Anyone else tired of chasing unkillable family members?

[SpencerH]

It's become a standing joke in my campaign (but I'm not laughing).

Goths invade. Goth army is massacred by city defenders. Goth family member runs at beginning of mass rout and cannot be caught by any pursuing unit.

Two annoyances to interject at this point:

1) Pursuing units should be faster than the pursued rabble.
2) Why do my pursuing units continue to stop and have a 'senior moment' just prior to actually catching the pursued rabble? Sometimes they continue on and sometimes they just stop.

To continue

Goth family member ends up retreated to a point 1000mi from home (across my empire) but when attacked by me next turn his guard unit is regenerated. Despite being surrounded by masses of my cav/inf, he fights his way clear and once clear of my troops he cannot be caught and so escapes to regenerate again.

Repeat ad infinitum.

An occasional escape when surrounded would be OK but this is ridiculous. At least if I had the chance to chase them down it would be better.

[Dorkus]

You need to surround him with high attack units or anti-cav units. Or have a light cav unit to pursue after they rout (every gen unit in the game is medium or heavy cav)

If rtw is true to mtw, generals receive extra for every star (in addition to the base level of... 4?) Faction leaders and heirs also receive extra hp. Combine that with extreme defense, and you can see why it is hard to kill them.

[ShadesPanther]

Ah The Jedi Byzantine Generals of MTW......


Basically surround them with your best units. Also light cav pursuing also kills them very quickly

[Cid]

Think that I remember a line from an old epic poem about the Viking invasion of Britain, where King Alfred ("the oft defeated King") said to the Viking chief "We have more heart to run away than you have to chase us" or words to that effect. I know that I'd be setting world records all over the place if I were being chased by some maniac with an axe.

[HoreTore]

Always try to charge his unit on the side where the general is located. Then you will benefit from the charge attack when attacking him, and he will be a lot more likely to die. While he usually is on the right side of the unit, he can get shifted around due to unit movement/fighting.

Once the family member is dead, you don't have to care about his bodyguard.

There is usually no point in trying to shoot him down, as he will 99% of the time the last one to die from missile fire.

[Dorkus]

There is usually no point in trying to shoot him down, as he will 99% of the time the last one to die from missile fire.

Err, yes there is. He will be the last one to die because he has 3, 4, 5, or even 6 times as many hitpoints. But you'll whittle down his hp with the missile fire. I remember a CA dev stating that, in theory, you could kill a general with one hail of arrows (since multiple arrows can hit a single target).

[SpencerH]

Yes it is reminiscent of those unkillable kings and daimyo's. These guys are more numerous though.

Let's be clear. In one of these attacks I surrounded 1 x 22 man family member and bodyguard unit with 4 x 54 man noble cavs and simultaneously charged from different directions. 4 enemy still escaped the melee! Once outside of the melee they've never been caught and I dont even bother to pursue routed cav anymore. Light cav may be slightly faster than a bodyguard, but they're not fast enough unless they are a part of the melee (and sometimes not even then thanks to their senior moments).

[SpencerH]

Think that I remember a line from an old epic poem about the Viking invasion of Britain, where King Alfred ("the oft defeated King") said to the Viking chief "We have more heart to run away than you have to chase us" or words to that effect.

Thats more a comment about commitment than physiology.


I know that I'd be setting world records all over the place if I were being chased by some maniac with an axe.

I've seen that argument many times. If you were the axe wielder in the thick of battle you'd be pretty excited about the fact that your opponent has turned his back to you and has given you a good opportunity to hack the heathen down. ~D Unfortunately, the pursuers will also get the benefit of an adrenaline rush.

Pursuers can see their target in front of them and get immediate feedback as they close with their target and they can take more efficient routes to reach their target.

[HoreTore]

You could try having a unit of light cavalry behind the melee charging the routers....has worked a couple of times for me.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Unfortunately the AI has the same problem with YOUR family members, when you send them out on suicide attacks. They just don't die. :furious3:

[ChaosLord]

I often kill family members before they can retreat, but even when I don't its not that big of an issue. Once they flee the battle and retreat on the battlemap just attack them with another force, losing/fleeing that battle will make them disperse because they have no movement left to run with. All you need is a decent force of cavalry or a general with forced march to catch them.

[Sleepy]

I've never had any major problems chasing down fleeing generals. You do need fast cavalry to generally succeed, though as a units speed is dependant on how tired it is a fresh heavy cav unit may succesfully chase down an exhausted general though don't bet on it. Depending on where the border is the pursuer can be behind your lines before being tasked to cut down the fleeing general.

Another tactic I've used is to task an assassin to eliminate the loser, cos with reduced bodyguards and few troops they are much easier to kill. You do need a bit of luck to have your assasin in range after the battle though.

Some cav is prone to annoying manoevers just as they get into range. Barbarian cav in RTW 1.2 was prone to funny wheels and turns often letting the enemy escape. In BI Sarmatian Auxillia seems prone to stopping when it gets close. I've generally had no problems though with [mercenary] equites or Foedereti (sp) Cav.

[Celt Centurion]

I've never had any major problems chasing down fleeing generals. You do need fast cavalry to generally succeed, though as a units speed is dependant on how tired it is a fresh heavy cav unit may succesfully chase down an exhausted general though don't bet on it. Depending on where the border is the pursuer can be behind your lines before being tasked to cut down the fleeing general.

Another tactic I've used is to task an assassin to eliminate the loser, cos with reduced bodyguards and few troops they are much easier to kill. You do need a bit of luck to have your assasin in range after the battle though.

Some cav is prone to annoying manoevers just as they get into range. Barbarian cav in RTW 1.2 was prone to funny wheels and turns often letting the enemy escape. In BI Sarmatian Auxillia seems prone to stopping when it gets close. I've generally had no problems though with [mercenary] equites or Foedereti (sp) Cav.
If the General you want to kill is with a whole army, Killing him takes a lot of luck.

If, on the other hand, that General and his bodyguard are out by themselves, I like to go after them with about 6 units of cavalry. As with other groups, I have 1/3 of my army "march" at the General at a walk. The other 2/3, I send to the 2 and 10 o'clock positions. When everybody is basically surrounding him at a distance, I double click everybody onto the General, and he gets hit from 3 sides simultaneously. One of you wisely said to try to attack the side of the formation that the General is on. I agree and try to do that as well. Hitting him from 3 sides turns the odds of hitting him in your favor no matter which side he's on.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Horatius]

I try to get the enemy general surrounded.

Usually I send a sally force towards the general of all cavalry, so if I catch the unit alone with the rest of the enemy army fighting the enemy general will fall.

My problem with killing the general though comes mainly from infantry charging my cavalry.

Naturally though if you face off with the enemy general at the end he will get away regardless.

He is fresh while your units are winded-exhausted.

[napoleon526]

This is one of the most annoying aspects of BI. Often times i'll have wiped out a whole horde except for 4 or 5 generals. Then they'll sneak off into the interior of my country where my provinces are garrisoned by only a few units of peasants. They'll besiege a city with only a couple hundred horsemen, and my garrison of peasants won't be able to deal with them. If I manage to put together a relief force and defeat the "horde" then at least a few of the leaders will sneak away. Their bodyguards will regenerate and the fun will begin again. There should be a way of changing things around so that if a certain faction's horde falls below a certain size, they become rebels.

[napoleon526]

And God help you if they have a trait like "In the pink" which makes them even harder to kill.

[Prodigal]

I appreciate this has been mentioned in another post, but what about when they don't run away? I've just played 3 battles this morning against a 1 star gen. with 5 men (he started with 22), he has managed to kill in total 800 of my troops, & route all 3 armies...Now historical points aside, personally I think a ratio of 100:1 should pretty much ensure success shouldn't it? Or do I need to make an elite stack to specifically hunt them down...

[Red Harvest]

You could put body guards on a heavier horse skeleton--that would make them catchable. In RTW 1.3 "generals horse" uses the medium horse skeleton, which is the 2nd fastest of 4. If you put them on a cataphract skeleton you should find them much less fleet of foot.

[PseRamesses]

It's become a standing joke in my campaign (but I'm not laughing).
Goth family member ends up retreated to a point 1000mi from home (across my empire) but when attacked by me next turn his guard unit is regenerated. Despite being surrounded by masses of my cav/inf, he fights his way clear and once clear of my troops he cannot be caught and so escapes to regenerate again.
Repeat ad infinitum.
An occasional escape when surrounded would be OK but this is ridiculous. At least if I had the chance to chase them down it would be better.

Spencer,
I dare say that I´ve no experience like yours so either I´m lucky and you´re not or you´re not doing it right. Taking out a general with a 95% success rate demands a combo of units like this:

1 General
2 Spear infantry
4-6 archers
4 light cavalry

Put your spears on hold formation and intice the enemy with firing flaming arrows with cav held back in a single line. When he charges your line and your inf pinns him swiftly manouvre your cav to 9, 11, 1 and 3 o´clock and ram into him from all sides. I even let my general charge him through my own lines at 6 o´clock (which I never do at any other occasion due to penalty). If he succeeds to break off your light cav will cut him down while routing since he´s a heavy cav unit. The only time one escaped me was when he was located at the edge of the map. This works very well and is worth the upkeep for this special ops combo of units. Good luck! ~:cheers:

[GFX707]

Always try to charge his unit on the side where the general is located. Then you will benefit from the charge attack when attacking him, and he will be a lot more likely to die. While he usually is on the right side of the unit, he can get shifted around due to unit movement/fighting.

That's a pretty good idea but I am sure he is actually on the left side of the unit and not the right....

[SpencerH]

Spencer,
I dare say that I´ve no experience like yours so either I´m lucky and you´re not or you´re not doing it right. Taking out a general with a 95% success rate demands a combo of units like this:

1 General
2 Spear infantry
4-6 archers
4 light cavalry

Put your spears on hold formation and intice the enemy with firing flaming arrows with cav held back in a single line. When he charges your line and your inf pinns him swiftly manouvre your cav to 9, 11, 1 and 3 o´clock and ram into him from all sides. I even let my general charge him through my own lines at 6 o´clock (which I never do at any other occasion due to penalty). If he succeeds to break off your light cav will cut him down while routing since he´s a heavy cav unit. The only time one escaped me was when he was located at the edge of the map. This works very well and is worth the upkeep for this special ops combo of units. Good luck! ~:cheers:

I've certainly used forces with a similar unit mix to that since it's what I use for all my armies. I note two differences though. In these particular 'battles' I've never had the horde general unit attack my spears (which is more common in a 'real' battle). In some battles I have whittled his lone unit down to half size with archers (while he just sat there) then charged with cav while in others I've surrounded and charged with massed cav. The second difference is that my cav were mostly heavy.

I've had no problems killing generals in battle and I dont mind a few generals escaping but this particular situation was bizarre (and yes it took place next to the map edge everytime ~ 10-15 battles).

[TinCow]

There should be a way of changing things around so that if a certain faction's horde falls below a certain size, they become rebels.

I agree. I think horded factions should be eliminated if all of their 'horde' units are destroyed. How you can you have a faction without any people?

[Darius]

To be honest I've never had this problem, either the horde is entirely demolished or there are so few left that they simply DO go rebel. Now if this WERE a problem I was experiencing, this is how I would go about it. Seeing as the reason it would be hard to kill a vastly experienced (high valor) unit in combat is because of the defence skill and naturally the attack bonus they get. So to make that little advantage null and void I simply keep him from using it. The answer would be missile cav. They are almost always fast moving, their missile fire makes any defense value that would be achieved from a defensive skill rating non-existent, and so long as they are firing from the flank or the rear, no shiled bonus either ( Not sure if any general cav get shields atm) making it so that all he has left is armor to protect him and any extra HP he may have. But no matter how fast he runs, the missile cav will be faster, and all you have to do is tell them all to fire on him with skirmish mode on when he tries to fight, and to tell them to charge in for the kill with skirmish mode off, but with fire at will still on so that they continue to fire at him as he flees.

[Ziaelas]

Try to surround the general, then, you're knocking off his hp before he routs, then as he tries to push past your men, he SHOULD get stabbed.

[Somebody Else]

Let them take a town.

Once they've done this, run down any family members outside of the town - the aim being to corral the faction's entire ruling family in the town.

Then slaughter them when they have nowhere to run.