Perfect 16 unit English army

[King Kurt]

I have reached the stage in my current English campaign where I rule every where except Hungary and the Papal States. To provide an challenge I have decided to pull together a single stack army to conquer Hungary.
My inclination for the super stack is as follows 1xRks (my 9 star general), 2x ChKnts, 2 x Mtd Sgts, 1 x HA/LC of some sort, 4 x Longbow, 4 x Bill, 2 x CMAA. I intend to have a seige army - artillery and infantry - following to seige/ assalt any remnants holed up in castles.
What do people think of my mix - any suggestions??~:cheers:

[Vladimir]

8 billmen, 8 longbows?

[Grey_Fox]

Why are you going to use Mounted Sergeants? They have no speed advantage over Chivalric Knights and are significantly inferior in melee.

I'd use 1 RK general (since the royal units generally provide the best generals), 4 Chivalric Knights, two Alan Mercenary cavalry (if you can find them - two Jinetes if you can't), two Pavise Arbalaster/Pavise Crossbows, two Longbows, and five Chivalric Men-At-Arms.

[Vladimir]

What, no spears?

[Knight Templar]

Whartever spears can do, billmen can do it better.

I would use 1 RK as general, 3 longbowmen, 1 pavise arbalester, 4 CMAA, 3 billmen and 4 CK

[Eternal Champion]

I'd either use the best troops you've got or if you are looking for a challenge use the worst you've got. Either way the game is really over.

[BAD]

1 Peasant and 15 Ballista's! xD

[King Kurt]

Thanks for your thoughts. I want to keep an English feel - hence the longbow/ bill mix and I went for the Mtd sargents for pursing routers/ driving off HA/LC etc. The point re speed etc is well made, so I will use Jinettes instead. The question now is the last unit - 1 more ChKnt or 1 more CMAA or a merc HA. I will ponder and let you know tomorrow. The challenge is to see if the one stack can take down the whole faction. I am probably stronger unit for unit, but overall outnumbered.~:cheers:

[Vladimir]

Do you mean one stack per battle? With the decent melee stats of longbow men that shouldn't be a problem and since bills aren't spears, stick 'em all in the trees. ~D

[buujin]

I versitile army which you might find in the competitive multiplayer battles is as follows :

1 Royal knights
4 chivalric knights
4 chivalric men at arms
2 billmen
3 pavise crossbowmen/arbs
2 Longbowmen

[Kekvit Irae]

15 Longbowmen
1 General

Smells like cheese, works like gold

[Vladimir]

Ya but how does it taste? I guess I'm too fond of light cav. Good step horse or Jinettes make me smile.

[asilv]

1 Peasant and 15 Ballista's! xD
Rebel AIs idea of perfect army. ~;)

[Kekvit Irae]

Ya but how does it taste? I guess I'm too fond of light cav. Good step horse or Jinettes make me smile.

In a dense formation, hardly anything gets close enough into melee (they break and run). If something does get in, the general unit is there to mop up

[yesdachi]

Balanced with cultural flavor.
1 RK
3 best Cav you have
2 bills
1 gallowglass (for flavor)
1 clansmen (for flavor)
2 cmaa
4 longbows
2 artillery
:2cents:

[Vladimir]

When playing the English I think Gallos are better than Highlanders. Am I smoking too much crack or does everyone agree?

[yesdachi]

When playing the English I think Gallos are better than Highlanders. Am I smoking too much crack or does everyone agree?
I agree. They are better. Their moral is the same but all other stats are higher.:bow:

[antisocialmunky]

1-2 pavs so your L-Bows survive missile duels.

[ajaxfetish]

My favorite English army makeup is 1 Royal Knight General, 3 Chivalric Knights, 6 Billmen, 6 Longbows. I have two wings hinged at the middle, each with three units of bills and 3 of bows backed up by the cavalry. Love the kill ratios I get with those guys.

Ajax

[m52nickerson]

4 Billmen
2 Pav Arbs
3 cmaa
2 longbow
1 gallowglass or highlands
3 chivalric knights
then the generals unit.

[Kekvit Irae]

Gallowglasses are far superior to Highland Clansmen.
Gallowglasses get 8 for charge bonus, Highlanders get 6.
Gallowglasses get no defense bonus, Highlanders get a -3 penalty.
Gallowglasses get 2 armor, Highlanders get only 1.

This, I guess, is offset by the fact that Highlanders can be built by any Catholic factions with just the first castle (fort, I believe), whereas Gallowglasses require the faction to be English and requires a swordsmith.

[m52nickerson]

This, I guess, is offset by the fact that Highlanders can be built by any Catholic factions with just the first castle (fort, I believe), whereas Gallowglasses require the faction to be English and requires a swordsmith.


Gallowglasses can be build by anyone as well. I have Polish Glowglasses all the time. Highlanders are cheaper to build, plus they are faster then Glowglasses. It makes then better ambush units. If they get discovered and killed they are cheaper to replace.

[Kekvit Irae]

Bah, I misread the file. It seems as if the English get a valor bonus for Gallowglasses, however.

[m52nickerson]

Bah, I misread the file. It seems as if the English get a valor bonus for Gallowglasses, however.

Really? I know that Gallowglasses come with a one valor because you produce them in Ireland, but its not just for the English.

[Ironside]

Bah, I misread the file. It seems as if the English get a valor bonus for Gallowglasses, however.

That's discount, not valour bonus ~;p


Whartever spears can do, billmen can do it better.

They can't stand arrowr fire as good as CS ~;) . Very important if you face a large Golden Horde army. But generally you're correct.

[Ciaran]

Still, I like the solid protection spears give. True, they don´t do much damage, but they´re literally the shield of the army, any units with more fighting power can retreat behind and strike from there where it is most effective.


They can't stand arrowr fire as good as CS . Very important if you face a large Golden Horde army.
Halberdiers can do that even better, those guys are literally walking tin cans and unless the missiles are armor-piercing, they can just stand there and weather it. So, if you´re going for polearms, halberds for the main line and billmen/swiss halberds (if you´re not English) for the flanks. I have yet to try it, but according to Frogs Beginner´s Guide it´s an effective formation for the High era.

[HopAlongBunny]

Nothing but Organ Guns.

Had it happen once~:) The slaughter was spectacular.

Fortunatly the AI had a low valour army and few reinforcements...they were happy to "Run Away!" and I was happy to let them~:cheers:

[Budwise]

What, no spears?

Don't need them. I never use spears when I have Billmen. IMO they own any spear unit in a fight plus against most armies, you have to worry more about armored units than no armored units.

[King Kurt]

So much advice!!

In the end I went for 1x RKt(general's unit 8 star), 2x ChKts, 1x Hobilar, 1 x Jinettes, 3 x CMAA, 4 x longbow, 4 x bills. The boys plunged into Hungary and first up was the King with about 1,000 troops - some royal knights, some light cav and a load of infantry - archers, spears, urban militia. Finally - why does the AI like them so - 2 ballistas! I deployed fighting infantry up front, then missiles with heavy cav at the back with light cav near the wings. The Hungarians deployed to my right and made a half hearted attempt to out flank me while I redeployed my army. I engaged the rear/ right flank of his army with my light cav to slow him down - my Jinettes duffing up a unit of RKts, so he never really got close to outflanking me. As my infantry got close to engaging, the army withdrew into a wood. My infantry plunged in... and found nothing! Some reinforcements looked over a hill :hide: - then they went as well. So I had routed the whole army - but not killed many, lost a handfull of men and most of the army hardly broke sweat! The only thing I can assume is that my battlehardened troops - 8 star leader, high valour troops - scared the pants off the Hungarians. I have mopped up the Hungarian empire - killed the King, captured and ransomed the hier etc. Time to draw a viel over this campaign, I think, load VI - I've had it for 3 months but wanted to finish this campaign - and start something new - either a viking romp or something Eastern I think. Thanks to everybody who has given their thoughts and advice - I will be back when the new campaign kicks off!!~:cheers:

[BAD]

Nice going Kurt. :charge:


Gallowglasses are far superior to Highland Clansmen.
Gallowglasses get 8 for charge bonus, Highlanders get 6.
Gallowglasses get no defense bonus, Highlanders get a -3 penalty.
Gallowglasses get 2 armor, Highlanders get only 1.

This, I guess, is offset by the fact that Highlanders can be built by any Catholic factions with just the first castle (fort, I believe), whereas Gallowglasses require the faction to be English and requires a swordsmith.

IIRC Gallowglasses have an Armour Piercing attack too.

[antisocialmunky]

If you can get Gallowglasses to stay in battle, I've seen their effectiveness up there with JHI and GK. Though... they need to have atleast +3v to keep on the fight meaning they get +3/+3 to A/D with the +6 morale.

[King Kurt]

In my English campaign, I have been producing gallowglasses ever since I could. i particuarly like the speed of them and have found them useful against eastern armies who need a bit of pinning down. Their morale and fighting ability means they can operate indepentantly and I have used them for clearing woods etc. In hindsight, perhaps I should have popped a couple in the perfect stack, but I was looking for a more traditional feel to the army - but out east and in the desert - wouldn't be without them.~:cheers:

[Grey_Fox]

I love Gallowglasses. In my online games in Viking era I usually play as the Irish, with a bunch of Bonnachts, Kerns, some cavalry and gallowglasses.

The Kerns receive a charge, the Bonnachts which are directly behind use their javelins and run in to pin the opponent. My cavalry and Gallowglasses take on any opposing cavalry if they are on the flanks before running in to hit the opponent's infantry from behind.

I always find it comical to see heavily armoured Vikings running from what are effectively angry farmers armed with pitchforks and pointy sticks.

[m52nickerson]

The more you look at Gallowglasses the more you can see that they are a very good unit.

There stats before any bonuses.
Gallowglasses.
Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 0 Armour 2 Morale 0

Now add the valour bonus for Ireland

Charge 8 Attack 6 Defence 1 Armour 2 Morale 2

Plus a master armorer

Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 4 Armour 5 Morale 2

Plus morale for religous building.

Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 4 Armour 2 Morale 8

Towards the end of a game they can become very scary!

[Ciaran]

Don't need them. I never use spears when I have Billmen. IMO they own any spear unit in a fight plus against most armies, you have to worry more about armored units than no armored units.

Right, they´re slightly worse when it comes to receiving a cavalry charge, but apart from that they can do all that spears can do and then something, due to their armor-piercing attack. So, strictly speaking, from High era on, spears are obsolete, swords dito, because polearms - and billmen especially, can do their job, too.

[m52nickerson]

So, strictly speaking, from High era on, spears are obsolete, swords dito, because polearms - and billmen especially, can do their job, too.


I disagree about the swords. Lets look at the stats.

Billmen
Charge 2 Attack 2 Defence 4 Armour 3 Morale 2

vs.

Chivalric men at arms.
Charge 3 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 4 Morale 4

Cmaa have a higher (or equal) attack even if you add in the armour piercing bonus.
Facing armor of 3-4 Billmen only get a +1. Armour 5-6 +2.

So against any units with lower then 5 armour CMAAs will still do better, plus they have a higher morale, and still get a bounus vs spears.

Polearms are best left to Cav and HIGHLY armored units.

[Yoyoma1910]

:beatnik: Ah yez... zee moo-ton ea-ting Brit-eesh.

I have sought about zis very sing four many, many contemplative nights. (:barrel:)

Here iz what I sink you should doo. Wit az close an emoticon az zey have here fer ze sub-jyct...





14 Sherwood foresters. :elf:
1 Single unit knight, left over from a crusade:knight:, who will act as your "general.":captain:
1 Unit of highly poor and oppressed peasants, that the enemy simply cannot help but attack. :hippie:



You might also consider droping a priest :biker: in the province along with the troop for good measure... only think of him as more of a Friar (mmm fried chicken legs), whatever that is.


See what happens, and then maybe write a story about it that people will read for years:book:. Maybe even make a film :director: :indian_chief: starring some dreamy actor who is in the process of balding:elephant: .








Or not.