The KKK, anti-catholics ?

[Meneldil]

I just read K, written by Daniel Easterman. Not a great book IMO, but while reading it, a question came to my mind.

In the book, the author attempt to describe what would have happened if the extreme right (with the help of the KKK, of the Aryan Nation and of many other extreme right/fascist groups) seized the power in the US in the 30's. The thing that shocked me is that the Klan was apparently strongly anti catholics. What was the reason for this hate toward other christians ?

[Brutus]

Don't know the reason, but wasn't the Clan against anyone who wasn't WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)? So that would include Catholics besides blacks, Germans, Irish, Scottish, Chinese, etc....

[Gregoshi]

Tread carefully and keep the discussion historical. Thank you.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yes, as has been said I believe they were basically anti-non-WASPs. Like many extreme Protestants, they didn't consider Catholics Christians.

Crazed Rabbit

[Weebeast]

I'm not sure why they hate catholics. It's probably the same reason people hate "infidels." Ireland is a good example. I can't talk much since I'm neither.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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When racisme is in, religion is practically non-issue/cosmetics.

A friend of mine stayed in South Africa for a year, most of that time living with an English Baptist family. They were not violent types but wouldn't regard Baptist Blacks Christian at all, let alone others.
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[Steppe Merc]

I know many Nazis were anti Catholic, though only later do the KKK and the Nazis sort of merge.

The reason the Klan was anti Catholic was because they needed to tap into a fear. After the Civil War, it was blacks taking peoples jobs. Later, when they made a come back, it was foriegners taking peoples jobs. And most foriegners were Catholic (Irish, East European, etc.)

[Kralizec]

Odd thing is that in Nazi Germany the opposite happened. Hitler praised the Catholic church, while protestant churches were often harassed or at best left alone. I think that Hitler wanted to harnass the power of the Catholic church, an well organised body with lots of followers, to his own good.

[nokhor]

one of the reasons the Klan opposed catholics was that the Klan was created during a time of massive immigration into the U.S. from southern and central europe i.e. catholic europe. and it was felt that a predominantly protestant country would be swamped by hordes of catholics who owed allegiance to the pope and not exclusively to the U.S. gov't. The fear was still present when kennedy was elected because a segment of the american population really did think that if he won, he would be a toady for the pope.

[Strike For The South]

The KKK was started after the civil war to "control" the now free black population of the south which right after the civil war substantially outnumbered the white population and with there new right to vote they could theoreticaly take power. The group was made up of white pratostents and they beleive they should run the country keeping the others out

[Alexanderofmacedon]

It worked very well. At one point there was 1 million people in the clan to make sure blacks did not get their vote heard.

It was bad...:hide:

[Kraxis]

Odd thing is that in Nazi Germany the opposite happened. Hitler praised the Catholic church, while protestant churches were often harassed or at best left alone. I think that Hitler wanted to harnass the power of the Catholic church, an well organised body with lots of followers, to his own good.
One reason: The many devout catholics in the south. They were absolutely vital for him. And since he was creating a patricalistic society it would fit their mold well, so a final nudge and they would come over.
The protestants in the north were far less religious, and the general image would be one of "ohh well".

But Hitler had a religious favourite, and not surprisingly it was Islam in its strongest form. He felt it was at almost all levels a perfect fit with his views, he just didn't believe in its religious dogmas (or perhaps he did? What do we really know about that), but also the fact that it contains legal and political areas that christianity has let the secular society deal with. I think he would have given the Talibans a positive nod for their society.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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But Hitler had a religious favourite, and not surprisingly it was Islam in its strongest form. He felt it was at almost all levels a perfect fit with his views, he just didn't believe in its religious dogmas (or perhaps he did? What do we really know about that), but also the fact that it contains legal and political areas that christianity has let the secular society deal with.

Source? ~:confused:
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[Tribesman]

it was felt that a predominantly protestant country would be swamped by hordes of catholics who owed allegiance to the pope and not exclusively to the U.S. gov't.
Isn't it ironic that a group that has its roots in an event where they were not alleiged to the US Gov't worrying about other peoples alleigence to the US Gov't .
I had best leave it at that as this is the Monastery . :bow:

Or should I post a link to one of their sites :hide:

[Kraxis]

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Source? ~:confused:
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Sadly I don't have it, but I read a comment he made that he felt Islam had got it right. So it could be that he actually was a bit more catholic but just admired Islam... But since he was so in love with horoscopes, numerologi and all kinds of other mystic stuff I have always viewed him as a bit of an atheist.

[Franconicus]

Wasn't the KKK also against Jews. I remembere that I once red a rather ~:rolleyes: theory that Adam and Eve were white and that the others (black, Jews, Arabs ...) were not related to them. So god created the whites as human race and the rest was more animal like? (Please note that this is almost exactly the opposit of my few) If my memory is right and that is or was the position of the Klan, it is clear why they had troubles with the church!


Odd thing is that in Nazi Germany the opposite happened. Hitler praised the Catholic church, while protestant churches were often harassed or at best left alone. I think that Hitler wanted to harnass the power of the Catholic church, an well organised body with lots of followers, to his own good.

Strijder, if I remember right Hitler had two reasons to loke the Cathlics more than the Lutherans. First he wanted to create a centralised German church. The Lutherans are very decentralised and he could not use it. I think he had some success with his 'German' catholic church. However, there was also some opposition from the catholics. Didin't some priests have to give up their jobs or even go to KZ?
The other reason was that the catholics had more influence because they were more centralised. So he tried to find an agreement with the pope. They did.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I don't have a source (for the following) either but I remember reading, in my early teens, that quite a number of Muslims in Western USSR were massacred being mistaken as Jews (judging from the...you know ~:rolleyes:). So it sounded surprising to me.

Actually, I heard about some biggish (probably multiple-volume) book examining the religious policies of Hitler/Nazis and concluding (or arguing) that they had constructed their own version of Christianity nowhere else to be found. No source again. ~:mecry:
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[Franconicus]

Well it is clear, you cannot mistreat all Jews and then pray the Jesus, King if the Jews.

[Kraxis]

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I don't have a source (for the following) either but I remember reading, in my early teens, that quite a number of Muslims in Western USSR were massacred being mistaken as Jews (judging from the...you know ~:rolleyes:). So it sounded surprising to me..
Well Hitler never 'educated' his people to recognize muslims from jews, and why should he? Just becasue he admired the religion, he didn't make it some kind of revelation. Those muslims were Russians so... Well that was a bad situation, and they looked jewish to the soldiers. Personally I'm not surprised really.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

one of the reasons the Klan opposed catholics was that the Klan was created during a time of massive immigration into the U.S. from southern and central europe i.e. catholic europe. and it was felt that a predominantly protestant country would be swamped by hordes of catholics who owed allegiance to the pope and not exclusively to the U.S. gov't. The fear was still present when kennedy was elected because a segment of the american population really did think that if he won, he would be a toady for the pope.

The KKK, known for their opposition to "koons, kikes, & katholics" were formed under the aegis of Nathan Bedford Forrest. Aside from being one of the most brilliant cavalry commanders of all time, he was a fully vetted bigot. He truly believed that Blacks were lesser human beings, that the Jews were to be shunned as the killers of Christ, and that Catholics were both apostate and owed their first allegiance to a foreign prelate.

The hordes of Catholics to which you refer really didn't get going until later in the Century. The only "mass" migrations (pardon the pun) at the time were the Irish following the Starvation of '46-48. The huge groups of Italians and Poles were largely 1880-1920.

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, but I always thought their empasises against Catholics came after their first incarnation failed (after the Civil War). I may well be wrong though.

Oh, and I still haven't figured out how's stupider, Nazis or the Klan. Nazis get points for being dumb enough to misunderstand the term Aryan totally, but the Klan gets points for a whole bunch of things.

[QwertyMIDX]

The KKK was started after the civil war to "control" the now free black population of the south which right after the civil war substantially outnumbered the white population and with there new right to vote they could theoreticaly take power. The group was made up of white pratostents and they beleive they should run the country keeping the others out

The black population of the South never outnumbered the white; it was around 30% to 70% at the start of the Civil War. In some black belt regions (in the Deep South) the population of blacks did outnumber whites though.

The KKK was anti-catholic because it was tapping into a deep and long present anti-catholic trend in US culture. Which is not to say they were jumping on an Anti-Catholic band-wagon to garner more support, the KKK outside the South (which is where it was most successful in the 1930's, electing many members or sympathizes to high office) was more anti-Catholic than Anti-Black. The drive to preserve the WASP (or at least the White/Protestant) nature of the US has been a pretty common theme in American history and the KKK was just a particularly unsavory (even among other unsavory examples) example of it. The Know-Nothings were another anti-catholic group who actually started out as a secret society and developed into a political party in the decade before the ACW. In 1854 members of the Know-Nothings stole and destroyed the block of granite contributed by Pope Pius IX for the Washington Monument. A member of the Know-Nothings, Levi Boone, was elected Mayor of Chicago in 1855; he barred all immigrants from city jobs. In the election of 1856 they also managed to get 22% of the popular vote. Suffice to say the anti-Catholicism of the KKK was nothing new, nor was it something restricted to Southern thinking.

[Meneldil]

Okay, another question :

In the book I'm speaking around, Lindbergh (sp?) get elected as the US President (or rather, as the President of The New Republic of America), with the sopport of the extreme right. What were his real links with racist/fascists groups ?

[ajaxfetish]

The black population of the South never outnumbered the white; it was around 30% to 70% at the start of the Civil War. In some black belt regions (in the Deep South) the population of blacks did outnumber whites though.

If I understand it correctly, weren't those who had served in the Confederate army or held office in the Confederate government banned from voting following the war, at least originally? If so, even with whites outnumbering the blacks, blacks could potentially dominate the vote, or at least make enough bigoted whites scared that they might.

Ajax

[Afonso I of Portugal]

I think KKK like many other extreme right/fascist/nazi organizations is almost against everything except themselves!!! they simply hate democracy because they don't believe in it!

[The Stranger]

Nevermind...