BI chariot mounted machineguns

[Rodion Romanovich]

This one really disappointed me: weren't historically the carroballistae mule-drawn ballistae rarely ever moved in battle and mostly moved on their carts to and from battles?

I was very disappointed that in BI they turned out to be faster than heavy cavalry, almost with greater ability to manouver than cavalry, and with so many ballistae in total in the unit (because every chariot has one) that they're like machineguns! This makes them almost harder to fight than horse archers! In mp, out of the pure surprise at how effective they were, I got several units shot to pieces before reacting to them properly, and then when I sent cavalry after the mules they turned out to be light horses/chariot mounts rather than slow mule drawn carts, and they outran me while shooting my cavalry to pieces...

The carroballistae should IMO be much slower and be able to fire only while stationary. As it is now, they're almost ridiculous. I haven't experimented yet, but let's say it's mp and you bring 4 cataphracts and 1 carroballista while your enemy brings 5-6 cavalry units. What can he do if you pin with your cataphracts, then send the carroballistae around the enemy flank and shoot them to pieces, then charge in as they're wavering? IMO it's a unit which is both unhistorical and very much overpowered. Any suggestions how one can effectively counter the carroballistae without needing so many units that you get serious shortage of numbers elsewhere on the battlefield?

[The Stranger]

on of BI''s many super units

[Dutch_guy]

focus archers on the ballistae, they die like flies to a good HA, or archer unit.

And if you do it with sya , a sarmatian HA, you can always charge teh SHA in another enemy unit when he has shot all his arrows at the ballistae.

Cavalry , as you said isn't always fast enough, and infantry stands no chance anyway.

So use archer or HA units to destroy them.

:balloon2:

[TB666]

I have no problem with them and even think they aren't very effective so they aren't a super unit
They die so easy so they are no real threat.

[professorspatula]

When I first heard about the unit, I thought it would just be an artillery unit that could be swiftly moved into position by the horses, then stop, fire and move again if need be. However, they behave more like something out of Mad Max. They may be easy to kill with some good archers or mounted archers in cantabrian formation, but otherwise it's just another silly unit.

[Cirith Ungol]

I agree I dont think there so super I countered them easily once I realized them lol. I used 1 horse archer unit and a catoprhact unit both wich were depleted from previous charges an the enemies infantry line.
I do agree they fire way to fast and they are stupid fast but nothing is unstoppable and there is no unit a good strategy cant overcome with ease.
Heck if you take those away the romans wouldnt have a snow balls chance in hell against me lol they need um~D

[the_inquisition]

As already mentioned, they get ripped apart by archer fire themselves. One unit of horse archers will kill them easily, and infantryarchers will tear them apart in just one volley at a greater distance. Skirmishers who hide in deep grass and such are also lethal as one volley will usually take out half.

However; if you only have a bunch of heavy armored, slow infantry ... :surrender:

They gain experience at an insane rate!! But even if they do, I've seen double and triple gold chevroned carrioballistae get slaughtered by small hails of arrows from galloping horse archers before they even had a chance to return fire or turn the chariots around.

I tend to lean towards Tb666's opinion; they aren't a real threat to an well-composed army setup as they can be countered like most other units. Still very nice to have as they gun down any infantry and heavy cavalry that gets near.

[Hurin_Rules]

Yes, they are historically inaccurate. They never fired while moving.

[Red Harvest]

Why in the world did they make them fast moving? Mules were bred for endurance at pulling loads, not speed.

I remember CA saying something about allowing them to fire on the move mainly for "fun", but it seems wrong to combine that with something that moves quickly as well.

Is there anyway to alter either the firing on the move, or the speed? Or are you stuck editing them out of the build queue to address the issue?

[antisocialmunky]

I agree even though I was on the opposite side of the arguement before BI. If they're that fast and that powerful...

[Kraxis]

Is there anyway to alter either the firing on the move, or the speed? Or are you stuck editing them out of the build queue to address the issue?
You can mod the horses to be heavy, that should slow them down to normal cavalry speed.

[Red Harvest]

How many horse skeletons do they have in BI?

Seems like they could have come up with a slower animation to represent a mule--with no charge speed or the same speed for charge and "run" since it is a draft animal meant to handle heavy loads, rather than pulling a light chariot, etc.

EDIT: Looks like RTW 1.3 has 4 horses now:
fs_fast_horse
fs_medium_horse (New!)
fs_horse
fs_cataphract_horse (New!)

Haven't tested relative speeds yet. If BI has the same you might want to try the cataphract instead. It should be the slowest. Hmm...just realized I can do the same for various RTW chariots...did that before in 1.2, but only had the option of 2 horse types to play with.

[Red Harvest]

I've tested the speeds, and the horses are in the expected order. I noticed that the mount file for 1.3 has the scorpion cart listed now (absent in 1.2.) It uses the heavy horse (fs_horse for RTW 1.3) by default, so switching to cataphract horse for that would be logical. That should make it catchable by all cav. Wonder what it would look like if you tried the even slower fs_camel skeleton for it? ~D