View Full Version : Does this ever REALLY bug you?
Alexanderofmacedon
11-01-2005, 23:41
I'm sure my fellow historials feel the same way about this.
In my english class (9th grade) we are studying the Odyssey. Unfortunetly, my teacher does not know the proper knowledge to teach this. She states "facts" that are insane and not true. It annoys me the most, when I know she is not correct. My classmates on the other hand learn everything wrong.
As that were not enough, my History teacher is teaching everything about the Greek/Macedonian and Roman empire with completely incorrect facts. Even the textbook has many mistakes! The book says Hannibal was a major part of the first punic war. It also fails to point out the huns advance to Constantinople before going to Ravenna and Rome.
Sorry, I had to let off some steam. Any of you guys feel the same way?
Watchman
11-01-2005, 23:43
This is the American education system we're talking about, isn't it ?
Alexanderofmacedon
11-01-2005, 23:47
LOL, how'd you know!?!~D
Yes, it is...
Uesugi Kenshin
11-02-2005, 00:01
Yes it does. My classes are pretty good about that sort of thing, and yes still the American education system. My AP History teacher is pretty good about having his mistakes corrected, just today I corrected him on one regarding the Japanese and their technological state when Perry arrived, it was a very minor point though.
I think last year our book got the Punic wars and all that correct, what book are you using?
Alexanderofmacedon
11-02-2005, 00:04
*dramatic music*
If you think the American education system is bad...
...I use the Texas textbook. Yeah, it stinks. I love Texas and all, but I want to move somewhere where the education is excellent!
P.S: The english teacher that doesn't know the Odyssey is really, really, REALLY nice, so don't make fun of her!~D
~:cheers:
TheSilverKnight
11-02-2005, 01:57
*dramatic music*
If you think the American education system is bad...
...I use the Texas textbook. Yeah, it stinks. I love Texas and all, but I want to move somewhere where the education is excellent!
P.S: The english teacher that doesn't know the Odyssey is really, really, REALLY nice, so don't make fun of her!~D
~:cheers:
Is she blonde and buxom? ~D If so, then we can excuse her...~;)
Reverend Joe
11-02-2005, 02:03
This is not the first time I have heard of or seen this. My college survey course on Western History- COLLEGE, mind you- claims that the Greeks were a milestone in the development of language because they were the first to use independent vowels. Yes. I said vowels. ~:mecry:
Strike For The South
11-02-2005, 02:03
*dramatic music*
If you think the American education system is bad...
...I use the Texas textbook. Yeah, it stinks. I love Texas and all, but I want to move somewhere where the education is excellent!
P.S: The english teacher that doesn't know the Odyssey is really, really, REALLY nice, so don't make fun of her!~D
~:cheers:
EH Texas is the best we dont need any of that got-dang book learnin any how. Besisdes everyone knows Alamo Hightes is a strange place inhabbited by strange people and therefore get crappy school:duel: Although yall have a nice pool
AntiochusIII
11-02-2005, 02:05
Is she blonde and buxom? ~D If so, then we can excuse her...~;)Teacher syndrome - are we Japanese here? ~D
The A.P. textbook is good. I'm using US History "Out of Many" A.P. textbook right now, and it gives rather unbiased and detailed view of American history.
The "lower" textbooks, however, simplified history into another boring class of useless facts.
Otherwise, I'm sure I know more about history than my World History teacher last year; much more, I'd say. Strangely enough, I was utterly ignorant of the flows of the United States' history (I know there was a civil war about slavery, something about Custer's defeat by Indians, considerable knowledge in the 20th century of America's role in the world, and I knew about the Revolution, but everything else I did not really know) until I took the A.P. class.
IrishMike
11-02-2005, 02:25
Oh this is all nothing to my experience of being told that the Roman Empire fell in 1020 AD. If that were true, we've all been lied to for a very long time.
Mouzafphaerre
11-02-2005, 03:39
LOL, how'd you know!?!~D
Yes, it is...
.
For a moment I thought you were schooled over here. ~:eek:
.
Uesugi Kenshin
11-02-2005, 04:17
Well many states use the Texas books as Texas and I believe California are the two states that set the standard for what is in the books. In other words the textbook companies make books for Texas and California and then sell them to the rest of the country because it is cheaper than making a new one for each state.
I don't remember the title of our history book, but I know it is different from the Honors History classes' books. We also use a very liberal book by Howard Zinn, and several other less important books. In all we have maybe 5 books, luckily only one is a true textbook.
The Stranger
11-02-2005, 11:51
ahhahaha we got some good books +some good teachers, though sometimes i dont agree with the way he puts it but most of the time hes still correct bu just formulates it differeny...please quote some of her mistakes...i wanna laugh
Speaking as someone who has both been taught and has taught in a Dutch 'middle school' (roughly equivalent to your High School), I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see you learn something at all about Hannibal, the 1st Punic War and the Huns. Never had that nor thaught that. When I was in school, we went from a chapter about Greeks and Romans (combined) straight to skipping the only chapter about the Middle Ages, learning a bit about the Dutch Revolt and and our revolutionary era before coming to the twentieth century, which was the only century we were taught about in my last 3 years. When I taught a few lessons myself to a group of first-years (about 12 years of age) I was suprised to see the books actually included some real facts etc. (actually daring to mention years and persons), but still it got to the sixteenth century by chapter 4.
But then, look at the new dating system the De Rooy-Commission (for the renewal of Historical Education) has introduced for Dutch "High Schools" (Middelbare scholen):
-Time of Hunters and Farmers (Until 3000 BC; Prehistory)
-Time of Greeks and Romans (3000 BC-500 AD; Antiquity)
-Time of Monks and Knights (500-1000; Early Middle Ages)
-Time of Cities and States (1000-1500; High and Late Middle Ages)
-Time of Discoverers and Reformers (1500-1600; Renaissance and 16th Century)
-Time of Regents and Lords (1600-1700; Golden Age and 17th Century)
-Time of Wigs and Revolutions (1700-1800; Age of Enlightenment and 18th Century)
-Time of Citizens and Steam-machines (1800-1900; Industrialisation and 19th Century)
-Time of World Wars (1900-1950; First Half 20th Century)
-Time of Television and Computer (1950-2000; Second Half 20th Century)
And yes, those "Wigs" are actually meant to be those hairy things people put on their heads...~:mecry:
Meneldil
11-02-2005, 12:12
At least you don't have a teacher whose main lesson about the 11th century world is "Okay guys, back then, there were catholic christians in western europe, orthodox christians in eastern europe and muslims in the middle east and in the maghreb. There were also chineses in china, but we don't give a **** about them. Things are a bit hard to understand, so let's just say all these people spent their time fighting eachother. That's it, end of the lesson. Good luck for your exam tomorrow".
Geoffrey S
11-02-2005, 16:30
Education at my school with regards to history was quite good, but focused mainly on political aspects of the past and how they formed the world today. I had stopped with history lessons by the fifth year, but kept up to date with my friends' books and it seemed fairly comprehensive to me. My classics teachers are very knowledgeable, and often have interesting things to point out or books to recommend.
We're probably somewhat biased around here about how good the quality of history taught at school is, but bear in mind it's only supposed to provide a basic foundation for pupils; those that wish to delve deeper should chose it as a university course, where a better standard of education can be expected.
The book says Hannibal was a major part of the first punic war.
The Hannibal? It was a common name (meaning something like favourite of Ba'al) among the Punics, and there were a number of Hannibals involved.
I've gotta say, I can't even remember what my old highschool books said. They were probably full of inaccuracies but I didn't notice since I didn't know better back then. It would be very interesting to get ahold of them and check.
The Hannibal? It was a common name (meaning something like favourite of Ba'al) among the Punics, and there were a number of Hannibals involved.
True enough, but if the book doesn't mention that this Hannibal is different from Hannibal of Cannae fame, then people will assume it is the same man. Very bad indeed. The name might have been common, but Hannibal is one person to most people.
el_slapper
11-02-2005, 17:31
I did have good teachers in France - but the last year I didn't learn anything right. From 1 week to another one, the GDP of Switzerland did vary between 9K$ & 38K$.....
Everywhere you can find people lacking competence, unfortunately ~:mecry:
The Stranger
11-02-2005, 17:43
Speaking as someone who has both been taught and has taught in a Dutch 'middle school' (roughly equivalent to your High School), I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see you learn something at all about Hannibal, the 1st Punic War and the Huns. Never had that nor thaught that. When I was in school, we went from a chapter about Greeks and Romans (combined) straight to skipping the only chapter about the Middle Ages, learning a bit about the Dutch Revolt and and our revolutionary era before coming to the twentieth century, which was the only century we were taught about in my last 3 years. When I taught a few lessons myself to a group of first-years (about 12 years of age) I was suprised to see the books actually included some real facts etc. (actually daring to mention years and persons), but still it got to the sixteenth century by chapter 4.
But then, look at the new dating system the De Rooy-Commission (for the renewal of Historical Education) has introduced for Dutch "High Schools" (Middelbare scholen):
And yes, those "Wigs" are actually meant to be those hairy things people put on their heads...~:mecry:
how old are you and what education did you have (havo, mavo vwo)
i had history about (greeks, romans \not combined\, middle ages, the age of sail, the imperial age, specially american and french revolution and ofourse napoleon, WWI and II, now were going to the period after WWII till the fall of Sovjet Union thats in about 4 seperate chapters
i also had a better view of the greek and roman history in my Greek and Latin class, now i've chosen classic art and just had a test about the greek and roman history again, though this was just a very short thing to see what we still know, after that well pass on to the real beuaty of classic art
how old are you and what education did you have (havo, mavo vwo)
i had history about (greeks, romans \not combined\, middle ages, the age of sail, the imperial age, specially american and french revolution and ofourse napoleon, WWI and II, now were going to the period after WWII till the fall of Sovjet Union thats in about 4 seperate chapters
i also had a better view of the greek and roman history in my Greek and Latin class, now i've chosen classic art and just had a test about the greek and roman history again, though this was just a very short thing to see what we still know, after that well pass on to the real beuaty of classic art
I'm 22 and went to the VWO (I had Latin and Greek in my first 3 years but flunked them so badly by then I had to drop them. In my defense, I was very lazy back then ~D ). I did enjoy history very much but learned more from the books I read myself than in school. We mostly talked through lessons anyway. Of course I may be biased because I'm studying history in university now, but when looking through my history book from 5th grade again I must really say it's most unsatifying. About the things you say, I for example never had anything about Napoleon or the American Revolution in school! ~:eek: And well, most other things (except the First and Second World War) we just skipped after looking into them very briefly...
But I already was under the impression that the curriculum had gotten better by now, and your account seems to prove that. Lucky you!
The Stranger
11-02-2005, 18:18
aahahha, im in fourth grade now...i had romans and greeks middle ages (there was a pharagraph bout religion but we didnt made it till there) on a other school then im on now...in 2nd grade we did american revoution age of sail and imperial age...and greek and romans in greek and latin class, that continued in the third
i also had history bout ww1 and 2 in the 3rd with napoleon, french rev and the ism (communism, capitalism etc) now i'm in fourth we just had wwI (but more bout the politcal aspect then the war) then we go to the "interbellum" after that ww2 and the period after 45 till end of USSR
Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-02-2005, 19:25
Our teacher this year isn't bad, but I'm willing to bet I know more about WW1 than he does. ~;p
Duke Malcolm
11-02-2005, 19:46
My English teacher (as almost all English teachers at my school are) is very knowledgeable. Why, just the other day (and to-day) he was telling us about Karl Marx and Lenin, Henry Ford, the Reverend Thomas Malthus (anyone care to guess which book we are studying?), human nature, tobacco and the industries thereof, law, and other miscellaneous topics...
My history teacher for one year (now retired) was a PhD in the subject... He taught as about Romans -- mainly their army -- vikings, the Wars of Independence (Wallace, Bruce etc.).
My second history teacher taught me of the Union of the Crowns and the '45-'46 Jacobite Rebellion (carefully noting that it was not England versus Scotland, but the government versus the rebels and both were mainly scots), the Highland Clearances and the Industrial Revolution, the slavery in the Americas, the US civil rights movement, The events surrounding the World Wars (Francis Ferdinand, Treay of Versailles, Munich Putsch)
I gave it up after 2nd year...
Steppe Merc
11-02-2005, 20:37
Yup, happens all the time. My idiot Art History teacher said Parthians were Mespotamians. I put her strait, though. ~D
Oh, and my English teacher said that Vikings just raided, never settled anywhere or traded. Which is total BS, of course.
Meneldil
11-02-2005, 20:57
Well, on the other hand, I think the History teachers have a overall a much better knowledge of History than the average student. They just aren't that good with details. They aren't teachers for nothing, and I'm fairly sure they could have a good laugh on a forum too, by quoting some of their students' mistakes.
And frankly, things like wether the vikings settled in britain or not are totally useless for the average student.
Knight Templar
11-02-2005, 22:27
When I was writing city competition from history (about 6 months ago) I found at least 3 of 60 answers (including the one Aragonese conquered Sicily in the 15th century) to be incorrect. Later, when I complained to professors who corrected all tests, they said me that National commission, which had sent them tests, sent them answers as well, and they have to correct tests according to it, and can't do anything about it. (hope this sentence makes sense)
At least you don't have a teacher whose main lesson about the 11th century world is "Okay guys, back then, there were catholic christians in western europe, orthodox christians in eastern europe and muslims in the middle east and in the maghreb. There were also chineses in china, but we don't give a **** about them. Things are a bit hard to understand, so let's just say all these people spent their time fighting eachother. That's it, end of the lesson. Good luck for your exam tomorrow".
~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek:
Alexanderofmacedon
11-02-2005, 23:32
Education at my school with regards to history was quite good, but focused mainly on political aspects of the past and how they formed the world today. I had stopped with history lessons by the fifth year, but kept up to date with my friends' books and it seemed fairly comprehensive to me. My classics teachers are very knowledgeable, and often have interesting things to point out or books to recommend.
We're probably somewhat biased around here about how good the quality of history taught at school is, but bear in mind it's only supposed to provide a basic foundation for pupils; those that wish to delve deeper should chose it as a university course, where a better standard of education can be expected.
The Hannibal? It was a common name (meaning something like favourite of Ba'al) among the Punics, and there were a number of Hannibals involved.
No, I mean Barca...
Carthaginian general of the 2nd punic war.
Alexanderofmacedon
11-02-2005, 23:42
A fifth grade teacher of mine (actually it was a substitute) thought all the characters in Lord of the Rings were real people. Aragon she thought was a real guy and everything...
Thank god she was a sub, that never tought again...
Come to think of it I think I told her "Don't ever teach again."...
im in fourth grade now...
Stranger...are you serious?!? Wow.
My enlglish teacher is REALLY smart actually. She got first place on a nation wide writing essay that would allow her to go to the college of her choice. She had around a 1600 on her SAT. Unfortunetly she married a man who was in the mob, which really wrecked her life. After some odd years she went to the battered womans shelter and was moved to where I live. It's a very sad story. If she would have not married that man, she would not he a teacher right now. She'd be at some high paying job.
She is the nicest teacher I've ever had. To tell you the truth she is not all that unknowledgeable about the Trojan war. She has misplaced Troy and has had a couple facts mixed up, but for the most part she just doesn't know any of the details. Some are harder to tolerate then others, but then again, she is very nice, so it's no big deal...
Alexanderofmacedon
11-02-2005, 23:42
EH Texas is the best we dont need any of that got-dang book learnin any how. Besisdes everyone knows Alamo Hightes is a strange place inhabbited by strange people and therefore get crappy school:duel: Although yall have a nice pool
...
Seamus Fermanagh
11-03-2005, 04:06
My worst was a college prof -- government dept. -- teaching her specialty area Latin American politics/history. She consistently downgraded any essay or answer that suggested that what was going on was not the result of American Imperialism.~:rolleyes:
I once queried her about the influence of the drug cartels on Columbian government (this was in 1985 mind you, and I had just done an extemp cut that day referencing how one of the cartels had tried to buy off the government by offering to pay off the national debt of Columbia -- in cash~:eek: ) but she set me straight. I was told it was of limited importance to affairs in Columbia.:gah2:
Soulforged was more knowledgeable about Latin America at age 6 than this bint was after a 25 year career.
The Stranger
11-03-2005, 12:29
A fifth grade teacher of mine (actually it was a substitute) thought all the characters in Lord of the Rings were real people. Aragon she thought was a real guy and everything...
Thank god she was a sub, that never tought again...
Come to think of it I think I told her "Don't ever teach again."...
Stranger...are you serious?!? Wow.
My enlglish teacher is REALLY smart actually. She got first place on a nation wide writing essay that would allow her to go to the college of her choice. She had around a 1600 on her SAT. Unfortunetly she married a man who was in the mob, which really wrecked her life. After some odd years she went to the battered womans shelter and was moved to where I live. It's a very sad story. If she would have not married that man, she would not he a teacher right now. She'd be at some high paying job.
She is the nicest teacher I've ever had. To tell you the truth she is not all that unknowledgeable about the Trojan war. She has misplaced Troy and has had a couple facts mixed up, but for the most part she just doesn't know any of the details. Some are harder to tolerate then others, but then again, she is very nice, so it's no big deal...
eh im in the dutch fourth grade, i dunno if thats the same as the usa fourth grade.
And Aragon was a real person...it was that guy from Hidalgo, or am i mixing characters now?
The Stranger
11-03-2005, 12:31
oh the guy from hidalgo was Vigo Mortenson (sp)
(AoM, youre in love with your teacher arent you :P)
oh the guy from hidalgo was Vigo Mortenson (sp)
(AoM, youre in love with your teacher arent you :P)
Viggo Mortensen.
And I believe the mention for the teacher is that he did believe Aragorn was real, not Viggo (who obviously IS real).
How old are you? I think that would explain any confusion about you school.
Alexanderofmacedon
11-03-2005, 23:19
How old are you? I think that would explain any confusion about you school.
Yes, that would.
The Stranger
11-04-2005, 10:28
i'm 15 but and im suposed to be in 3rd grade but let me explain
if you become 4 after 1 october you cannot join the schoolyear that started in early september. but most parents just let their child join and then the school makes m redo the schoolyear (for psycological reasons). i on the other hand didnt had to redo the schoolyear but could continue right away. i became 15 on 12 october this year, but im in a class with people that become 16 this year.
So i'm supposed to be in 3rd grade but im in fourth
Narayanese
11-07-2005, 22:00
Yup, happens all the time. My idiot Art History teacher said Parthians were Mespotamians. I put her strait, though. ~D
Hmm, I remember in 7th grade I mentioned the parthians to my history teacher and she seemed never to have heard of them...~:rolleyes:
But at least hannibal got mentioned in the right war (2nd).
One thing I found strange was my history teacher said (in my 12th year in school) bronze tools were only status things and not used, anyone knows anything about this (feels a bit ludicrous) He seemed credible otherwise (hard to check of course, I that was my last history course~:mecry: ).
yesdachi
11-11-2005, 18:32
My High School (and earlier) history classes and were mostly straight out of the book but my college classes were excellent with many slides and additional text references. The instructor stuttered (some found annoying but not me) so he would talk slowly and concisely allowing me to take excellent notes! I got great grades and learned a lot. ~:)
conon394
11-11-2005, 19:02
Narayanese
Hmm, I remember in 7th grade I mentioned the parthians to my history teacher and she seemed never to have heard of them...
But at least hannibal got mentioned in the right war (2nd).
One thing I found strange was my history teacher said (in my 12th year in school) bronze tools were only status things and not used, anyone knows anything about this (feels a bit ludicrous) He seemed credible otherwise (hard to check of course, I that was my last history course
Actually I don’t see the problem that your teacher had not heard of the Parthians. In general I think broad surveys of ancient history at the high school level are doomed to be overly general and not incredibly useful. On the second part I don’t quite get at what you mean when (and where) had the teacher indicated bronze goods were status items (or ceremonial) rather than functional?
My history GCSE consisted solely of the 20th century, mostly Britain and Germany, but with a bit of Abysinnia, Russia and Vietnam thrown in.
Was pretty dull really. Good teacher though. Only have a class of 8 people was useful.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-11-2005, 21:57
Hmm, I remember in 7th grade I mentioned the parthians to my history teacher and she seemed never to have heard of them...~:rolleyes:
My history teacher one year looked puzzled when I mentioned the Hindenberg Line. ~:eek:
Alexanderofmacedon
11-11-2005, 23:32
The whaaa?~;)
One thing I found strange was my history teacher said (in my 12th year in school) bronze tools were only status things and not used, anyone knows anything about this (feels a bit ludicrous) He seemed credible otherwise (hard to check of course, I that was my last history course~:mecry: ).
Bronze was certainly used... Priot to it there was only copper tools, and they were lousy. Bronze could fairly easily restructure stone and such, while copper would just get blunted and bent. Of course it wouldn't have been used, at least initially, for such things as ploughs or similar farming implements.
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