How to increase zeal as a Muslim faction?

[miho]

I'm wondering how can you increase zeal in a province if you are playing with a Muslim faction. I know that with a Christian faction you can place inquisitors in a province to increase zeal but how do you do it with for example the Egyptians. I tried with imams and alims but it didn't work. I also tried with building mosques but that didn't work either. Zeal is also important for the muslims because of the jihads so please help.

[bretwalda]

I think ribats (or jihad markers) are increasing the zeal and so does the Great Mosque. This is just observation but seems right...

[Ironside]

It's those guys from the Grand Mosque (Alims? don't have the game on this comp). You cannot rise the zeal above a certain level, that varies from province to province though.
Anyway, it's still enough to give you very big armies/jihad. ~D

[Geezer57]

For Muslim factions, high-piety governors with the "right" V&V's are probably the best (quickest) way to raise zeal, IIRC.

[Knight Templar]

I checked in Gnome editor; only ulamas increase zeal, as much as inquisitors do in Catholic lands.

[Weebeast]

as much as inquisitors do in Christian lands.
I find that really funny. I mean the majority of people become zealots because they're afraid of the fire-craft of inquisitors rather than learning from priests. I think priests should increase zeal aswell.

You know something? What would be nice is some type of inquisitor for the muslims. Yeah it's historically correct as people in middle east do public execution to the not-so-faithful muslims (rapist, adulterer, etc).

[miho]

I think ribats (or jihad markers) are increasing the zeal and so does the Great Mosque. This is just observation but seems right...
It takes a bit to long to build great mosques in a province and so do ribats. Secondly you can only build them in the provinces you own, what about the provinces that your jihad travels through and that aren't yours. Thanks anyway.


What would be nice is some type of inquisitor for the muslims. Yeah it's historically correct as people in middle east do public execution to the not-so-faithful muslims (rapist, adulterer, etc).
I like the idea but there aren't much Muslim factions (only three) and I always wipe out the other two first. It would be cool if Orthodox had something like crusades or jihads.

[Ludens]

I checked in Gnome editor; only ulamas increase zeal, as much as inquisitors do in Catholic lands.
TK is right. Only Imams (for some reason mentioned as ulamas in the production file) increase Muslim zeal, but high-piety governors help as well.

[Ciaran]

What is zeal good for anyways?

[Geezer57]

What is zeal good for anyways?
The primary benefit to high zeal levels for Muslims is the greater number and higher quality of troops that may turn up in your Jihads. And when your Jihad travels through high-zeal provinces to reach its target, you suffer fewer losses of troops from attrition - and may even gain troops, it zeal is high enough. This is also applicable to Crusades.

I'm less certain on this, but believe there is some correlation between zeal and loyalty. There sure seem to be more uprisings in high-zeal provinces in my games when foreign factions (of a different faith) capture them.

This is something you can do yourself - send religious agents to convert the population and raise zeal in provinces controlled by a rival faction of a different faith. Then do anything that causes their Ruler's influence to drop (cut off sea communication, cause a Crusade/Jihad to fail, etc.). The population will often rise up in rebellion, weakening or eliminating the other faction's control of that province.

[Knight Templar]

In Catholic lands, zeal is also important for inquistion; higher the zeal, inquisitor has more chances to succee

[miho]

Is zeal in anyway important to the Orthodox cultures?

[NodachiSam]

Good question. I don't really think it is past great zeal making the populace less loyal.

It would be curious to know if higher zeal also made the populace convert to you faster as I imagine highly zealous people are a little less tolerant and would perhaps persecute and forcibly convert less fortunate outnumbered minorities.

[Ludens]

Is zeal in anyway important to the Orthodox cultures?
No. Zeal's main effects are on crusades/jihads and inquisition, and neither of those is important to the Orthodox.

There is however the loyalty effect: high zeal provinces will dislike low piety governors and low zeal provinces are don't want high piety rulers. I also think, like geezer57 said, that high zeal will make them more likely to revolt against a ruler of a different faith (high zeal Catholic provinces don't like excommunicated rulers either), but I cannot confirm this with certainty. However, obtaining high zeal is almost impossible for an Orthodox ruler, unless you happen to have zealot or related vices. But I have only seen those vices appear in governors of high zeal provinces, so...

[miho]

It would be curious to know if higher zeal also made the populace convert to you faster as I imagine highly zealous people are a little less tolerant and would perhaps persecute and forcibly convert less fortunate outnumbered minorities.
I think it would be the opposite. High zeal Christians would logically convert harder to another religion.

[Bregil the Bowman]

You know something? What would be nice is some type of inquisitor for the muslims. Yeah it's historically correct as people in middle east do public execution to the not-so-faithful muslims (rapist, adulterer, etc).

With respect, I think you misunderstand the nature of Islam and its fundamental difference from Christianity. The medieval Church court is based on a separation of power between the secular and spiritual authorities, which did not and does not exist in the world of Islam.

The Muslim ulama are teachers, not necessarily figures of authority. They would be unable to condemn a powerful general or lord to death. The Pope, on the other hand, was theoretically the Overlord of the Catholic world. Using his authority, an Inquisitor could excommunicate an offender, denying them the protection of the Church, and demand that the secular authorities subject them to punishment, usually death.

While there was bitter conflict between Shia and Sunni (and of course Ismailis or "Hashishin") during this period, there was no central authority to declare what constituted "orthodox Islam" and what constituted "heresy." There were popular revolts against rulers whose behaviour failed to meet the standards their subjects expected, but no equivalent of the Pope and no equivalent of the Inquisition.

Also, no-one can be forced to convert to Islam. Jews and Christians ("People of the Book") lived peacefully under Islamic rule, while the introduction of the Inquisition meant that Jews and non-Catholic Christians faced persecution, forced conversion or death in Catholic countries.

Just as Jihad is different to Crusade, so the function of the ulama is slightly different to that of the Christian clergy. I think this shows how well the game is researched. The nearest you will get to an Islamic inquisition are the Syrian assassins - based on the Ismailis - who can be used to remove "unsuitable" lords and generals.

[miho]

Jews and Christians ("People of the Book") lived peacefully under Islamic rule
Thats not entirely true. Turks who occupied the Balkan region didn't force Islamisation but Christians couldn't live quite peacefully. They had much higher taxes than the muslims and they had to give their firstborn son to the Turks to be trained as profesional soldiers also known as the jannisarys. That was enforced by the state not the Islamic church but you still can't say that Christians and Jews lived peacefully under Islamic rule.

[Bregil the Bowman]

Thats not entirely true. Turks who occupied the Balkan region didn't force Islamisation but Christians couldn't live quite peacefully. They had much higher taxes than the muslims and they had to give their firstborn son to the Turks to be trained as profesional soldiers also known as the jannisarys. That was enforced by the state not the Islamic church but you still can't say that Christians and Jews lived peacefully under Islamic rule.

You have a good point, my friend. I was thinking more of the Arabic cultures that dominated the earlier period.

My point was that the role of the muslim "cleric" is not to enforce conversion or orthodoxy in the same way as the medieval Christian church did. Hence no inquisitors. Also, that the strict teaching of Islam is that Christians and Jews should be allowed to practice their faiths in peace. The game reflects the fact that, in practice, if a large army of muslims has taken up residence :charge: , the people of the province may consider it prudent to convert - voluntarily, of course. Vice-versa when the crusaders arrive :knight: .

[ajaxfetish]

Jews and Christians ("People of the Book") lived peacefully under Islamic rule.

Also remember that even the Arabic world, though this was the rule (and laudably so) there were also exceptions, like the mad sultan Al-Hakim, who persecuted both Jews and Christians.

Ajax

[miho]

Also remember that even the Arabic world, though this was the rule (and laudably so) there were also exceptions, like the mad sultan Al-Hakim, who persecuted both Jews and Christians.

Ajax
Of course there were exceptions but we're talking about Muslim priests not rulers.

[Weebeast]

With respect, I think you misunderstand the nature of Islam and its fundamental difference from Christianity.
The Muslim ulama are teachers, not necessarily figures of authority. They would be unable to condemn a powerful general or lord to death. The Pope, on the other hand, was theoretically the Overlord of the Catholic world.
That's why I said "some type of inquisitor." Back where I grew up, Indonesia, ordinary people were accussed of doing "voodoo" and judged by the fanatics. I didn't mean it to be exactly like inquisitor. Titles do save lives over there. Well, ulamas are good enough I guess. The reason I mentioned this was to make up the lack of strategic agents in the game for the muslims whilst the catholics have inquisitors, princess and assassins.

[Bregil the Bowman]

Yeah, but when the muslims build assassins in Syria, they get the real deal...

[DukeofSerbia]

Imams are only who can raise zeal for muslims, but reaching Grand Mosque is almost impossible...

[Patron]

Do cardinals and orthodox bishops raise zeal?

[miho]

Do cardinals and orthodox bishops raise zeal?
No. Only inquisitors and imams.

[DukeofSerbia]

Inquisitor - Imam - 2%
Grand Inquisitor - 5%