to many more is wrong as you just need to be firm on it, like with alcohol or cakes or soda or too much food... You get the point.

Personally I would prefer it getting lagalized. Earn money from it and control it. Perfect.

Oh will that cause widespread usage??? Not at all, Holland has one of the lowest 'tried' rates for pot in Europe.

[Soulforged]

While I think cancer has a higher chance of settling in in your lungs if you smoke pot No.
Personally I would prefer it getting lagalized. Earn money from it and control it. Perfect.
~:cheers:

Oh will that cause widespread usage??? It doesn't matter.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

LaGuardia Report Turns 50:

The massive research project was carried out by a team of scientists from the New York Academy of Medicine and the commissioners of the New York Departments of Correction, Health, and Hospitals. It was the most thorough, extensive marijuana fact-finding mission since the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission released its monumental report in 1894.

The LaGuardia Report was comprised of a series of studies -- from sociological observations to controlled, scientific studies involving the consumption of marijuana by subjects in a laboratory setting. Among the report's conclusions:

Mental Illness -- "Indulgence in marihuana does not appear to result in mental deterioration. ... Marihuana does not change the basic personality structure of the individual. It lessens inhibition and this brings out what is latent in his thoughts and emotions but it does not evoke responses which would otherwise be totally alien to him."
Violence -- "There was no aggressive or violent behavior observed."
Crime -- "Marihuana is not the determining factor in the commission of major crimes. Juvenile delinquency is not associated with the practice of smoking marihuana."
Addiction -- "The practice of smoking marihuana does not lead to addiction in the medical sense of the word."
Gateway to Hard Drugs -- "We have been unable to confirm ... that marihuana smoking is the first step in the use of such drugs as cocaine, morphine, and heroin. The instances are extremely rare where the habit of marihuana smoking is associated with addiction to these other narcotics."
In sum, the report stressed, "The publicity concerning the catastrophic effects of marihuana smoking in New York City is unfounded." The depth and thoroughness of the study make these conclusions relevant beyond 1940s New York.

The LaGuardia Report provided invaluable descriptive data and dispelled many of the myths which led to the prohibition of marijuana. Nevertheless, it was essentially ignored and had virtually no effect on the burgeoning national policy of prohibition.




Do most of you know this war on drugs started as a form of racism and an excuse to send Mexican immigrants back to Mexico? The guy who started it was a bureacrat whos main interest was making his bureau bigger.

It seems cocaine was fine until rumors of cocaine crazed negroes rapping white women and impervious to bullets started appearing in places like the New York Times. I see not much has changed since then.~D


NEGRO COCAINE "FIENDS" NEW SOUTHERN MENACE

New York Times, Sunday February 8, 1914

Murder and Insanity Increasing Among Lower Class Because They Have Taken to "Sniffing" Since Being Deprived of Whisky by Prohibition

Edward Huntington Williams, M.D.

For some years there have been rumors about the increase in drug taking in the South-vague, but always insistent rumors that the addiction to such drugs as morphine and cocaine was becoming a veritable curse to the colored race in certain regions. Some of these reports read like the wildest flights of a sensational fiction writer. Stories of cocaine orgies and "sniffing parties" followed by wholesale murders seem like lurid journalism of the yellowest variety



But these comparisons, although sufficiently startling, fail to show the extent of drug addiction in the South. For most of these insane drug users, both North and South, were the victims of morphine; whereas the negro drug "fiend" uses cocaine almost exclusively.


Proof against Bullets.

But the drug produces several other conditions which make the "fiend" a peculiarly dangerous criminal. One of these conditions is a temporary immunity to shock--a resistance to the knockdown effects of fatal wounds.

Bullets fired into vital parts, that would drop a sane man in his tracks, fail to check the "fiend"--fail to stop his rush or weaken his attack.

A few weeks ago Dr. Crile's method of preventing shock in anaesthetized patients by use of a cocaine preparation was described in these columns. A similar fortification against this condition seems to be produced in the cocaine-sniffing negro.



Why Do They Do It?

Many of the negroes, even those who have not yet become addicted, appreciate the frightful penalty of dabbling with the drug. Why, then do so many of them "dabble"?

There are various facts that suggest an answer to this question, and evidence in the form or the opinions of physicians, officers, and the cocaine users themselves, that supports these facts. The "fiend" when questioned, frequently gives his reason in this brief sentence: ''Cause I couldn't git nothin' else, boss." That seems to be the crux of the whole matter.

A brief survey of conditions in the South and a bit of recent legislative history make it perfectly evident why the negro "couldn't git nothin' else."

But meanwhile these politicians have forced a new and terrible form of slavery upon thousands of colored men--a hideous bondage from which they cannot escape by mere proclamation or civil war.



http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/negro_cocaine_fiends.htm

A History of U.S. Drug Laws
- or -
How did we get into this mess? Part 1: 1898-1933

http://www.dpft.org/history.html

And heres the racism in the pot laws

Even when it was not against the law, marijuana was used by very few Americans. Those who used it were typically from minority groups like the Mexicans and the Negroes, and this made them and their drug preferences highly visible. The fact that these people smoked marijuana for pleasure made marijuana a vice that was doubly suspect, since the American work ethic never recognized anything like an "artificial paradise".

Marihuana and Violence

As the most conspicuous users of marihuana, Mexicans were oftentimes accused of being incited to violence by the drug. A letter written in 1911 by the American consul at Nogales, Mexico, stated that marihuana "causes the smoker to become exceedingly pugnacious and to run amuck without discrimination." [7] A Texas police captain claimed that under marihuana's baneful influence, Mexicans became "very violent, especially when they become angry and will attack an officer even if a gun is drawn on him. They seem to have no fear, I have also noted that when under the influence of this weed they have enormous strength and that it will take several men to handle one man while under ordinary circumstances one man could handle him with ease." [8]

Prison officials throughout the southwest had no doubt about marihuana's capacity to provoke violence. In the words of the warden of the state prison in Yuma, Arizona: "Under its baseful influence reckless men become bloodthirsty, terribly daring, and dangerous to an uncontrollable degree." [9]

The Butte Montana Standard reflected the thinking of the state's legislators when they outlawed marihuana in 1927:

When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff... he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies." [10]




http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/first12000/11.htm

[Strike For The South]

You answered your own argument. If I had an enjoyable life... I wouldn't need drugs. But having an enjoyable life is pretty rare, and pretty subjective isn't it Panzer?


Maybe your standerds are to high

[Del Arroyo]

Once again I will reiterate that I've never witnessed alcohol-related violence. Once my alcoholic roomate burst into my room and started yelling and punching the wall over some silly drama to do with some girl (which eventually proved to be a misunderstanding), and given the hour that was probably after six or eight 40's.

On the other hand, I will never forget the time a son of a friend of the family came to Guadalajara and I showed him around the town. We were seated in an outdoor cafe in the middle of the day. Some old bedraggled homeless guy came up to the railing and started talking shit to us in Spanish, and I SHIT YOU NOT, this guy came THIS CLOSE to jumping the bleeping railing and stomping on this poor old homeless guy in the middle of this huge bleeping plaza. He was literally looking over at me to see if I would come too. STONE COLD SOBER.

I suppose you might chalk that up to the lingering effects of heavy LSD use when he was younger, though.

DA

[Byzantine Prince]

Maybe your standerds are to high
~:rolleyes:

That's why I said that having an enjoyable life is subjective. But it's also very rare. I hate how I am forced to be redundant all the time just so people understand what the hell I'm talking about.

[Strike For The South]

~:rolleyes:

That's why I said that having an enjoyable life is subjective.

so what do you want out of life?

[Del Arroyo]

Also, Panzer: for me, book-reading v. substance-use in moderation is apples to apples. When you read a book you're high on dopamine, when you go for a run you're high on endorphins, when you bungee jump you're high in adrenaline.

DA

[Strike For The South]

~:rolleyes:

That's why I said that having an enjoyable life is subjective. But it's also very rare. I hate how I am forced to be redundant all the time just so people understand what the hell I'm talking about.

How do you know its very rare it is subjective isnt it~;)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

If we are talking snappier uniforms, salutes and lack of back chat to officers then yes the German soldiers were 10 times better. :bow:
Question: Are you effectivly saying that Germans were bad fighters in WWII or just saying that their politics were bad or somthing totally differant?

[ichi]

Exactly. Is reading a book escapism? What about video games? Computers? The internet?

Drink a beer, have a toke, watch a ball game, have sex, eat a hot dog. Whatever. All of them are great. And all of them can destroy your life if you take them to excess.

That is the key: excess.

Well said DA, very very true


Once again I will reiterate that I've never witnessed alcohol-related violence.

I've seen way too much; I've seen people almost killed because they got drunk and pissed off a bigger, stronger drunk. I've also seen drunks, and sober alcoholics, send their wimmen to the emergency room or had the cops come.


~:rolleyes:

That's why I said that having an enjoyable life is subjective. But it's also very rare. I hate how I am forced to be redundant all the time just so people understand what the hell I'm talking about.

No doubt

ichi:bow:

[PanzerJaeger]

You answered your own argument. If I had an enjoyable life... I wouldn't need drugs. But having an enjoyable life is pretty rare, and pretty subjective isn't it Panzer?

Yep, I would wager most people are not happy or content. Hence the :barrel:. If that gets you through your day, then have at it.


Also, Panzer: for me, book-reading v. substance-use in moderation is apples to apples. When you read a book you're high on dopamine, when you go for a run you're high on endorphins, when you bungee jump you're high in adrenaline.

Well not exactly. Reading a book, running, or even bungee jumping are all done without changing your state of mind. Natural chemical shifts are not comparable to getting "high" when refering to alcohol or pot. A good test is whether you can stop what you are doing and function in a normal manner withen seconds.

Ask yourself why you spend your hard earned money to drink or smoke pot. Why do you need to change your state of mind that severly if you are already happy? Whether its to escape from life for a little while, to help you be comfortable in social situations, or to have fun(or make things seem fun)... its all about changing your state of mind. Why would you do that if your original state of mind was enjoyable?

[Byzantine Prince]

Yep, I would wager most people are not happy or content. Hence the :barrel:. If that gets you through your day, then have at it.
I used to get high on God. ~D




Ask yourself why you spend your hard earned money to drink or smoke pot. Why do you need to change your state of mind that severly if you are already happy? Whether its to escape from life for a little while, to help you be comfortable in social situations, or to have fun(or make things seem fun)... its all about changing your state of mind. Why would you do that if your original state of mind was enjoyable?
Some people feel socially pushed to indulge in those activities. I know for myself that I felt a strong urge to drink myself silly because ALL people talked about after weekends was how drunk they got, and how cool it was. Even if you are intellectually superior to these people, which I feel I was, they're going to have an influence on you.

I honestly don't feel that alcohol alters my state of mind nor does it make me happier. It rather just makes me dizzy and more forward. I feel like I can touch some girls b00b and then not care about it.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Reading a book, running, or even bungee jumping are all done without changing your state of mind. Natural chemical shifts are not comparable to getting "high" when refering to alcohol or pot. A good test is whether you can stop what you are doing and function in a normal manner withen seconds.



Bungee jumping doesnt change your state of mind? Your still using an artificial stimulus to make these chemical shifts. Also it will take you more than a few seconds to recover from bungee jumping. Heck I even get high on playing VI sometimes. I can smoke pot and do anything I normally do perfectly fine. Two beers and Im useless. Its funny I love the show Law and Order. What do the lawyers , judges and cops do at the end of every case? Why they go out and hoist a few.

[Duke Malcolm]

I find that it takes more alcohol than weed to get me useless... I can still operate relatively well after a half bottle of Scotch, but after some pot, then I'm gone...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I find that it takes more alcohol than weed to get me useless... I can still operate relatively well after a half bottle of Scotch, but after some pot, then I'm gone...


I venture you drink more often than you smoke. Anyone who can still operate relatively well after a half bottle of Scotch better check into AA ~D

[Steppe Merc]

PJ, your comments on the need to pay money in order to get high is the main reason I don't smoke reguaulry myself. It's just to expensive. And yes, pot helps people escape. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it isn't all the time.


Some people feel socially pushed to indulge in those activities. I know for myself that I felt a strong urge to drink myself silly because ALL people talked about after weekends was how drunk they got, and how cool it was. Even if you are intellectually superior to these people, which I feel I was, they're going to have an influence on you.
Mabye, but its the persons choice. I probably wouldn't have tried pot if my friends didn't smoke, but they didn't force me. Peer pressure is a too often used excuse, and I find it BS.

[Papewaio]

Question: Are you effectivly saying that Germans were bad fighters in WWII or just saying that their politics were bad or somthing totally differant?

No that the Germans had a different form of discipline which was far more visisble.

I suggest you read up about Australians from the Boer War onwards... an officiers nightmare if you were incompetent.

[Kraxis]

Ask yourself why you spend your hard earned money to drink or smoke pot. Why do you need to change your state of mind that severly if you are already happy? Whether its to escape from life for a little while, to help you be comfortable in social situations, or to have fun(or make things seem fun)... its all about changing your state of mind. Why would you do that if your original state of mind was enjoyable?
That is not the only cause for drinking.

I drink beer for the taste. Whenever I go somewhere I try to get some local beer at least once (if it is crap I leave it alone afterwards of course). I like to think of myself as having good taste in beers. I must admit that I prefer eastern (eastern Europe, called Pilsners because of the region Pilsn) beers a lot, their strong bitterness and rather light taste while long aftertaste is very pleasant. But I also like the soft almost creamy Bavarian beers and a good British ale. I don't like the strong, heavy and often thick Scottish and Irish beers. I can enjoy a Kilkenny now and then though. And I think the sweet and fruity Belgian beers are often too much.
And yes, alcohol is a very important part of the taste. I have tried a lot of either light or non-alcoholic beers, and never have I tried one that I would consider better than a good mediocre beer. So the taste of alcohol is also a reason for drinking.

I must say that pot can't be said to be exactly tasty or similar, it is for pure highs.

Of course I drink heavily at parties and such, but that can be attributed to the relaxed state you get in, and the slower pace of events. Not to say that many things are simply more fun (see similarities to pot?). Besides alcohol contains good deal of energy (half again as much as fat) so you will often be able to stay up longer when drunk... That can of course tip over, so that if you are already tired before drinking you will fall asleep faster, or if you consume too much you will also fall asleep. Careful balance.

[Togakure]

... A good test is whether you can stop what you are doing and function in a normal manner withen seconds. ...
I don't drink much. In reference to the other altered state, I can. I know many who can, and many who can't, so I'm not sure I agree that this would be such a good test. Effects vary from person to person, amount consumed, length of time the person has been a regular consumer, etc.


... that severly ...
For a few, the affects of marijuana might seem "severe," but I would guess that most would consider the effects quite mild. To me, it is a subtle, mellow effect. Admittedly, it's been quite a long time since I've enjoyed it; my current circumstances are not compatible with that activity.


... Why would you do that if your original state of mind was enjoyable?
Some of us enjoy contrasting states of mind, particularly when surroundings or circumstances are enhanced by it. I would not partoke if visiting my family, for example (I take multiple aspirins for that), but if I was going on a backpack trip, watching sunsets from atop a mountain overlooking a lake ... you dig?

For others, it's not so easy to change their surroundings by going somewhere more pleasant. Changing one's state of mind can make unpleasant surroundings or circumstances more bearable, or more interesting. This can be helpful, or harmful, depending on a number of factors.

[Tribesman]

but if I was going on a backpack trip, watching sunsets from atop a mountain overlooking a lake ... you dig?

yep always bring a shovel when backpacking .~;)

[Kraxis]

A special high I think all should try to experience is a full solar eclipse... It is honestly very strange. You do go all giddy and silly. It is hard to explain, but it is great fun and you do feel special that you have witnessed that.

I'm waiting with great hope for the next full eclipse to come to Europe in a few years. Saw the one that passed through northern France in 99 (in Verdun of all places).

[yesdachi]

I think that both are bad in excess but ok if used responsibly. Some people can handle their “high” and others cant. That’s where things get tricky, we can’t regulate laws for each person, “you’re a mean drunk, no booze for you.” or “Sorry, when you get high you are too lazy, its illegal for you.” I’m ok with both being legal and letting people figure it out for themselves but that is kind of irresponsible because I just know letting some people have a drug is like handing them a pair of scissors and telling them to run with um.

Also, I think weed could be just as harmful statistically as alcohol if it was legal and given a chance to affect more people. Imagine if all the millions of people having a drink after work were smoking a fatty instead. Weed alters your mood, releases inhibitions, effects reflexes, etc. It has been my experience that weed is used by people that are usually more prepared for it and are somewhere safe, where alcohol is used anywhere anytime by anyone. I think it is easy to get more drunk than you plan because it takes longer to affect you and when you are thirsty you want to drink and the punch of alcohol can be covered with yummy flavors, I have seen (and been one of the) people drink way more than they planned for all those reasons. But I don’t know anyone that got too high because it tasted good - Loooooong drag… hold it… cough… hold it… let it out… ... ... man, that tasted like Oreos, gimme some more!~D

Anyway, moderation and self-control are key.~:cheers:

[Duke Malcolm]

I venture you drink more often than you smoke. Anyone who can still operate relatively well after a half bottle of Scotch better check into AA ~D

Oh yes. I've only smoked once -- on my last birthday. I only drink in the weekends, though, and rarely to the extent of a half bottle of Scotch.

[ah_dut]

I've seen what Pot did last weekend...it's quite funny if you're not involved. It seems to really muff up the smoker's memory in some cases...I mean these people were wasted and couldn't remember it. Don't ask me why but that's the way it was. Oh and a little alchohol is great on girls ~D

[drone]

The motion picture you are about to witness may startle you. It would not have been possible, otherwise, to sufficently emphasize the frightful toll of the new drug menace which is destroying the youth of America in alarmingly increasing numbers. Marihuana is that drug - a violent narcotic - an unspeakable scourge - The Real Public Enemy Number One! Well, booze never inspired a classic like this.~D

Does anyone know the real truth to why MJ is illegal in the US (outlawed in 1937)? I've heard both that the alchohol companies and textile companies wanted it banned for competition reasons, but that might just stories told by weed-induced paranoids.~;)

Personally, I think that if one is legal than both should be legal. Booze is my drug of choice, it is legal (call me a upstanding citizen...). Make them both legal to 18+, regulated, taxed, and monitored. Maybe even allow "home-brew", for those that want to grow their own private stash. What's the cost to society for arresting/prosecuting/jailing otherwise peaceful potheads? Both have their dangers to society, but I don't think banning both would be beneficial. Moderation, as always, is the key.
~:cheers: ~:smoking: :medievalcheers: :pimp: :barrel:

[Adrian II]

Which do you think is worse for the individual and society and why Pot or Alcohol?The correct answer of course is Gah! Neither are bad for society. Drugs don't kill, steal, cause road accidents or break window panes.

Sex -- now there is a dangerous addiction...~:cool:

[Kraxis]

You know it is illegal to have weed on you in Denmark, but it is not illegal to smoke it.:dizzy2:
So being high is not illegal at all. In fact if the police is coming at you, you better smoke that spliff fast (though in most cases they just take it say "bad man... BAAAD MAN! No more weed for you").

How many people here know the reason for the name Coca Cola? *if you know don't tell :lipsrsealed:*

My experience with weed doesn't leave a hole in my memory any deeper than what alcohol does on a similar high. Butthe fact is it is hard to get just a little affected by weed, while you can get only warm or even just tired of alcohol. So one should treat every time people smoke weed as being quite drunk. Being quite drunk does tend to make the memory go a bit dim.
After all it is a standing joke that every time you drink a shot you kill X amount of braincells. A joke that gets more used the more drunk your company is.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Butthe fact is it is hard to get just a little affected by weed, while you can get only warm or even just tired of alcohol.'

BS. I can smoke weed and have it have no effect at all on me unless its good. Even then I ever get as high as I do on two beers no matter how much I smoke.


How many people here know the reason for the name Coca Cola?

I think just about everyone knows the answer to that.


So one should treat every time people smoke weed as being quite drunk

Again theres little comparison between the two highs.

[Soulforged]

You know it is illegal to have weed on you in Denmark, but it is not illegal to smoke it.:dizzy2:
That type of legal absurdity is well spreaded through the world...

[Steppe Merc]

Well, booze never inspired a classic like this. ~D
Yeah, that movie was hilarious. I watched the recolored version with my family, and it was quite funny how each person's puff of smoke had different colors. Plus the extra mini documentary "Granpa Ganga" was hilarious. ~D

[bmolsson]

problem, currently in both alcohol and MJ is a trend towards strength. .

Isn't that more value for money ?? ~;)