Making the AI climb the tech tree...

[Dorkus]

I tried to give the AI 500k florins at the start of the game (by setting the Normal treasury setting to 500k florins for all factions -- I've read that the AI always gets the 'normal' treasury amount, so someone correct me if I've mod'd this incorrectly...), but it doens't seem to change its behavior at all. Still horrible stacks of peasants, urban militia, and maybe a few militia sergeants tossed in.

Seems like the ONLY decent units I fight are start of game units.

Is there any way to get the AI to climb the tech tree? Does one of the behavioral settings make the AI more aggressive?

I'm basically trying to make the game harder.... I've mod'd build times to half of what they used to be, but the AI still refuses to build any high tech production facilities.... Should I resort to giving the AI a bunch of high tech units for free at the start of the game???!?

[Dorkus]

Well, I think i've answered part of my own question. I gave myself 400k florins to start in a late period game, and allowed the AI to control my building/unit production....

The AI DOES NOT build anything in more than half the provinces!!!! What the heck is up with that???

I also, for the first time, tried giving an AI faction (turkey) a negative treasury. Lo and behold, he didn't produce anything (so apparently, the settreasury normal value is working correctly). HOWEVER, the AI chooses piss poor units even when higher tech units are available!

He kept building tucoman horse and turcoman foot, DESPITE the fact that far better, higher tech units were available (and with 400k in the treasury, money wasn't a problem).

I would GREATLY appreciate it if someone could help me solve this problem. Is there any way to force the AI into higher efficiency, higher tech production??

[King David]

Try the make unit command for the provinces in the startpos\early,high or late file..

dont remember if its make or build but it will make the province start off with any unit you like..

[Jo_Beare]

Dorkus,
I'm trying to work on the same thing. In the "crusaders_unit_prod11" file, look at the description of "Unit choices (AI)". The unit choce modifiers should look like:

"POVERTY_STRICKEN(191.25), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(85), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(68), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(68), CATHOLIC_TRADER(85), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(85), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(68), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(102), POPE(127.5), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(102), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(127.5), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(102), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(68), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(85), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(85), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(68), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(68), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(34), REBELS(85), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(10.2)"

By tweaking the numbers up and down, you should be able to make the AI build certain units over other units.

JoBeare

[This message has been edited by Jo_Beare (edited 10-30-2002).]

[Dorkus]

Edit: Oops, the below message is in response to King David's message. i posted simultaneously with Jo Beare http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I'd like to avoid that [ie giving free units], if possible...

Anyhoo, I ran some tests on the Turks, and they confirmed my dim view of the strategic AI.

I gave the turks every building possible, and a near unlimited supply of money. Then I watched it build in expert difficulty. Here's what it trained, starting from year 1.

Horse Archer
Ballista
Jihad
Agent
Sipahi of the Porte
Urban Militia
Ghazi Infantry
Janissary Heavy Infantry (FINALLY!)
Turcoman Horse
Futuwaa
Ottoman Inf
Agent
Agent
Mangonel
Ghulam Cavalry
Jihad

Remember, this is with UNLIMITED money, in a LATE period game, and with EVERY unit available.

Does anyone have any idea how to change this?!??! It seems that the AI's build priority is random, which is fine, but why the heck is it building lower tech units such as horse archers when higher tech units are available and money is not a problem??!?

Giving the AI a ton of good units at the start is not the solution, in my mind. They generally end up smashing their good units against each other, and go back to training ballistas and urban militia when their armies are depleted....

[This message has been edited by Dorkus (edited 10-30-2002).]

[Dorkus]

Quote Originally posted by Jo_Beare:
Dorkus,
I'm trying to work on the same thing. In the "crusaders_unit_prod11" file, look at the description of "Unit choices (AI)". The unit choce modifiers should look like:

"POVERTY_STRICKEN(191.25), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(85), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(68), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(68), CATHOLIC_TRADER(85), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(85), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(68), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(102), POPE(127.5), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(102), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(127.5), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(102), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(68), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(85), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(85), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(68), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(68), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(34), REBELS(85), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(10.2)"

By tweaking the numbers up and down, you should be able to make the AI build certain units over other units.

JoBeare

[This message has been edited by Jo_Beare (edited 10-30-2002).][/QUOTE]


Neat. Have you tested any of these out? Is there one in particular that you think should be upped?

Basically, I'm looking to make the AI ONLY choose high tech, high power units when they're available. Highest level cav, highest level spear, highest level sword, etc.

Edit: bleh! I guess that question was inappropriate. I assume the way this works is that the probability that a particular faction will build a particular unit depends on the value in the crusader file for that faction's AI type.

A better question would be: which behavioral setting seems to cause the AI to build the best units (or alternatively, which AI setting requires the fewest changes to make teh AI reasonably logical in its build priorities).


[This message has been edited by Dorkus (edited 10-30-2002).]

[scsscsfanfan]

yeah, i had similar problem as well. I tried to take all the low tech units off the crusaders_unit_prod11, which worked for late periods. I know it's not good, but that's the only thing that I can think of.

[+DOC+]

I think the Ai will be modified with the impending patch to make them choose better quality units when the choice is there.

------------------
=MizuDoc=

[falaffel]

Blast, foiled by a faster poster! I'll get you someday DOC http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif.

/Fal



[This message has been edited by falaffel (edited 10-30-2002).]

[insolent1]

You could rasie the price of peasant units this will stop the ai using the small amounts of cash it has left over to build peasants & UM

[Jaret]

If you set one of these ratings to "0" the AI won´t build the Unit at all ... I used it so the Pope won´t build Shipyards ... and it works http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif . (I hate Pope Fleets blocking my Traderoutes.)

I would set the ratings for Ballista to 0 I belive since those babies are not worth the wood they are made of. Also the income of the AI is of consequence to it´s Unit production strategy !! 400k florin are gone fast if you make -15k per turn http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif . Try to increase the Province income and to change the build rates in the crusaderunit-file !

Haven´t tweaked that one much.

One more thing tho ... I wouldn´t change the settings of the "Close to Supportlimit" row or you risk that the AI spends all its money.

[Jo_Beare]

I was planning on changing one catholic profile(CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER), one muslim profile(MUSLIM_PEACEFUL, and one orthodox profile(ORTHODOX_STAGNANT). Then changing all of the factions to one of the three based on their religion for testing.

The rule of thumb that I would use is: level 5(Fortress) units = 300
level 4(Citadel) units = 250
level 3(Castle) units = 200
level 2(Keep) units = 100
level 1(Fort) units = 50

Hopefully if I procrastinate long enough, CA will come out with a patch that will fix this issue so I can get on with better things.

JoBeare

[Jagger]

I have wondered what those number stand for as well. Take a look at the peasant numbers.


Peasants INFANTRY 50 3 1 0 60 100 3 DISCOURAGED "CATH_PEASANTS(-40), CATH_ZEALOTS(10), ENG_BANDITS(15), ORTH_HERETICS(15), ORTH_PEASANTS(-30), ORTH_ZEALOTS(20), PAG_REBELS(5), PAG_LOYALISTS(1), PAG_PEASANTS(10), PAG_ZEALOTS(1)" PROVENCE "POVERTY_STRICKEN(120), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(4), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(32), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(32), CATHOLIC_TRADER(40), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(40), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(32), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(32), POPE(20), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(32), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(20), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(32), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(32), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(40), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(40), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(32), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(32), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(16), REBELS(40), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(2)" { CASTLE} WEAK -2 ALL_PERIODS YES "HEIGHT( 85 ), RADIUS( 25 ), SCALE( 120 ), PROJECTILE_TYPE( NONE ), SAMURAI( NO ), MARCH_SPEED( 6 ), RUN_SPEED( 10 ), CHARGE_SPEED( 11 ), MIN_TURNSPEED( 2 ), MAX_TURNSPEED( 8 ), TURN_TO_MOTION_SPEED( 8 ), MAX_INMOTION_TURN( 96 ), FORMATION_WIDTH_SPACING( 60 ), FORMATION_LENGTH_SPACING( 60 ), ENGAGEMENT_THRESHOLD( 1500 ), CHARGE_BONUS( 4 ), MELEE_BONUS( -2 ), DEFENCE_BONUS( -4 ), ARMOUR_LEVEL( 1 ), HONOUR_LEVEL( -2 ), AMMO( 0 ), FORMATIONS_PREFERRED_NUM_ROWS( 6 )" NO "own_unit_tooltip1, own_unit_tooltip2, other_unit_tooltip1, other_unit_tooltip2" "PEASANT, YES, YES" "ARAGONESE, BURGUNDIAN, BYZANTINE, DANISH, ENGLISH, FRENCH, GERMAN_HRE, HUNGARIAN, ITALIAN, NOVGOROD, PAPIST, POLISH, RUSSIAN, SICILIAN, SPANISH, SWISS, GOLDEN_HORDE" "Missile, Shocktroop, Spear, Cavalry" "SKIRMISH(1), ADVANCE_PARTY(1),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(2), HOLD_TERRAIN(1), RESERVE(2), REINFORCEMENT(2), ASSAULT(1), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(0), COVER(0)" "CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, PAGAN" 0 UNFORMED NONE YES 1 NO 0 0 SWORD


What is interesting to me is the cath peasant uprising is (-40). Peasant uprisings have lots and lots of peasants. So it seems negative numbers increase the amount of troop type received.

Actually it doesn't make sense. We probably won't understand unless CA tells us.