Scottish Mod doesn\'t work

[Andersson]

I've been attempting to create a mod where I can play as the Scottish. I've read some of the tips on new faction creation and, as far as I can tell, this is entirely possible.

Trouble is, I can't get it to work. I've been using FN_BURGUNDIAN as my base faction ID. As I'm aware, the only way to create a new faction is to use an existing ID, and change things like which provinces are owned, titles etc.

I've activated the faction, given them a treasury, some new titles, the usual stuff - but it won't work. Is there anything I'm missing? I have replaced any mention of the Burgundians with the Scottish in the names.txt file - should I be leaving this alone?

I'm hoping to get this working, then create mods for the Irish and Swedish. Also, I have plans (or perhaps misguided ambitions) to eventually include Iceland, somewhere in the Atlantic.

Any help greatly appreciated.

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"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[spmetla]

Yeah, I was the guy with the Scot mod attempt where I tryed to change all of the Free01 things to Scots. But I was trying to add a competely new faction. THe way your trying it was Wellingtons way and you need to keep the Burgundians references as burgundian for that mod.

So just put your backed up files in the Loc/eng back where they where and change the referneces in startpos back to burgundian.

Too bad the only scottish thing about the mod will be the shields, you got to pretend the rest.


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"samishika wa nai shitte irukara saigo wa itsumo hitori to"

"I'm not lonely Because I know I'll be Alone at the end"

email me at: Luftwaffle@mad.scientist.com

[Andersson]

Thanks very much for the help.

So does this mean then that, like you say, the only difference between the 'new' Scottish faction and the old Burgundian one will be the shields and the starting province? Everything else will remain the same? Damn. Oh well, it'll do for now I guess.

Also, am I right, from the stuff I've read, in assuming that the only true way to create a new faction is to somehow edit the hard coded stuff in the .exe file, as suggested by Wellington?

------------------
"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[Andersson]

Thanks very much for the help.

So does this mean then that, like you say, the only difference between the 'new' Scottish faction and the old Burgundian one will be the shields and the starting province? Everything else will remain the same? Damn. Oh well, it'll do for now I guess.

Also, am I right, from the stuff I've read, in assuming that the only true way to create a new faction is to somehow edit the hard coded stuff in the .exe file, as suggested by Wellington?

------------------
"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[giskard]

Well modding the game does present some problems because mod makers such as you and I seemed to have jumped in a direction the game developers didnt plan on.

However looking at the rest of the scripts I still believe some very fine stuff can be created. It doesnt have to be more of the same campaigns either http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Giskard

[Wellington]

Hi Guys,

Don't know where your going wrong, Andersson, on your changes for the Scot's but if it help's here's what I did (about time I documented this, it's been running through my brain for 2 weeks now!!).

I'm playing with a Scot's faction at present which works ok but can look a bit a strange at times, on both the campaign map and in the real time battles, due to the colours associated with the faction I'm using to "represent" the Scot's.

I've represented the Scot's by using the Burgundian faction for them in a copy of the EARLY campaign script - although considering the Russians and Novgorads have such similar colours/shields/flags it would have been better (in retrospect)

to have used either the FN_RUSSIAN or FN_NOVGORAD identifiers to represent the Scot's faction, and replaced either the Russians with the Novgarads, or visa-versa in the other scripts. Anyway, either of these 2 factions have colours associated with them that look far better for a Scot's faction than the Burgundians - they have a bit more blue in them. Note that all faction identifiers in the game (FN_xxxxx) are generally 'meaningless' identifiers - but you must still use the faction id's provided by CA if you wish to play about with "new" factions. You can't (to my knowledge) create really NEW factions because the identifiers don't exist, and if there are hidden identifiers - we don't know what they are!
-
All factions in MTW are identified by 2 colours which (on the real time battlefield) replace the colours you see on the units plates.

At this point in time we can't change the colours associated with any faction (hopefully if will possible in the add-on) so if you use one of the 20 factions to represent your "new" faction, then your new faction will inherit the hard-coded colours of the faction your 'frigging'. Ok, the details!


Adding the Scot's -


What did I do in the EARLY script (or rather a copy of it) -

1) changed a few of the references in the EARLY campaign script to create a viable (money wise) Scot's faction -

- added a GOLD and SILVER mine (SetResources: http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif for ID_SCOTLAND
- added some tradable goods (SetTradableGoods:: FURS WOOD) for ID_SCOTLAND

2) change the owner of Scotland (SetRegionOwner:: ID_SCOTLAND). Previously there was no faction owner for ID_SCOLAND - which serves to default the region to a rebel faction.

3) added a correct title (AddTitle:: ID_SCOTLAND "Title King of Scotland"

...)

4) cant remember if I changed the start leader but I now have (SetStartLeader:: FN_BURGUNDIAN 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0) which seems to work although the Scottish leaders names are French-Like, as are/were the Burgundians. Note that although there is a Scottish names table in the names.txt file it appears to be inaccessable at present (as are the Welsh names) as the relationship between the faction identifiers (FN_BURGUNDIN etc http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif with the nationality names in this file appears to be hard coded. Hence, if you choose the FN_RUSSIAN faction for your Scot's - your leaders will end up with russian names !!! If you choose FN_BURGUNDIAN they have French names ... Oh well, we can't have everything - yet!

5) Ensured the Scot's leader was 'in residence' (PlaceLeader:: ID_SCOTLAND FN_BURGUNDIAN)

6) Added a castle (MakeBuilding::ID_SCOTLAND Castle)

7) Ensured my "new" Scot's faction was playable (SetActiveFaction:: FN_BURGUNDIAN FT_MAJOR)

8) I did'nt change the Scot's behaviour characteristics (SetBehaviour:: FN_BURGUNDIAN CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE) as I was generally playing the Scot's but it may be an idea to make them a bit more aggressive (CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST) or tradable/aggressive (CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST - and perhaps add a port for them in the campaign script) if your adding them as a faction but ar'nt always playing as the Scot's.

9) changed the shield image (SetShieldImage:: FN_BURGUNDIAN "Scots_lge" "Scots_sml"). Note you will have to create these 2 shield images (as well a grey scale one) but more of that later.

10) gave Burgundy to the Germans .... sigh (SetRegionOwner:: ID_BURGUNDY FN_GERMAN_HRE) but the French or perhaps Swiss are equally likely recipients.

11) gave Scotland to the Scot's - obviously! (SetRegionOwner:: ID_SCOTLAND FN_BURGUNDIAN)

12) Gave the Scot's all 6 offices (AddOffice:: FN_BURGUNDIAN royal_palace "Chamberlain of Scotland" .... etc http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. Just changed the Burgundian ones to say "Scotland" instead of "Burgundy"


13) changed the 3 heirs lines and all parameters for the Scot's/Burgundians! ('AddHeir:: FN_BURGUNDIAN 1 13' etc: ) to the same values as the English faction. This was to ensure that when the English heirs arrived in the campaign (with their powerful and elite retainers) the Scot's heirs did also - hence it was a balancing consideration. I also added 1 more unit to the English province bordering the Scot's - again for balancing considerations.

15) reduced the number of units in Scotland (MakeUnit:: ID_SCOTLAND xxxx) to ensure they did'nt stuff the English too quickly. This is a question of balancing with your behaviour setting for the Scot's. As rebels they ar'nt too agressive - as Scot's ... well!)

16) finally (I think) I changed all 3 campaign name parameters in my campaign script copy ('cn_predefined::false' 'cn_title::"Scots Title"' 'cn_short_title::"Scots Title"') and named my new script "Scots.txt".

Note that 'SetTreasury::', 'SetCulture::' and 'SetReligion::' did'nt require changes as the FN_BURGUNDIAN settings were ok (unless you wish to make your Scot's pagans! ... or Muslims - shudder the thought!!).


Be aware that changing the EARLY/HIGH/LATE scripts is not advisable - always make a copy and rename it. If your copy is accurate it will show up in the 'Campaign Selection' menu.


The next changes were to the "Loc\Eng
ames.txt" file, changing all references to "Burgundians" to read "Scots". Straightforward but make sure every name 'table' retains 64 entries - 21 faction names followed by 43 'free' entries

FREE01 to FREE43). I strongly suspect these free entries are merely for future CA add-ons and are not usable at present (if anyone can show otherwise I'll be one happy bunny). There is also a text file "changes.txt" in the same directory that contains the latest/last changes CA made, again just names - can't remember amending this but something to check.


Ok, that was the easy part. The next changes were to a variety of shield/flag files to make the "new" Scot's faction look like Scot's (as opposed to Burgundians) in both strategic campaign and tactical battle modes. I had some assistance by virtue of the fact that a couple of usable Scottish graphics already exist in the game. A small Scot's shield and Scot's generals flag are defined in the Bannockburn battle (look in the directory 'Battle\batinit\Historical Battles\Battle of Bannockburn' for the two files 'Scottish.bif', a small shield, and 'Scottish.lbm', a generals flag).

Before you start modifying shields/flags I would strongly advise you copy/rename the file(s) your changing/replacing first. Obvious, but important - I've had several crashes to desktop because I've deleted or replaced something I felt was not necessary due to the mod's I was attempting .... hhhmmm .... we live and learn.


So, to continue -

17) change the Burgundian shield images that are used in the campaign map to represent that faction. We have 3 BIF images to add/amend in the 'campmap\shields' directory. Two of these images relate to the definitions in the campaign script ("Scots_sml.bif" and "Scots_lge.bif") and are used to represent the shield for the faction in all campaign mode panels displayed in the game. The 'sml' image can be copied from the Scottish image in the Bannockburn folder. The 'lge' image you have to create for yourself - by whatever means. The 'grey' image is used to represent your faction as rebels and can be created by modifying your 'lge' image to a greyscale in whatever graphics program you use.

18) rename and amend the 2 flag images for the FN_BURGUNDIAN faction in the folder 'Battle\flags\". For the Burgundians these are "FLAG1014,TGA" and "FLAG1014.LBM". Either copy or paint {using whatever graphic program you have) new images for these 2 images to represent a Scottish faction. You can copy one image from the Bannockburn folder we mentioned earlier. Note these are the images associated with the battle flag of the factions (in this case Scottish) general in the real time tactical batttle battle mode.

19) Castle flags! You now have to change the flag that is displayable on your castles on the strategic campaign map. All of the faction flags for this are stored in a multi frame .BIF files There are 2 such "castleflag.bif" directories in MTW. The first, in "campmap\castleflags.bif" is a mistake and relates to the Shogun flags. The second, in "campmap\pieces\buildings\castleflags.bif" is a 47K bif file that contains 20 frames - one for each faction - you have to graphically amend the frame pertaining to the faction that you are using for your new Scot's faction (in this example the Burgundians, frame 14). This site has a BIF editor (in the STW download section) that enables you to do this, the FN_BURGUNDIAN frame has to be amended to represent a Scottish flag.

20) You now have to amend the shield images associated with the "elite" units for your faction - if you wish to! The directories 'Battle\FacShield\hires' and 'Battle\FacShield\lores' contain images of various shapes of shields for your factions better units (Ie: the troops that would have carried a Medieval/Chivalric image on their shields). These image shapes are different for each unit represented in the folders and if you wish to be pedantic you can create images for all 10 (12?) units represented in each folder by reimaging the Burgundian shields (in this case) to represent a Scottish shield. I did'nt do that. Why ? Well these shield images for 'elite' units are merely superimposed on the unit models in the battles. These unit models already have shields and shield shapes - no problem - so you can make it easy by replacing all the Burgundian shield images, in both hires/lores folders (for all the units) by a "null superimposed image". You do this by creating shield images that merely have the standard pink colour throughout - hence there is nothing to replace and the "elite" unit models show up, in tactical battle mode, with the default shields attributed to them. It does'nt mattere and it's a lot easier - providing you have a decent image editor.


Have I forgottem anything ? I don't know! That's about all I can remember regarding adding the Scot's faction.

If your still having problems, Andersson, with your modding of Scot's please provide more details regarding exactly where it goes wrong and what happens. We've all had painful experiences modifying the campaign scripts - so welcome to the club! If the above does'nt help I can E-mail you with my copy of my EARLY campaign script (148K) for defining a Scot's faction - it may help. Let me know.


A last word on MTW - if your having problems with modding, in that something does'nt happen or show up as you would expect, take a look in the file "errors.txt" in the root directory. When I'm modding I always check this file (which list's errors, sometimes in an esoteric manner, that may help to point you to the problem). Some error messages are rather cryptic, others make sense. Not all errors are written to this file, and if you crash to desktop you can be sure you'll find no help here, but it's something that's worth constantly checking. I ALWAYS delte the contents of this file (not the file itself of course) when I'm starting MTW after making mod's.

Regards and have fun!

(BTW: I was going to document this a week ago but never got round to it -

thanks for the opportunity!!!)

[Andersson]

Great stuff. Thanks Wellington.

I think where I went wrong was that I created a couple of entirely new sections in Early.txt for the Scottish (eg. the titles bit I think I screwed up) instead of making sure I just replaced the Burgundian stuff with my Scottish stuff, keeping the FN_BURGUNDIAN ID.

I would love a copy of your Scots campaign if that's ok. Would like to see exactly where I went wrong, and I'd also like to see how it plays!

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"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[Don Megel]

Yes! Me too, I'm Scottish and would love a copy of your Scotts campain. I dont have the time to make one my self but would love to play as them.

donmegelico@juno.com

Thank you!

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Praise the Lord for He is mighty and great!

[Babar]

Yes, please upload it.

[Wellington]

Ok,

I'm collecting all the files I amended (together with all the Shield/Flag ones), including the ones I forgot I'd changed/created and did'nt mention in the write up above. When I'm sure everythings been collected I'll knock up a Readme for instructions, zip it all and upload it to the Org. Probably have it ready by tomorrow, but I'll post again to this thread when it's available for download.

Note that it may need a bit more balancing (I only did it to amuse myself - but it's certainly playable) and some of the Scot's shields/flag's arn't the best images but at least you'll have the instructions to amend it to your own personal preferences if desired.

[Andersson]

Well I've tweaked my Scots campaign and it seems to be working now. Created some new flags which look good, but my Scotland_sml.bif shield seems to have an extra line of colour on the right hand side, making it look slightly wonky (that's a technical term). Can't seem to rectify it in the bif editor.

A couple of Qs tho:

1. Is there any way to change the colours that represent the factions on the campaign map? Scotland are light blue and... well, it just ain't right http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

2. Any way to change the colours of the units, and their shields, on the campaign map?

I have read some posts, and it seems very unlikely that either of these are possible, but I'd like to hear if anyone has any theories on this.

I guess a lot of this stuff is hard coded, presumably so that CA can release add ons.

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"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[Wellington]

Quote Originally posted by Andersson:
Well I've tweaked my Scots campaign and it seems to be working now. Created some new flags which look good, but my Scotland_sml.bif shield seems to have an extra line of colour on the right hand side, making it look slightly wonky (that's a technical term). Can't seem to rectify it in the bif editor.[/QUOTE]

Be aware that several BIF's contain multiple frames. With the shield images your refering to (NATIONALITY_sml.bif / NATIONALITY_lge.bif) you should be aware of the following -

a) CA only enabled 12 major playable factions in the game - these 12 factions have shield images that contain 2 frames (very similar frames but frame 2 is generally a slightly lighter image than frame 1)

b) The other minor factions only have 1 frame for the same shield images (because CA never intended them to be MAJOR factions - hence you could not 'pick them up' and thus the image to the lighter frame 2)

c) I also have problems in the BIF editor in that when I've changed a multiple frame image I sometimes have many errors, using the Shogun BIF editor (downloadable at this site), when I try to re-edit the same image image in that the frames tend to get all mixed-up and I have numerous error messages. However, I that appears to be only a problem with the BIF editor - the images in the game still appear fine - but it makes it difficult to change the same images for a second or subsequent time.


Quote Originally posted by Andersson:

1. Is there any way to change the colours that represent the factions on the campaign map? Scotland are light blue and... well, it just ain't right http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif [/QUOTE]

True. Many modders would like the ability to changes faction colours, but no-one appears to have cracked this yet. Alternately, use FN_RUSSIAN or FN_NOVGORAD for the Scot's (and amend the EARLY/HIGH/LATE scripts for Russians/Novgorads accordingly). The Russian/Novgorad faction colours are not perfect but they look a bit better than the FN_BURGUNDIANS that you and I are currently using.

Quote Originally posted by Andersson:

2. Any way to change the colours of the units, and their shields, on the campaign map? [/QUOTE]

Units - not yet because their colours are determined by the faction colours for that unit (you can change a bit if your wish to edit and modify 12 frames of 15-20 unit images - per unit! Lord Krazy is doing a lot of this at present so refer to his posts/info if you wish to go down this path. Changing the shield images (ie: if you mean the faction independent image that is superimposed on some units shields) is easy - refer to my post above. If fact, changing ALL shield or flag images is relatively straightforward ... providing you know where to look, have appropiate graphics editors, and possess a modicum of artistic talent.

Quote Originally posted by Andersson:
I have read some posts, and it seems very unlikely that either of these are possible, but I'd like to hear if anyone has any theories on this.

I guess a lot of this stuff is hard coded, presumably so that CA can release add ons.

[/QUOTE]


Very true, and very understandable. What's the point of enabling "everything" for modders if CA wish to produce add-ons in the near future. Good luck to them I say. The've produced the BEST, by far, military simulations for the PC and they are extremely helpful in assisting the TW community (insomuch as they can), and show real commitment to what is after all THEIR PRODUCT! Most modders do it for the fun of it, and the fact that CA staff are willing to assist in this 'hobby/activity' speaks volumes for them.

[Lord Krazy]

Originally posted by Andersson:

I also have problems in the BIF editor in that when I've changed a multiple frame image I sometimes have many errors, using the Shogun BIF editor (downloadable at this site), when I try to re-edit the same image image in that the frames tend to get all mixed-up and I have numerous error messages. However, I that appears to be only a problem with the BIF editor - the images in the game still appear fine - but it makes it difficult to change the same images for a second or subsequent time.
---------------------------------------------
Do you use PSP?
We don't have much of a problem with that.

LK

[Andersson]

Thanks again for the help Wellington.

I completely understand that this is CA's product and that they don't want modders to be able to alter everything. After all, if we made a game and some enterprising modder then created a planned add on before us, I think we'd be pretty upset!

CA are indeed very helpful to us. Although, like you say, it's their game, they seem to want to encourage people to take it in any direction they wish, which is commendable.

BTW, one more Q: what paint program do you recommend using for all the image editing?

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"Will you fight? Or will you run like a coward?"

"Bye!"

[Wellington]

Quote Originally posted by Andersson:
BTW, one more Q: what paint program do you recommend using for all the image editing?
[/QUOTE]

I have several graphics products on my machine at present. Bearing in mind that the TW (Shogun or Medieval) products define a variety of graphics images (BIF's, TGA's, LBM's) I use different products for different cases.

I currently use -

a) Paint shop Pro - for various images (a bit old now but nothing can beat it's interface if you've used it for a while)

b) Ultimate Paint - the best LBM editor I know of (but can be a bit tricky if your not familiar with the interface - Gaskard probably knows more about this product than most other people in this Forum.

c) Microsoft Picture it! Publishing 2001 - great for converting images between formats .. I tend to use it predominately for TGA (Targa) images (and converting GIF's JPEG's to TGA's).

d) The shogun BIF editor - for BIF's (a good basic product that has it's problems but I've yet to find anything else that matches it's editing capabilities for BIF files). Whoever wroote this I would love for them to extend it's capabilities a bit more.

Having said that I'm merely a novice in terms of graphics editing. The people who appear to be well versed in this are Lord Krazy (Will you ever explain your modding secrets re - unit images. I'm still waiting!!!), Giskard (Who is doing a lot of good stuff re maps and provinces - hopefully he'll let us into his secrets also eventually - but he's in a 'trial and error mode' at present from what I can gather) and Barocca (whose knowledge is limitless - BTW Barocca any chance of a new download area for Historical Campaigns mate?)

Either of these 3 guys (and undoubtedly others) are better versed to talk graohics imaging programs than I am.

[Wellington]

Quote Originally posted by Lord Krazy:
Do you use PSP?
We don't have much of a problem with that.
[/QUOTE]

What is PSP? Paint Shop Pro ????

I have a copy of this product (from 1998!) that does'nt appear to have BIF support - but I hav'nt used it in earnest.

I still have W95 and W98 partitions on my PC (alongside my new XP OS) to support many products I've used occasionally for specific needs.

I'm NOT a graphics person,LK, but any advice you can offer would be most welcome.

[Lord Krazy]

wellington wrote,

4) cant remember if I changed the start leader but I now have (SetStartLeader:: FN_BURGUNDIAN 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0) which seems to work although the Scottish leaders names are French-Like, as are/were the Burgundians. Note that although there is a Scottish names table in the names.txt file it appears to be inaccessable at present (as are the Welsh names) as the relationship between the faction identifiers (FN_BURGUNDIN etc with the nationality names in this file appears to be hard coded. Hence, if you choose the FN_RUSSIAN faction for your Scot's - your leaders will end up with russian names !!! If you choose FN_BURGUNDIAN they have French names ... Oh well, we can't have everything - yet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This works for me.

In the names text just change the {translation}

not the [label]

and you can be Jimmy MacGinnty.

look at Italians for example.

forenames
["Vitale"] {"Jimmy"}

surnames
["Machiavelli"] {"MacGinnty"}

---------------------------------------------
Yes paintshop pro

Get bifreader 2.1
it will uncompile and compile .bif to .bmp
frames.

use any bmp editor the better the better.
---------------------------------------------


ps legs later
if you want gust add charg.txt
to weapon2 folder copy from run.txt

and do the same in the actionpage
copy the

run
xx,xx,xxxx,xxxx,xxxx
xx,xx,xxxx,xxxx,xxxx
xx,xx,xxxx,xxxx,xxxx
xx,xx,xxxx,xxxx,xxxx

and paste it in at bottom and call it charge instead.


Lord Krazy.

[Wellington]

Thanks for the info LK. I'm 'playing about' with animations at present - not exacvlty re chaninging imagaes but ensuring I understand all the relationships.

As for the Scottish names - if I follow your suggetion will I also get Scottish names for the French (which appear to use the same table as the Burgundians)?

[Lord Krazy]

Quote Originally posted by Wellington:
Thanks for the info LK. I'm 'playing about' with animations at present - not exacvlty re chaninging imagaes but ensuring I understand all the relationships.

As for the Scottish names - if I follow your suggetion will I also get Scottish names for the French (which appear to use the same table as the Burgundians)?[/QUOTE]

---------------------------------------------

So when you take over france you'll
feel right at home.

I tend to use a nation I can consume or
make rebal u no wat i meen.

LK

[Daniel]

WHERE IS THE MODFOR THE FULLVERSION SCOTS....wordbarf@yahoo.com send it over

[barocca]

Quote Originally posted by Wellington:

- BTW Barocca any chance of a new download area for Historical Campaigns mate?)
[/QUOTE]

give me some historical battle campaigns/scenarios to put on the page and i'll open it
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
it exists already, i just have to open the link
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Wellington]

Barocca,

I've paused on my "Italian Wars" Historical Campaign for 2 reasons -

1) "Historical Campaign" is a misnomer when all AI units, in ever scenario, immediately vacate there carefully alloted positions in my 'painstakingly constructed historically accurate' terrain features and scamper up the nearest hill! Bastards!!!!
2) I'm waiting to see what the patch offers

Without the ability to specify the most basic criteria for AI units I won't be continuing on this path. If the patch does'nt improve this - let's hope the add-on will. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif