Troop fighting and terrain bonuses

[Knight Templar]

I've been looking for bonuses which units receive when fighting against other particular units or when fighting in particular terrain. Here's what I found:


Terrain and climate bonuses:

desert-desert units (Bedouin camel warriors for example) get +1 att
lush/temperate-desert units receive -1 att penalty
forest-decreases strength of cavarly and spearmen (they lose supporting ranks bonus), decreases accuracy of archers
bridge- decreases cavalry strength ??
rain- decreases archer accuracy, disables handgunners to shoot

Fighing bonuses: (AP not included)

Spearmen-- when fighing against cav +1 att, +4 def; with 2 supporting ranks +1 att, +2 def
Pikemen- against cav +2 att, +6 def; with 4 supporting ranks +2 att, +4 def
Polearms- against cav +3 att, +1 def
Camels- against cav +2 att, +4 def
Swordmen- against spearmen +1 att
Cavalry- against swordsmen +1att


fatigue:
quite tired- -2 att
very tired- -3 att, -1 def
exhausted- -4 att, -2 def
totally exhausted- -6 att, -3 def

Do you know for any other bonuses?

[Weebeast]

Since you didn't mention this, I don't know the exact equation but heavily-armored troops receive a penalty in the desert with the exception of those muslim units.

[Procrustes]

Well, if it's raining or snowing gunpowder units don't work and bows and cross-bows get some kind of penalty. (Arbs don't because they have a steel string?) Sorry I'm not sure of the details.

[ajaxfetish]

Forests hurt ranged units as well as horses and spears because the trees break up their missile fire.

Also bonuses for attacking downhill and penalties for attacking uphill, but I don't know the values (and I think it changes depending on the steepness of the hill).

Low hills impede the fire of units with a fairly flat trajectory such as crossbows, but not standard archers who can employ a higher arc in their firing.

And of course there's the ability to hide in the forests, which can indirectly give the ambush bonus.

Ajax

[Budwise]

You forgot the Cav bonus vs Swordmen. I don't know what it is but I believe there is one.

[Ludens]

Since you didn't mention this, I don't know the exact equation but heavily-armored troops receive a penalty in the desert with the exception of those muslim units.
As far as I know, the desert confers no penalty except for extra fatigue to armoured units. And the Muslims are not exempt from this (except that they are usually less well-armoured).

[crpcarrot]

You forgot the Cav bonus vs Swordmen. I don't know what it is but I believe there is one.

IIRC there is no bonus for cavalry against swords only that spears receive a bonus against cavalry

also ranged unit can only fire if they have line of sight to target so if u place archers in the forest only the ones who can "see" the enemy through the trees will fire although the whole unit will cycle through the annimation.

[Patron]

Spearmen can also stop charging cavalry if they are facing the charge, though spearmen with poor defence will be pushed back.

They also still get their rank bonus in a forest, it is simply less likely for them to get it as the trees force rear ranks into each other and jumble them up making it difficult to get a straight line of 4 men behind one guy who is fighting up front.

[EatYerGreens]

also ranged unit can only fire if they have line of sight to target so if u place archers in the forest only the ones who can "see" the enemy through the trees will fire although the whole unit will cycle through the annimation.

In one battle I tried to get my one unit of archers to fire lengthwise through the thin line of trees I was lurking in (archers at right angle to the line of trees, so some were in trees and some in the open) and, on that occasion, I saw that only part of the unit was animating the firing action.

I doubt this was a range issue. The target I'd selected were also in trees at the time and this seems to have been doubly disadvantageous. Target hard to sight and arrows clatter into the branches before reaching the required spot.

I can understand the factor whereby trees give targeted units protection against missiles fired from some distance away (particularly high, curved trajectory, like conventional archers and longbows) but archery skill was originally developed for hunting purposes and you would think that ability to fire accurately when amongst trees should be second nature (hunting deer, boar etc). Perhaps it is achievable (in the game) but only at very short range - like 50 yards - and clear line of sight is still essential.

[Geezer57]

While not exactly a "terrain" bonus/penalty, don't forget about the overcrowding "squeeze" penalty, where overcrowded units fight at half-effect (IIRC). It's ususally associated with bridge battles or gateway fights, but can occur in an open field environment when, for instance, you send too many units to attack a single high-value target (i.e., Jedi General).

It's one reason why I seldom send more than two units to attack a General (unless the excess are missle troops), and almost never send more than one unit at at time to attack across a bridge or into a gateway. And on bridge/gate attacks, I reset that unit's frontage to match the width of the feature - I don't want my unit fighting poorly due to "squeezing" a 20-man wide by 3-man deep Huscarle formation onto that 7-man wide bridge. It's especially applicable to spear/pike type units, but all types can benefit from you paying attention to details like this one.

[bretwalda]

(...)

I can understand the factor whereby trees give targeted units protection against missiles fired from some distance away (particularly high, curved trajectory, like conventional archers and longbows) but archery skill was originally developed for hunting purposes and you would think that ability to fire accurately when amongst trees should be second nature (hunting deer, boar etc). Perhaps it is achievable (in the game) but only at very short range - like 50 yards - and clear line of sight is still essential.

Actually I think war archery is another cup of tea as poaching. In battle the archer unit was shooting at an area - not at certain people. They could target units but not people. That explains why it is hard to shoot between trees.

[EatYerGreens]

Hi bretwalda,

yes, I've used the 'area target' argument myself (to someone who had modded their archers to have increased range AND accuracy due to disappointing performance in rain, making them 'too lethal' in the dry) to explain why anything beyond 'target archery' range (say 100 yards) is basically a case of 'shoot it and hope'.

By that same argument, at anything under 100 yards, if they can hit the bullseye on a static target, then they can pick off individual men.

Hmm, gives me an idea for a modding experiment. Specialist archers with very limited range but very high accuracy. (Mind you, default skirmish behaviour will likely make them run away before they ever shoot, like those infernal javelin units).

[Knight Templar]

Thanks for your answers. I put some changes in my original post.
Does anyone know what's the difference between arid/lush/temperate terrain; if any units (besides desert units) receive bonus/penalty when fighting there ?

[Geezer57]

Thanks for your answers. I put some changes in my original post.
Does anyone know what's the difference between arid/lush/temperate terrain; if any units (besides desert units) receive bonus/penalty when fighting there ?
IIRC lush and temperate terrain are treated the same for combat purposes - lush terrain obviously has more forested areas than temperate, so would benefit sword/axe equipped infantry fighting there against cavalry or (to a lesser extent) spear type troops. And the extra foliage would hinder most missle troops, if the targets were hiding there.

[bretwalda]

IIRC lush and temperate terrain are treated the same for combat purposes - lush terrain obviously has more forested areas than temperate, so would benefit sword/axe equipped infantry fighting there against cavalry or (to a lesser extent) spear type troops. And the extra foliage would hinder most missle troops, if the targets were hiding there.

Also, the more to the north the province is, the worse weather you can expect. More rain and adverse conditions and usually even the second battle in the year will be winter if fought in North Europe.

[Procrustes]

I thought of another one - there is a moral penalty (or is it an attack bonus?) when a concealed unit attacks. It only lasts for a few moments.

Also, do you want to include the moral penalties for being flanked?

And there are penalties for taking fire - gunfire has bigger penalties.

There is a big moral penalty if your general routes. There is a moral bonus when your (non-routing) general is nearby. Lesser units get moral penalties when there non-general bretheren route, too.

Sorry I don't have the numbers to put around these right now - I'll try to look them up later.